Dunphy's "Ronaldo is a disgrace to the game"

PHB

I'm surprised you didn't refernce Torres here as the sort of player whose attitude Ronaldo should try to emulate. From what I've seen of him, he's far more likely to get back on his feet and get on with the job instead of looking to the sky. Imo if Ronaldo could learn to accept a few light knocks and quit the exaggerated looks of disbelief, he'd get the respect of a lot more neutrals.

Sorry but that's just silly.
Ronaldo gets fouled so many times it's ludicrous. I saw somewhere he was fouled 6 times in the first 15 minutes of the Barca game. If the ref isn't willing to protect him, he is going to get frustrated. What the hell do you expect? I think the next time people watch Ronaldo, watch how many times he actually gets fouled. Don't focus on how he went down easy or whatever, or his appeals afterwards, but just watch how many times he gets fouled. It's ludicrous.

My point Mr. Alan was that Messi is willing to do anything to win just like Ronaldo. Neither have any qualms about diving, cheating, doing anything to win. The difference is in approach taken.

It's like Gerrard vs. Ronaldo as divers. Both are willing to do it. Gerrard is just better at it. He knows its better to say in public it's disgraceful and do it himself. It's an extremely calculated thing. Ronaldo hasn't learnt that yet (but he also doesnt have the media willing to eat up everything he says)

It's not about playing within the spirit of the game, both are going against the 'spirit of the game' whenever they can. It's about how they try to manipulate the refs.

Ronaldo thinks the best thing to do is loudly complain. IMO that policy doesn't work.
Ronaldinho is a great example too. In the past when things were going his way, he'd just smile and move on. Now he's back to complaining when he doesn't get the decisions. The former worked much much much better.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

When Kryogen said...."nobody has it all"...i pm'd him Torres' name in reply

You did, but alas my friend you are both wrong, Torres does go down too easy also, he complains, not to the same degree mind you, but its there, and he moans and whinges at refs...didnt a ref have to book him a couple of weeks back for dissent??;)

eZe^

Lads, from my experiences, all you have to do is multiply the opinion that Dunphy expresses by about 6.6 X 10^-34 (which, quite coincidentally is planck's constant) and THEN you can debate about the plausability of his claims. He is the perfect living organism that is the definition of hyperbole.

Mr Alan

PHB; this is where we differ on things greatly. I agree Gerrard, Ronaldo and Torres all go down too easy at times.

BUT Ronaldo is by a mile the worst offender of the three, he does it more often than the other two combined.

That to me, makes him the worse offender, whereas, you feel, if you do it once its the same as doing it week in week out. I just think you are wrong on that. In this modern game, all players will go down easy, be it Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard or Ronaldo. I'll save my disdain for the the worst offenders.

I would hazard a guess that Torres is fouled nearly as much as Ronaldo, yet he is yet to pull a huff or sulk like Ronaldo does when things arent going his way (Again talking to the ref is not sulking) I'm talking about fading out of a game, arms in the air, moaning at team mates, gesticulating to the heavens etc.

See the game against Reading the Carling Cup for example, battered for the whole game, how does he respond? Knuckles down, keeps dusting himself off and gets a hat-trick.

kryogen wrote: »

You did, but alas my friend you are both wrong, Torres does go down too easy also, he complains, not to the same degree mind you, but its there, and he moans and whinges at refs...didnt a ref have to book him a couple of weeks back for dissent??;)

Interesting, your reply in PM was a lot more complimentary to Torres

Insect Overlord

PHB wrote: »

Sorry but that's just silly.
Ronaldo gets fouled so many times it's ludicrous. I saw somewhere he was fouled 8 times in the first 15 minutes of the Barca game. If the ref isn't willing to protect him, he is going to get frustrated. What the hell do you expect? I think the next time people watch Ronaldo, watch how many times he actually gets fouled. Don't focus on how he went down easy or whatever, or his appeals afterwards, but just watch how many times he gets fouled. It's ludicrous.

This will sound like a self-contradiction, but I agree with you. I've been a big fan of Ronaldo from his very first appearance against Bolton. His skill and trickery were phenomenal, singling him out as a target. He has been kicked, tripped, pushed, whatever, as much as any other player in the league's history. It's perfectly fair for him to show frustration at times.
The only problem is, he appeals for free kicks after every minimal bit of contact. That's great news for United fans as more often than not the decision goes in our favour. I'm just imagining that from a neutral's perspective it must be annoying to see a guy who's over 6 feet tall put on the cry baby face when in fact legitimate challenges/tackles have been made.

Mr Alan

PHB even in the interview the other night Ronaldo, when asked if he should have had a second peno said something like;

"I dont know, i think he touched me"

Then proceeded to moan about the ref not giving the peno?!

For starters, if he didnt know, how was the ref meant to know?

and second of all, football is a contact sport, he is allowed touch ya Ronaldo!

Boggles

An Fhile wrote: »

I'm just imagining that from a neutral's perspective it must be annoying to see a guy who's over 6 feet tall put on the cry baby face when in fact legitimate challenges/tackles have been made.

I'd imagine from a neutrals perspective they would be more cheesed off at the fact he has scored nearly 40 goals and quite possibly a couple against their team.

Everything about Ronaldo is hyped, the good and the bad.

You say Ronaldo is 6 foot and a cry baby, well the yard stick is still Drogba and the same clowns that started this debate havn't a bad word to say against him.

Football is about winning, the day of honour went out the door when a player can go to an ATM on a Friday and see his 100 grand has been lodged for playing a couple of matches and training a few times a week.

eZe^

Oh, actually, speaking about numerous fouls on players like Ronaldo, Messi, Torres, Robinho, Aguero, etc. Ive got a new rule I would personally like to see implemented. It's blatantly obvious in these games that when these players are on the ball that the opposite midfield/ defense takes turns at fouling him so that one person doesn't commit multiple fouls and end up picking up a yellow so early in the game.

Sid Lowe mentioned it once, what if they implemented a rule so that instead of yellowing a player who has commited 4 fouls, book the person who fouls a player who is known to getting 'special attention' the 4th time (regardless of whether its his first foul or not). That way, you are punishing and effectively stamping out the unfair,niggily and blatant fouls on these players.

PHB

I'd love that eZe, it's how teams deal with Ronaldo.

See the game against Reading the Carling Cup for example, battered for the whole game, how does he respond? Knuckles down, keeps dusting himself off and gets a hat-trick.

Whenever Ronaldo plays bad himself, he works his ass off. Boro was a good example.

I would hazard a guess that Torres is fouled nearly as much as Ronaldo, yet he is yet to pull a huff or sulk like Ronaldo does when things arent going his way (Again talking to the ref is not sulking) I'm talking about fading out of a game, arms in the air, moaning at team mates, gesticulating to the heavens etc.

I don't mean in terms of how many fouls are given, I mean actually fouled. Honestly watch him the next time he plays, it's just unreal how much stuff the opposition get away with.

- I'm talking about fading out of a game
He didn't. He was playing the lone striker! Whenever he got the ball, he did something with it. And as I've said before, should have had 2 more penalties. What more do you want from a lone striker with no service whatsoever?

- moaning at team mates
A better description would be screaming at teammates. And ****ing right too. They deserved a bollicking and leaders step up and give it to them.

- arms in the air
- gesticulating to the heavens etc

He's from the continent, thats what they do. Great players get frustrated. Some take it out on the ref, ala Rooney or Keane. Some scream up into the heavens, ala Ronaldo

---

The only problem is, he appeals for free kicks after every minimal bit of contact. That's great news for United fans as more often than not the decision goes in our favour. I'm just imagining that from a neutral's perspective it must be annoying to see a guy who's over 6 feet tall put on the cry baby face when in fact legitimate challenges/tackles have been made.

I understand why people are annoyed. But I just think they are focusing on Ronaldo for no reason whatsoever. Well no, it's that RTE have started a campaign against him, and he's a target everyone loves to hate, because he's an amazing footballer.

That to me, makes him the worse offender, whereas, you feel, if you do it once its the same as doing it week in week out. I just think you are wrong on that. In this modern game, all players will go down easy, be it Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard or Ronaldo. I'll save my disdain for the the worst offenders.

Seriously, he did not dive once in the entire Barca game. He appealed for fouls that he had no right to, but he never dived. Ronaldo doesn't dive anywhere near as much as people make out, and Gerrard dives much more than people make out.

Roy Keane I think dived once I can remember. Gerrard has dived a good few times this year, as has Ronaldo.
My point is that when you see the Gerrard dive, you'll automatically go, well it was a foul and he had a right to go down. If you see Ronaldo do that, you'd say it was a dive.
The difference? Ronaldo gets fouled constantly in a match, while Gerrard not so much.


---

"I dont know, i think he touched me"

Then proceeded to moan about the ref not giving the peno?!

For starters, if he didnt know, how was the ref meant to know?

It was just a response to the question. I don't know, yes it was, is a pretty common way to respond to something. It was a foul, and thats why he complained.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB; this is where we differ on things greatly. I agree Gerrard, Ronaldo and Torres all go down too easy at times.

BUT Ronaldo is by a mile the worst offender of the three, he does it more often than the other two combined.

That to me, makes him the worse offender, whereas, you feel, if you do it once its the same as doing it week in week out. I just think you are wrong on that. In this modern game, all players will go down easy, be it Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard or Ronaldo. I'll save my disdain for the the worst offenders.

I would hazard a guess that Torres is fouled nearly as much as Ronaldo, yet he is yet to pull a huff or sulk like Ronaldo does when things arent going his way (Again talking to the ref is not sulking) I'm talking about fading out of a game, arms in the air, moaning at team mates, gesticulating to the heavens etc.

See the game against Reading the Carling Cup for example, battered for the whole game, how does he respond? Knuckles down, keeps dusting himself off and gets a hat-trick.



Interesting, your reply in PM was a lot more complimentary to Torres

to be fair that was purely discussing his progression in terms of footballing ability, not his attitude!! and how dare you discuss PM's in public!!!!!:D

Torres is obviously the worst foreign import the prem has seen, Djemba-Djemba would have him for breakfast

FACT!

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB even in the interview the other night Ronaldo, when asked if he should have had a second peno said something like;
"I dont know, i think he touched me" Then proceeded to moan about the ref not giving the peno?!

I think your judging the guys English harshly, he definately thought it was penalty.

Mr Alan wrote: »

For starters, if he didnt know, how was the ref meant to know?

Eyeballs, perspective, etc. ???

I have seen it many times and from many different angles, it was a penalty. So Ronaldo was right, correct?

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB even in the interview the other night Ronaldo, when asked if he should have had a second peno said something like;

"I dont know, i think he touched me"

Then proceeded to moan about the ref not giving the peno?!

For starters, if he didnt know, how was the ref meant to know?

and second of all, football is a contact sport, he is allowed touch ya Ronaldo!

Jesus give the lad a break. He's speaking in a foreign tongue, you don't have to take him so literally. It was pretty obvious he was sure it was a peno.

Imagine the following interview scenario

Interviewer from Gay Weekly: Hi Mr Alan, so who do you think is the best looking man in the world today

Mr Alan: I think that Fernando Torres is the dishiest, strongest sexiest man not just in this world but in every other world too.

Now imagine readers of Gay Weekly giving out about you because you said the word "Think". You'd tell them to cop on and shut the fcuk up and let you get back to licking your life sized poster of Fernando.

Mr Alan

No, i dont think it was a penalty, at least if it was, it was for a foul that is commited numerous times every game and never punished.

PHB; I dont see much sense in us carrying on with this conversation, its frustrating doing it over a message boards, every point either of us make can just very easily be counteracted and that can continue forever, but if DES (cough cough) ever gets around to organising a boards soccer beers, and you're in the country, we'll discuss it over a pint.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, i dont think it was a penalty, at least if it was, it was for a foul that is commited numerous times every game and never punished.

PHB; I dont see much sense in us carrying on with this conversation, its frustrating doing it over a message boards, every point either of us make can just very easily be counteracted and that can continue forever, but if DES (cough cough) ever gets around to organising a boards soccer beers, and you're in the country, we'll discuss it over a pint.

Count me in for the Boards soccer beers!!

Mr Alan

Pighead wrote: »

Jesus give the lad a break. He's speaking in a foreign tongue, you don't have to take him so literally. It was pretty obvious he was sure it was a peno.

Imagine the following interview scenario

Interviewer from Gay Weekly: Hi Mr Alan, so who do you think is the best looking man in the world today

Mr Alan: I think that Fernando Torres is the dishiest, strongest sexiest man not just in this world but in every other world too.

Now imagine readers of Gay Weekly giving out about you because you said the word "Think". You'd tell them to cop on and shut the fcuk up and let you get back to licking your life sized poster of Fernando.

oh pighead, you do make me laugh.

in fact a post i read of yours yesterday discussing football manager actually made me LOL thanks for that.

Needless to say, you have chosen an awful example to compare the two situations.

You put all the emphasis on the comedic reaction you would get as opposed to using the best example to strengthen your argument.

I'll give you a C+ overall for that. Must try harder in future

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, i dont think it was a penalty, at least if it was, it was for a foul that is commited numerous times every game and never punished.

So it was a foul in the box but not a penalty?

Mr Alan

Boggles, i meant that i dont view it as a foul, and if it is a foul, i've never/rarely seen it punished.

Ferdinand and Evras fouls, now they were stonewall

Gegerty

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, i dont think it was a penalty, at least if it was, it was for a foul that is commited numerous times every game and never punished.

How can you say that when in the same game the ref gave a free kick for an identical foul commited by Scholes just outside the united box. And as Scholes pointed out to he ref after he blew, how come that was a foul and the one on Ronaldo wasn't? There are different rules in the box than outside the box. This is a constant bending of the rules by referees game after game.

Mr Alan

But tugging of a shirt is a foul outside the box, and rarely/never a penalty.

These inconsistancies are always in the game, Wednesday night was not the moment to suddenly start implementing the rules.

Utd have already benefited from refs deciding when to start implementing rules this season

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, i meant that i dont view it as a foul, and if it is a foul, i've never/rarely seen it punished.

Ferdinand and Evras fouls, now they were stonewall

Do you know why it wasn't a penalty? Because the ref already gave one and he would have had to send the defender off.

Unforunately in certain circumstances in football the rulebook goes out the window.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB; I dont see much sense in us carrying on with this conversation, its frustrating doing it over a message boards, every point either of us make can just very easily be counteracted and that can continue forever, but if DES (cough cough) ever gets around to organising a boards soccer beers, and you're in the country, we'll discuss it over a pint.

Fair enough, I should warn you, I tend to win things when I'm drunk

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd have already benefited from refs deciding when to start implementing rules this season

In that instance maybe, but over the course of the season we've had countless penalties not given. We've been harshly treated by refs this year imo, much more so than most teams (which is confirmed by that silly table thingy)

warrenaldo

As a liverpool fan - i must say that i thought ronaldo was the only united player to actually do anything during the barca game. His team defended well. But when they got the ball - they were muck. No wonder ronaldo was complaining - if he passed the ball to a team mate they usually lost it.
I thought he was a constant threat and if he was playing for barca - they would have won.

ibh

ibh wrote: »

What you are arguing is that Ronaldo has been the player of the year. It doesn't mean he is the best in the world. Kaka had an average season, but that doesn't stop him from being one of the best in the world.
Having seen Messi play (in the flesh) and a fair bit on TV, i would say that he is without a doubt the BEST player in the world. He had a tough season with injury but has still shown when he's played that he is operating at a different level.

And to whoever it was that said Evra had Messi in his pocket. I hope you were taking the p!ss cause that is a joke. I'm not talking about how many tackles he made or how many times he got past him... Messi was the most effective (just ahead of Xavi) player on the field so i fail to see how he did that from Evra's pocket.

Boggles wrote: »

You are arguing against Ronaldo being the best in the world at the moment on WHAT IF's?

What IF Messi wasn't injured?

What IF Caca wasn't average?

You don't have to use What IF when it comes to Ronaldo, he is doing what it takes to be percieved as the best in the world.

I love Dunphy but he has alot to answer for this week.

WTF are you on???

I never used the term 'what if' in my post... Did you read my post??? How am i arguing on what if's when i haven't used the term once??

I am arguing that i don't class the best player in the world entirely in the short term. I acknowledge that Ronaldo should win player of the year for his performances this year. Ask me who the best player in the world is, and it is still Messi, imo. If in the next 2 to 3 years, Ronaldo consistently out performs Messi, then I will reassess mu opinion.

Kaka isn't average (btw do you know who he is? cause you called him Caca. He plays for Milan anyway...), he has had an average season. Zidane was a great player, but he still had the odd average season.

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought this might prove of interest. John Giles on Newstalk commenting on the criticism towards Ronaldo...

http://www.podcastingireland.ie/listen-podcast2-515-6.html

Quite interesting. Says most of the people who had a problem with what was said are probably Man Utd fans.

Also goes on to talk about the United tie itself, Thierry Henry and why he's not performing, the Liverpool/Chelsea tie and some other things.

ironingbored

Jazzy wrote: »

alrighty roo

---

name sum1 currently playing better then him. name someone that has played better then him all season.

Alessandro Del Piero. 17 goals in serie A this season. Has won everything there is to win and still performing at the very top

ROCKMAN

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, i dont think it was a penalty, at least if it was, it was for a foul that is commited numerous times every game and never punished.

PHB; I dont see much sense in us carrying on with this conversation, its frustrating doing it over a message boards, every point either of us make can just very easily be counteracted and that can continue forever, but if DES (cough cough) ever gets around to organising a boards soccer beers, and you're in the country, we'll discuss it over a pint.

Someone mention BEER

kryogen wrote: »

Count me in for the Boards soccer beers!!

AH someone to drink on the train with.

Unearthly

ironingbored wrote: »

Alessandro Del Piero. 17 goals in serie A this season. Has won everything there is to win and still performing at the very top

17 goals in Serie A is not as impressive as 28 goals in the premiership and top scorer in CL now is it?

ironingbored

Unearthly wrote: »

17 goals in Serie A is not as impressive as 28 goals in the premiership and top scorer in CL now is it?

It has always been harder to score in Serie A that in the Prem League.

Call me when Ronaldive scores 37 CL goals in 79 games.

Unearthly

ironingbored wrote: »

It has always been harder to score in Serie A that in the Prem League.

Call me when Ronaldive scores 37 CL goals in 79 games.

Baseless argument. There is no proof at all that it's harder to score in Serie A than the premiership. You have had players go from Serie A to the premiership with good records at scoring and failing.

Even then it's not 11 goals more easier.

and the argument was this season, not disputing Del Piero's career, but yeah, if you want to wander off on different tangents to help fuel your Ronaldo hatred, be my guest.

tdv

Unearthly wrote: »

17 goals in Serie A is not as impressive as 28 goals in the premiership and top scorer in CL now is it?

But Ronaldo is at the prime of his career Del Piero is near the twilight of his.

Unearthly

I don't see how that is relevant?

Ronaldo performed better this season.

kryogen

ironingbored wrote: »

It has always been harder to score in Serie A that in the Prem League.

Call me when Ronaldive scores 37 CL goals in 79 games.

Couple of lads might disagree with you there, Crespo, Weah, Shevchenko etc.... all scored pretty regularly in serie A, what was their strike record in the prem? im pretty confident Ronaldo will beat his tally by the time he reaches his age, as it stands ronaldo has 11 goals in 40 apps in the champs league....looks more impressive if you take it from when he opened his account, it would make it 11 in 27 which is pretty impressive or something like the fact that he has scored 10 in his last 18 games in europe, his strike rate is getting better every year, whats to say he wont beat it?

also where are you getting your stats?? by my count Del Piero has played 95 Champs League games scoring 40 goals............actually researching this made me check back on that fantastic season he had when he scored 10 in 10 in the champions league, now that was impressive

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

Del boy all the way. Been doing it since 94 and never stopped! i'd love to know how many assists and goals he has in his 570 serie a caps for juve and CL and 100+ caps for Italy? you enevr know with c ronaldo, he might have a bad inury or accident so then his career would be cut short and he wouldn't achieve legendary status . but Del boy is one of the Legends of football. defo top 100 of all time if not top 50.

kryogen

Del Piero according to one site

Club Performance League Cup International Total
Season Club League Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals
Italy League Coppa Italia Europe Total
1991-92 Padova Serie B 4 0 - - 4 0
1992-93 10 1 - - 10 1
1993-94 Juventus Serie A 11 5 1 0 2 0 14 5
1994-95 29 8 10 1 11 1 50 10
1995-96 29 6 3 1 11 6 43 13
1996-97 22 8 4 0 8 6 34 14
1997-98 32 21 5 1 10 10 47 32
1998-99 8 2 2 1 4 0 14 3
1999-00 34 9 2 1 9 2 45 12
2000-01 26 9 2 0 6 0 33 9
2001-02 32 16 4 1 10 4 46 21
2002-03 24 16 1 2 13 5 38 23
2003-04 22 8 5 3 4 3 31 14
2004-05 29 14 1 0 10 3 41 17
2005-06 33 12 5 5 7 3 45 20
2006-07 Serie B 35 20 2 3 - 37 23
2007-08 Serie A 33 17 4 3 - 37 20
Total Italy 413 172 51 22 105 43 564 237
Career Total 413 172 51 22 105 43 564 237

thats club football, total apps and goals bolded...

International level 79 caps 27 goals

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

wheres the assists? hes played on the wing half of the time too... as he does for Italy.. so assists count for alot. without assists there would be not too many goals :P i'd reckon hes got as many assists as goals.

kryogen

assists??

well all i can find accredited to him are 28 assists....i feel that figure is a bit low in fairness...ill do a bit more digging when i wake up....im in a very statto mood

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

28? thats prob this years tally so far :P, maybe its missing a 0

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

If only he was taller and could header the ball better he'd have double the amount of his goals.

Call Me Jimmy

If only me auntie had bollocks she'd be me uncle.

iregk

kryogen wrote: »

Couple of lads might disagree with you there, Crespo, Weah, Shevchenko etc.... all scored pretty regularly in serie A, what was their strike record in the prem?

Weah was well past his best by the time he hit the prem. Purely a last gasp pay packet type situation.

Sheva well there is a lot more going on there than pure football I think we all agree.

Crespo. Go back and actually look at the stats will you. When Crespo played for Chelsea he had the highest goals to games/mins on the pitch ratio in the prem. Henry was top scorer that year but played a hell of a lot more than him. I remember sky doing a comparison and henry goals to mins on the pitch was nowhere even close to Crespo. 12 league goals for Chelsea in his fist season from 19 starts only completing 90mins on 1 occasion. The rest of his games were 10mins here, 5 mins there. Thats a flop?

Agree there, I always thought Crespo was savage to be fair to him. Great finisher. Dont undersdtand how he doesnt start for Intiger.

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree there, I always thought Crespo was savage to be fair to him. Great finisher. Dont undersdtand how he doesnt start for Intiger.

Inter have released him if i'm not mistaken, would love to see us take him and get rid of Voronin, cant see it though

gucci

+1 Crespo is class.
Arent Chelsea still paying him, or he is officially a Chelsea player or something?

iregk

No. May this year Crespo officially became an Inter player.