anticipation and safety when cycling in traffic

oobydooby

Following the thread about the accident today in Cabra:

These incidents (accidents involving cyclists) always frighten me and remind me of my vulnerability as a cyclist in the city. I saw a schoolboy nearly go under a van today at Annesley Bridge - luckily the van driver anticipated him and stopped in time. The kid was being a kid and raced across the road to an island through traffic. He braked at the island and skidded out into the road. He'd no control of the bike. I was watching in horror while waiting for the green light. Luckily the van driver was watching too, and lucky the traffic was heavy. The kid waited for the green man afterwards, quite deflated.

Anyway, some tips from fellow urban cyclists might be a good idea, especially with so many inexperienced cyclists joining the fray with the good weather. Hope that doesn't sound elitist:o I'll get the ball rolling with a few mainly taken from cyclecraft
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/
or ROTR:

1. Never undertake a large vehicle (bus, truck, plant etc.)

2. Undertake cautiously near a junction as the vehicle might be allowing oncoming traffic to turn right across your path.

3. Watch out for passengers alighting from gridlocked cars, especially if you're in a thin "cycle lane"

4. Watch out for pedestrians appearing from nowhere behind gridlocked vans, busses, SUVs

5. Always leave a metre between you and parked cars, even if you have to occupy the middle of the lane. If a car door opens suddenly and you don't command the lane you could be either doored or you could swerve into traffic.

6. Don't cycle between the two yellow lines unless you're sure the road surface is good. Give yourself a metre from the kerb to avoid swerving for drains, broken glass, potholes, errant pedestrians

7. Don't speed up for orange lights.

8. Learn how to cycle with one hand and no hands so you can give hand-signals without wobbling.

9. Learn to cycle forwards in a straight line while looking over your shoulder to either side, but especially over your right shoulder.

10. Never overtake or change lanes or take a right turn until you've mastered the above (number 9).

We can add plenty more to this. The wiki will be useful.

Danbo!

Excellent Post... I have, in the last few weeks, considered starting a thread with tips to cycle commuting, with a view to it becoming a sticky (dependant upon whether it turns into a thread with decent info, or an argument that kicking wing mirrors off and not wearing a helmet is ok!) .

There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, with people commuting in many conditions (city/country/1 mile/20miles/morning/noon/night), who have, through years of experience, built up an unwritten "rules of the road", like the many things you have listed in your post.

I guess its just the fact that there has been so many - "recommend me a commuting bike" or "Im leaving the car at home" threads, that a decent resource of info should be available to anyone considering cycling....What you have posted is a good start..

Stee

kona

just on the subject of the annesly bridge incident, last monday around 10pm pitch dark, i was driving into the city.

what do i see?? some feckin GOB$HITE on a piece of **** MTB , NO lights,which on a busy road is insane, but wait it gets better, the stupid arsehole was cyling in the MIDDLE of the road, cycling INTO oncoming traffic:mad:

of course these eejits eventually sort themselves out but usually at the expense of others:mad:

why do some cyclists think Hi-Vis is a substitute for lights???

i really think some sort of education with bikes sold for commuting is needed( bit of a mad suggestion i know).

from working in a bike shop heres the attitude of the majority.

"whats your cheapest bike??"

---

>warranty will cover everything, misuse etc:rolleyes::eek:
(actually i got a question from a customer about a decent bike about 3x more expensive than his budget..."they are the same as the cheap one.....they are for the gob****es!!!" incidentally i reckon hes spent 4x the initial price on fixing his bike:D:D)

"no i dont need lights":rolleyes:

"no i dont need a helmet, will wreck my hair and look stupid"
(incidentally they will look quite dumb when they crack their head off a kerb:rolleyes:)


irish attitude to cycling is to do it as cheap as possible, and be totally ignorant to everything:mad:

The irish menatality is a disgrace tbh

Danbo!

kona wrote: »

around 10pm pitch dark, i was driving into the city

Leeson street bridge, I was heading up the canal towards rathmines, waiting at a red light. Girl on a bike (also pitch dark - no lights - no hi viz), sees that the leeson street traffic get an amber light, heads straight out and gets hit, albeit at about 10mph, luckily the driver stood on the brakes (great driver, theres no way i would have seen her - after coming over a humpback bridge and all). And all of a sudden, the shaken driver gets out and is all apologies. Cue every member of the public (pedestrians) offering to be a witness in favour of the cyclist. And me, your man on the bike behind her, the only one to offer to be a witness to the driver...

kona wrote: »

"no i dont need a helmet, will wreck my hair and look stupid"

Ha, i remember a friend seeing me wearing my helmet - his response - "Jesus, why are you wearing a helmet? Live a little":rolleyes:

Snapper1

One particular and one general...

Earphones - NEVER wear them. Some people do, some don't, I would never wear them in city cycling. Your ears keep you aware of whats happening on the road be it a beep, a screech of a brake or a shout from an overtaking cyclist. You shouldn't just be depending on your eyes.

Look after YOURSELF - you can be decked out in lights, high-vis vests and armoured plating but if you're in the wrong position on the road in moving traffic or between two buses when a light goes green, you're as vulnerable as ever. Road awareness and smart positioning will keep you safe, never expect a driver to see you.

Now who wants to do Helmets lol?

kona

noblestee wrote: »

Leeson street bridge, I was heading up the canal towards rathmines, waiting at a red light. Girl on a bike (also pitch dark - no lights - no hi viz), sees that the leeson street traffic get an amber light, heads straight out and gets hit, albeit at about 10mph, luckily the driver stood on the brakes (great driver, theres no way i would have seen her - after coming over a humpback bridge and all). And all of a sudden, the shaken driver gets out and is all apologies. Cue every member of the public (pedestrians) offering to be a witness in favour of the cyclist. And me, your man on the bike behind her, the only one to offer to be a witness to the driver...:

she will think twice;) retard tbh, i hate the way these assholes give us all a bad name, usually spotted with a cheap bike etc:D
id have called the guards , they see no lights, she would have been arrested as its a legal obligation to have lights(not any lights, they have to be up to a BS standard, cheap lights aint up to this)

that road is INSANE when coming from leeson st its the one that turns off shaply into a S bend???

noblestee wrote: »

Ha, i remember a friend seeing me wearing my helmet - his response - "Jesus, why are you wearing a helmet? Live a little":rolleyes:

:D:D

the irony....

or my favourite "€30, thats too expensive" nice to see the value these dead-heads place on their brains(id value them less tbh!)

the reason helmets are so uncomfortable is because you are buying the cheap crap.....the more you spend the better the fit....:D duh!

oobydooby

Maybe if we could focus on actual cyclist skills and positioning rather than getting sidetracked into unsettled debates. Some debates (eg helmets) have been settled here PHACT ;-)

Danbo!

kona wrote: »

that road is INSANE when coming from leeson st its the one that turns off shaply into a S bend???

Yeah - Thats where the motorist was heading. We were on the road that runs along the canal. Basically he was doin bout 50kph towards the bridge and the lights changed amber, so like any other driver, continue.

Felt so bad for the guy tbh - everyone screaming at him about breaking a red light, while he was offering to bring the girl to hospital or call the gardai and actually admitting liability. All this time, the girl was on her high horse with the support of surrounding people and screaming at him about losing her job (she thought her arm was broken and thus would lose her job - IDIOT)

Danbo!

noblestee wrote: »

dependant upon whether it turns into a thread with decent info, or an argument

Yeah sorry ooby, really need to take my own advice!

kona

noblestee wrote: »

Yeah - Thats where the motorist was heading. We were on the road that runs along the canal. Basically he was doin bout 50kph towards the bridge and the lights changed amber, so like any other driver, continue.

Felt so bad for the guy tbh - everyone screaming at him about breaking a red light, while he was offering to bring the girl to hospital or call the gardai and actually admitting liability. All this time, the girl was on her high horse with the support of surrounding people and screaming at him about losing her job (she thought her arm was broken and thus would lose her job - IDIOT)

:o:o

you should have called the guards id love to have shut her up:D

but amber gambler.....just the two of them gambled:D.

i think this story is good advice to cyclists, i.e they cop on.

zeris

You can't cycle on busy roads and be scared of other traffic. You have to be able to impose on the vehicles behind you. If for your safety that means signalling and safely moving right into the middle of the lane, do it.

And never find yourself on the inside of a left indicating vehicle. Just don't let it happen. You can move right into the middle of the lane behind the vehicle if you think they can see you in their rear view mirror. Otherwise stop at the left kerb. Keep in mind the HGV driver who may have seen you in his left hand wing mirror and now can no longer see you if you move in behind. Sometimes it is just better to park it at the kerb at wait the 15 seconds or so for the HGV to clear the junction. Passing the vehicle on the right should really only be done when the carriageway has two lanes and you can safely merge into the right lane. Especially for a HGV as you need to give space for the trailer to swing so you can't share a lane.

Never find yourself at red lights on the inside of a vehicle. Either move ahead of it or move in behind it. The driver may only indicate when the lights turn green.

When turning right, use other turning vehicles as a shield against traffic. This usually means moving in behind the first turning vehicle.

Don't look pedestrians in the eye when they are trying to cross. Doing so seems the give them tacit permission to walk out in front of you. Look past them.

kenmc

At all times you need to be thinking "what is the most stupid and unlikely thing that car is going to do" because chances are, that's exactly what they will do.

Cycling without lights at night is just lunacy, and TBH I wish the cops would take peoples bikes off them for that. Assume that no-one can see you on the bike, but hope that they all do.

Don't be a shrinking violet by cycling 3cm from the kerb - you're asking for drivers to squeeze by you with no room. I tend to put my bike about a metre or so from the kerb - there's usually gravel, wet leaves, drains etc closer to it. That way if a car wants to pass by you they must wait for a gap in the oncoming traffic - same as if they wanted to overtake another car - they wouldn't just squeeze another car into the kerb, in order to get by, so why should they do so with bikes? Also by being that far out you have a decent amount of emergency space to get the bike stopped if you really need to if a car cuts you up.

'Train' the drivers like dogs - reward them for good behaviour. A wave, a thumbs up if they don't cross or pull out in front of you, or if they wait for you to pass before turning left in front of you.

Caroline_ie

oobydooby wrote: »

8. Learn how to cycle with one hand and no hands so you can give hand-signals without wobbling.

9. Learn to cycle forwards in a straight line while looking over your shoulder to either side, but especially over your right shoulder.

Especially useful for the 2 finger salute after a car tries to run you over or throws something at you.:D

In all seriousness thought, thanks for the tips

seamus

oobydooby wrote: »

2. Undertake cautiously near a junction as the vehicle might be allowing oncoming traffic to turn right across your path.

Indeed. Be especially wary when undertaking traffic and you see a yellow box ahead. Even if it's only for the entrance to a supermarket, there's a good chance that someone is going to turn across your path - the yellow box is there because it's a relatively high-volume entrance.

Another one that I encountered this morning - Always watch out for side roads on your left and expect that someone is going to appear and cut across you, even if you can't see anyone. Even if you are looking straight at a waiting driver, don't expect that he's seen you. Particularly in traffic, people become one-track minded about getting out through the traffic and across the road. They don't watch for bikes.
I had an exchange of expletives this morning with an idiot who pulled straight out of whitefriar street onto Aungier street without looking.

When dealing with large vehicles, try to stay on either side of them and watch their wing mirrors. If you can see the driver, he should be able to see you, and many drivers will communicate with you through their mirrors (wave you on or thank you and so forth).

I remember seeing a minor incident years ago which could have been way worse. An artic cab was stopped at a set of lights (on the Stillorgan DC I think). A girl cycled up from behind the truck on its right-hand side, and then turned to cross the road in front of the truck, walking right in front of the grill. Any truck driver will tell you that people sitting there cannot be seen. The lights went green, the truck pulled off, and flattened her back wheel effortlessly. The truck had only moved about five feet before stopping, but if the cyclist had been two seconds slower she was pizza.

Mucco

oobydooby wrote: »

1. Never undertake a large vehicle (bus, truck, plant etc.)

6. Don't cycle close to the kerb

As someone who cycles daily in heavy city centre traffic, these are the two key points for me. Actually, for the second point, I'd go even further and suggest cycling further out in the middle of the lane. You get seen, and can control the traffic behind you by pulling in when it's safe for them to pass.

DirkVoodoo

When on a cycle lane that shares pavement with a bus stop, slow down if you are approaching a stopping or stopped bus. Far too often people simply hop off the bus without looking and someone on a bike will be flying past.

TinyExplosions

I think lights should be mandatory with every new bike purchased, like bells are in the UK (best laugh was getting the bell in the box with my new Focus from Wiggle!), and for the cops to pull you over for cycling without them. There's been a couple of times I've been caught out without my lights, and have gone right past Gardai at a traffic check without them saying anything.

Also, expect the worse... that car at a junction ahead of you? He's going to turn in front of you, yellow boxes? Beware of drivers not looking.

Finally, bee aware of pedestrians on the kerb, they often take a step onto the road before looking, and if you're anywhere near the kerb you're goin to hit them. DOn't be afraid of cycling in the middle of the lane, even if there's idiots blaring their horns behind you -you've as much right to be there as they do

daymobrew

oobydooby wrote: »

2. Undertake cautiously near a junction as the vehicle might be allowing oncoming traffic to turn right across your path.

4. Watch out for pedestrians appearing from nowhere behind gridlocked vans, busses, SUVs

The combined version of these points is to be careful undetaking any slow or stopped vehicle that you cannot see through/past.
When passing a bus I will try to look through its side & front windows to see if there is a car or pedestrian moving in front of it.

For the wiki I'm thinking that we could have short sections for controversial topics with a few pro/con points for each.

RobAMerc

I would like to add one that applies to both cyclists and motorists too and is rife in Irish traffic.

Just because you signaled - do not assume other traffic is expecting and allowing you to perform your maneuver.

The amount of people I see signal and move without ever checking other traffic actually noticed is unreal!

Killgore Trout

Indicators only indicate that a bulb is working on a vehicle - be aware when turning onto a main road that you could be cycling out in front of a vehicle that has left it's indicator on but is in fact going straight. Wait for the junction to clear instead.

Don't assume that indication alone gives you a right to change position. Look - indicate - look.

SerialComplaint

kenmc wrote: »

'Train' the drivers like dogs - reward them for good behaviour. A wave, a thumbs up if they don't cross or pull out in front of you, or if they wait for you to pass before turning left in front of you.

Fully agree.

irishmotorist

I've been cycling into town to work and more recently through town for about 3 years. For me, the biggest thing is observation - in front of you, beside you and behind you. Once you keep scanning around, looking at the upcoming road surface, looking for indicators, looking at drivers lines, looking at the changes of speed of cars you're giving yourself the best chance. Also, letting drivers see that you're looking over your shoulder alerts them to the fact that you're there and

I'll also stay a minimum of a metre from the kerb. If somebody wants to pass me (be it a single lane road or a bus/taxi in a bus lane), then they'll have to overtake me, not just pass me. Too many drivers will think that you're kerb fodder and not give you enough room because they're in a hurry or whatever. Don't allow yourself to get pressured into veering closer to the kerb as it's dangerous for you and holding the car up for an extra 100 metres isn't going to cause anybody any real problems. Me staying upright is more important than somebody's haste.

I'd say that a general rule is that you should behave like a car and cycle with common sense. Don't undertake left turing vehicles - slow down or overtake them if safe to do so. Always signal to drivers if you're planning to cross lanes or turn. I personally find that making eye contact as you signal what you're about to do gives you lots of leeway. I'll always try make sure to do a 'strong' hand signal before changing position - i.e. arm fully extended with a pointing finger. This gives the driver the impression that you're already moving under his wheels and he'll give you the second that you need.

beans

May all your posts be as your first

irishmotorist

Cheers, but that's probably unlikely. Cherish this moment

TinyExplosions

irishmotorist wrote: »

Cheers, but that's probably unlikely. Cherish this moment

And yep, he's ruined it with his second post
-sorry, couldn't resist!

Canis Lupus

I cycled in Dub right through city centre for some 4 years and now currently in London. Never had an accident that wasn't my own fault (only ever just fallen off).

It's not hard to cycle defensively. It helps that's I'm a driver and I think like a driver when I cycle in so far as, if I see a car in front of me slow down inexplicably and there is a left turn ahead I think he's turning left and not indicating. If undertaking a line of cars stopped in traffic and there is a left turn ahead I slow up in case a car coming from the other direction turns in cos they won't see me till it's too late. If there is a long vehicle overtaking me and the road ahead is bending to the left..... I slow down as long vehicles get close to the pavement in the middle of the turn.

etc etc etc. Whilst I won't argue that some accidents are unavoidable 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of accidents for us cyclists is because we do stupid things, don't think and don't open our eyes to see what's happening around us and importantly what MAY happen. Don't look at an approaching left turn with a no entry sign on it as a road that cars magically can't turn left into. Some numpty at some time will turn left and may not indicate to do so and you'll be pwned if you're on the inside of him. Just use your head.

Gavin

I had stuck a small section on safe cycling in the wiki before it carked. If people want to take some of the info from this and put it in the wiki, great. If not, I'll do it at some point.
http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Safe_Cycling

(wiki is back now)

Gav

oobydooby

Verb wrote: »

I had stuck a small section on safe cycling in the wiki before it carked. If people want to take some of the info from this and put it in the wiki, great. If not, I'll do it at some point.
http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Safe_Cycling

(wiki is back now)

Gav

Nice one. Good idea on another thread to include controversial topics (we all know which ones!) and just have a short list of pros and cons afterwards. However the number of headings will grow like crazy on the wiki page. Anyway it's a wiki so we'll see what happens.

Still I think the thread format might catch more spontaneous ideas.

OK off for a spin - away from the city:)

Capt'n Midnight

No right turn signs.

Keep to the left lane.
Go straight almost all the way through the junction, then merge with the stopped cars to your left , in front so they can see you. Then when the lights change you can go straight through..

Also worth considering at dangerous / busy junctions / or if there are a lot of lanes.

Takes a little longer but no worrying about motorists who don't know how to drive. If you look at the left lane on the Naas road you'll see that about 80-90% of motorists fit into this category.

Mizu_Ger

oobydooby wrote: »

2. Undertake cautiously near a junction as the vehicle might be allowing oncoming traffic to turn right across your path.

I think this point is very important. I've seen it happen many times and unless you (on a bike) are keeping your wits about you, it could be disaster!

Also, its important to keep your eyes open when passing a bus (or row of buses) stopped at a bus stop. I hit a girl (not seriously) once when she ran out onto O'Connell St. (Dublin) after getting off a bus. She came out onto the road so fast from the behind the bus that I didn't have time to react.

souter

having done 20 years + in dublin and london I've added a few bit to the wiki http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Safe_Cycling

precis: helmet, lights, hiviz, awareness, assume the worse, __no__ earphones. And don't do anything stupid.

It aint rocket science but quite a few cyclists need to learn it. Unfortuneately they're unlikely to be reading this forum.

Tempted fate now, I'm bound to get whacked or doored on the way home tonight.