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Hats off to the Italians...

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2

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    #32
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's ok for the thread to be about Conor74's views, but not about him.

    Just a friendly pointer, like.
    10-4 OB.;)


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    #33
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,921 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And yet they don't spend all their time wondering are they the worst little country ever and saying it wouldn't happen anywhere else...

    How do you know that those who voted for the opposition are not thinking things like that?

    Are you jealous that our own "loveable rouges" (to FF supporters) aren't as stylish and dashing as Berlusconi??:pac:


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    #34
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Only for laws prohibiting criminally prosecuted (or whatever the correct phrase is), there is no reason why a convictred rapist, murderer or whatever you're having yourself, could not be the best Taoiseach ever to serve.

    What Conor is getting at is that the incinuation that your bank account and ethics could be a shady as crude oil, does not mean you're not fit to serve in public office.


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    #35
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    fly_agaric wrote: »

    Are you jealous that our own "loveable rouges" (to FF supporters) aren't as stylish and dashing as Berlusconi??:pac:

    John McGuinness would be an exception, he has the empire, but I know of no shady dealings surrounding him though.


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    #36
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    ninty9er wrote: »
    What Conor is getting at is that the incinuation that your bank account and ethics could be a shady as crude oil, does not mean you're not fit to serve in public office.
    This is not Italy it's Ireland. We're seeing the true colours of the Fianna Failers on this thread anyway.


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    #37
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    ballooba wrote: »
    This is not Italy it's Ireland. We're seeing the true colours of the Fianna Failers on this thread anyway.

    And we're seing the true bitterness of those who don't understand that ALL that matters, is how politicians SERVE.


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    #38
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    I think we should base our environmental policy on Italy's too. A fine example.

    Not like those Swedes who too busy caring about ethics and standards to get things done.

    Really lads. This is equivalent to saying "I've found one country with worse broadband penetration rates than ours."


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    #39
    rockbeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭rockbeer


    ninty9er wrote: »
    What Conor is getting at is that the incinuation that your bank account and ethics could be a shady as crude oil, does not mean you're not fit to serve in public office.

    Really? So presumably you'd be happy to let a suspected paedophile work with children on the basis that s/he might be a great teacher?
    ninty9er wrote: »
    And we're seing the true bitterness of those who don't understand that ALL that matters, is how politicians SERVE.

    If I accept a bribe or sweetener in exchange for a favour, then that is how I've served... corruptly. And that has consequences for others, the ones who don't get the favours or pay the bribes. Don't you get it? Or does it just not matter to you? Maybe it would if you found yourself on the wrong end of it.

    Anyway, it's interesting to hear all you FF lads acknowledging that Bertie is corrupt, despite all his denials. Maybe that's some sort of progress. All you need to do now is learn to care about it.


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    #40
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    ninty9er wrote: »
    And we're seing the true bitterness of those who don't understand that ALL that matters, is how politicians SERVE.
    No bitterness here. Bertie will soon be gone and he will be remembered for the scumbag he is. I got what I wanted.

    It's clear from your comments above that integrity means nothing to you and that having a convicted rapist in office would not bother you. Try testing that one with the female voters on the doorsteps.


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    #41
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Only for laws prohibiting criminally prosecuted (or whatever the correct phrase is), there is no reason why a convictred rapist, murderer or whatever you're having yourself, could not be the best Taoiseach ever to serve.

    What Conor is getting at is that the incinuation that your bank account and ethics could be a shady as crude oil, does not mean you're not fit to serve in public office.

    I just needed to quote this so that this classic doesn't dissapear in case you decide to edit it later and then claim "mature recollection", denying you ever said it.

    This is by far the most ridiculous and sick attidude towards ethics and morals in politics that I have ever seen displayed ...and I mean ever ..and I have been around for a while.

    You might want to add that first sentence there to your signature :D


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    #42
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    peasant wrote: »
    You might want to add that first sentence there to your signature :D
    Might even add it myself.


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    #43
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    ninty9er wrote: »
    And we're seing the true bitterness of those who don't understand that ALL that matters, is how politicians SERVE.

    Being that both Bertie and Berlusconi have served atrociously it should give pause to the notion that corruption and servitude aren't linked.


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    #44
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    sovtek wrote: »
    Being that both Bertie and Berlusconi have served atrociously it should give pause to the notion that corruption and servitude aren't linked.

    a little harsh sovtek?


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    #45
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    a little harsh sovtek?

    In what way?


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    #46
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    a little harsh sovtek?

    Maybe but I don't think so.
    In Italy I heard people are being paid 7-800 a month and there are no jobs. Here there are jobs (right now) and average salary is 2000 a week..but buys you what 800 does in Italy.


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    #47
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    sovtek wrote: »
    Maybe but I don't think so.
    In Italy I heard people are being paid 7-800 a month and there are no jobs. Here there are jobs (right now) and average salary is 2000 a week..but buys you what 800 does in Italy.

    sovtek I don't know where you pull these 'facts' out of

    average salary of 2k per week = 104k p.a. :eek:

    I'm off to get me an average job!! (the real actual average salary is about 35k)

    no seriously, I'm no lover of Bertie but I think he has had some achievements in office - N.I. peace process being the main one. Some economic indicators ticked up on his watch also

    Berlusconi on the other hand...:rolleyes:


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    #48
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    sovtek I don't know where you pull these 'facts' out of

    average salary of 2k per week = 104k p.a. :eek:

    I'm off to get me an average job!! (the real actual average salary is about 35k)

    no seriously, I'm no lover of Bertie but I think he has had some achievements in office - N.I. peace process being the main one. Some economic indicators ticked up on his watch also

    Berlusconi on the other hand...:rolleyes:

    I would think that's an obvious typo

    Bertie achievements...the plastic bag tax...although it's now being used as yet another way to extract money from us.
    The economy was ticking up before Bertie as I understand it. How that has been mismanaged is quite obvious.

    Oh jesus yet another "leader" wanting to jump on the NI peace process bandwagon. The people that should get credit for that are the grassroots campaigns of ordinary people that were sick of the **** going on in their backyard...it wasn't Clinton, Bertie, Blair...Feck it...nevermind


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    #49
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    sovtek wrote: »
    Oh jesus yet another "leader" wanting to jump on the NI peace process bandwagon. The people that should get credit for that are the grassroots campaigns of ordinary people that were sick of the **** going on in their backyard...it wasn't Clinton, Bertie, Blair...Feck it...nevermind

    That attitude sickens me. Bertie Ahern has given his life to politics and even Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore gave him his due in the Dáil chamber yesterday, singling the peace process out as the defining achievement of his career.

    Now if his greatest political rivals can admit it then I see no reason why you can't.

    He's no saint, and nobody ever said he was. But look over TV footage from 1998 and you'll see that Bertie Ahern attended his mother's funeral before returning to Belfast to hammer out the finer details. You do the same and see how you like it when some nobody on the internet calls you a scumbag!!
    rockbeer wrote: »
    If I accept a bribe or sweetener in exchange for a favour, then that is how I've served... corruptly. And that has consequences for others, the ones who don't get the favours or pay the bribes. Don't you get it? Or does it just not matter to you? Maybe it would if you found yourself on the wrong end of it.
    Taking wads of cash was stupid, but not ONE, anywhere on this PLANET has yet linked it to any bribery. Cop on and let the tribunals decide if Owen O'Callaghan bribed Bertie. If he did, again stupid, but nothing extraordinary for the time in which it took place.
    rockbeer wrote: »
    Anyway, it's interesting to hear all you FF lads acknowledging that Bertie is corrupt, despite all his denials. Maybe that's some sort of progress. All you need to do now is learn to care about it.

    I am yet to see he is corrupt, but if anyone does ever get around to proving it rather than speculating on it; I will accept that.


    There's a whiff of bullsh1t in here:(


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    #50
    rockbeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭rockbeer


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Taking wads of cash was stupid, but not ONE, anywhere on this PLANET has yet linked it to any bribery.

    How naive can you be? You really think wealthy businessmen are in the habit of handing out large wads of cash to influential politicians in exchange for... nothing? Cop on yourself.


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    #51
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    ninty9er wrote: »
    You do the same and see how you like it when some nobody on the internet calls you a scumbag!!
    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....


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    #52
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    ballooba wrote: »
    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

    It must be a member of the FF Front bench?


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ballooba wrote: »
    No bitterness here. Bertie will soon be gone and he will be remembered for the scumbag he is.

    He'll be gone alright, but I suspect he'll be remembered as the most successful leader this country ever had. I know its tiresome, but history books have always been full of more about the North and the economy, rathar than the more colourful or personal stuff.

    Either way, not sure how this thread has evolved into a discussion on whether rapists and paedophiles can lead. I never made that argument or suggested it. At the risk of repeating myself again, I just think Berlusconi's offences put Bertie's in the shade, and the argument that we were the worst or most corrupt in the world, the line constantly trotted out by the handful who ring Joe Duffy, was patently nonsense.


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    #54
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He'll be gone alright, but I suspect he'll be remembered as the most successful leader this country ever had. I know its tiresome, but history books have always been full of more about the North and the economy, rathar than the more colourful or personal stuff.
    35% odd of the population will always remember CJ Haughey in that light. They will also delude themselves that the rest of the country shares that view.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    At the risk of repeating myself again, I just think Berlusconi's offences put Bertie's in the shade, and the argument that we were the worst or most corrupt in the world, the line constantly trotted out by the handful who ring Joe Duffy, was patently nonsense.
    Quite obviously Bertie Ahern is not the most corrupt leader in the world. Thankfully we in Ireland have a more free and more fair society that put's a higher value on integrity of character.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ballooba wrote: »
    35% odd of the population will always remember CJ Haughey in that light. They will also delude themselves that the rest of the country shares that view.

    On the other hand 60% have always hated FF and will delude themselves that political records must be overlooked and every flaw elevated to becoming The Most Important Thing.

    I believe integrity is The Most Important Thing at the moment.


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    #56
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    Deleted User wrote: »
    On the other hand 60% have always hated FF and will delude themselves that political records must be overlooked and every flaw elevated to becoming The Most Important Thing.

    I believe integrity is The Most Important Thing at the moment.
    Awww.... poor little Fianna Fail. 60% of the population "hate" them*.

    i.e. don't pledge blind allegiance and live by the maxim "I'd die for Dev".


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ballooba wrote: »
    i.e. don't pledge blind allegiance and live by the maxim "I'd die for Dev".

    Yawn. This is getting (i) boring and (ii) off topic.

    Get an archeologist and dig up an older line if you can. Don't bother with details like FF showing the largest bounce in popularity of any party before the last election, which suggest that their vote is more fluid than the 10% who will always vote Labour come hell or high water, or the 20% who are FG to the core, blind allegiance, live by maxim, die for Collins blah blah blah.

    Anyway, to bring it back on topic. I wonder were those whose parties lost to Berlusconi in the Italian election as bitter as the losers here?


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    #58
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anyway, to bring it back on topic. I wonder were those whose parties lost to Berlusconi in the Italian election as bitter as the losers here?
    No bitterness here. I've seen nothing but (relative) success in my 18 months odd in Fine Gael. Bertie's comeuppance would have to be the highlight though. McDowell's departure was a bittersweet event. If anyone's bitter right now it's corruption sympathisers who try and rationalise CJH and BAs wrongdoings.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ballooba wrote: »
    I've seen nothing but (relative) success in my 18 months odd in Fine Gael.

    :D

    Fair play to you for the injection of humour. It was (relatively) the most successful election loss ever!


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    #60
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    Deleted User wrote: »
    :D

    Fair play to you for the injection of humour. It was (relatively) the most successful election loss ever!
    Rome wasn't built in a day Conor. I'd rather lose one election than stand behind the crooks in Fianna Fail. Seeing the back of that cretin Bertie Ahern would have been enough on it's own.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ballooba wrote: »
    Rome wasn't built in a day Conor.

    Fine Gael have been around for a bit longer than that.
    ballooba wrote: »
    I'd rather lose one election

    Stick around long enough and you'll find out it's more than 'one'. Three in Bertie's time alone. In fact, every single one since 1982! If you learn any lesson from Silvio, it's never say die I guess. So you should appreciate the 'hats off' sentiment in the thread.
    ballooba wrote: »
    stand behind the crooks in Fianna Fail.

    Don't worry. As soon as FG get the whiff of power, it'll be back to the days of feathering Denis O'Brien's nest again. Power corrupts. You lot just don't get any of it!


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