Getting a refund from a bankrupt company

digiology

Hi, I ordered some equipment from a german site musiciansgear.com a few months ago. I got an email a month later saying that the company had filed for bankruptcy and was given contact details of some a debt management company http://www.kullen-mueller-zinser.de/eng/kanzlei.htm who tell me that the court has not yet appointed a liquidator whenever I email them.
KMZ have never given me any idea about what time frame a liqudator may be appointed.

Is there anything I can do here? I really just want to be able to put pressure on these guys or at least get some assurance that I'll get my money back.
The thing is, KMZ seems legit and I ordered a keyboard from musiciansgear without any problems a few years ago.

Nody

digiology wrote: »

Is there anything I can do here? I really just want to be able to put pressure on these guys or at least get some assurance that I'll get my money back.

Very unlikely that you will, there is a reason why they are bankrupt after all and consumer claims tends to be at the bottom of the list for things to get paid (and no, you can't change the order in which stuff gets paid short of a contract stating you got preference on debt).

keefg

Nody wrote: »

Very unlikely that you will, there is a reason why they are bankrupt after all and consumer claims tends to be at the bottom of the list for things to get paid (and no, you can't change the order in which stuff gets paid short of a contract stating you got preference on debt).

Sorry OP but this is bang on.....you (and other customers) will be at the end of a long line of companies/people trying to get money out of this company.

Once a company goes down the pan and any assets are cashed in, the normal pecking order for handouts is......

Staff (for any outstanding wages etc)
Tax Man (he always takes a big slice of the pie)
The Bank (against any outstanding loans/finance)

If there is anything left after this then the companies suppliers are normally next.

I wouldn't give up though, just make sure you name is on the list when a liquidator has been appointed. You may be lucky and receive a partial refund......but this is a long shot.

Coileach dearg

keefg wrote: »

Sorry OP but this is bang on.....you (and other customers) will be at the end of a long line of companies/people trying to get money out of this company.

Once a company goes down the pan and any assets are cashed in, the normal pecking order for handouts is......

Staff (for any outstanding wages etc)
Tax Man (he always takes a big slice of the pie)
The Bank (against any outstanding loans/finance)

If there is anything left after this then the companies suppliers are normally next.

I wouldn't give up though, just make sure you name is on the list when a liquidator has been appointed. You may be lucky and receive a partial refund......but this is a long shot.

I'm not sure if this is relevant but I assume in my case the same principles apply here.

I booked an inter-Island airline ticket with a Hawaiian airline and found out a few weeks ago they just went bankrupt. I paid for the ticket by credit card and called my bank who told me to provide evidence of the airline going bankrupt. I sent them my ticket printout confirmation and website screenshot. In 3 days the money was back in my account.

If you paid by credit card the charges should be reversable. Call up your bank/credit card company.

Good luck

craichoe

Coileach dearg wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is relevant but I assume in my case the same principles apply here.

I booked an inter-Island airline ticket with a Hawaiian airline and found out a few weeks ago they just went bankrupt. I paid for the ticket by credit card and called my bank who told me to provide evidence of the airline going bankrupt. I sent them my ticket printout confirmation and website screenshot. In 3 days the money was back in my account.

If you paid by credit card the charges should be reversable. Call up your bank/credit card company.

Good luck

Yup, this is 100% true, same thing with ? Jetmagic a few years back. People that paid by debit card were screwed, credit cards were just able to reverse the transaction.

jor el

Coileach dearg wrote: »

If you paid by credit card the charges should be reversable. Call up your bank/credit card company.

That's probably his best bet, but given it was a few months back, it may not be possible to reverse the transaction any more. A lot of banks only let you do a charge back within a month of payment.

If you do get on the list of creditors to be payed (and you'll be somewhere at the bottom) you'd be lucky to get 10% of your money back. Good luck, but don't get your hopes up.

digiology

Nody wrote: »

(and no, you can't change the order in which stuff gets paid short of a contract stating you got preference on debt).

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this statement.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm surprised that there is little I can do, I can't believe he took my money, didn't reply (didn't even get a chance to order the product from the manufacturer) and told me a month later that they were bankrupt. I have a feeling that he just operates from home and doesn't get many orders judging from the site's design and lack of professionalism, kinda dodgy like...

I have his phone number now, and I'm going to email KMZ once again, this is ridiculous.


Just wondering, whats to stop me setting up a company, taking a months worth of orders and declaring myself bankrupt?

axer

digiology wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this statement.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm surprised that there is little I can do, I can't believe he took my money, didn't reply (didn't even get a chance to order the product from the manufacturer) and told me a month later that they were bankrupt. I have a feeling that he just operates from home and doesn't get many orders judging from the site's design and lack of professionalism, kinda dodgy like...

I have his phone number now, and I'm going to email KMZ once again, this is ridiculous.


Just wondering, whats to stop me setting up a company, taking a months worth of orders and declaring myself bankrupt?

Ring you credit card provider immediately and try and back charge first. Let them know clearly you never received the goods. Not sure even if you should mention bankruptcy - I think they have to give a deposit to the credit card companies at the begining so it probably could come out of this.

There is nothing stopping someone setting up a company and then declaring bankruptcy. I believe you cannot open a company for another 10 years though. I'm not sure but I think it is possibly to sue the directors if they acted negligently but as I said I am not sure.

Nody

digiology wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this statement

There are a few times when a contract is signed about priority in regards to getting money in case the company goes belly up. This is usually required by the bank/third party loaner for certain companies and gives them the chance to get all their cash before everyone else basically.

I have a feeling that he just operates from home and doesn't get many orders judging from the site's design and lack of professionalism, kinda dodgy like...

Yet you still put in an order and hence decided to take the chance.

I have his phone number now, and I'm going to email KMZ once again, this is ridiculous.

And that is useful how? If he's bancrupt he can't decide who gets paid.

Just wondering, whats to stop me setting up a company, taking a months worth of orders and declaring myself bankrupt?

Beyond the fact it would be a scam (illegal and ends up in a court on a regular basis), give you a mark in regards to your finance record and most likely not allowed to start a new company to do it again, nothing really.

Phaetonman

This is an easy one. Ring credit card company and initiate a chargeback.

If you didn't pay with credit card then let it be a lesson. Never use anything other than a credit card for any mail order or online shopping.

Rb

OP, providing you can't get a charge back on your CC (and depending on the company circumstances, you might not be able to anyway), you're just going to have to sit tight.

I'm going through something similar at the moment where a company that owes me a few thousand went into liquidation and unfortunately, due to being an unsecured creditor it means I (and the rest of the customers) are at the bottom of the list with regards to payouts.

The liquidators have to total up the company assets and then pay:

Secured creditors (usually the banks)
Staff (sick pay, days owed etc)
Liquidation fees (which are enormous)

Finally we the unsecured creditors will get a slice of what's left divided between us.
I've had to fill in proof of debt forms and everything so far, so I'd advise you find out who the liquidators are and get in touch with them to proceed from there.

whippet

digiology wrote: »

Just wondering, whats to stop me setting up a company, taking a months worth of orders and declaring myself bankrupt?

what is actually there to stop people doing that is the notion of reckless trading where by the director would be personally responsible for all debts which were encurred recklessly.