Is it wrong to use drugs.

TheNog

Dudess wrote: »

One very simple answer: they enjoy it.

Enjoy what? make them feel better? the escape from reality?

Dudess wrote: »

Not among the countless people I know who take/have taken drugs. I can think of one guy who's messed up all right - he takes cocaine before going to bed, he's likely to have a problem. Most people don't do stuff like that with drugs. One other guy is a nutcase too but according to his family he was messed up before he ever went near drugs.

So what your saying is that countless people you know that take drugs and only 2 are messed up on drugs, that makes it acceptable for drugs to be consumed? What if we said that 1 out of 20 people ends up with a serious addiction to say cocaine is not bad going and nothing for us to worry about. Do you accept that? Collateral Damage?

I also note you don;t have a comment on funding drug gangs in your reply. Let me ask you would you buy a pirate dvd from a known Real IRA member? Your answer would probably be no 'cos you would realise that indirectly you are funding terrorism so what reasonable excuse has a person for buying drugs from a dealer.

Dudess wrote: »

It depends on the amount consumed.

Certainly in the case of weed but cocaine, heroin and crack cocaine are highly addictive and can lead to a destructive lifestyle.

Dudess

TheNog wrote: »

Enjoy what? make them feel better? the escape from reality?

Yep.

So what your saying is that countless people you know that take drugs and only 2 are messed up on drugs, that makes it acceptable for drugs to be consumed? What if we said that 1 out of 20 people ends up with a serious addiction to say cocaine is not bad going and nothing for us to worry about. Do you accept that? Collateral Damage?

No, what I'm saying is excessive drug use will of course lead to problems (ditto excessive alcohol consumption) but not all people use drugs excessively. In the cases where people over-do their drug consumption, it's their stupidity and irresponsibility/addictive personalities/lack of self control that are to blame, not the drugs alone.

I also note you don;t have a comment on funding drug gangs in your reply. Let me ask you would you buy a pirate dvd from a known Real IRA member? Your answer would probably be no 'cos you would realise that indirectly you are funding terrorism so what reasonable excuse has a person for buying drugs from a dealer.

Oh I've commented on this argument many times, and my answer always is: it's very hard to be ethical when purchasing anything - clothing, coffee, chocolate, Coca-Cola. The purchase of these products is serving unscrupulous, ruthless interests also. Please don't tell me that those are legal though, because that's a different argument. We're talking ethics here.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I found a cigarette bud in my hotel room this evening.. it hadn't been smoked... to me it would suggest someone was rolling a joint in my room while I was out...

Shout I report this to the hotel management or let the stoners go free?

Obviously you should. Make sure Benny Hill music is playing while the hotel staff run down the street in pursuit of these hooligans...

BJC

invincibleirish wrote: »

Join the struggle against Boards oppression

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055202432

I think I might just do that...

invincibleirish

Drugs are a matter of personal choice. However as ive found out in trying to push for a Drugs forum those who dont take drugs always find a reason not to let us discuss drugs.

tis a mighty parable for how officialdom threats those who use drugs in everyday life.

Dont like drugs? fine

Dont like people who use drugs? fine

Do people who use anything care what you think? probably not. Stop pushing your fascism on us narc!

TheNog

Dudess wrote: »

No, what I'm saying is excessive drug use will of course lead to problems (ditto excessive alcohol consumption) but not all people use drugs excessively. In the cases where people over-do their drug consumption, it's their stupidity and irresponsibility that's to blame, not the drugs alone.

Alcohol certainly is one that causes serious problems up and down the country. In some cases and they are usually the most hardlined cases we have people who suffer from some sort of undiagnosed mental illness and they take drugs due. It could be said these people have dimished capacity to make the correct decision. Then there are other people who have serious personal issues and use drugs for escape. Last of all we have the rest of the people who take drugs just for the hell of it. In my opinion these people are idiots.

Dudess wrote: »

Oh I've commented on this argument many times, and my answer always is: it's very hard to be ethical when purchasing anything - clothing, coffee, chocolate, Coca-Cola. The purchase of these products is serving unscrupulous, ruthless interests also. Please don't tell me that those are legal though, because that's a different argument. We're talking ethics here.

You can hardly compare buying coffee to buying drugs can you? On one plane you have companies keeping coffee growers in poverty to protect their profits and on a very different plane are gangs selling drugs to fund their lifestyle and murder other dealers. It isn't very ethical to take drugs especially as the effects are happening right on our doorstep.

Dudess

I'm not saying it's not unethical to purchase drugs but a lot of other unncessary items, while legal, are also unethical.

And if drugs were legalised, there wouldn't be criminal gangs making a profit off them.

invincibleirish

The hypocrisy of using the argument that buying drugs is wrong because of ethical concerns is surreal.

We live in 21st century Ireland. We are very much part of western capitalism and all that goes with it. Exploitation makes the world go round unfortunately.

Besides i know where my Weed comes from. no Colombian gangsters, no IRA heads, no Scumbags, just a bunch of hippies living the dream. Do i feel guilty? nope.

TheNog

invincibleirish wrote: »

Drugs are a matter of personal choice. However as ive found out in trying to push for a Drugs forum those who dont take drugs always find a reason not to let us discuss drugs.

I agree usually drugs is a matter of personal choice and I also agree that the more information there is available on drugs the better.

invincibleirish wrote: »

tis a mighty parable for how officialdom threats those who use drugs in everyday life.

I have only read the last 2-3 pages of this thread and didn't see anyone make a threat. Can you show me where it is?

invincibleirish wrote: »

Dont like drugs? fine

Dont like people who use drugs? fine

You're right I'd don't agree with drugs but I do have some friends who take drugs occasionally. I mightn't agree with what they do but they are still my friends. I also know a few people who are addicted to drugs and I find them fairly sound people too.

invincibleirish wrote: »

Do people who use anything care what you think? probably not. Stop pushing your fascism on us narc!

You brought up the subject of the Drugs Forum where I presume information is/will be available on all types of drug so maybe someone here would be interested to hear some experiences I have had in dealing with people who have drugs on them or taken drugs. I am not pushing anything here but merely viocing my opinion only.

TheNog

Dudess wrote: »

And if drugs were legalised, there wouldn't be criminal gangs making a profit off them.

At one time drugs such as weed or 'soft drugs' could have been legalised in this country but more and more research finds that Marijuana has side effects in short and long term memory.

Drugs will never be legalised except maybe for medicinal purpose and if I remember correctly the Irish government initiated a study into its possible uses. Whether that comes to fruitition or not I don't know.

So at the end people will still buy drugs and the gangs will still make their profit. The only victims of this are the people who are addicted and the people who are caught and prosecuted.

invincibleirish

TheNog wrote: »

I agree usually drugs is a matter of personal choice and I also agree that the more information there is available on drugs the better.



I have only read the last 2-3 pages of this thread and didn't see anyone make a threat. Can you show me where it is?



You're right I'd don't agree with drugs but I do have some friends who take drugs occasionally. I mightn't agree with what they do but they are still my friends. I also know a few people who are addicted to drugs and I find them fairly sound people too.



You brought up the subject of the Drugs Forum where I presume information is/will be available on all types of drug so maybe someone here would be interested to hear some experiences I have had in dealing with people who have drugs on them or taken drugs. I am not pushing anything here but merely viocing my opinion only.

Dont mind me im just venting, the powers that be wont allow a Drugs forum. I respect anyone who doesnt want anything to do with drugs.

I love Weed, and ive had some great times on the more chemical side of things. But im not stupid. Any substance will fcuk you up if you do nothing else but partake in the lifestyle.

A lot of people get involved in things like Weed, Coke & Pills primarily (IMO). A % will take it to the extreme, but its more a case of a flawed addictive personality that characterises abusers no matter what substance they take.

I think the more righteous types on boards would be shocked at how much Weed for example is smoked. all i can say without sounding like an internet bluffer is ive had spliffs with one or too pretty well known public people in my time. On top of that sometimes it seems everyone is smoking Weed.
from the very young to the very old.

Possession laws as they stand are nonsense. Cannabis on its own should be downgraded. any excuse is used to scaremonger (look at the UK moving Cannabis to a class B yesterday on back of some questionable mental health issues, madness). Boards is a mere microcosm of that.

board om

TheNog wrote: »

Not necessarily so. If the person took their own life in the family home and were found by the family then news getting out to the media can be slim.

this is actually correct. someone i know died a couple of years ago from MDMA powder and it was never on the news or in the paper. the family didnt want the death being associated with drugs, which is completely understandable, so they kept it as low key as possible.

TheNog wrote: »

Don't know about LSD but there was a case I believe in around the Bray area where a young man took a snow ball ( I think ) and thought there was rats in his head. He went beserk and managed to pull one of his eyes out the socket. It took 7 guards to restrain him.

that was in bray or shankhill alright. there were a load of dodgy E's going around Dublin that were making people trip out really badly. there was some young lad at a house party and he thought there was rats in his head or something like that and he took a pliers to himself. apparrently he did pull one of his eyes out and did some nasty damage to himself. I didnt know about the 7 guards having to restrain him but it wouldnt surprise me. there was a bit of coverage of it in the media at the time but i am surprised there wasnt a lot more. scary stuff.

BraziliaNZ

I absolutely love getting drunk with friends. I probably enjoy it more than anything. As for drugs - I do them now and again, but I think frequent usage can get messy.

Insanesomeone

Meh! wrote: »

Yes I do actually know someone who died from LSD but thanks for assuming I'm lying just because you don't agree with my opinions.

Yes I have heard of alcoholics and I'm sorry about your friends. In fact my neighbour was stabbed two days ago for insulting someone when he was drunk. He was an alcoholic. No, I'm not suggesting that alcohol does not effect some peoples minds but I am suggesting that no one will die of alcohol the first time they have a drink. I think someone mentioned that E can be taken in moderation? Well that is my reply to that.

I'm not ''on'' anything and I don't care to be attacked by people for stating my opinions.

And if it bothers people that much I will delete it. It is nice to know how open-minded people are though.

To the guy who logged on to comment on my lack of grammer.....oh please, get a life.

I'm not attacking you or anything, just giving you the legitimate other side to your opinion. Sorrry if that offended you

Earthhorse

Dudess wrote: »

They're a bunch of idiots - most people aren't.

You have far too much faith in people.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I found a cigarette bud in my hotel room this evening.. it hadn't been smoked... to me it would suggest someone was rolling a joint in my room while I was out...

Shout I report this to the hotel management or let the stoners go free?

Sounds to me like someone's trying to fit you up. If I were you I'd open up the window and fly to freedom. Latterly, this will be painted by the media as another example of drug fuelled behaviour.

invincibleirish wrote: »

However as ive found out in trying to push for a Drugs forum those who dont take drugs always find a reason not to let us discuss drugs.

invincibleirish wrote: »

Dont mind me im just venting, the powers that be wont allow a Drugs forum.

No one's stopping you registering your own domain, paying for hosting and administering your own forum. Why not do this? It isn't that expensive nowadays and you don't need to be a technical genius to do it either.

JC 2K3

TheNog wrote: »

When I hear someone say 'drugs are not bad', I know that person has not seen first hand what drugs can truely do.

You can't just put all drugs into the same category and universally say that drugs can cause great harm to people. Some drugs are not addictive. Some drugs have few, if any adverse side effects. Every drug has to be looked at on a case by case basis. So while it's stupid to say "drugs are not bad", it's also very stupid to say "drugs are bad and mess up people's lives".

TheNog wrote: »

Last of all we have the rest of the people who take drugs just for the hell of it. In my opinion these people are idiots.

Why? If they've done enough research to know how to take a certain drug, what dosage to take, the risks involved, possible side effects etc., how are they idiots? They're just having fun/experiencing something they want to experience.

TheNog wrote: »

On one plane you have companies keeping coffee growers in poverty to protect their profits and on a very different plane are gangs selling drugs to fund their lifestyle and murder other dealers.

I'm not sure I understand you. Both of those situations are extremely comparable. Both are industries committing atrocities for the sake of profits...

TheNog wrote: »

It isn't very ethical to take drugs especially as the effects are happening right on our doorstep.

Take a look at it from the other point of view, i.e. it isn't very ethical to keep drugs illegal because that causes all these gangland shootings etc. And since when does the proximity to an atrocity increse the level of that atrocity??

TheNog wrote: »

At one time drugs such as weed or 'soft drugs' could have been legalised in this country but more and more research finds that Marijuana has side effects in short and long term memory.

Emm... I don't recall reading any study in recent times discussing weed and memory loss. And anyway, our laws are not based on scientific fact or the advice of scientists or doctors. The advice given by the British Government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs regarding the reclassification of cannabis to a class B drug a few days ago is a prime example of this. These weren't a group of pro-weed stoners, these were respected scientists that the government themselves employed, and they decided almost unanimously that cannabis should be kept as a class C drug. However, this advice was completely ignored by Gordon Brown and co.

And this is only one case of a government ignoring the advice of scientists. Put simply, drug laws are not at all based on science or research.

Earthhorse

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Emm... I don't recall reading any study in recent times discussing weed and memory loss.

Heh.

JC 2K3

Walked right into that one, didn't I....

Then again, I'm not a weed user, so....

TheNog

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You can't just put all drugs into the same category and universally say that drugs can cause great harm to people. Some drugs are not addictive. Some drugs have few, if any adverse side effects. Every drug has to be looked at on a case by case basis. So while it's stupid to say "drugs are not bad", it's also very stupid to say "drugs are bad and mess up people's lives".

Different drugs have different effects on people. I can say with confidence that taking one drug can turn a decent person into a raving lunatic while it can have the opposite effect on another person. The person who loses control is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs. Drugs do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Why? If they've done enough research to know how to take a certain drug, what dosage to take, the risks involved, possible side effects etc., how are they idiots? They're just having fun/experiencing something they want to experience.

Again using the 1 in twenty or 1 in a 100 where a person loses control and puts themselves and others at risk and taking into consideration that in reality people have no idea other elements are put into drugs to increase profits. I put this into a similar comparision to playing chicken with a speeding train. There are thousands upon thousands of people in IReland who suffer from some sort mental illness and drugs only compounds that illness to the point of inflicting pain onto others to suicide.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand you. Both of those situations are extremely comparable. Both are industries committing atrocities for the sake of profits...

Although I not condoning raping a nation's people of just rewards, I certainly don't condone murder and putting people in fear of their lives. This is a stark reality we live in our country now.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Take a look at it from the other point of view, i.e. it isn't very ethical to keep drugs illegal because that causes all these gangland shootings etc. And since when does the proximity to an atrocity increse the level of that atrocity??

Because it is more visible and we should be more aware of the atrocity and its causes. Lets face it, if the drugs culture wasn't so big in Ireland there would't half the murders linked to drugs.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Emm... I don't recall reading any study in recent times discussing weed and memory loss. And anyway, our laws are not based on scientific fact or the advice of scientists or doctors. The advice given by the British Government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs regarding the reclassification of cannabis to a class B drug a few days ago is a prime example of this. These weren't a group of pro-weed stoners, these were respected scientists that the government themselves employed, and they decided almost unanimously that cannabis should be kept as a class C drug. However, this advice was completely ignored by Gordon Brown and co.

And this is only one case of a government ignoring the advice of scientists. Put simply, drug laws are not at all based on science or research.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/Marijuana.html

yummycake

TheNog wrote: »

I can say with confidence that taking one drug can turn a decent person into a raving lunatic while it can have the opposite effect on another person. The person who loses control is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs. Drugs do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid.

Same can be said for alcohol. I know plenty of decent people who turn into raving lunatics after drink.

Caoimhín

yummycake wrote: »

Same can be said for alcohol. I know plenty of decent people who turn into raving lunatics after drink.

I am one of those people.

TheNog

yummycake wrote: »

Same can be said for alcohol. I know plenty of decent people who turn into raving lunatics after drink.

Exactly. I will be working this weekend on nights and dealing with very drunk people. In the past I have been hit with a golf club, seen the back door of a patrol car almost kicked off the hinges by a drunken eejit, attended a domestic (in an upmarket housing estate) where a drunken husband beat his wife in front of his terrified kids and arrested a man for drunk driving who was 4 times over the legal limit and when his kids came into the station to collect, were laughing about it till I told them he could be facing a fine of up to €5,000 and/or time in prison. Needless to say they stopped laughing fairly quick

JC 2K3

TheNog wrote: »

I can say with confidence that taking one drug can turn a decent person into a raving lunatic while it can have the opposite effect on another person.

No it can't. I'm sick and tired of the "drugs affect people differently" as a euphamism for "we haven't any idea what any drug will do to anybody". Specific drugs can only affect different people differently to a certain extent. I mean sleeping pills aren't going to make anyone agressive and stimlated and methamphetamine isn't going to make anyone relaxed and chiled out. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, which means someone might be more comfortable with chilling out and having long discussions, whereas someone else might be inclined to start a fight without thinking of the consequences. The affect the drug has is the same, it's the mindset and situation of the person taking the drug can provoke a negative outsome. This is why there is a concept which exists in the drug taking community called "Set and Setting", which basically means that one should think about what state of mind they're in, where they're going to do a drug and why they want to do the drug.

TheNog wrote: »

I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs. Drugs do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid.

No, people mess up their own lives. If they choose to do nothing but take a lot of drugs, that's their fault.

And as a matter of interest, would you be in favour of banning food containing peanuts? Studies show that about 1% of people have a peanut allergy and would be at serious risk of death if they were to ingest them. We should ban peanut containing foods to protect them, no?

TheNog wrote: »

Because it is more visible and we should be more aware of the atrocity and its causes. Lets face it, if the drugs culture wasn't so big in Ireland there would't half the murders linked to drugs.

If drugs were legal there wouldn't be any murders linked to drugs!

TheNog wrote: »

I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs. Drugs do mess up people's lives, that's fact not stupid.

No, people mess up their own lives. If they choose to do nothing but take a lot of drugs, that's their fault.

And as a matter of interest, would you be in favour of banning food containing peanuts? Studies show that about 1% of people have a peanut allergy and would be at serious risk of death if they were to ingest them. We should ban peanut containing foods to protect them, no?

TheNog wrote: »

http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/Marijuana.html

NIDA are notorious for being a biased, scaremongering, extremely anti-drugs group who are overtly negative.

If you want to understand exactly what has been discovered about marijuana use, you have to read a lot of studies from a broad range of sources. You'll find those studies funded by pro-drugs groups are pro-marijuana and vice-versa for anti-drugs groups. When you filter through all the bias, you'll see that they haven't directly linked any mental illness to marijuana use, but have found a correlative link, which means that marijuana users are more likely to have mental illness, but not that the marijuana itself causes this mental illness. To me, it makes perfect sense that overuse of drugs would be a symptom of someone who is mentally ill, someone who is trying to escape from their problems. It's kinda like saying that people who take anti depressants are 90% more likely to be depressed than those who do not.

Also, look into why marijuana (or any drug really) was banned in the first place, it was entirely political and not in the slightest about health. And you have to ask yourself, if the US government used to use "Reefer Madness" as a basis for keping marijuana illegal, can you really trust anything they say about drugs? And our drug laws are derived from the US.

ScumLord

TheNog wrote: »

At one time drugs such as weed or 'soft drugs' could have been legalised in this country but more and more research finds that Marijuana has side effects in short and long term memory.

Yup that's one of the side effects alright. It's temporary and acceptable. Nothing you put in your body is safe, everything can be seen to have a harmful affect on your long term health it's up to the individual what risks their willing to take.

TheNog wrote: »

Different drugs have different effects on people. I can say with confidence that taking one drug can turn a decent person into a raving lunatic while it can have the opposite effect on another person. The person who loses control is maybe in the region of one in twenty or it could even be one in hundred. I would prefer to try to protect that one person rather than believe it is ok 'cos 99 other people are getting a good experience out of taking drugs.

Really? :eek: You enjoy the nanny state telling you what you can and can't do based on the mistakes of others? Billy boy racer down the road loses control of his car acting stupid so the rest of us shouldn't be allowed to drive because of him? Farmer pat gets drunk and shots his dog for making fun of him, the rest of us shouldn't be allowed alcohol or sarcastic dogs? If people can't handle the drug then they need to be responsible enough to not use them and not be dragging the rest of us down with them.


If you do something stupid it's your own problem not mine. It's one thing to look out for our neighbours, which I'm all for, I think people who can't handle drugs should have everyone's full support in dealing with that problem but that doesn't mean the rest of us should be put in nappies.

TheNog

Ok you make some very good points there and I can understand where you are coming from. I have met plenty of people who are under the influence of drink and/or drugs and most are sound and just chillin out. These are in the majority.

Unfortunately I have met my fair share of total lunatics on drink and/or drugs who simply are a serious danger to themselves and others. These same people have been arrested for inflicting serious injury in fights, or seriously hurt themselves through attempted suicides or driven their car. These are in the minority.

My opinions are based on what I have witnessed only and to be honest I sometimes wish other people could see it too. Other times the scenes I have been too are too awful to stomach.

meditraitor

conanm wrote: »

Ok, here I go:

On the term "gateway drug"... It is possibly the most irritating thing associated with the conversation on recreational drug use. It is traditionally thrown out by people either sitting behind a news desk, school teachers glancing over the topic in 3rd year CSPE class, or by people who've bought into what's been said by the previous two. The fact that it's so regularly used seems to imply that there are certain substances which are demonstrably, scientifically proven as being the starting point for future hard drug addicts.

Once and once only:

There. Are. No. Such. Things. As. Gateway. Drugs.

First off... The only supporting information ever seen is some survey done of 100 recovering drug addicts or of 50 college students which proves absolutely nothing other than that certain people know how to waste time and money or ridiculous tests. I can't count the amount of tools that have brought up one of these surveys or tiny 4 line snips from magazines into the debate. People need to start separating what they see on the cover of MetroAM from scientific fact and reality. I'm not even kidding.

Second. Anecdotal evidence == no.

Not interested in your friend who "only smoked a joint once and then turned to"- No. Irrelevant.

Not interested in the person who "started smoking at 16, got into E at 18, became a heroin addict at 19 and is now DEAD." Sorry, your friend was an asshole and so are you.

I don't want to hear you spout that sort of crap in the same way you don't want to hear me mentioning the numerous examples of people going STRAIGHT ONTO HARD DRUGS.. .. ... FROM NOTHING!!!

It's a shock, I know. But, everything drug-related isn't a measurable downward spiral. Ok that'll do on "gateway drugs". I don't have enough fingers to count people I know who have only ever smoked cannabis and nothing else.

As far as Bill Hicks is concerned. I ****ing love Bill Hicks and I thought he so funny and right and a bit preachy but he always hit the nail right on the head. 3 years of college later and I grimace every time someone launches into a 50 minute performance of every well known bit the man ever did. Bill Hicks is no longer obscure, a cult figure, or new, so please, pipe down and develop some of your own opinions instead of rattling of rhetoric and other people's standup material.

Quoting Bill Hicks and making a George Bush joke are now on the same intellectual rung of the socio-political joke ladder. Sure it's funny when he did it. But it's not funny when you do it. And it's not funny that your opinions on the subject are derived from a few pieces of standup from a dead comedian. If I understand his jokes and his ideals, he was against people being sheep and unintelligent/ill-informed. It's hardly a fitting tribute to a great comedian to have a fan following of morons wearing out his one liners.

That last paragraph felt great to say. I'd compare the absolute feeling of relief I got from writing that to the first sip of a tall beer after a long day's work, or the feeling of relaxation mid-way through a long, strong spliff. Oh baby!

Now, for the focus:

The question posed by the OP isn't valid. I would hope that most people agree that what we choose to with out own time on Earth and our own bodies is our own choice. If you feel like getting your hands on a plant that is harvested off this Earth, ingesting its smoke to temporarily alter your state of consciousness temporarily, then go right ahead. It's your decision, your body, your time. Morality doesn't enter the equation. Morality relates to the conscience, and if you feel guilty for ingesting something it speaks more about your upbringing and your personal (religous?) beliefs than what the law should read.

The objections raised thus far have included (but may not be limited to):

- Obtaining an illegal substance shows disrespect for the law.
- Buying illegal substances funds criminality
- Gateway drug bs

Counterarguments:

- Legalize it
- Drug users should be left alone if they do no harm to anyone else
- "It's not a gateway drug."

So, effectively, bog standard, cliché drugs discussion. What I'd love to see is someone on the opposing side (i.e. Drugs are bad side) with a 3 figure IQ making a decent case as opposed to doing the traditional thing and scratching the surface, hopping along onto the usual, worn out points and arriving neatly at the inevitable stalemate just in time for the personal abuse/lock.

On cannabis: I think most people I know at least know someone who either 1) grows it, 2) brings in some of it from abroad or 3) has it delivered off the internet.

Situation is grand as far as I'm concerned. I'm not funding scumbags, I'm not influencing anyone with my actions and I'm enjoying life. Any of your business? No. Immoral? No. That whole "immoral" thing is a bit Catholic anyway... I bet the OP feels guilty after masturbation or sex too. Loosen up ffs.

On other hallucinogenic drugs: Those interested in truly experiencing completely altered states of perception with personal goals such as exploring the nature of reality and other pyschonauticesque aims are usually able to find salvia, mushrooms, acid etc. through friends or online. These are the people who have a completely different perception and generally have more perspective (IMO) than those who don't have their "third eye squeegeed." (couldn't resist after that big long Bill Hick's paragraph)

Also, stupid people need to not talk about drugs. It gives the intelligent users a bad rep.

Obviously you dont take your own advise

ScumLord

TheNog wrote: »

Ok you make some very good points there and I can understand where you are coming from. I have met plenty of people who are under the influence of drink and/or drugs and most are sound and just chillin out. These are in the majority.

Unfortunately I have met my fair share of total lunatics on drink and/or drugs who simply are a serious danger to themselves and others. These same people have been arrested for inflicting serious injury in fights, or seriously hurt themselves through attempted suicides or driven their car. These are in the minority.

My opinions are based on what I have witnessed only and to be honest I sometimes wish other people could see it too. Other times the scenes I have been too are too awful to stomach.

I've witnessed the same, although I have to say in my experience drunks are allot more dangerous than stonners especially but even those on pills don't cause the kind of aggro they do on drink.

Having drugs illegal just pushes those people that can't handle them underground so to speak. What their doing is so wrong in society's eyes, admitting it and getting help is a major step. I think there's better ways of handling drug use than turning people into criminals for dabbling and ostrasizing the poor minority that help the most help.

TheNog

ScumLord wrote: »

Really? :eek: You enjoy the nanny state telling you what you can and can't do based on the mistakes of others?

I make up my own mind on issues and not rely on any nanny state to dictate to me what I should and should not believe in. There is nothing wrong with learning from the mistakes of others.

ScumLord wrote: »

If people can't handle the drug then they need to be responsible enough to not use them and not be dragging the rest of us down with them.

You have just answered the problem here. Some people simply refuse to be responsible for their behaviour and this is why drugs are illegal.

Look drug laws in this couontry are general in nature. The government simply cannot create a law where they say to one person that you can take drugs 'cos you are responsible when under the influence and then say to the next person it is illegal for you to take drugs 'cos you are not responsible when under the influence. This is why drug laws ban possession for everyone.

It is the same for drunk driving. There are guidelines to what you could drink without being over the limit but so many factors have to be taken into account the guidelines are pretty much useless. I don't know if I got my point across correctly there.

meditraitor

As for the original question
Q-Is it wrong to take drugs
A-My head hurts thinking about this question because as usual the users(dope,yips,dust and gear-illegal) are heaping alcohol and cigarrettes into the argument to justify their own habit.

If you break the question down
What do you mean by wrong?
What do you mean by drugs?
then it becomes something that a 100000 line thesis might not cover

If I wanted to argue the positives of smoking weed this is the question I would ask?
If I wanted to argue the negatives of smoking weed this is also the question I would ask?

As for the usual crowd of dope smokers who continualy spout the same nonsence (from what I have seen the past 3 or 4 years on boards), just go and enjoy you habit and stop trying to argue that its ok to get stoned because water can kill as well if over used.

All the similiar threads have run there course because both sides just get bored

Dope smokers enjoy and want to share there love of smoking a plant
Non users or past users want to make sure that the current smokers dont get away with the whole"smoking dope is good for you and the world would be a better place if everyone smoked" argument

It will never be legal to smoke dope, take pills, snort coke or do gear because Ireland is bad enough as it is with alcohol being legal without letting a whole new sort of problem flower by legalising other harmful substances.

And the pro dopes are to stoned to put up a good fight..........

Mark

TheNog

ScumLord wrote: »

I've witnessed the same, although I have to say in my experience drunks are allot more dangerous than stonners especially but even those on pills don't cause the kind of aggro they do on drink.

That's true but again the people who bring the weed into Ireland are more dangerous than drunks and stoners put together!!!

ScumLord wrote: »

Having drugs illegal just pushes those people that can't handle them underground so to speak. What their doing is so wrong in society's eyes, admitting it and getting help is a major step. I think there's better ways of handling drug use than turning people into criminals for dabbling and ostrasizing the poor minority that help the most help.

Yes making drugs does push people underground but help is available by organisations who are not affiliated with the guards so these people can make attempts to get clean and get their lives back on track. It is a major step in the right direction and one that usually cannot be taken with support from family and friends. I would rather ensure someone was seriously seeking help to overcome their addiction rather than to see them being prosecuted.

Gardai or the Courts do not turn people into criminals!! It is the person who possess drugs who make themselves into criminals and no one else. Everyone knows that drugs are illegal but yet they are afraid when caught that they could possibly have just ruined their future job and travel prospects over a little bit of hash.

meditraitor

ScumLord wrote: »

I've witnessed the same, although I have to say in my experience drunks are allot more dangerous than stonners especially but even those on pills don't cause the kind of aggro they do on drink.

Having drugs illegal just pushes those people that can't handle them underground so to speak. What their doing is so wrong in society's eyes, admitting it and getting help is a major step. I think there's better ways of handling drug use than turning people into criminals for dabbling and ostrasizing the poor minority that help the most help.

Making murder illegal had the same effect (just thought id join you in the stupid comparison category)