Is it wrong to use drugs.

Kernel

Fremen wrote: »

Of course, then people join in and point out that it's not quite as simple as legal/illegal. People use valium recreationally, but it's a legal drug, assuming you have a prescription.

The divide between legal and illegal is pretty arbitrary, so it seems foolish to me to approve or disapprove of a drug based on its legality.

I doubt the OP had an agenda as such. A question like that is meant to stimulate discussion, rather than find a definitive answer.

Nah, it's the same old tired 'i tried my first spliff today and it's great' discussion that keeps cropping up here again and again and again, with the same arguments/points. I'll leave ye to this one lads.

J.S. Pill

land9 wrote: »

No.

If you want to know the secrets of the universe, try acid!

I don't think I've been quite the same since the second time I did acid

Secrets of the universe? No. A toad named Barnacle Bill and a gay soldier named Colonel camp, yes.

please ignore

Earthhorse

funk-you wrote: »

Why?

Well, from the point of view that I believe in Law and Order (not the TV show), any transgression of the law is wrong as it undermines the social contract on which it really relies. We can't just pick and choose which laws to follow no matter how wrong headed we believe them to be. You might be the best driver in the world but it's wrong for you to get behind the wheel of a car and drive on public roads if you don't have a license.

Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not claiming sainthood here, merely pointing out that from that point of view the behaviour is wrong (when it comes to illegal drugs).

briantwin wrote: »

The only difference is we know about the organized crime that drugs are paired with here because its splashed all over the herald am every day.

Dudess wrote: »

Yep. Kids working in Nepalese sweat-shops don't make page one of the red tops, the Mail and the Heddald and thus there's no moral outrage like there is over "da druggies".

Wait a minute though, if you know about the kids working in Nepalese sweat shops, and I do too, and others on this thread do, then the media did pay attention to it.

Sure, right now, drugs are grabbing the headlines, because the widespread use of cocaine and the gangland crime that come with it are new to us (and because local news sells better than global news), but to imply that people distinguish between the two only because they're ignornant of one and not the other is a little unfair.

yummycake

Didn't read the thread but I think drugs should be enjoyed with friends.
There are too many different types of drugs out there to categorize them into good or bad really.
Any drug is BAD for someone with an addictive personality.
I think pills, acid and weed are ''good'' Alcohol to me is ''bad''.
There should have been a DEPENDS option on that poll.

invincibleirish

Drugs are a lot of things, illegal, unhealthy, immoral. But drugs are a lot of fun, its why they are very very very popular.

How much fun are they?

Well look at it like this, the hassle of getting Weed for example is always annoying. everyone wants weed but no one wants to get caught with it.

But people still get it, smoke it and enjoy it! Everytime.

Sam Vimes

Kernel wrote: »

It always makes me chuckle when pro-drug lobbyists on boards and elsewhere seek to show a false argument in support of illegal drugs by lumping them in with drugs like caffeine, alcohol, nicotine etc.

OP the true intent of your post is obvious, and your question is so mind-numbingly over-simplistic that it's laughable.

what is so fundamentally different between an illegal drug and a legal one? they weren't always illegal. was it not wrong to take them before they were illegal? if i go to amsterdam, does doing hash stop being wrong?

Fremen

Earthhorse wrote: »

Well, from the point of view that I believe in Law and Order (not the TV show), any transgression of the law is wrong as it undermines the social contract on which it really relies. We can't just pick and choose which laws to follow no matter how wrong headed we believe them to be.

Wow. If that's what you believe, then your world-view and mine are very, very different. I will NEVER obey a law just because it's a law. I will only stick to those which are sensible. For example, I'm happy to pay tax, because tax money is used for a good purpose.

Laws are made by people like you and me, and people are fallible. Laws can be unjust. Rosa Parks broke the law in the United States, and kick-started the black civil rights movement in doing so.

Dragan

invincibleirish wrote: »

Drugs are a lot of things, illegal, unhealthy, immoral. But drugs are a lot of fun, its why they are very very very popular.

While i will gladly agree that drugs are both unhealthy to a degree and illegal where the law makes them so i must disagree with immoral.

Morality is merely a point of perspective and is to open an issue to individual interpretation for me.

ScumLord

The question is simple no doubt. Is using a drug for enjoyment wrong.

I think that there are many out there that just don't like the idea of themselfs or other people using a drug for recreational use. They just don't understand why someone would want to rely on a drug for enjoyment and I'm kind of pointing out that these people have no problem with alcohol which is a drug. Probably the worst drug going as you need to use a large amount of it to get the desired result.

I'm not as such saying these people are wrong but they're not right.

I've had many great experiences on drugs. I'd even go as far as to say cannabis turned me from a self loathing emo type into a person who loves life and see's the greatness of life in general.

The law is just a set of rules that trys to look out for the best interests of the citizen. Just because something is law doesn't make it right. They're are many laws in China that would go against our beliefs in the west we wouldn't think they're right just because it's the law.

AngryBadger

rb_ie wrote: »

I don't drink much these days, rarely ever get drunk. Much, much prefer to get stoned and would take weed over alcohol any day of the week.

+1

Look if you don't want to do drugs then don't. Far as I'm concerned the fact that alcohol is legal, and yet so many other substances are illegal is a perfect example of the retarded double standards that persist in this country, and the fact that so many muppets want to the government to hold their hand through every minute.

Government should be a largely administrative affair, primarily facilitating interaction on a mass scale.

I can decide for myself if I want to engage in substance abuse thanks.

AngryBadger

Kernel wrote: »

The false argument that people are in favour of all drugs, when in reality, people are in favour of legal drugs such as alcohol, coffee...

Who are these "people"? I don't see anything false about an argument that represents a huge cross-section of society.

Jay P

Beer = good
Acid = Okay
Cocaine, fags, hash, heroin = Bad


Simple as.

Overheal

Jay P wrote: »

Beer = good
Acid = Okay
Cocaine, fags, hash, heroin = Bad


Simple as.

:rolleyes:

JC 2K3

Earthhorse wrote: »

Well, from the point of view that I believe in Law and Order (not the TV show), any transgression of the law is wrong as it undermines the social contract on which it really relies.

But look at China, hardcore Muslim countries, a lot of African countries etc. Think of all the unjust regimes that were in place in the world in the past. And even think of examples of countries which embrace human rights and have quite liberal laws, but which fall short in some areas, such as banning gay marriage in Ireland, the restriction of the rights of women and black people in the US in the recent past etc. The law and the social contract on which it relies is never perfect and must be constantly questioned and challenged.

Dragan

Overheal wrote: »

:rolleyes:

+1

I've never +1'd a smilie before but there is a first time for everything.

invincibleirish

Dragan wrote: »

While i will gladly agree that drugs are both unhealthy to a degree and illegal where the law makes them so i must disagree with immoral.

Morality is merely a point of perspective and is to open an issue to individual interpretation for me.

i was really just generalising when i said immoral, i agree with your synopsis. however i imagine lots of people do find drugs immoral.

Tha Gopher

Kernel wrote: »

The false argument that people are in favour of all drugs, when in reality, people are in favour of legal drugs such as alcohol, coffee... whatever, we've danced this dance many times Mordeth!

Indeed. The whole alcohol vs illegal drugs arguement is a joke.

In my entire life, Ive known one smoker who only smoked and didnt drink.

And I didnt even know him. A girl I knew told me she got picked up at a gig by a friends boyfriend late night. When I asked was he not drunk, she said he quit drinking when he was 20 because he was out of control, and made up for it by smoking up half a Moroccan farm per year.

Actually, Ive known of two. A mate of mine worked with a guy who every weekend went out and lost the plot on a few bags of coke and a few yips, without a drop of drink. The reason being, he told my mate, is that he doesnt drink like most of us. Vast majorty of us, by the time bar is nearing closing we are like "jaysus, im bollixed". He explained that if he has one pint, he will litreally drink until he passes out. He did it for years, thats why he cant have a pint anymore, and makes up for it on the illegals which he says he can easily limit himself to once a week. Whereas if he drank on a Friday he would have the thirst to carry on for days without sleep.

There. That is the one and only. Every other smoker Ive ever known lamps drink into him/her the same as anyone else. The overhwelming majority of them (me included) have taken harder stuff numerous times.

Wow. And that is tonghts news. The anti alcohol and anti gateway arguements out the window in 30 seconds of your reading time.

And now, heres Gerry with the weather forecast.

dirtyharry1971

Drugs are fine for most people some people don't know when to stop but the same can be said for alcohol (wait a minute thats a drug too :eek:) I've overindulged in both at times when I was younger maybe even had family friends worried but learnt from my mistakes and slowed down do still dabble in everything now and again love going to select clubbing events from time to time and getting chomped n dance the night away (pills) but have got a good focus on career and life in general so don't see any problem with what I'm doing

orestes

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Indeed. The whole alcohol vs illegal drugs arguement is a joke.

In my entire life, Ive known one smoker who only smoked and didnt drink.

And I didnt even know him. A girl I knew told me she got picked up at a gig by a friends boyfriend late night. When I asked was he not drunk, she said he quit drinking when he was 20 because he was out of control, and made up for it by smoking up half a Moroccan farm per year.

Actually, Ive known of two. A mate of mine worked with a guy who every weekend went out and lost the plot on a few bags of coke and a few yips, without a drop of drink. The reason being, he told my mate, is that he doesnt drink like most of us. Vast majorty of us, by the time bar is nearing closing we are like "jaysus, im bollixed". He explained that if he has one pint, he will litreally drink until he passes out. He did it for years, thats why he cant have a pint anymore, and makes up for it on the illegals which he says he can easily limit himself to once a week. Whereas if he drank on a Friday he would have the thirst to carry on for days without sleep.

There. That is the one and only. Every other smoker Ive ever known lamps drink into him/her the same as anyone else. The overhwelming majority of them (me included) have taken harder stuff numerous times.

Wow. And that is tonghts news. The anti alcohol and anti gateway arguements out the window in 30 seconds of your reading time.

And now, heres Gerry with the weather forecast.

They both sound kinda like alcoholics to me. The first one not so much, but definitely the second fella. Not exactly a great arguement for the use of drugs since it sounds like he is pretty heavily addicted to substance abuse, whether it's coke or alcohol seems the secondary issue to me

That said, I still think all drugs should be legal, heroin and cocaine included

Fremen

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Wow. And that is tonghts news. The anti alcohol and anti gateway arguements out the window in 30 seconds of your reading time.

And now, heres Gerry with the weather forecast.

Sorry mate, but anecdotal evidence about one hardcore druggie doesn't quite cut it when you're trying to prove or disprove the gateway argument. What about the millions of people who took drugs and didn't become messed-up dope fiends?

Dudess

Oh god, the gateway drug argument pisses me off. I smoke the odd bit of doob (as in, at a house party every few months) and do you know how much ecstasy, cocaine, speed and/or acid I've ever taken? None!

Kernel

dirtyharry1971 wrote: »

I've overindulged in both at times when I was younger maybe even had family friends worried but learnt from my mistakes and slowed down do still dabble in everything now and again love going to select clubbing events from time to time and getting chomped n dance the night away (pills) but have got a good focus on career and life in general so don't see any problem with what I'm doing

*Looks at watch*

Oh, time for me to point out that the illegal drugs you do fund criminal gangs who cause chaos all over the country.

Cue the 'then legalise drugs' argument.

Kernel

Dudess wrote: »

Oh god, the gateway drug argument pisses me off. I smoke the odd bit of doob (as in, at a house party every few months) and do you know how much ecstasy, cocaine, speed and/or acid I've ever taken? None!

The odd bit of doob may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way. Not to mention the link between schizophrenia and cannabis. However, I'm actually in favour of decriminalising cannabis - although it's not something I would choose for myself.

Dudess

As long as there's Coca Cola, sweatshops and coffee plantations (among others) the "funding criminal gangs" argument is useless (imo). "Oh but they're not illegal" - so what? They're still grossly unethical.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the first drug that all heroin addicts started off on was caffeine, not cannabis.

Kernel

Dudess wrote: »

As long as there's Coca Cola, sweatshops and coffee plantations (among others) the "funding criminal gangs" argument is useless (imo). "Oh but they're not illegal" - so what? They're still grossly unethical.

I'm no fan of corporate capitalism, or it's exploitation of people, but Coca Cola never turned flat complexes into smack complexes dudess!

Sofaspud

Kernel wrote: »

The odd bit of doob may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of bread may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of tea may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of cake may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of oxygen may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

Let's ban bread, tea, cake and air! Too many Heroin addicts have had them in their system, there must be a link!

Kernel

Sofaspud wrote: »

The odd bit of bread may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of tea may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of cake may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

The odd bit of oxygen may be alright for most people, but there's plenty of hard core HIV heroin addicts who started the same way.

Let's ban bread, tea, cake and air! Too many Heroin addicts have had them in their system, there must be a link!

Yeah.




Problem is, none of those things you mentioned are drugs.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

caffeine isn't a drug?

Fremen

Kernel wrote: »

Yeah.




Problem is, none of those things you mentioned are drugs.

Right, if you're going to use the gateway argument, don't just make assumptions about some hypothetical junky. Let's see some studies in peer-reviewed journals please.

I think sofaspud's point was that correlation and causation are not the same thing.