Irish Squad Omissions

Tomthepost

How could Ireland leave Liam Lawerence out of the squad. Something like 15 goals and 16 assists so far this season and it looks like Stoke are going up so in the premiership again next season.
John Joe O'Toole at Watford is another poor omission.
Are the 'plastic paddies' no longer wanted???
Maybe Roy Keane is picking the squad. Come on like David Connolly????

Gavin "shels"

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

shane86

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

It is probably because our prem and c`ship players have more talent.

Which is why they are playing in the prem and c`ship.


Out of curiousity how many Scunthorpe games have you watched this season to decide Murphy is less deserving of a place than the aforementioned LOI players?

Tomthepost

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

Joe Murphy aint the keeper you should be picking on. HAs played over 40 games in the championship this season and by god has be been busy!!!!!!

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

Joe Gamble - Flopped at Reading (When in championship)
George O Callaghan - A bloke with mental issues it would appear. Didn't do much to write home about at almighty brighton
Jason Byrne - Flopped at Cardiff
Glen Crowe - Flopped at Wolves
Colin Healy - Past best becuase of injuries


I have alot of respect for Eircom League fans but this argument is ridiculous and comes around again and again.
It sums it up that ye still use Jason Byrne and Glen Crowe as examples years after they have peaked as strikers.
Personally I think Jason Gavin should have got a chance
Maybe Jeff Kenna might but the boots on down west now. We certainly need more defenders.

estebancambias

I doubt John Joe is a Plastic Paddy.

Tomthepost

John Joe was brought up in Harrow in North London
Grand parents are born i Ireland

estebancambias

I think the term plastic paddy is unfair to Americans and English people who feel Irish.

Sort of off topic.

jesus_thats_gre

estebancambias wrote: »

I think the term plastic paddy is unfair to Americans and English people who feel Irish.

Sort of off topic.

Who feel Irish... Sorta sums up it up, doesn't it...:rolleyes:

Tomthepost

estebancambias wrote: »

I think the term plastic paddy is unfair to Americans and English people who feel Irish.

Sort of off topic.

Maybe you should have a closer look at the context I meant it in.
What I mean is that there is an element of person out there that would prefer us to have 40 players born and breed in Ireland as opposed to picking the best players we can have.

Anybody got any opinions on Liam Lawerence or John Joe?????

bohsman

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

Pretty sure Brian Murphy and Barry Murphy could do a job as reserve keeper, dont know much about Scunthorpe but theyve conceded 66 goals this season, think Brian Murphy conceded 19 goals in 35 games last year including 22 clean sheets, that was in front of a fairly shakey defence. I am also sure the 2 B.Murphys will be back in England at some stage, Brian Murphy said he would go if a good championship team come in for him - so not Scunthorpe Id say.

None of the others on that list have done anything to deserve to be in the squad.

CantGetNoSleep

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

Are you serious? Byrne and Crowe? Come off it now, have you actually watched eL matches recently or are you just giving them as examples because they have been given as examples for years?

watman

Tomthepost wrote: »

Maybe you should have a closer look at the context I meant it in.
What I mean is that there is an element of person out there that would prefer us to have 40 players born and breed in Ireland as opposed to picking the best players we can have.

Anybody got any opinions on Liam Lawerence or John Joe?????

In my opinion both should have been included in the 40. Liam has been immense for us this year, John Joe looks a real good prospect for watford - Both i am sure will get in once the boss has had time to have a proper look

applehunter

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

Can someone take the microphone off this guy?

Jason Byrne at a stretch but Fatass Crowe would be an embarrassment if he got another cap.

How about Thomas Butler/Rory Delap/Tabb, where these guys included?

applehunter

Tomthepost wrote: »

George O Callaghan - A bloke with mental issues it would appear. Didn't do much to write home about at almighty brighton

:mad:He was actually Brightons best player when he was there. Glad he came home. Geroge is pure quality. Few players in that squad that haven't half his ability.

Tomthepost wrote: »

Colin Healy - Past best becuase of injuries

Haven't seen a lot of us yet this season, but reports from Turner's Cross is that he is playing great stuff so far. Cork City are going have a tough time keeping him at the club as there will no doubt be suiters for him in Britain.

Xavi6

As usual the eL tinted glasses are out. Now I'm as a big a supporter of the league as most people but there is no way the likes of Crowe, Byrne, O'Callaghan and Healy should be anywhere near the squad. Same goes for either of the three keepers mentioned.

Joe Murphy is an excellent keeper playing in a poor team. Last season he kept the most clean sheets in League One and won the golden glove award. Of course he deserves to be in the squad.

The only two glaring ommissions for me are Lawrence and Jay Tabb. Other than that there's no problem.

Eirebear

Unfortunately its a major catch 22 issue for Irish football when it comes to the home based players argument.

On one level, the EL just isnt good enough, nor is the money there to sustain the best Irish players.
Kids grow up watching Premiership Matches and very few will ever see the inside of an EL ground, its only natural theyre going to want to play over there.

But how is the EL to ever improve if its players are constantly ignored b the national team? Its bad enough not getting the recognition you want in your own country in terms of wages...but if your talent isnt going to be recognised at all by anyone outside the league...you know whats going to happen.

I dont know enough about the scunthorpe players and that kind of level to really comment on how good they are.
But there is something to be said for playing at the top level in any country, the pressures are completely different to that of someone who is playing in the lower reaches...no matter how good that countries football is.
Players at the top teams in any given country understand the pressure of being expected to win EVERY game, whereas players at mid table, mid division clubs dont.

I personally would like to see Ireland take more advantage of the 'B' internationals and use these guys, give them the experience....you just never know really.

bohsman

Xavi6 wrote: »

As usual the eL tinted glasses are out. Now I'm as a big a supporter of the league as most people but there is no way the likes of Crowe, Byrne, O'Callaghan and Healy should be anywhere near the squad. Same goes for either of the three keepers mentioned.

Joe Murphy is an excellent keeper playing in a poor team. Last season he kept the most clean sheets in League One and won the golden glove award. Of course he deserves to be in the squad.

Dont want to defend Brian Murphy too much as he's about the only player in the squad Id be really pissed off about losing and Ive no doubt he'll make it in England when he gets the right offer, hes a class above - maybe its just that hes the only decent keeper Bohs have had in the last 10 years, feels nice not to worry every time a cross comes in. As I said I know very little about Joe Murphy and Scunthorpe but just checking wiki there, seems he deserves to be there alright and hes the right side of 30. Never saw the point of old keepers who arent going to replace Given taking up a place in the squad.

Xavi6

Eirebear wrote: »

I dont know enough about the scunthorpe players and that kind of level to really comment on how good they are.
But there is something to be said for playing at the top level in any country, the pressures are completely different to that of someone who is playing in the lower reaches...no matter how good that countries football is.
Players at the top teams in any given country understand the pressure of being expected to win EVERY game, whereas players at mid table, mid division clubs dont.

Can't agree with that. A team going for promotion or facing relegation in League One etc has just as much pressure on them as a top eL team. In fact I'd go so far as to say even more pressure as League One attendences would be higher than those in the eL.

Eirebear wrote: »

I personally would like to see Ireland take more advantage of the 'B' internationals and use these guys, give them the experience....you just never know really.

Yep there's your answer to the problem right there. More B internationals. Gives the players a run out in an international environment. If they do well then step them up.

Eirebear

Xavi6 wrote: »

Can't agree with that. A team going for promotion or facing relegation in League One etc has just as much pressure on them as a top eL team. In fact I'd go so far as to say even more pressure as League One attendences would be higher than those in the eL.

Attendances arent the be all and end all, the pressures at a top team in any given country is completely different to a team who are looking at a mid table finish at best.

Take the SPL for example (as its the league i understand most) Rangers and Celtic are the two main teams obviously, and most people would put them on a par with the lower-mid table EPL teams, your West Hams and Brum's etc.

But the expectation on Rangers and Celtic is to win every game, a draw against a decent aberdeen side away from home is seen as two points dropped and all of a sudden everything dissolves into some sort of mini crisis.
Even when Rangers and Celtic play in europe, the fans cant shake that expectation from the league....and again the pressure is on the players, even when it shouldnt be.

But at Birmingham or Bolton or the likes, fans know when they come up against the better teams in their league that they are going to struggle...any result (especially against the "Big Four") is a bonus, its only when they come up against the teams around them that they become must wins...and more so the closer you get to the relegation zone.

The same applies to your top EL teams....your Shel's Boh's Pat's Cork etc. their fans EXPECT wins.

Im not saying these guys are better players than the League 1, League 2 guys, but playing in the top division always has the edge when it comes to pressure. IMO of course.

Xavi6

I see what you mean but I think playing at the top of any league has the same pressure.

For example, if Nottingham Forest or whoever is clearly the best team in League One then the expectation on them to win is the same as Manchester United or Celtic. All you have to do is look at betting odds. There is just as much expectation on Forest to steamroll Luton as there is for Celtic to do Gretna or United to destroy Derby.

Eirebear

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see what you mean but I think playing at the top of any league has the same pressure.

For example, if Nottingham Forest or whoever is clearly the best team in League One then the expectation on them to win is the same as Manchester United or Celtic. All you have to do is look at betting odds. There is just as much expectation on Forest to steamroll Luton as there is for Celtic to do Gretna or United to destroy Derby.

Yep, as the season goes on thats always going to happen.
However in the top division its slightly different still.

Before the season even looks like starting the top teams in a country are expected to win the league....the promotion race in most lower divisions can be a little bit of a lottery at that time of year, with a team thats been bouncing about the middle reaches of the table suddenly building up a good head of steam and having a really good season, much like forest.
The pressure builds as the season goes on for them, whereas with the top teams the pressure is an absolute constant and for me will stand the players in better stead for the pressures of international footbal

In turn giving the EL a little bit more attraction, glamour and opportunity.

(Apologies if im rambling a little here, i buggered my ankle at 5s the other night and the doc' prescribed me some vicious painkillers!)

LuckyLloyd

Gavin shels wrote: »

How is Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United) in the squad and Barry Murphy(Shamrock Rovers), Darren Quigley (Derry City) or Brian Murphy (Bohs) are not?

How aren't players like Joe Gamble (Cork City), Colin Healy (Cork City), George O'Callaghan (Cork City), Jason Byrne (Bohs), Glen Crowe (Bohs) in the squad and the list could go on.

Seriously. Beyond hilarious.

Bubs101

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see what you mean but I think playing at the top of any league has the same pressure.

For example, if Nottingham Forest or whoever is clearly the best team in League One then the expectation on them to win is the same as Manchester United or Celtic. All you have to do is look at betting odds. There is just as much expectation on Forest to steamroll Luton as there is for Celtic to do Gretna or United to destroy Derby.

It's not as bad. If Forest were at home to Grimbsby or whoever the dregs of League 1 are they'd be about 1/4 or 1/3. Man UTd at home to Derby is 1/9 or even less

Nalz

Paddy Mac @ Charlton and Noel Hunt for me...

_blank_

There is no Irish player currently playing in Ireland who is up to international standard.

Simple.

gustavo

DesF wrote: »

There is no Irish player currently playing in Ireland who is up to international standard.

Simple.

That may be so , but theres a few players in that 40 man squad who are also not up to international standard

_blank_

gustavo wrote: »

That may be so , but theres a few players in that 40 man squad who are also not up to international standard

True, and I'm sure they will be found out.

The thing is this.

Until the eircom League has some proper investment, on a League-wide scale, until the facilities improve, until the FAI start treating like it actually cares about it, instead of coming up with new and innovative ways to screw the clubs, until people start to go to games, until players see it as a proper way to start out in the game, until the better players regularly go to the bigger leagues for proper amounts of money, rather than the pittance they go for now, then the eircom League is going to be nothing more than a backwater league, devoid of talent, and even more devoid of recognition.

Nalz

Killian Brennan ftw

OhNoYouDidn't

There are two seperate debates going on here.

Firstly, are there any LoI players with anything to offer the senior Irish squad? The answer is yes, there are an abundance of superb keepers playing in Ireland at the moment. Baz and Bohs Murphy and Quigly are as good if not better than the current third choice Irish keeper. They are legitimatly in the top 6 Irish keepers at them moment and deserve a look in. As it happens, Rovers, Bohs and Derry would hammer Scunthorpe.

Secondly, are there LoI players who deserve a go in the 40? I think the form Fahey is in at Pats,Healy and O'Callaghan are in down in Cork as well as youngsters like O'Carrueil that yes, these guys are comparable to League One players at every level. We arent exactly blessed with midfield options, so why not?

Also Noel Hunt has to get a look in at some point.

Jonny Arson

Noel Hunt and Liam Lawrence are very unlucky to be omitted from squad. Sean Dillon and Paddy McCarthy are another two players who have come on alot this season who may feel a little hard done by

regarding eircom league players, in the context of some of the usual hacks that are in that squad, yes definitely the likes of Brian Murphy, Darren Quigley, Keith Fahey deserve a place on merit but until the very second they put pen to paper with a British club (see Kevin Doyle's overnight rise to international footballer) the discrimination will continue so i wont get my hopes up of anything changing

_blank_

I forgot about Sean "Dillon me Softly".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z18nOH7R_4I

Quality centre back.

Would love to see him in the Ireland squad tbh.

ShoulderChip

sure lets see how the boys selected do first.

Eirebear

ShoulderChip wrote: »

sure lets see how the boys selected do first.

Pffft! Wheres the fun in that!? Complainings much more fun!

SectionF

Scunthorpe! I ask you...

Don't normally like to use the word, but I do think that anyone who summarily dismisses eL players as not being good enough to challenge for a place in that squad is talking out of ignorance. They either don't know, or don't want to know, how competitive the eL Premier Division is.

Keith Fahey, Brian Murphy or Joe Gamble could easily challenge for a place in the squad.

Apart from the merit of individual players, isn't it simply a bit embarrassing that not one of our international squad comes from the home league? If opposition fans cared enough, they'd have a decent chant about it, but the fact is that Eire is no longer good enough, and hasn't been for quite a while, to warrant even that.

smackbunnybaby

joe murphy is a quality goalkeeper. he has played in the premiership and saved a penalty from Michael Owen.
due to him not being give a chance he dropped down a few divisions to scunthorpe and helped them get promoted.
i see no problem at all in giving this a go.

OhNoYouDidn't

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

joe murphy is a quality goalkeeper. he has played in the premiership and saved a penalty from Michael Owen.
due to him not being give a chance he dropped down a few divisions to scunthorpe and helped them get promoted.
i see no problem at all in giving this a go.

But the point is you can't arbitrarily not pick LoI players on the basis of the quality of their league and 'give Joe Murphy a go' while playing at a lower level again.

I stand by my belief that Barry and Brian Murphy are better keepers at a higher standard and have more grounds for inclusion in the Irish setup.

Seaneh

was the final squad published?

gosplan

Eirebear wrote: »

Attendances arent the be all and end all, the pressures at a top team in any given country is completely different to a team who are looking at a mid table finish at best.

Take the SPL for example (as its the league i understand most) Rangers and Celtic are the two main teams obviously, and most people would put them on a par with the lower-mid table EPL teams, your West Hams and Brum's etc.

But the expectation on Rangers and Celtic is to win every game, a draw against a decent aberdeen side away from home is seen as two points dropped and all of a sudden everything dissolves into some sort of mini crisis.
Even when Rangers and Celtic play in europe, the fans cant shake that expectation from the league....and again the pressure is on the players, even when it shouldnt be.

But at Birmingham or Bolton or the likes, fans know when they come up against the better teams in their league that they are going to struggle...any result (especially against the "Big Four") is a bonus, its only when they come up against the teams around them that they become must wins...and more so the closer you get to the relegation zone.

The same applies to your top EL teams....your Shel's Boh's Pat's Cork etc. their fans EXPECT wins.

Im not saying these guys are better players than the League 1, League 2 guys, but playing in the top division always has the edge when it comes to pressure. IMO of course.

sounds like being the top team in the second division would tick all those boxes as well

Guy:Incognito

SectionF wrote: »

Scunthorpe! I ask you...

Don't normally like to use the word, but I do think that anyone who summarily dismisses eL players as not being good enough to challenge for a place in that squad is talking out of ignorance. .

Des is ignorant of EL football? :eek:

Eirebear

gosplan wrote: »

sounds like being the top team in the second division would tick all those boxes as well

Nope....if you read my posts after that i tried to explain my logic.

Playing for one of the countrys top 2 or 3 teams brings pressure from day 1 of every season.

Teams bounce about the lower divisions for years, and then one good season turns up and the pressure builds gradually as the season goes on

SectionF

Stekelly wrote: »

Des is ignorant of EL football? :eek:

Well, he'd be a bit rusty on the elite division

LuckyLloyd

Section F, two weekends ago I went to see Charlton play Southampton in London. Paddy MacCarthy looked like a solid defender; Matt Holland was the best player on the pitch and controlled the game beautifully from the centre of the pitch.

And here is the important part:

The standard was miles and miles and miles ahead of any UCD game I have ever attended. In terms of:

- the pace of the game;
- the technical ability of the players;
- the tactical approach and creativity;

there is no comparison. You may love the Eircom league. Yes it is football on our doorstep; yes it is clubs we can have a proper allegiance too etc, etc. But it is a **** league devoid of quality. Anyone who says Derry; Bohs; Cork could hammer Scrunthorpe over two legs are fooling themselves. You have the rose tinted glasses lads, not us.

Playing in the Eircom league = not good enough for Ireland. End of (though I'm sure you'll post a ridiculous rebuttal with a weary, weather beaten tone and some red angry faces).

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Section F, two weekends ago I went to see Charlton play Southampton in London. Paddy MacCarthy looked like a solid defender; Matt Holland was the best player on the pitch and controlled the game beautifully from the centre of the pitch.

And here is the important part:

The standard was miles and miles and miles ahead of any UCD game I have ever attended. In terms of:

- the pace of the game;
- the technical ability of the players;
- the tactical approach and creativity;

there is no comparison. You may love the Eircom league. Yes it is football on our doorstep; yes it is clubs we can have a proper allegiance too etc, etc. But it is a **** league devoid of quality. Anyone who says Derry; Bohs; Cork could hammer Scrunthorpe over two legs are fooling themselves. You have the rose tinted glasses lads, not us.

Playing in the Eircom league = not good enough for Ireland. End of (though I'm sure you'll post a ridiculous rebuttal with a weary, weather beaten tone and some red angry faces).

I wouldn't say hammer. but Cork City would definitely give Scunthorpe and Southampton a game.

How can you rate a league by Charlton beating the worst Southampton team in 20 years!

Also I take it you weren't at the game when Cork City beat UCD at Belfield 5-1 in 2005.

LuckyLloyd

applehunter wrote: »

I wouldn't say hammer. but Cork City would definitely give Scunthorpe and Southampton a game.

How can you rate a league by Charlton beating the worst Southampton team in 20 years!

I'm sure that they would give them a game over two legs. However, if I was a betting man (and assuming that both teams were giving 100%) I would put my money squarely on the Championship sides.

Now, it is the very fact that we were looking at two clubs underachieving relative to their last 10 years that emphasises my point! While the two sides are not the cream of the Championship they served up a much better fare than I have seen in the EL ever.

applehunter wrote: »

Also I take it you weren't at the game when Cork City beat UCD at Belfield 5-1 in 2005.

O' Flynn and Fenn destroyed us that day.

bohsman

Goalkeepers: Shay Given (Newcastle), Wayne Henderson (Preston North End), Paddy Kenny (Sheffield United), Darren Randolph (Charlton Athletic – on loan to Bury), Colin Doyle (Birmingham City), Joe Murphy (Scunthorpe United).

Defenders: Stephen Kelly (Birmingham City), Richard Dunne (Manchester City), Kevin Kilbane (Wigan Athletic), John O’Shea (Manchester United), Joey O’Brien (Bolton Wanderers), Paul McShane (Sunderland), Kevin Foley (Wolves), Darren O’Dea (Celtic).

Midfielders: Steven Reid (Blackburn Rovers), Liam Miller (Sunderland), Stephen Ireland (Manchester City), Damien Duff (Newcastle United), Aiden McGeady (Celtic), Andy Reid (Sunderland), Lee Carsley (Everton), Darron Gibson (Manchester United – on loan to Wolves), Stephen Hunt (Reading), Darren Potter (Wolves), Owen Garvan (Ipswich Town), Wes Hoolahan (Blackpool), Stephen McPhail (Cardiff City), Martin Rowlands (QPR), Glenn Whelan (Stoke City).

Forwards: Stephen Elliott (Wolves), Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur), Kevin Doyle, Shane Long (both Reading), Clinton Morrison (Crystal Palace), Andy Keogh (Wolves), Anthony Stokes, Daryl Murphy, Roy O’Donovan, David Connolly (all Sunderland), Sean Scannell (Crystal Palace).

Its mad that Roy O'Donovan wasnt good enough last year when scoring freely for Cork City but now that he has played 500 minutes for Sunderland and not scored hes suddenly in.
Colin Doyle has played 3 games this season, surely a keeper playing well regularly in league challenging side is more worthy of a place in the squad.

I have no doubt that neither will make the 24 man squad but surely form counts for something?

SantryRed

I follow Watford so I do see a lot of Championship football.

O'Toole should be in that squad ahead of Martin Rowlands by a mile. O'Toole is a very good and talented football playing midfielder. He's the only player who can actually play football at Watford:D

The stats for Lawrence alone is a joke that he isn't in there. I seriously think the only reason Whelan is in there ahead of him is because of that cracker he scored live on Sky against Palace a few Mondays ago.

Rory Delap has been performing well lately as well. He should be in there ahead of the likes of Foley and O'Dea.

Xavi6

I'm gonna throw Willo Flood's name into the ring as well. Looked like he was finished when he left City but fair play to him he's doing super in Scotland and just got given the Goal of the Season award.

tetsujin1979

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm gonna throw Willo Flood's name into the ring as well. Looked like he was finished when he left City but fair play to him he's doing super in Scotland and just got given the Goal of the Season award.

Was watching the Dundee United - Hibs game at the weekend, and Flood was the best player on the pitch

Eirebear

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm gonna throw Willo Flood's name into the ring as well. Looked like he was finished when he left City but fair play to him he's doing super in Scotland and just got given the Goal of the Season award.

Hes been fantastic for United this season.