Avram Grant

Bubs101

He keeps getting ridiculous amount of criticism, Chelsea fans chanting that he doesn't know what he is doing and he sure had massive boots to fill but am I the only Chelsea fan who thinks that he has done a great job. When Mourinho left we weren't in great shape and I fully expected this to be a transitional season. Yet Avram got us to a cup final, the semi finals of the Champions League, a defeat to Barnsley where the players just did not perform and we're still in with a chance of winning the League with 3 games to go. If we injure Ronaldo while beating them at the Bridge the league is ours to lose.

Could somebody with no managerial talent really have got a team that loved it's manager to pick themselves up and get this far. For some who consider him a puppet for Abramovich, it's worth noting that Sheva has barely had a look in. Also, since his arrival Ballack has been great. As shown by the team of the year picks, we have had no stand out performers this year (bar J.Cole but even then people had him as 50 50 with Bentley) yet he has marshalled the team to be stronger than it's individual parts. Does he deserve more credit and a second season?

jameshayes

He's done ok to date - it wont be till next year that people will see what he is capable of..

I just cant take the man seriously tho - just keep thinking of this fella every time I see him!

Kevster

Agreed - He's done fine so far. I think the media and fans just don't like a manager whom they don't fully understand. The same goes for Rafa Benitez: He has received huge critiscism because his managerial style is one people just don't understand. He has done quite well too, however.

Unearthly

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

He's done a great job and I completely agree the criticism he gets is unbelievable. It's almost like the Real Madrid chairman disease has hit the fans whereby they don't like a manager unless he wins every cup there is and performs a standup comedy show before and after a game.

His team don't play the greatest football ever but they do get results. End of story imo

Smegball

Apart from the really big games, I think Grant has done a great job of steadying the ship.
If, and it's a big if, he is still at Chelsea for next summer, I will be fascinated to see who he signs, seeing as he was brought in to bring exciting football.

leninbenjamin

clearly some of the players despise Grant and don't want to work with him, i think in spite of this he's done a remarkable job. but he is getting found out in the really big games. If he gets the chance to build up his own team and get a few more years under his belt i'd say he could be a real force, but he's not going to get that chance at Chelsea at any rate. and he's definitely 'failed' considering his mandate was to get them playing good football.

Kevster

... ...'clearly'? According to who exactly - The media?

Unearthly

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

I keep hearing he is a lucky manager, scraping results here and there but there comes a time when you got to hold your hands up and say it isn't lucky anymore.

Then there is the big games match, yawn. Like he didn't beat Arsenal or get a draw at Anfield in the champions League like so many called godlike managers Mourinho, Capello etc that get wanked over didn't

Just admit it folks, you don't like him cause he has no interesting personality for intervviews etc so is easy to pick on

CHD

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

Look hes doing a good job.Chelsea arent where there supposed to be.We were meant to crash and burn.We would be playin the exact same football under Mourinho and we were playin the exact same football under him at the start of the season.

He's doing a good job.Not many managers could step straight in after Mourinho and totally turn it around...........Grant did.Yes we have lost crucial games that may have brought us at least the treble, yes we play boring football(that still works!!) but his record this season is top class.We can still win the CL and EPL does that not speak for itself?????

PHB

Atari Jaguar

He's done an average job. Chelsea squad is amazing. He has them playing averagely for their abilities. Doesn't mean that they still can't win the double, they have amazing players.

Sometimes great teams win in spite of poor managers.

Unearthly

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

PHB wrote: »

He's done an average job. Chelsea squad is amazing. He has them playing averagely for their abilities. Doesn't mean that they still can't win the double, they have amazing players.

Sometimes great teams win in spite of poor managers.

but where do you draw the line?

Mourinho who is bummed and wanked over by every football fan did basically the same as Grant did this season but has a lot more respect than Grant.

PHB

Atari Jaguar

Because he turned it around into a league winning squad after Raneira couldn't. Mourinho did much better in those first two seasons than Grant has done this season.

Unearthly

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

PHB wrote: »

Because he turned it around into a league winning squad after Raneira couldn't. Mourinho did much better in those first two seasons than Grant has done this season.

Mourinho had the advantage of moulding a squad together in the summer. He spent huge amounts of money on Drogba, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago and Kezman, as well as having the advantage of players such as Robben and Cech who Ranieri signed but never got the chance to manage.

Grant Joined after the transfer window and no manager has ever managed a title challenge after joining a club a few games after the season began.

Xavi6

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

How any can say Grant hasn't done a fantastic job is ridiculous.

Took over from the most popular manager in the club's history at a time when the team was struggling to keep in touch with Arsenal and United. Since the turn of the year Chelsea are unbeaten in the Premiership, still have an outside chance of winning the league and hold the upper hand in a Champions League semi final. I don't see what more could be asked of him.

PHB

Atari Jaguar

That's true, but I just don't think Chelseas performances have warrented the place they've gotten.

They've grinded out nearly every result in the league this year. That's been ok cause United kept dropping stupid points, Boro , but United have let them into the race rather than them keeping up. In the CL they've had easy draws up to tonight, and just had a bit of help from Riise to put them in a good position.

I'm not saying he's a crap manager of anything, I just don't think he's near Mourinhos level, or Fergies or Wengers or Rafas. I think people under-estimate just how good a squad Chelsea have. If Kalou played for United or Arsenal the entire premiership would be talking about him non-stop, but people tend not to see how good the players really are, even the 3rd choice players.

Dont be at yourself

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

He's doing an excellent job, if you ask me. Considering the presence of Mourinho and the amount of respect he had for the players, that Grant has come in and hit the ground running is hugely commendable. They've had to deal with some pretty significant injuries this year, but he's managed to get the best out of the players stepping in.

His record against the top 7 or 8 sides in the league is poor, but there is also the argument that had Maureen not dropped points to the likes of Aston Villa earlier in the season, they'd be top right now.

If he gets sacked, it will be a farce. Ranieri and Mourinho were given the heave-ho for finishing second, it'd be an awful reflection on the club for it to happen a 3rd time. What's more disgraceful is the abuse he's getting from Chelsea's own 'fans'.

CHD

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

He's doing an excellent job, if you ask me. What's more disgraceful is the abuse he's getting from Chelsea's own 'fans'.

Couldn't agree more

And im a Chelsea fan.

Mr.Nice Guy

Atari Jaguar

I don't think he's been anything 'special' (forgive the pun). He has an amazingly talented squad and it seems he's not the one calling the shots. Bust-ups, players saying they wouldn't have joined if he'd been there initially, factions wielding control of team talks etc. Hardly the sign of a great manager. Doesn't look like much of a motivator and has made poor tactical decisions in the past (the Carling Cup final most notably)

Decent manager but that's about it. I reckon he'll be gone by the summer's end.

CHD

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't think he's been anything 'special' (forgive the pun). He has an amazingly talented squad and it seems he's not the one calling the shots. Bust-ups, players saying they wouldn't have joined if he'd been there initially, factions wielding control of team talks etc. Hardly the sign of a great manager. Doesn't look like much of a motivator and has made poor tactical decisions in the past (the Carling Cup final most notably)

Decent manager but that's about it. I reckon he'll be gone by the summer's end.

That same squad was playin worse football under ''the special one''.

he deserves a summer to shape his own squad.

Dont be at yourself

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

There were always going to be bust-ups and superstars throwing toys out of their prams once Mourinho left, given his relationship with the players. That Grant has managed to bring them close to winning both the league and champions league surely speaks volumes of his management skills.

players saying they wouldn't have joined if he'd been there initially

Ben Haim, I presume you refer to. Those splinters in his arse from sitting on the bench probably prompted that. Despite being a fellow country man, Grant has not shown favoritism. And despite everyone accusing him of being Roman's puppet, he hasn't shown much time for Sheva either. Grant is very much his own man, and while he may not be as likeable as Maureen, he is just as headstrong.

iregk

Have to say I'm somewhat undecided on him although I am leaning in his favour. A lot of people saying that the style of play hasn't changed under him. In fairness he said this at the start that he would not change anything until the summer so I think we owe him that. Lets see how he copes on saturday and next wednesday.

The one thing I've been critical of is the tactical changes. Against Ramos in the Carling Cup he was out classed. A lot of people said Fergie outclassed him but in fairness he was only in the job 48 hours. Against Arsenal I was in the bridge singing you don't know what your doing however those substitutions turned and won the game. Against pool last night I didn't understand the move either but from then on it was Chelsea so maybe I'm wrong and he is good and deserves a full season.

oobydooby

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

His tactics last night against Liverpool were spot on and that's a big game. His substitutions worked two weeks ago as well. In fact the only big games he's messed up were Barnsley! and MU, but Chelsea was in turmoil that week 'cos Mourinho chose his departure time a bit spitefully IMO. I'm going, here's 3 points for our only rivals.

Also, what's with the phrase "jew magic"? It doesn't read well:mad:

Mitch Connor

How were his tactics spot on? they were damned lukcy not to lose by two or three goals. Drogba was horribly isolated for the entire night, their right side was weak and ripped up by Babble/Torres. They created few really good chances. What was spot on about that performance?

The result, in the end, was a great result, but it was down to luck. Also - should have brought Anelka on for Cole instead of Kalou.

redspider

I dont think its possible to judge a manager completely with what will be just 3/4 of a season. I think Grant may not be a likeable character, his demeanor is drab, etc, but there is no shadow of a doubt that he took a poor-performing Chelsea team under Mourinho and has put in a very strong league challenge, and now a CL challenge. The facts and point tally speak for themselves. If Chelsea didnt have such a bad start under Mourinho, Chelsea would now be in pole position to win the league. So much for the 'special' one, or should he be renamed the 'over-rated one'.

Chelsea are grinding out results, but thats the style of the players to a large extent, physical, methodical, etc, with a strong defence. Also, there is nothing wrong with that approach per se, even if it may not be the most entertaining, as they ground out results in both of their league-winning title seasons.

I would delay any judgements of Grant until he has shaped his own team, which will take a couple of seasons. Of course he may not get the time to do so. I dont think he is brilliant. Mourinho wasnt either. If Abramovich wants an entertaining team or a CL winning team, its hard to tell. At the moment, he is closer to the latter. It will take a lot of personel changes to get the former, and then success is far from guaranteed. It will take a lot of money also.


> No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

Isnt this a bit derogatory? I think it should be edited. Religion of a person has nothing to do with their competence. Maybe he's an aethiest for all we know.

Redspider

oobydooby

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

Tauren wrote: »

How were his tactics spot on? they were damned lukcy not to lose by two or three goals. Drogba was horribly isolated for the entire night, their right side was weak and ripped up by Babble/Torres. They created few really good chances. What was spot on about that performance?

It's been done on the Pool thread, but he nullified Liverpool's game. Gerrard and Torres had very little influence all night. Agreed that Babel did very well and that's the best I've seen him play. In the first 20 minutes they silenced the crowd, smothered Liverpool in midfield and had dangerous looking breaks. As the game went on, Drogba became isolated but Cole, Lampard and Drogba could all have scored if their touches were better. Alonso, Mash or Gerrard never got comfortable on the ball and we only got a bit of space out wide with Kuyt and Babel, not through the middle with Gerrard and Torres.

I thought his team was very good. I know they have brilliant individuals but he set them up well. We're the team in better form and he came away with a (lucky) result in Anfield. We could argue about his switches but both Kalou and Anelka had an impact. Credit where it's due.

Mitch Connor

Abramovic, and Grant himself were at the core of the problems Mourinho had. If Grant hadn't been brought in against the wishes of the Mourinho and his staff maybe there would have been less problems at the start of the season.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

That's true, but I just don't think Chelseas performances have warrented the place they've gotten.

They've grinded out nearly every result in the league this year.

What the fúck?

Seriously.

Because they grind out results, they don't warrant the position they are in?

Most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

What, only free-flowing attack attack attack football is worthy now, is it?

Get a grip will you.

Chelsea DESERVE to be in the position they are in. Just as United do.

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

I went with "talented manager" but what I meant was "unfair scapegoat". I feel sorry for the guy. He got his tactics wrong last night though, but once again got out of jail. And that shows me that at the very least he has instilled a resolve in his team.

Pigman II

Atari Jaguar

He's better than Brian Kerr anyway.

Royale with Cheese

But not as good as Stan.

Charlie

Isn't there a stat around that shows, had Mourinho had the same win percentage in his games this season, as Grant has had, then Chelsea would be top of the table. That speaks volumes to me of the Job Grant has performed so far.

Loomis

Atari Jaguar

Deleted User wrote: »

I went with "talented manager" but what I meant was "unfair scapegoat". I feel sorry for the guy. He got his tactics wrong last night though, but once again got out of jail. And that shows me that at the very least he has instilled a resolve in his team.

The resolve was instilled by Mourinho and it's dwindling rapidly

_blank_

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Isn't there a stat around that shows, had Mourinho had the same win percentage in his games this season, as Grant has had, then Chelsea would be top of the table. That speaks volumes to me of the Job Grant has performed so far.

Seemingly that doesn't matter to people who have bought into the hype.

Grant is doing a very good job, Chelsea have more than a slight chance of winning a PL/CL double this season.

With a team of players he didn't buy.

With constant media pressure saying he is not liked by the players.

With being undermined from all quarters, apart from those who matter, the owner of Chelsea.

Mitch Connor

DesF wrote: »

Seemingly that doesn't matter to people who have bought into the hype.

Grant is doing a very good job, Chelsea have more than a slight chance of winning a PL/CL double this season.

With a team of players he didn't buy.

With constant media pressure saying he is not liked by the players.

With being undermined from all quarters, apart from those who matter, the owner of Chelsea.

With the best squad of players in the league, by far. Having taken over from a manager that was undermined by the one person who did matter - the owner, with no small help from Grant himself.

Pigman II

Atari Jaguar

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

But not as good as Stan.

This has not been proven yet!

The only way we could determine this is so is if were both managers in competition againsts each other, perhaps with Stan back as Ireland manager and Grant returning to Israel.

More likely however would be that Grant stays on at Chelsea and Stan gets offered the Man United job when Sir Alex Ferguson dies.

_blank_

Tauren wrote: »

With the best squad of players in the league, by far.

I'd argue that tbh.

As for the undermining.

yeah, Abramovic wanted Jose gone. It's his call.

Now, do people really think he would install a clown just because they are mates?

Is RA an idiot? Would he sacrifice success just to give his mate a gig?

iregk

DesF how dare you counter act the Chelsea bashing with some truthful and common sense posts?

I completely agree with you and that comment about Chelsea not deserving to be there as they don't play 70's style Dutch football is just pure tripe.

PHB

Atari Jaguar

Look, there's playing well and then grinding out results when you have to.
And there's playing poorly consistantly and getting results.
I'm not talking about style of football, I'm talking about how well they are playing.
Their last 6 matches against Everton, Wigan, City, Boro, Arsenal, Spurs.
The only match they won convincingly was City. The rest were all grinded out with a bit of luck, like Alves missing 2 easy easy chances against them.

Chelsea are doing the latter. They've rode their luck something fierce to get to this point in the league.

That's why every once in a while, Chelsea lose their games against ****e, because they've been playing ****e, and lose to Barnsley and Fenerbache.

It's why in most of the big games this year, Grant has messed up. To say he did well last night is silly.
They can still win the league, no doubt about that, but they will have been the most undeserving winners I've ever seen.

CHD

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

PHB wrote: »

Look, there's playing well and then grinding out results when you have to.
And there's playing poorly consistantly and getting results.
I'm not talking about style of football, I'm talking about how well they are playing.
Their last 6 matches against Everton, Wigan, City, Boro, Arsenal, Spurs.
The only match they won convincingly was City. The rest were all grinded out with a bit of luck, like Alves missing 2 easy easy chances against them.

Chelsea are doing the latter. They've rode their luck something fierce to get to this point in the league.

That's why every once in a while, Chelsea lose their games against ****e, because they've been playing ****e, and lose to Barnsley and Fenerbache.

It's why in most of the big games this year, Grant has messed up. To say he did well last night is silly.
They can still win the league, no doubt about that, but they will have been the most undeserving winners I've ever seen.

You just dont like Chelsea....

PHB

Atari Jaguar

Nope

I don't like Liverpool or Arsenal either, but I'm willing to give Arsenal some credit.

I think it's one of the greatest crimes in the history of football that Ambrovomich put millions of pounds into a club, and they produce a team that can barely string two passes together.
The team he could have put together could have been the greatest football side in existance, instead he put together a physical mechanical team, that while Mourinho made slightly entertaining, Grant has made incredibly boring, despite their immense technical talents.

Still, that's why I hate them, not why I think they have been grinding out results like theres no tomorrow.

PHB

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

PHB wrote: »

Look, there's playing well and then grinding out results when you have to.
And there's playing poorly consistantly and getting results.
I'm not talking about style of football, I'm talking about how well they are playing.
Their last 6 matches against Everton, Wigan, City, Boro, Arsenal, Spurs.
The only match they won convincingly was City. The rest were all grinded out with a bit of luck, like Alves missing 2 easy easy chances against them.

Chelsea are doing the latter. They've rode their luck something fierce to get to this point in the league.

That's why every once in a while, Chelsea lose their games against ****e, because they've been playing ****e, and lose to Barnsley and Fenerbache.

It's why in most of the big games this year, Grant has messed up. To say he did well last night is silly.
They can still win the league, no doubt about that, but they will have been the most undeserving winners I've ever seen.

In fairness playing poorly and winning is a sign of champeens

leninbenjamin

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Ben Haim, I presume you refer to. Those splinters in his arse from sitting on the bench probably prompted that. Despite being a fellow country man, Grant has not shown favoritism. And despite everyone accusing him of being Roman's puppet, he hasn't shown much time for Sheva either. Grant is very much his own man, and while he may not be as likeable as Maureen, he is just as headstrong.

Malouda has said similar as well (basically the day Grant was appointed he was trying to engineer a way out imo). Oh and Frank Lampard has said somestrange things as well, he's clearly been trying to engineer a move away, the nature of the press coverage he has received suggests this. in fact looking at the body language after a match its clear that most of the team don't have the same respect for Grant as say Utd and Arsenal have for Ferguson and Wenger. some of the players completely blank him at times.

_blank_

It's all about results.

Record books don't show

Chelsea 1 - 0 Whoever (Lampard;deflection;played shíte, didn't deserve it)
Chelsea 2 - 0 Whoever (Drogba;Arsed one in, Essien;Deflected Shot)

Grant and his team are getting RESULTS. Football, at the end of the day, is all about results and trophies. Who cares how they are won.

Were you, PHB, complaining when United won a string of games 1-0 with Cantona scoring the majority of them, in the mid-90s?

Doubt it.

gustavo

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

He's getting very unfairly treated by those dopes on RTE anyway . Last night they were going on about how he's a bad manager and all that crap , I don't know what they are basing this on , certainly not on his results so far , I hope he manages to win the CL and the EPL

PHB

Atari Jaguar

Were you, PHB, complaining when United won a string of games 1-0 with Cantona scoring the majority of them, in the mid-90s?

I was 10.

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness playing poorly and winning is a sign of champeens

I agree. But playing poorly and still winning is a sign of champions. Consistantly playing poorly isn't. It's not like Chelsea are up and down, and when they are down they are winning. They are nearly always down. They have just kept grinding out the results, due to a lot of good fortune.

Grant and his team are getting RESULTS. Football, at the end of the day, is all about results and trophies. Who cares how they are won.

I do But this is a different argument. Football is more than results and trophies. That's why people constantly complain about diving. People it violates their idea of what is a good football game.

selpher

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

I think hes done well so far, considering he had to get a team not happy about Jose's exit playing again. Plus hes had no Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Malouda, Ballack and Drogba for large clumps of the season, some times all at once, plus the ACN meant he could'nt field his strongest 11 untill mid Feb. And he's hardly gonna get them playing angel like football between then and now.
Yeah he's inexpierienced but would Zola get this much abuse and personal attacks if he replaced Jose this season and achieved the same results? I think not.

selpher

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

selpher wrote: »

I think hes done well so far, considering he had to get a team not happy about Jose's exit playing again. Plus hes had no Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Malouda, Ballack and Drogba for large clumps of the season, some times all at once, plus the ACN meant he could'nt field his strongest 11 untill mid Feb. And he's hardly gonna get them playing angel like football between then and now.
Yeah he's inexpierienced but would Zola get this much abuse and personal attacks if he replaced Jose this season and achieved the same results? I think not.

Plus Zola wouldnt get abuse solely based on his looks.

Mad_Max

No amount of jew magic can hide his lack of talent

The options are a bit limiting. I don't think he's "talented" as say Ferguson, Wenger or Jose was. But i do think he's doing a great job under severe pressure there. Not only has he to handle roman but the players themselves.

At the likes of united and liverpool to a lesser extent players seem willing to accept rotation and not playing that much whereas he has to contend with Ballack, Anelka, Lampard etc not being happy on the bench.

SCULLY

When he took over I wrote off the season and yet here we are with 3 games to go still in the league(just!) and doing well in the Champion league. Still not sure of his tatical ability but bearing in mind all the early season upheaval , injuries and Africian cup disruptions he's not doing too badly. He's obviously not as charasmatic as Jose but i don't particularily miss the Chelsea Fc soap opera that dominated the back pages when Jose was in charge (still gutted he left though).

Still waiting for the flowing football we were promised but to be fair I think Grant should be judged on next years team which will include his summer purchases.