Is it wrong to use drugs.

JC 2K3

meditraitor wrote: »

It will never be legal to smoke dope, take pills, snort coke or do gear because Ireland is bad enough as it is with alcohol being legal without letting a whole new sort of problem flower by legalising other harmful substances.

But what other problems would there be?

I've said this many times on here, making more drugs legal won't magically give people more time to be taking drugs, and it won't make people take drugs more often. Unless there's something much more unhealthy/problematic about doing pills one weekend, alcohol the next, weed the next, coke the next etc., as opposed to doing alcohol every weekend, then I don't see how there'd be any more problems than the current situation. I actually reckon it'd be healthier to be doing a different drug every week, since too much of anything is bad for you and doing the same drug every weekend would also increase the risk of addiction. Alternating the recreational drugs one takes can only be a good thing.(As well as alternating between activities involving drugs and those which do not, which should be promoted a lot more)

Sam Vimes

TheNog wrote: »

The person who loses control is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs. Drugs do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid.

The person who loses control while driving a car is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of driving. cars do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while flying in a plane is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of flying. planes do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while drinking alcohol is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of drinking. drinking does mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while drilling a hole in a wall is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of drilling holes. drilling holes does mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid



you can't ban something because a tiny minority of people who do that thing are badly affected by it. then you would have to ban everything

Earthhorse

JC 2K3 wrote: »

And as a matter of interest, would you be in favour of banning food containing peanuts? Studies show that about 1% of people have a peanut allergy and would be at serious risk of death if they were to ingest them. We should ban peanut containing foods to protect them, no?

No, because we can test for allergies but we can't test for people's states of mind and how they'll react to psycho-active substances.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

If drugs were legal there wouldn't be any murders linked to drugs!

If people stopped buying drugs there wouldn't be any murders linked to drugs!

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I've said this many times on here, making more drugs legal won't magically give people more time to be taking drugs, and it won't make people take drugs more often.

It won't magically do anything no but that isn't a guarantee that behaviour won't change either. Even if you look at substances that are already legal, such as caffeine and alcohol, the consumption of these substances changes over time.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I actually reckon it'd be healthier to be doing a different drug every week, since too much of anything is bad for you and doing the same drug every weekend would also increase the risk of addiction. Alternating the recreational drugs one takes can only be a good thing.

Doubt it's as simple as that. It would depend on how long these substances stayed in the body, how they interact with one another, the doses in which they were taken and probably a host of other factors as well.

ScumLord

TheNog wrote: »

Look drug laws in this couontry are general in nature. The government simply cannot create a law where they say to one person that you can take drugs 'cos you are responsible when under the influence and then say to the next person it is illegal for you to take drugs 'cos you are not responsible when under the influence. This is why drug laws ban possession for everyone.

It is the same for drunk driving. There are guidelines to what you could drink without being over the limit but so many factors have to be taken into account the guidelines are pretty much useless. I don't know if I got my point across correctly there.

meditraitor wrote: »

As for the original question
Q-Is it wrong to take drugs
A-My head hurts thinking about this question because as usual the users(dope,yips,dust and gear-illegal) are heaping alcohol and cigarrettes into the argument to justify their own habit.

If you break the question down
What do you mean by wrong?
What do you mean by drugs?
then it becomes something that a 100000 line thesis might not cover

If I wanted to argue the positives of smoking weed this is the question I would ask?
If I wanted to argue the negatives of smoking weed this is also the question I would ask?

There's allot crap involved with the drugs issue. Crime, health issues, so on, so on, but I just wanted to go back to basics and work my way up. Is it wrong to use drugs for fun. The general view seems to be no. So why are their so many problems with drugs? If the drugs are not the problem we must look else where surely.

Dope smokers enjoy and want to share there love of smoking a plant
Non users or past users want to make sure that the current smokers dont get away with the whole"smoking dope is good for you and the world would be a better place if everyone smoked" argument

I've never said drugs are good for you. Everything in this life has risks from heroin to real butter. I'm lumping all drugs into gether at the moment even though I don't think their all the same. I'm very pro weed, I've tried allot of drugs but weed is the only one I'll do on a regular bases. But I love the culture just as much as the drug it's been a great way to meet people all over the world, I've been introduced to all sorts of art because of cannabis culture.

[/QUOTE]

TheNog wrote: »

That's true but again the people who bring the weed into Ireland are more dangerous than drunks and stoners put together!!!

True, simple solution is...?

Gardai or the Courts do not turn people into criminals!! It is the person who possess drugs who make themselves into criminals and no one else. Everyone knows that drugs are illegal but yet they are afraid when caught that they could possibly have just ruined their future job and travel prospects over a little bit of hash.

I've been in front of a judge because of weed. I've had that person judge me simply on the fact I enjoy cannabis. She called me scum, greedy all sorts of names and assumptions where thrown my way dispite the fact I've never had any run in with the guards, I've never even hit any one outside of a school fight in 1st year. I have a good job, I'm told I don't have a bad bone in my body, yet I'm scum because I smoke weed for enjoyment.

The same day a drunk driving case and alcohol related asault came before her which she had allot of understanding for because, ah sure you where drunk we've all been there and it's ok.

BeerWolf

I'd say yes.

Other than the side effects they cause and health issues they do affect other people with your addiction.

Namely money.


People often lie and steal just to pay towards their addiction. Often with Violence...

cheridere

JC 2K3 wrote: »

. I actually reckon it'd be healthier to be doing a different drug every week, since too much of anything is bad for you and doing the same drug every weekend would also increase the risk of addiction. Alternating the recreational drugs one takes can only be a good thing.(As well as alternating between activities involving drugs and those which do not, which should be promoted a lot more)

you are nuts:rolleyes:

will start this diet this weekend

TheNog

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But what other problems would there be?

I've said this many times on here, making more drugs legal won't magically give people more time to be taking drugs, and it won't make people take drugs more often. Unless there's something much more unhealthy/problematic about doing pills one weekend, alcohol the next, weed the next, coke the next etc., as opposed to doing alcohol every weekend, then I don't see how there'd be any more problems than the current situation. I actually reckon it'd be healthier to be doing a different drug every week, since too much of anything is bad for you and doing the same drug every weekend would also increase the risk of addiction. Alternating the recreational drugs one takes can only be a good thing.(As well as alternating between activities involving drugs and those which do not, which should be promoted a lot more)

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The person who loses control while driving a car is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of driving. cars do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while flying in a plane is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of flying. planes do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while drinking alcohol is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of drinking. drinking does mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid

The person who loses control while drilling a hole in a wall is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of drilling holes. drilling holes does mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid



you can't ban something because a tiny minority of people who do that thing are badly affected by it. then you would have to ban everything

I think its fairly obvious that both of ye have only seen one side of drugs and I say you are lucky so far.:(

If ye really want to find out the fulle extent of drug abuse visit a drug rehab/addiction centre and see for yourselves.

ScumLord

TheNog wrote: »

I think its fairly obvious that both of ye have only seen one side of drugs and I say you are lucky so far.:(

If ye really want to find out the fulle extent of drug abuse visit a drug rehab/addiction centre and see for yourselves.

And while your at it visit a morgue and see the terrible affects life can have on people.

Sam Vimes

TheNog wrote: »

I think its fairly obvious that both of ye have only seen one side of drugs and I say you are lucky so far.:(

If ye really want to find out the fulle extent of drug abuse visit a drug rehab/addiction centre and see for yourselves.

I think its fairly obvious that you have only seen one side of driving and I say you are lucky so far.:(

If ye really want to find out the fulle extent of driving abuse visit a car accident site and see for yourself


yes some people are badly affected by drugs. but some people are badly affected by pretty much everything in existence.

JC 2K3

I don't think it would change my opinion on drugs. I mean, I understand exactly what addiction can do to people. But they've done this to themselves. If I found an addict with a messed up life who was well informed about drug they're addicted to prior to ever taking it, and got addicted despite using it sensibly and in moderation, and not using it simply out of boredom or as a crutch when something went wrong in their life, then I might be swayed to think that that particular drug mightn't be a good idea, but I'd also have to look at cases of sensible, well informed people who took that drug and weren't addicted. And in any case, I don't think I could ever accept prohibition as a sensible option to dealing with a dangerous drug I was opposed to taking, it just doesn't work.

TerrorFirmer

Not fundamentally wrong to take drugs in moderation (i.e not abuse); but it is wrong in the sense that it funds a worsening criminal existence in both the country and the world in general.

Sam Vimes

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Not fundamentally wrong to take drugs in moderation (i.e not abuse); but it is wrong in the sense that it funds a worsening criminal existence in both the country and the world in general.

solution to that problem: make them legal.

Virgil°

Sam Vimes wrote: »

solution to that problem: make them legal.

All well and good, but maybe stop taking them until such occurs?

Sam Vimes

Virgil° wrote: »

All well and good, but maybe stop taking them until such occurs?

i don't take them but i can't force everyone else to stop.

AngryBadger

To the people who keep banging on about how making drugs legal would lead to greater usage, there are already YOUNG TEENAGERS getting drugs on the school playground. If schoochildren, who should have the elast money, least access, and least opportunity to find drugs/dealers, can get access to drugs when they're illegal how can you honestly make a case that legalising them will lead to more use?

keen

Gardai or the Courts do not turn people into criminals!! It is the person who possess drugs who make themselves into criminals and no one else. Everyone knows that drugs are illegal but yet they are afraid when caught that they could possibly have just ruined their future job and travel prospects over a little bit of hash.

Taking people to court over " a little bit of hash " is a waste of police time and the courts time imo.

When you take some one to court over a small bit of hash do you feel good about what a great job your doing protecting the people of Ireland?

Virgil°

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i don't take them but i can't force everyone else to stop.

Ahh i didnt mean you specifically Sam, i just get sorta tired of hearing the regular drug takers hide behind the excuse of" Well if they were legal then i wouldnt be hurting anyone else" as they light up another joint feeling smugly justified. And i wouldnt FORCE anyone to stop taking them id just point out above fact to them.I've zero problems with moderate drug use if they grow their own or something alike.

Sam Vimes

Virgil° wrote: »

Ahh i didnt mean you specifically Sam, i just get sorta tired of hearing the regular drug takers hide behind the excuse of" Well if they were legal then i wouldnt be hurting anyone else" as they light up another joint feeling smugly justified. And i wouldnt FORCE anyone to stop taking them id just point out above fact to them.

the effect one person has on the criminal drugs trade is negligible. they're hurting people about the same amount as someone who contributes to global warming by driving a car.

things are supposed to be made illegal because doing said things hurts others. but the only reason drugs hurt others is because they're illegal.

doing things that can hurt yourself should not be illegal. for example, in countries where an 18 year old can choose to join the army and get shot in the head in a desert, i think they should also be free to choose to take drugs if they so wish

po0k

There is no right and wrong.
Only Profit and Loss.

AngryBadger

TheNog wrote: »

Enjoy what? make them feel better? the escape from reality?

How is this any different from alcohol/cigarettes, both of which are legal.

TheNog wrote: »

So what your saying is that countless people you know that take drugs and only 2 are messed up on drugs, that makes it acceptable for drugs to be consumed? What if we said that 1 out of 20 people ends up with a serious addiction to say cocaine is not bad going and nothing for us to worry about. Do you accept that? Collateral Damage?

And what about the numbers of people who runi themselves by abuse of alcohol? Why is it that you're only concerned about people who sue illegal substances? You fail to realise that legal does not equal moral.

TheNog wrote: »

I also note you don;t have a comment on funding drug gangs in your reply. Let me ask you would you buy a pirate dvd from a known Real IRA member? Your answer would probably be no 'cos you would realise that indirectly you are funding terrorism so what reasonable excuse has a person for buying drugs from a dealer.

What about the fact that the many people who sue illegal drugs responsibly in a bid to enhance their enjoyment of life are forced into a subculture of associated "criminality" because people like you think they shouldn't be free to choose how they indulge during their apsre time? What about the fact that the criminal status of these substances is the very reason they're peddled by criminals?

I realise Dudess already responded to these points with her usual flare, but I felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

token56

Personally I have never taken any drugs, that includes alcohol and smoking and never will. Do I think it is wrong for other people to use them, who cares ?. Its not like my opinion will change anyone else's. Its each persons choice to make, whether I think its a smart choice is irrelevant all I can do is what I think is right and not worry about what others do.

Virgil°

Sam Vimes wrote: »

the effect one person has on the criminal drugs trade is negligible. they're hurting people about the same amount as someone who contributes to global warming by driving a car.

Maybe, maybe not, im really not sure how one goes about quantifying this.

things are supposed to be made illegal because doing said things hurts others. but the only reason drugs hurt others is because they're illegal.

And the only way they can hurt people by being illegal is because people keep buying them. Its a cycle. But until the government or drug users who buy off dealers budge its always gonna be the same bad situation.Neither side is morally right imo.

doing things that can hurt yourself should not be illegal. for example, in countries where an 18 year old can choose to join the army and get shot in the head in a desert, i think they should also be free to choose to take drugs if they so wish

I agree with you on this about the hurting of oneself(not a good idea in my opinion "but if they so wish" as you say), but its not a great analogy you have there, you're assuming there that soldiers only ever GET shot and dont do any shooting?Alas thats a bit of a fud ,apologies.

AngryBadger

TheNog wrote: »

At one time drugs such as weed or 'soft drugs' could have been legalised in this country but more and more research finds that Marijuana has side effects in short and long term memory.

This is not accurate.

The prevailing opinion is that excessive use in teenage years (i.e. puberty when your brain/body is undergoing massive physiological change), may lead to long-term effects. While, in adults, chronic use can exacerbate psychological conditions they already have, any other effects in terms of short term memory, and reduced functional capacity are just that, SHORT TERM. Alcohol has very similar effects, but again that's legal, which in your view seems to make it ok.

EDIT: I will actually link to a document used by the irish government which outlines a lot of the above, but I'm in work right now...also I used this edit to correct my spelling mistakes

TheNog wrote: »

Drugs will never be legalised

Maybe you can use your magic crystal ball to get me next weeks lotto numbers while you're making uninformed statements about the future and positing them as facts. I need the cash for my drug mill you see

TheNog wrote: »

So at the end people will still buy drugs and the gangs will still make their profit. The only victims of this are the people who are addicted and the people who are caught and prosecuted.

In many instances people move onto harder drugs because dealers mix what they're selling with substances that alter the users response so that they crave something more. I'm not saying this accounts for 100 % of addiction in ireland, but I don't think you can dispute that it would be very hard for someone to become addicted to a substance they'd never been tempted/compelled to try. So if drugs were legalised it would actually reduce the level of addiction through the knock-on effect of decreasing the number of people in the "gateway drug" scenario.

It would also give the government a whole new batch of leisure products to tax so they would have millions more euro to piss into the wind.

Also it would mean product would be regulated, so it's composition would be standardised, and the rare deaths that do occur because of the uniquitous "bad batch" would be reduced dramatically.

These three benefits of legalising drug use are just off the top of my head, I haven't even mentioned the millions that would be saved by eliminating the costs of prosecuting people for possession, and the cost of keeping such people in jail.

So tell me exactly why you have such an issue with legalising drugs?

AngryBadger

TheNog wrote: »

Some people simply refuse to be responsible for their behaviour and this is why drugs are illegal.

Then by the same logic why isn't alcohol illegal?

Sam Vimes

by that logic why isn't every single thing in existence illegal?

AngryBadger

meditraitor wrote: »

As for the original question
Q-Is it wrong to take drugs
A-My head hurts thinking about this question because as usual the users(dope,yips,dust and gear-illegal) are heaping alcohol and cigarrettes into the argument to justify their own habit...If you break the question down
What do you mean by wrong?What do you mean by drugs?
then it becomes something that a 100000 line thesis might not cover
If I wanted to argue the positives of smoking weed this is the question I would ask?If I wanted to argue the negatives of smoking weed this is also the question I would ask?As for the usual crowd of dope smokers who continualy spout the same nonsence (from what I have seen the past 3 or 4 years on boards), just go and enjoy you habit and stop trying to argue that its ok to get stoned because water can kill as well if over used.All the similiar threads have run there course because both sides just get boredDope smokers enjoy and want to share there love of smoking a plant
Non users or past users want to make sure that the current smokers dont get away with the whole"smoking dope is good for you and the world would be a better place if everyone smoked" argument...It will never be legal to smoke dope, take pills, snort coke or do gear because Ireland is bad enough as it is with alcohol being legal without letting a whole new sort of problem flower by legalising other harmful substances...And the pro dopes are to stoned to put up a good fight..........

Mark

You used a whol load of words to say a whole load of nothing there.

Why not actually make some kind of informed, cogent statement instead of just getting ratty about threads you ahve a problem with, or the people who post in them.

here's a handy rule for you;

Nothing to contribute, then don't bother posting.

AngryBadger

Sam Vimes wrote: »

by that logic why isn't every single thing in existence illegal?

Indeed.

Sod'o swords

Only reason I'd say no to illegal drugs is because it fuels gangs, otherwise couldn't care less, wouldn't touch them myself though.

AngryBadger

Virgil° wrote: »

Ahh i didnt mean you specifically Sam, i just get sorta tired of hearing the regular drug takers hide behind the excuse of" Well if they were legal then i wouldnt be hurting anyone else" as they light up another joint feeling smugly justified. And i wouldnt FORCE anyone to stop taking them id just point out above fact to them.I've zero problems with moderate drug use if they grow their own or something alike.

So it's ok to infringe on some peoples civil liberties because other people are too unenlightened to put an end to a ridiculous legal situation?

EDIT: Also, it's illegal to "grow" drugs like marijuana. So you're basically saying people who use should do everything they can to get arrested so that when marijuana is finally legalised all the users will be in jail adn there'll be nobody left to smoke it....which emans you'll have it all to yourself....you craft devil, I've always been suspicious of you Birgil, with your wild ways!

Seriously tho, wtf man???

navin.r.johnson

It's not not wrong