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censorship on the politics forum
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You can post on the lisbon treaty and our referendum on it in the lisbon treaty thread.
I think I should be allowed to post new threads to discuss specific aspects of the treaty, thats what this complaint thread is about. I am still campaiging for the ridiculous "one thread for lisbon" rule to be overturned.The video is unrelated to either of those,
Whoa! I can understand your argument that the protest is not related to the irish referendum, although its my view and Im sure many others' view that irish voters should be aware of this and take it into account in their consideration of the treaty, its background, the motives and modus operandi of its creators and what it entails. (I wont post that opinion on the lisbon thread as I've no doubt you would ban me for it)
But - to say that a protest about the treaty is not related to the treaty, ??
:eek:so you won't be posting it on the politics forum again if you're going to angle it at somehow being related to the lisbon treaty.
I am not allowed to post about an EU parliamentary protest about THE LISBON TREATY if I am "going to angle it at somehow being related to THE LISBON TREATY"
This makes no sense whatsoever moriarity. none.
Anyone else think this sounds utterly bizarre??
this is outright censorship, for ridiculous senseless reasons! I hope someone with the power to intervene here will do so.0 -
WTF does the ECB have to do with providing education?
Grants and Subsidies. How many people do you think would be in college right now if not for EU and Irish funded Grants and subsidies? As it is thats the very reason I only have to pay a registration fee each year: my actual tuition fees are paid by the state as helped in part by the ECB. Its made me the intelligent American I am today*.Jessop1 wrote:A certain amount of unrelated discussion has taken place on this thread, I'd appreciate if that could be deleted mods.
No.
Feedback is widely unmoderated on principle. You would have realised this if you had read the charter
I think I should be allowed to post new threads to discuss specific aspects of the treaty, thats what this complaint thread is about. I am still campaiging for the ridiculous "one thread for lisbon" rule to be overturned.
It wasn't a new aspect: it was just introducing a new article of media information. It hardly merited its own branch off. Different Aspects are things like Government and Economy Impact of the Lisbon Treaty. Not Bertie had Tea with your lad and something else happened today. Maybe if you wanted to start a thread asking for everyone's opinion on how much truth are we being told about the treaty... but you didnt. And started swearing by your information as if it was decreed by Lord Xenu himself. And ranting along with your opinion as if it was fact (which is again, right or wrong as it may be at any time, against the Politics charter).this is outright censorship
No, FOX is outright censorhip. this is boards.
*cue rebuttals0 -
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Overheal, seeing as you are now offering opinions on the actual subject of the thread,
Woa woa woa... Lets not use crazy terms like Opinions or anything! I just preach the facts...
- should this video (showing a large number of mep's protesting in the european parliament for refereda on the lisbon treaty) be allowed to be discussed on the politics forum?
If so, what restrictions, if any, do you think should be placed on the discussion of the video and why.
Thanks
Jessop
Well first and foremost, it says a lot about the video youre buffering when the Next Most Relevant youtube video is GIANT SPIDER ATTACKS SPACE SHUTTLE.
Beyond that I think the only thing the video shows is a lot of protestors inside the EU Parliament building screaming for Referendum. None of the information scrolling across the screen can really be verified. Grand, it links you to http://x09.eu where you can sign a petition. However even that is not Relevant to Ireland: you are already holding a referendum. I say 'you' because I have no vote in this matter whatsoever. Hence there is no reason to even soap-box a link to x09 because as an Irish citizen on an Irish website that is completely useless.
The video ultimately seems like a shakey piece of evidence. Note my double meaning of Shakey. It cant really be verified how many or which MEPs were involved in the protest. Hence the only purpose the video serves is as a visual aid.
It still needs to be backed up by lots and lots of references: such as a list of which MEPs were involved in the protest; the transcript (if it were available) of that meeting of EU Parliament; and naturally the body of the Lisbon Treaty itself.
Its just quite difficult to base a whole thread on the strength of that one video. At best it can only be submitted as a video aid with the disclaimer that it represents Anti-Treaty viewpoints.
The only thing that really needs to be said about this video is: some people seem quite vocal about speaking out against the Lisbon Treaty. That is all. After that we have to move on to other source information.Jessop1 wrote:and it clear that you are abusing that principle by deliberately derailing this thread with ongoing completely unrelated discussion.
Wow. You've clearly never met Snyper.
Also:
As nesF says you're making something out of nothing. And again from me if the Mega-Thread is going to Jenga on everyone then maybe it should be split up by aspect (eg. Economy/Social impacts; The Status of the Referendum (and Petitions in other EU states); etc.) but if the discussion does seem to be flying along on the back of a Monorail cat then there may not be a reason to bring a second thread into it. Not having read through the thread I would have no idea if that were true or not.0 -
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Woa woa woa... Lets not use crazy terms like Opinions or anything! I just preach the facts...
yawn.Well first and foremost, it says a lot about the video youre buffering when the Next Most Relevant youtube video is GIANT SPIDER ATTACKS SPACE SHUTTLE.
ho ho ho, attack the messenger, scraping the bottom of the barrel.Beyond that I think the only thing the video shows is a lot of protestors inside the EU Parliament building screaming for Referendum.
the "protesters" included many elected meps and it was in the actual eu parliament chamber itself - as opposed to just the building. You wouldnt be trying to downplay the significane of such a protest would you?Its just quite difficult to base a whole thread on the strength of that one video. At best it can only be submitted as a video aid with the disclaimer that it represents Anti-Treaty viewpoints.
The only thing that really needs to be said about this video is: some people seem quite vocal about speaking out against the Lisbon Treaty. That is all. After that we have to move on to other source information.
Does this mean you would or wouldnt allow others to discuss their opinions on the video in the politics forum?0 -
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1 - why should there be a disclaimer on something that represents anti (or pro for that matter) treaty viewpoints??
2 - They are protesting for a referendum. Explain how that is anti treaty.
We went through the exact same conversation last night jessop1, so I'll just quote the posts from last night to save us both some typing eh?
(all quotes below are from posts made last night which have since been deleted from the lisbon treaty thread for being off topic)This truly does deserve a thread of its own, and I hope to be able to do that soon.. but for now....
Protest in EU Parliament over lisbon treaty
As the vid says, you wont see this on tv.
4 minute vid.Forgetting about the cheesy music and the parts of the onscreen narrative that are in dispute and under discussion, the key thing here is that on 12/12/07, a large number of MEPs protested in the parliament causing a rucus, in the video they are holding large referendum banners which are being confiscated from them, the camera is eventually forced down...mad.MEPs breaking parliament rules is related to the text of the lisbon treaty... how exactly?large numbers of MEPs protesting in the parliament for referenda is highly indicative of the uncertainty around the treaty and highly relevant to the discussion on the treaty. Obvious I would have thought.
Edit: But can you clarify - is this thread just for the discussion of the text of the treaty? If so can you advise where should I post the video?That's an issue between the MEPs and their own governments, not an issue regarding the lisbon treaty itself.
I'd argue that governments not being amenable to referendums of their own has far less to do with what's actually in the lisbon treaty as opposed to what people now think is in the treaty due to the amount of negative press around it for the past few years. In any case, other countries democratic procedures are not at issue here - our decision on the lisbon treaty is. Lets get back on topic, yes?Hardly, since the EU Parliament doesn't have any say in whether countries get a referendum or not. That's a matter entirely for the individual countries. I'm afraid what you have there is a video of a stunt by Eurosceptic MEPs attempting to convince people that it's the EU who determine how member states ratify EU treaties - one of a pair with the infamous "de Rossa amendment".
Pretty childish, really, but I suppose there will always be an audience for that kind of thing.
cordially,
Scofflawfair enough. So to repeat and elucidate my question: where do I post this video if I want to discuss it from a political perspective, in relation to the lisbon treaty and our referendum on it?Yes all those protesting elected representatives are childish. You're not.
Sorry, you cant easily sweep this under the carpet.I don't think I said they were - I said it was a childish stunt, which it is. It's unrelated to the Lisbon Treaty because the EP has no influence on whether there are referendums on the Treaty.
If you know different, say so. Otherwise, you might as well face the fact that the elected representatives in question were demonstrating in a forum that has no influence over the claimed subject matter of their protest. That makes it (a) childish, and (b) unrelated to Lisbon.
cordially,
ScofflawYou can post on the lisbon treaty and our referendum on it right here. The video is unrelated to either of those, so you won't be posting it here again.let me get this straight - a protest for a referenda across europe on the lisbon treaty is not related to the lisbon treaty?
Anyone else think that sounds a bit mad?:rolleyes:
If its not related because its in the parliament, which doesnt have the power to determine referendum requirements, where would they be able to have the protest about the treaty that it would be actually be related to the treaty then?
Or are you saying that any and all protests about the treaty are not related to the treaty?Hey look, you got it in one. Most specifically, a protest by MEPs in the european parliament has about as much to do with the debate on the lisbon treaty in Ireland as the price of ice in Russia.
I get that you're wanting to throw as much mud as you can at EU institutions so that some of it will stick in people's mind when they read through the thread, but since these posts will be deleted due to their being off-topic within the next hour that won't be happening.
They should have their protests in their national parliaments where the decision was made on whether to have a referendum or not. The EU had no power over how each state ratified the treaty, it was purely down to the laws in each state along with the decisions of their governments.more censorship :eek:When held somewhere that has no power over whether there are referendums? I'm afraid so - it becomes a deliberate attempt to confuse the debate.
Quite possibly. That doesn't change the facts of the matter, though.
Well, in the case of the UK MEPs, in the House of Commons. In the case of Kathy Sinnott, the appropriate place would have been the Dáil, assuming we weren't having a referendum. Funnily enough, we are, because the question of whether we do or not is up to the Irish government, not the EP...which takes me back to point 1.
They're not relevant to the debate. We get to vote on the Treaty - therefore we should discuss the Treaty. Publicity-seeking events that surround that debate, but contribute nothing substantive to it, are a deliberate distraction away from the facts, whether they're done by the No side or the Yes side. That is their intention, and repeating them all over the place simply plays into the hands of those who prefer to substitute politics for facts.
cordially,
Scofflaw0 -
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