Non-Drinkers. Please Enlighten me.

Dr. Baltar

Hello Everyone.

I'm 17 and I drink (wait! wait! put that pitchfork down!) roughly about once a month. When I turn 18, chances are, I'll go out to some of the clubs and will probably end up drinking more often.

Now, you may be wondering what I'm doing here. Well, basically, I have a couple of friends who don't drink, and being 16-18 year olds, there's obviously a lot of peer pressure thrown around.
I personally have no problem with somebody not drinking, it's your choice, and a choice I respect.

However, what I have noticed is three things in regards to my own friends and I was hoping that maybe you could help me understand these from a non-drinkers perspective.

1) I feel that some of my friends who don't drink look down on people who do drink. By that, I mean they think that those of us who are underage drinkers have the sole intention to get completely mangled as much as possible - vomit - and boast about it.
However, this is completely untrue, and when I try to explain this and the fact that those of us who drink are just using alcohol to enhance a good time - they scoff. Now, obviously there are idiots out there who drink to get polluted, but from my own experience, they are a minorty.
Why then do my poineer friends do this?

2) Whenever drink is involved in any occasion, my non-drinking friends refuse to take part in it - This I really do not understand. If I were to say "we're going to friend X's house to do something" - they'd be more than happy to come along, but if I said the exact same sentence and added that we would be having a few bottles, they would outright refuse to go.
To be honest, I find this annoying for two reasons. One: I want to prove that we're responsible drinkers and not the mindless alcoholics that they think we are. Two: I always feel guilty dividing the group because some of us want to drink.

3) This is the thing that bothers me the most: I respect the choices my friends have made to not drink. In fact, I would love to understand it more (thus this thread). However, whenever we talk about alcohol and I ask them sincerely "Why don't you drink?" - They immediately view it as an attack and all I get from them is "because I don't want to" - and even when I say "I'm not saying it bad, I just want to understand it" - they still remain defensive.
Sometimes, I get as far as them telling me that it's a horrible habit or something, but those who say that have never drank. Ever.


I want to make this clear: I have this (long) topic with the intention to understand better how my friends see alcohol and people who drink alcohol. I in no way wish to offend anyone.
I've made my points, and I would like to hear from you how you perceive my words. Am I being inconsiderate?

Sorry for the length of all of this. But I am really curious.

LaVidaLoca

(1) Most non-drinkers dont look down on people who drink. However it is hard not to feel a little bit sniffy when somebody is talking ****e/droning on for hours about something uninteresting/Vomiting on themselves/starting arguements for no reason.

Sober, you do feel superior to them, as least in that moment.

As well as this you must understand that most non-drinkers in Ireland are seriously swimming against the stream. We live in a culture in which everybody gets totally polluted on a regular basis. Its not like we're in Italy where most people are sipping 2 glasses of wine with a meal. THE most important part of the culture is getting smashed: So if you dont take part you're likely to be a bit alienated by it all.

(2) This is totally understandable: For a non-drinker occassions that revolve around drink can be really boring. Irish drinkers are often interested in drink only, so a night out can involve sitting at the same table for 5 or 6 hours at a stretch, having conversations that are much less interesting than the ones you have sober. Theres no food, no games, no dancing. Just a long night at the same table. As a non-drinker this can make you irritable, cause you dont have the benefit of the anasthetic that makes it feel like fun.

In my experience, the first 2 or 3 hours is fine, but after that the drinkers start to become boring or downright stupid. One of my mates is like that, fascinating when sober, a tedious monologuist after 2 pints, tellling the same stories again and again, totally oblivious to your boredom.

3) Of course they feel it's an attack: Your very question is kind of pressuring them. It implies that everyone drinks so not drinking is wierd. Wouldn't you feel strange if somebody said to you "Why do you not do cocaine?". You'd feel like saying "Well its not up to me to tell you why I dont, Its up to you to tell me why you do."

Most non drinkers are constantly having to answer that question so they get very tired of it. I even find myself awhispering to the barman "Non Alcholic beer in a pint glass please" so that I dont have to answer the inevitable questions that happen when they notice: "Oh, on the dry eh? whys that?"

Ask yourself if you would be pissed off if everytime you had a pint somebody said "Oh having a pint eh? Why do you drink, tell me, honestly?" You'd be like "Oh **** off!"

But the true answer to all of this is: Go out with your mates on a few messy nights out and stay sober. You'll see exactly what I mean. You'll be like Homer Simpson at the baseball game when he gives up drink: "My God, I had no idea how boring this game was!"

NonDrinkersClub

With regard to 'pitchforks' - we don't carry those! All Drinkers and Non Drinkers are welcome to post here, express their views and opinions and participate in any non-drinking events. We're a friendly bunch

Your friends seem to be happy enough with their choice not to drink. They shouldn't need a reason. They're still young so it's understandable enough. Many people don't drink for personal reasons which they may not want to talk about...family issues, health reasons, etc. Best not to pry, but just to accept their choice.

They're your friends so I'm guessing you have fun hangin' out with them. If they're not up for a night of drinking, maybe suggest something else that's fun for all of you? Don't let drinking be the thing that ends your friendship.

JC 2K3

Several times I've gone to pubs/clubs with my friends and not drank. Yes, you do get the "You're not drinking??? Ah go on!" type of comments, but tbh, they don't bother me in the slightest, and I don't see why they would. I've hung around with groups where there are one or two that don't drink, and I've never seen them constantly hassled about it. The occasional comment at the start of a night maybe, but apart from that, it's not mentioned. I think it's often exaggerated what non drinkers have to put up with. Also, if you don't want questions regarding why you don't drink, why don't you just say, "I don't feel like drinking tonight" as opposed to "I don't drink"?

LaVidaLoca

you're a non-drinker permanantly you get it every time you go down the pub.

So you get a little tired of it.

I'd rather people don't even realise Im not drinking. It means we dont have to have a conversation about it and they wont avoid me as 'the sober guy who's gonna remember everything.'

NonDrinkersClub

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Several times I've gone to pubs/clubs with my friends and not drank. Yes, you do get the "You're not drinking??? Ah go on!" type of comments, but tbh, they don't bother me in the slightest, and I don't see why they would. I've hung around with groups where there are one or two that don't drink, and I've never seen them constantly hassled about it. The occasional comment at the start of a night maybe, but apart from that, it's not mentioned. I think it's often exaggerated what non drinkers have to put up with. Also, if you don't want questions regarding why you don't drink, why don't you just say, "I don't feel like drinking tonight" as opposed to "I don't drink"?

If you say 'I don't feel like drinking tonight' then people will almost definitely ask you why you're not drinking. It also feels a bit like lying if you're a non drinker, but maybe that's just me? If you say 'I don't drink' then people will be less likely to ask questions the next time...not that it stops them. Sometimes being questioned can make you feel like an outsider...that's why it's annoying, especially after a few years of it, not just the occasional non drinking night out.

Earthhorse

Sir Baralot wrote: »

1) I feel that some of my friends who don't drink look down on people who do drink.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Ask them. Could be you're seeing something that isn't there. If you hang around a gym you'll get the feeling they look down on people who don't exercise. If you hang around a book club you'll get the feeling they look down on people who don't read.

Sir Baralot wrote: »

However, this is completely untrue...

Sir Baralot wrote: »

Now, obviously there are idiots out there who drink to get polluted, but from my own experience, they are a minorty.

So it isn't completely untrue! And the behaviour of those few idiots stands out against the reasonable behaviour of the remaining drinkers. In this case it might be your friends' perception that is off but it does not spring from nothing.

Sir Baralot wrote: »

2) Whenever drink is involved in any occasion, my non-drinking friends refuse to take part in it - This I really do not understand. If I were to say "we're going to friend X's house to do something"

If I were to ask you to dinner with 10 people but you knew 2 of them were annoying idiots that pissed you off would you go every time? Or if I were to ask you to come to the rugby match with us, even though you don't like rugby, on the basis that we'd be chatting and having crack too would you come every time?

I find it pretty hard to believe drink isn't a big part of the reason those nights are fun, otherwise you wouldn't be drinking.

Sir Baralot wrote: »

3) This is the thing that bothers me the most: I respect the choices my friends have made to not drink...I ask them sincerely "Why don't you drink?" - They immediately view it as an attack and all I get from them is "because I don't want to" - and even when I say "I'm not saying it bad, I just want to understand it" - they still remain defensive.
Sometimes, I get as far as them telling me that it's a horrible habit or something, but those who say that have never drank. Ever.

Well, I've never smoked and I think it's a disgusting habit. Not saying your friends aren't being judgmental but you don't have to do something to form an opinion on it.

If it's any comfort to you I knew quite a few people at your age that didn't drink and they all pretty much caved after going to college. You'll find as you get older too (though probably not till people have left college a few years) that the non drinkers will be more comfortable with their decision and the drinkers' drinking habits will mature.

Sir Baralot wrote: »

Am I being inconsiderate?

You don't come across as inconsiderate.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Several times I've gone to pubs/clubs with my friends and not drank. Yes, you do get the "You're not drinking??? Ah go on!" type of comments, but tbh, they don't bother me in the slightest, and I don't see why they would. I've hung around with groups where there are one or two that don't drink, and I've never seen them constantly hassled about it. The occasional comment at the start of a night maybe, but apart from that, it's not mentioned. I think it's often exaggerated what non drinkers have to put up with. Also, if you don't want questions regarding why you don't drink, why don't you just say, "I don't feel like drinking tonight" as opposed to "I don't drink"?

No one is constantly hassled about not drinking, at least not after the first ten or twenty times you do it, but it is, like you say, there at the start of every night. No different than being hassled about any habit (or non habit in this case) exept that people find the opportunity to bring it up as often as they go drinking (which in Irish people's case is quite often).

The questions that follow from either of those statements are pretty much identical and, as NDC says, I don't particularly feel like lying to friends or their friends for the sake of convenience.

headlessloon

its good that you want your friends around and you keep inviting them out. but maybe it would be a good idea to vary your plans abit so it doesn't all bottleneck into drinksville. go to the cinema, gigs, etc. so at least theres something for them to do too. or if you're at your mates house watch a dvd and get some food and a whore so its not just sitting around drinking

Dr. Baltar

Thank you very much for all of the replies guys.

Dave!

1) I feel that some of my friends who don't drink look down on people who do drink. By that, I mean they think that those of us who are underage drinkers have the sole intention to get completely mangled as much as possible - vomit - and boast about it.
However, this is completely untrue, and when I try to explain this and the fact that those of us who drink are just using alcohol to enhance a good time - they scoff. Now, obviously there are idiots out there who drink to get polluted, but from my own experience, they are a minorty.
Why then do my poineer friends do this?

Cos they're silly teenagers who like to appear more mature than everyone else

2) Whenever drink is involved in any occasion, my non-drinking friends refuse to take part in it - This I really do not understand. If I were to say "we're going to friend X's house to do something" - they'd be more than happy to come along, but if I said the exact same sentence and added that we would be having a few bottles, they would outright refuse to go.
To be honest, I find this annoying for two reasons. One: I want to prove that we're responsible drinkers and not the mindless alcoholics that they think we are. Two: I always feel guilty dividing the group because some of us want to drink.

Well that's understandable in a way. It's not fun being the only sober person there when everyone else is falling about the place. Do past events indicate that when you're drinking, you're going to get drunk, as is most everyone else? Teenagers probably feel a bit awkward in that situation too.

3) This is the thing that bothers me the most: I respect the choices my friends have made to not drink. In fact, I would love to understand it more (thus this thread). However, whenever we talk about alcohol and I ask them sincerely "Why don't you drink?" - They immediately view it as an attack and all I get from them is "because I don't want to" - and even when I say "I'm not saying it bad, I just want to understand it" - they still remain defensive.
Sometimes, I get as far as them telling me that it's a horrible habit or something, but those who say that have never drank. Ever.

That's a legitimate answer I often just "don't want to" drink. Maybe they don't like the taste. I'd say most of ye don't like the taste, but get past it to get the effects. Maybe your non-drinking friends don't think it's worth it. Maybe they just don't like the effects. Maybe they know their folks will find out about it and reprimand them, but don't want to say that in case they get slagged. Maybe they're just contrary arseholes. I dunno.

ozchick

Maybe they have victims of others drinking habits or seen stuff that has put them right off and hence they seem defensive.

It's a shame when people feel like they have to justify why they don't drink. It's personal choice and should be respected.

(That isn't having a go at anyone in case it sounds like it) I was a non drinker until a couple of years ago and will have a social glass of wine now. Never seen or understood the need to get plastered. Must be an expensive habit too!

apoch632

In regards to 3.

Often the tone in which the "Why don't you drink" question is asked determines the answer.

In my case for example

If someone asks me with genuine curiosity, they will get a genuine answer.

However alot of the time the question is asked in a condescending way. (not saying you do, just that the question is often asked that way) "Is there something wrong with ya, Why wont you drink". That person will often get a smart arse or angry answer from me.

kelle

I stopped drinking in February 2006. I was in the habit of drinking a half bottle of wine every second afternoon, then it was every afternoon, then it was a half bottle of wine with a can of Carlsberg and a Bacardi Breezer. I was on leave of absence from work to stay at home with my two small children and I was bored. I could see where this was leading so I made a decision to stop drinking immediately. Breaking the habit was hard for a few days then I got used to it, now I don't miss it at all.
I don't socialise a lot (got 3 children now!), but when I do I get asked that question:mad:
I was able to use pregnancy then breastfeeding as an excuse for a year and a half, also that I was driving. But I now admit to people why I don't drink and I still get "Ah, go on!" - never mind that I was on the brink of becoming an alcoholic!
I laughed when my sister-in-law was teasing me about not drinking, while at the same time lecturing our 15-year-old nephew about the dangers of drinking! He laughed too.

mozil

I am 17 and I dont drink. I have tried it for a while but realised that the only reason i was was because all my friends were and everyone else i knew to was dinking so it seemed like the natural thing to do. At our age your drinking to get drunk and I dont see why we should be admiring our friends who get off there heads on a regular basis and end up throwing up every where. Getting hammerered is seen as a badge of honour for young people so i just said to myself whats the point.
You said that you were responsibile drinkers well if you were would that not mean accepting the law and waiting till you were 18 before you start drinking.
Before you say it I am not attacking you I am mearly pointing out what many young people who dont drink think about alchol.
Your friends who dont drink might have had bad experiences with alchol in their families thats why they dont drink and what you see as them attacking you when you ask them why they dont drink might accutally be them in a subconcius way being worried about you after having a bad experience in their famalies and not wanting it to happen to you.
So you should count yourself lucky for having friends like this.
I have no problem with anyone enjoying a drink but it as addictive and does destroy lives, families.

redcrew

I don't drink - did once and didn't like the hangover to be honest.

I've been told by friends that they are conscious around me when they are drunk and know that I am not but in reality after a while you will sift out the people who you go out with and where you go to suit yourself i.e. those who don't mind you not drinking and those who like doing what you do will stick with you on nights out.

People can be intimidating when they ask why don't you drink and it can make you feel like there is something wrong with you and I guess those that rise above all that can possibly feel superior to those who clutch to alcohol - not that those who drink clutch but some do.

It's each to their own as to who drinks and who doesn't and in the same way you'd ditch a loud aggressive drinker who's no fun to go out with you are allowed to ditch a boring non drinker who will have an attitude.

I don't drink but find that it allows me to go out more than my drinker friends as i have more energy with no hangover - however it does mean that I'm more likely to go home after a club than looking for a party - unless there's a gang of people I know I'm not going looking for a random party but that's just different strokes for different folks.

Oracle

Interesting thread. Is it just me or is it the case that the interest in whether you're drinking (alcohol) or not is an Irish thing? I've noticed in other countries I've travelled to it might be noticed but people aren't really bothered about what you're drinking.

Bottle_of_Smoke

People who've never drank have a lot of misconceptions about drinkers. They go out & remember the drunken idiots & forget about the ones who just enjoyed themselves responsibly.

Friend of mine is an ex-heroin addict so he doesn't do anything other than smoke cigarettes now. He did previously drink so he comes out with us & doesn't bitch about drinkers as he understands what's actually going on

JC 2K3

Yeah, I find people who've never drank or who've only drank "once and didn't like it" who bitch about people drinking to be really annoying. There's just no way you can understand why someone would drink unless you've done so yourself.

NonDrinkersClub

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Yeah, I find people who've never drank or who've only drank "once and didn't like it" who bitch about people drinking to be really annoying. There's just no way you can understand why someone would drink unless you've done so yourself.

An extreme example here, but say you took pills once and you didn't like them...and say everyone around you did pills all the time at every social event...and they were on a completely different buzz to you...and they did things that annoyed you when they were on pills...and they weren't always up for doing the things that you wanted to do...

You probably wouldn't like the situation and might get a bit frustrated from time to time. I would say that's perfectly normal.

No-one likes to be criticised, so I suppose that's why they annoy you. It doesn't mean that they should start drinking just to 'understand'. If they want to criticise drinking culture from what they have witnessed, experienced, or because of the way it has impacted on their lives, wouldn't you agree that they're allowed?

JC 2K3

NonDrinkersClub wrote: »

An extreme example here, but say you took pills once and you didn't like them...and say everyone around you did pills all the time at every social event...and they were on a completely different buzz to you...and they did things that annoyed you when they were on pills...and they weren't always up for doing the things that you wanted to do...

Then it'd be the exact same as alcohol.... (I don't see why this is an "extreme" example...)

(You're speaking to someone who's pro drugs here )

NonDrinkersClub wrote: »

No-one likes to be criticised, so I suppose that's why they annoy you. It doesn't mean that they should start drinking just to 'understand'. If they want to criticise drinking culture from what they have witnessed, experienced, or because of the way it has impacted on their lives, wouldn't you agree that they're allowed?

Yes and no.

I love weird, experimental music. Yet I'm in a tiny minority and rarely find anyone I can talk to about it and share the experience with. This is because the music is not a part of popular culture. I don't think anyone should be forced to listen to this music, nor do I think that I have the right to condemn their music taste if I haven't listened to what they like (and vice-vera for them). It's the same with not drinking. You don't do something the majority of people do, fair enough. But if you've never been a part of drink culture, I don't think you have the right to criticise it.

RealEstateKing

But if you've never been a part of drink culture, I don't think you have the right to criticise it.

You dont have to be a part of the drink culture for it to puke on your shoes, start a fight with you over nothing, or have to spend 5 hours with it in the pub while it's being alternatively crushingly boring and mawkishly sentimental.

As somebody once said of alcoholism "Alcohol is a game that eventually the whole family gets to play."

You dont have to have touched a drop to see the harm it does people.

NonDrinkersClub

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Then it'd be the exact same as alcohol.... (I don't see why this is an "extreme" example...)

(You're speaking to someone who's pro drugs here )


Yes and no.

I love weird, experimental music. Yet I'm in a tiny minority and rarely find anyone I can talk to about it and share the experience with. This is because the music is not a part of popular culture. I don't think anyone should be forced to listen to this music, nor do I think that I have the right to condemn their music taste if I haven't listened to what they like (and vice-vera for them). It's the same with not drinking. You don't do something the majority of people do, fair enough. But if you've never been a part of drink culture, I don't think you have the right to criticise it.

Music doesn't impact on peoples lives in quite the same way!

Anyways, from my own experience, drugs are something you do when you're in your teens, so I presume you're still quite young seen as you're still super pro-drugs. I myself am neither pro nor anti...but by personal choice I have decided not to damage my brain unnecessarily. If other people want to, I won't stand in their way...but I don't think people like me should be critised for being healthy-conscious.

If non-drinkers want to comment on the behaviour of drinkers who impact negatively on my lifestyle, they are entitled to.

Your opinions will probably change over time. Pill-head phases don't last forever...and you probably don't want to hear it, but they are 'extreme', they are dangerous and just because they make you feel good doesn't mean they're good for you. Pill-heads are guinea pigs. If you're pro pills, do them yourself, don't criticise others for making an informed decision not to do them.

JC 2K3

Drug taking in one's early teens is a bad idea. I'm neither pro nor anti either. When I said pro-drugs I meant pro-people's right to take them without being judged, and that I didn't consider alcohol use to be any more "extreme" than pills. Though I'm not looking for a debate on the relative dangers of drugs here (I do it far too much on AH).

I don't think anyone should start drinking or engaging in any common behavior to understand their peers. But I am a firm believer in "don't knock it til you've tried it" and not tarring everyone who engages in a particular activity with the same brush.

What I'm opposed to is essentially those who've never or rarely drank calling all drinkers "pathetic", "boring", "unable to have fun without drink" or "escaping from themselves".

NonDrinkersClub

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Drug taking in one's early teens is a bad idea. I'm neither pro nor anti either. When I said pro-drugs I meant pro-people's right to take them without being judged, and that I didn't consider alcohol use to be any more "extreme" than pills. Though I'm not looking for a debate on the relative dangers of drugs here (I do it far too much on AH).

I don't think anyone should start drinking or engaging in any common behavior to understand their peers. But I am a firm believer in "don't knock it til you've tried it" and not tarring everyone who engages in a particular activity with the same brush.

What I'm opposed to is essentially those who've never or rarely drank calling all drinkers "pathetic", "boring", "unable to have fun without drink" or "escaping from themselves".

It seems like you have contradicted yourself several times in this reply alone I'm not really up for debating either. All I'll say is that there's no point inputting pressure on people to do things if they don't want to. If a non-drinker has opinions about drunk people, they have to come from somewhere! And in some cases, drinkers can be 'pathetic', 'boring', 'unable to have fun without drink' or 'escaping from themselves'. You don't have to be a non drinker to see that and comment on it. Bitching is however a pointless exercise unless you plan to do something about it.

JC 2K3

I agree completely with your post besides your inference that I've contradicted myself.

NonDrinkersClub

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I agree completely with your post besides your inference that I've contradicted myself.

I'm glad that we agree

Bagheera

I am a drinker but it does bug me that people are judged for NOT drinking. I have never had an issue with a non-drinker judging me. Well one person but she loved getting on her high horse about lots of things

I don't see why people have to explain themselves for not drinking. I know this is not what the original post was about but the OP refers to feeling judged by his non-drinking friends. Recently I wasn't drinking as I decided to drive in and I was asked by one of my friends if I was pregnant!! Sure why else would I not be drinking?!

Oracle

Completely agree Bagheera, that was my point a few posts back. That's the attitude that's more common in Ireland than elsewhere. It's almost as if you have to have an excuse why you're not drinking.

Reganio 2

I had my graduation from 6th year at my school recently and pretty much the same as every other year everybody goes to the pub including the majority of teachers. I went (not drinking) and I said I will have a bottle of coke please to my mate who was getting the drinks went grand as they know I don't drink. But a couple of the lads from the school who I am mates with in school but not much outside were actually shocked I don't I got asked millions of questions all night basically all the same after 20 mins. I really didn't enjoy the night and it kind of put a downer on it.

Anyway sorry for dragging up an old thread, I really just had to get that off my chest .

Whispered

I'm a drinker, but am often the designated driver too and I don't notice any difference in the way people treat me wither way. If you're a non drinker who thinks everyones is having a go about them not drinking, then you must be hanging out with the wrong people TBH. My best friend is almost totally t-total, I've seen her drink once - and that was only one glass. It never ever gets commented on. I think some non drinkers exaggerate.

It seems to be a non-drinker thing to suggest it's mainly irish who question people not drinking, that irish people don't have fun without drink and that irish people go out to get plastered, if you insinuated that about any other culture you'd be accused of racism. I'm 24, I never go out to get plastered, most people my age don't. The people who go out to get plastered are generally 16 - 19, most people mature a bit after that. So again, the non drinkers whos friends go out just to get pissed - you really need some new friends.

My fiances father is a non drinker, I have had a few conversations with him about why and his answers were always very interesting. If he answered with "because I don't want to" I'd be insulted. The comment about people doing cocaine, I don't do it and wont allow it be done in my house. If people ask me why, I will tell them why. It's only conversation, it's incredibly rude to answer a genuine question with "I don't have to explain myself to you"

geminilady

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I had my graduation from 6th year at my school recently and pretty much the same as every other year everybody goes to the pub including the majority of teachers. I went (not drinking) and I said I will have a bottle of coke please to my mate who was getting the drinks went grand as they know I don't drink. But a couple of the lads from the school who I am mates with in school but not much outside were actually shocked I don't I got asked millions of questions all night basically all the same after 20 mins. I really didn't enjoy the night and it kind of put a downer on it.

Anyway sorry for dragging up an old thread, I really just had to get that off my chest .

oh yeah my grad night wasnt that good of success either! my friends took too much drink and were getting sick and were crying but there prob just immature i wouldnt really take it to heart either. You will probably not ever see them again after you leave school. Fair play to you for not breaking under the peer pressure!