Animals that are found in Britain but not in Ireland

Alun

Prompted by one or two other threads, I was wondering whether there was a list of common animals that can be found in Britain that aren't found in Ireland?

I know the obvious ones like snakes and moles, but I'm aware that there are some differences in the case of small rodents, e.g. mice, voles, shrews etc. which apparently has a knock-on effect on the prevalence of certain species of raptors here vs. Britain.

There's also more complicated ones that hinge on incorrect naming, such as the whole stoat vs. weasel thing.

So, is there a comprehensive guide anywhere, along with an explanation of how this came about, i.e. movement of animals during the existence of the land bridge between Britain and Ireland, plain old extinction or hunting to extinction?

myjugsarehuge

Alun wrote: »

There's also more complicated ones that hinge on incorrect naming, such as the whole stoat vs. weasel thing.

That is a problem, even with common animals/birds. Most people round here insist on calling rooks crows, jackdaws anything crow shaped is a crow. One friend was amazed when I told her that what she called crows were in fact ravens! The raven was being mobbed by hoodie crows but she hadn't noticed the size difference.

I would be interested in finding out why there were no woodpeckers in Ireland. Were they ever here? I think some lesser spotteds have been introduced near Wicklow, not entirely sure.

Alun

myjugsarehuge wrote: »

I would be interested in finding out why there were no woodpeckers in Ireland. Were they ever here? I think some lesser spotteds have been introduced near Wicklow, not entirely sure.

My bird book (The Complete Guide to Ireland's Birds) says they were once resident here, but are now "a rare vagrant" usually from N. Europe. No mention of why they died out, but presumably due to habitat loss.

Anyway, birds are more of a special case of what I was after since they can get here reasonably easily should they so wish and assuming the habitat and suitable food is here, whereas I was more thinking of mammals and reptiles that were either never here or were here once and died out for whatever reason.

BryanL

Ireland has stoats but not weasels.
England has both stoats and weasels,they are different animals
Bryan

Alun

BryanL wrote: »

Ireland has stoats but not weasels.
England has both stoats and weasels, they are different animals

I know that I was just using them as an example of how even though some people might claim that a particular animal (such as a weasel) might exist in both Britain (not just England!) and Ireland, they might be mistaken due to confusion over naming.

boneless

A number of species have never been found in the record which should have made it over the land bridge after the ice. There is one train of thought, in archaeology admittedly, that the ice and glaciers receded slower on this side so the animals were precluded by climate. However, moles are found in Scotland, which would have had the same climatic conditions around 10 to 12,000 years ago. So it is thought the channel between the islands filled up quicker than expected so the mammals made it to Scotland over land but not to Ireland due to the sea.

MooseJam

what about bears, there are still some left in Scotland, none here though I'm afraid

Nerin

MooseJam wrote: »

what about bears, there are still some left in Scotland, none here though I'm afraid

still bears in scotland? i didnt know that, thats pretty cool.
ive seen wild pigs when i was very young up at a fox cover.

Roen

Bears in Scotland? There may be hairy homosexual men there but I don't think the ones I'm thinking of live there.

Alun

Roen wrote: »

Bears in Scotland? There may be hairy homosexual men there but I don't think the ones I'm thinking of live there.

ROFL Go on, admit it, you Google'd "bears in scotland" didn't you

Roen

Well I certainly didn't have it bookmarked!

Camac Hibs

Do Wildcats exist in Ireland?

Alun

Camac Hibs wrote: »

Do Wildcats exist in Ireland?

Don't think so. They have them in Scotland though.

Speaking of Scottish mammals, am I right to say we don't have polecats here?

myjugsarehuge

No polecats but we do have pine martins apparently although I haven't seen one sadly, would love to.

No common toads either but Natterjacks in very localised areas.

gerky

We do indeed have pine martin and they are a lovely animal although their quite shy about humans and with very good reason.
I'm actually surprised their not extinct from all the persecution they have had put upon them, its really amazing some peoples ignorance towards them.
As it is, through habitat loss and persecution their last stronghold is west of Shannon.

MooseJam

I've heard of Pine Martins but forgot what they look like, had to look it up on google

Alun

MooseJam wrote: »

I've heard of Pine Martins but forgot what they look like, had to look it up on google

They're considered a real pest in certain parts of Germany where they're prevalent as they have a predilection for crawling up into the warm engine compartments of cars, and chewing on electrical cables and rubber hoses.

You can get special Marder (German for Pine Marten) repellent systems for your car, and if you live in an area where they're common it's a good idea to check whether your car insurance covers damage by them.

I lived in Germany for a few years, and friend of mine who lived out in the country had several "run-ins" with these otherwise cute looking little vandals (or rather his car did!).

myjugsarehuge

Aren't they called stone martins or something else? These German ladies were telling me once about the "weasels" that eat your car engine, I thought they were absolutely mad but no, its true.

Alun

myjugsarehuge wrote: »

Aren't they called stone martins or something else? These German ladies were telling me once about the "weasels" that eat your car engine, I thought they were absolutely mad but no, its true.

Yes, you're right, after a bit of Googling it would appear its only the Stone Martens (Steinmarder) that have a taste for car parts, and the Pine Martens (Baummarder) leave them alone. The Germans mostly just refer to them as Marder, and I just assumed it was Pine Martens they meant.

leopardus

The 'Handbook of British Mammals' has covers all mammal species found in Ireland and Britain, including cetaceans.
A quick list.
Insectivores U.K.(Ireland with *):

Hedgehog*
Mole
Common shrew
Millet's shrew (Jersey only)
Pygmy shrew*
Water shrew
Lesser white-toothed shrew
Greater white-toothed shrew*

Rodents

Red squirrel*
Grey squirrel*
Hazel Dormouse
Edible dormouse
Bank vole*
Field vole
Orkney and guernsey voles
Water vole
Harvest mouse
Wood mouse*
Yellow-necked mouse
House mouse*
Common rat*
Ship rat* (Lambay island only)

lagomorphs

Brown Hare* (Found throughout U.K. but only recently introduced to Ireland and isolated to parts of Ulster)
Mountain Hare* (found throughout Ireland but restricted in U.K. to Scotland)
Rabbit*

Carnivores

Fox*
Badger*
American mink*
Pine marten*
Otter*
Stoat*
Weasel
Feral Ferret* (in Co. Monaghan)
Polecat

Alun

Thanks Leopardus, just what I was looking for! Great first post!

Do you have a reference for that book (author, isbn etc.?) that'd be great.

The one that jumps out of that list that isn't present in Ireland is the dormouse.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Beavers are being reintroduced to Scotland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7158210.stm

Non-native white-toothed shrew has recently been found here (but not in the UK). It's bigger than the native pygmy shrew and has been driving down the cost of shrew labour, and stealing the local shrews' jobs and wimmins.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080428/sc_afp/irelandanimalsenvironment

leopardus

The greater white-toothed shrew isn't found on mainland U.K. but is found on some of the offshore islands Guernsey, Alderney and Herm.

The Eurasian beaver is indeed originally native to the U.K. and there are some captive beavers in the U.K. in semi-natural enviornments, a reintroduction scheme is being talked about; but it hasn't been authorized yet though.
Canadian beavers have escaped from zoological collections in the U.K. on a number of occasions and were free ranging for some time.

wild boar (feral animals escaped from farms, now present in Dorset, Kent and Herefordshire)
Reeves muntjac (recently recorded in Ireland if I remeber correctly?)
Red deer*
Sika deer*
Fallow deer*
Roe deer (were present in Ireland from 1860'6- early 20th Century)
Chinese water deer

The book is available from 'The Mammal Society' (in the U.K.) it's expensive (£70) but really worth it if you have an interest in mammals. It's edited by Derek Yalden and S.Harris.http://www.abdn.ac.uk/mammal/publics.shtml

Roen

Can you confirm about the Scottish bears Leopardus?

leopardus

Wildcats (Felis sylvestris sylvestris) can't be found in Ireland but can be found in the Scottish highlands. Hybridization with domestic cats is a big problem. As far as I can remeber the domestic cat is derived from a subspecies of Felis sylvestris found in the middle East where cats were first domesticated (Felis sylvestris lybica?).
Pine marten appear to be recovering and expanding their range, which had been severly restricted due to human persecution. They managed to hold on in the Burren and a few other isolated spots. There were some relocated to bolster populations in other areas (Killareny N.P.) and they have naturaly spread and are now found over a lot of the country.
Bears were extirpated (became locally 'extinct') from the U.K. in the 10th Century. As with Wolves (extinct in the 18th Century in Ireland and U.K.)they were eliminated because of the threat they posed to lifestock.
This is interesting, it deals with difference in mammalian fauna between U.K. and mainland Europe.
http://fauna.dipbsf.uninsubria.it/atit/PDF/Volume8(1-2)/8(1-2)_7.pdf

Tea drinker

gerky wrote: »

We do indeed have pine martin and they are a lovely animal although their quite shy about humans and with very good reason.
I'm actually surprised their not extinct from all the persecution they have had put upon them, its really amazing some peoples ignorance towards them.
As it is, through habitat loss and persecution their last stronghold is west of Shannon.

heard of some in Sligo....

gerky

Tea drinker wrote: »

heard of some in Sligo....

Yea theres good spots with suitable habitat in Sligo for them.

BryanL

i think habitat, rather than any present persecution is the main problem for pine martins.

also i think it's easier to refer to britain or ireland rather than the u.k., ireland and britain when discussing wildlife, since the "uk" includes the north east of Ireland?

for example "Brown Hare* (Found throughout U.K. but only recently introduced to Ireland and isolated to parts of Ulster)
Mountain Hare* (found throughout Ireland but restricted in U.K. to Scotland)

makes little sense?
also more recently the Irish Hare, has been shown to be geneticaly distinct from the british mountain Hare

leopardus

It would indeed make things much clearer to use 'Britain' instead of the U.K. to clarify things.
Although genetically distinct, the mountain hare in Ireland is only considered a subspecies (Lepus timidus hibernicus). I'm sure it would however constitute an evolutionary significant unit for conservation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

leopardus wrote: »

It would indeed make things much clearer to use 'Britain' instead of the U.K. to clarify things.
Although genetically distinct, the mountain hare in Ireland is only considered a subspecies (Lepus timidus hibernicus).

In fairness most books or field guides do refer to Britain rather than the Uk. In deed not one of my extensive library uses the term UK.

I don't understand what you mean by

I'm sure it would however constitute an evolutionary significant unit for conservation.

The Irish Hare is certainly just a subspecies, as determined by DNA testing. This is also true of the Irish Coal Tit and a few other subspecies.

leopardus

I was agreeing with the fact, kindly pointed out, that I should have referred to Britain rather than the U.K.

The point I was making about the mountain hare was that although the it has a wide distribution (in Europe), the Irish population probably constitutes an evolutionary significant unit (because of it's genetic 'distinctness'). An evolutionary significant unit (E.S.U.) is a 'population' of animals that is considered distinct for the purposes of conservation; it can be a population, subspecies or species. It means basically that the importance for conservation of the ESU (in this case the Irish subspecies, Lepus timidus hibernicus) should be considered seperately (in this case from the noiminate form in the rest of Europe; Lepus timidus).