Carpenterstown Educate Together school rejected by DoE

daymobrew

Today the Department of Education announced the list of schools that it will recognise for September 2008. The Carpenterstown Educate Together, with its 260 pre-enrolments, 55 of which are Junior Infants 2008, is not in the list.

In relation to the application made by Educate Together in respect of a proposed school in Carpenterstown, the Minister has indicated that because the new model of primary schools patronage is be piloted in this area from September 2008, it is not proposed to approve this application from September of this year. However, given the anticipated continuing increase in primary enrolments in the area, this does not preclude the approval of such an application at a later date.

So, the parents of the 55 children to go to an Educate Together school is being ignored. :mad:

Nevyn

The new model one you mean the one that was ment to be VEC and then they talked the archdioses into taking over ?

What rot!

Zaph

So what happens the 55 junior infants this year? Are other schools in the area expected to miraculously have space for them by September?

Gaspode

daymobrew wrote: »

. The Carpenterstown Educate Together, with its 260 pre-enrolments, 55 of which are Junior Infants 2008, is not in the list. So, the parents of the 55 children to go to an Educate Together school is being ignored. :mad:

So what does it mean - no recognition = no funding?

Nevyn

deswalsh wrote: »

So what does it mean - no recognition = no funding?

Yes.

Zaph

But can the school operate if the parents could fund it themselves, or do the pupils have to go elsewhere?

Nevyn

You think the parents have the money to pay the rent, insurance and the teachers wages ?

daymobrew

Thaedydal wrote: »

You think the parents have the money to pay the rent, insurance and the teachers wages ?

When a school is recognised the Department of Education pays rent, insurance and teacher wages. But all schools still need to do additional fundraising. As the Educate Together FAQ says:

ET FAQ wrote:

How are Educate Together schools funded?
Educate Together National Schools are funded (or under-funded) on an exactly equal basis as other National Schools in Ireland. The State pays the teachers and a series of grants to the Board of Management mainly determined by the number of children attending. Unfortunately these grants never cover the real costs of the school and the school has to run fund-raising programmes to make up the difference. Educate Together’s legal charter prevents our schools discriminating on the grounds of social background, so all our fundraising programmes are voluntary. Together with other management bodies, Educate Together is campaigning for the State to reverse the long standing under funding of primary education in Ireland and radically increase the grant per child (the capitation grant) paid to schools.

Basically no funding = no school.

Zaph wrote:

So what happens the 55 junior infants this year? Are other schools in the area expected to miraculously have space for them by September?

We would hope that most of the parents will have applied to existing schools, and know that some have accepted offers to those schools. I am sure that there are some that don't have a school yet.

Thaedydal wrote:

The new model one you mean the one that was meant to be VEC and then they talked the archdioses into taking over?

The Catholic Church acted as reluctant patron to Scoil Choilm when it was established in a hurry last year. Educate Together, a willing patron, was not even asked to be patron of the school. Minister Hanafin is determined to push the VEC model through whether we want it or not.
Scoil Choilm is the new VEC model school. It is moving to Kellystown (opposite the halting site/St Mochta's football pitch on Porterstown Road) in September 2008. Paul Rowe, CEO of Educate Together, wrote that the VEC method of teaching education promotes segregation.

The Carpenterstown Educate Together startup group will be hosting a public meeting on Wednesday 30th April at 7:30pm in the Castleknock Hotel, titled 'Having a say in local primary education'.

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

When a school is recognised the Department of Education pays rent, insurance and teacher wages. But all schools still need to do additional fundraising. As the Educate Together FAQ says: Basically no funding = no school.

We would hope that most of the parents will have applied to existing schools, and know that some have accepted offers to those schools. I am sure that there are some that don't have a school yet.

The Catholic Church acted as reluctant patron to Scoil Choilm when it was established in a hurry last year. Educate Together, a willing patron, was not even asked to be patron of the school. Minister Hanafin is determined to push the VEC model through whether we want it or not.
Scoil Choilm is the new VEC model school. It is moving to Kellystown (opposite the halting site/St Mochta's football pitch on Porterstown Road) in September 2008. Paul Rowe, CEO of Educate Together, wrote that the VEC method of teaching education promotes segregation.

The Carpenterstown Educate Together startup group will be hosting a public meeting on Wednesday 30th April at 7:30pm in the Castleknock Hotel, titled 'Having a say in local primary education'.

From what i have been told by some people in the know, it was deemed there are sufficient places in other school in the area.

this was am issue that was raised a few years ago about over capacity, but Dept of education said it would never be a problem and the school would go ahead.

I don't know what size/stream school was interned but the dept and educate together had had a few issue over the size of the schools built, i dose looks l like a bit of a cock up as diocese has to many school to look after

and the area probably could do with a bit of diversity

Nevyn

It depends on what you mean by diversity, I don't think lumping mostly all the non catholic children into one school is a good thing. Really the RE program is one thing in schools but when it bounces into other areas ie this week my daughters class all had english homework putting words about making their holy communion into sentences it is a farce.

oblivious

Well if that the worst some has to do to get an education, I can live with that. But if people have a problem lay the blame at the government feet. They had the change to uncouple and directly control the current teaching system but failed to do so over the last decade.

What madness allows a government to pay and “employee” and is not the legal employer

athtrasna

I live in Blanch and thought it no co-incidence that on the day this decision was announced, a leaflet for the new primary school at the Phoenix Park racecourse came in the door?

Are there really enough school places locally? My neighbour treks his 4 kids to the primary school at the church on the Navan Road every morning because they couldn't get into a local school when he moved to the area?

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

From what i have been told by some people in the know, it was deemed there are sufficient places in other school in the area.

With the creation of Scoil Choilm it might be the case, but this VEC model is not the one chosen by the parents pre-enrolled in the proposed Carpenterstown Educate Together school. There were only a handful of parents at the Scoil Choilm open day (evening meeting) recently. We had over 200 at our public meeting.

The VEC model promotes segregation which we don't need any more of. Educate Together will be fighting the decision (2nd story there).

I'm off to drop a few hundred leaflets into letterboxes to promote our public meeting on Wednesday night (ouch, it clashes with 2nd leg of Liverpool/Chelsea).

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

With the creation of Scoil Choilm it might be the case, but this VEC model is not the one chosen by the parents pre-enrolled in the proposed Carpenterstown Educate Together school. There were only a handful of parents at the Scoil Choilm open day (evening meeting) recently. We had over 200 at our public meeting.

The VEC model promotes segregation which we don't need any more of. Educate Together will be fighting the decision (2nd story there).

I'm off to drop a few hundred leaflets into letterboxes to promote our public meeting on Wednesday night (ouch, it clashes with 2nd leg of Liverpool/Chelsea).

I do wish you luck, since educate together is a non parish based system i though you may get some interest from the Ongar Residents Association, as there is supposed to be massive development around there in the next few years and most likely schools will be an issue.

maybe some joined up cross community thinking may but the school back on the plans

Ongar Residents Association Samantha - chairperson.orac@hotmail.com

Ongar Chase Residents Association ongarchasera@gmail.com

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

I live in Blanch and thought it no co-incidence that on the day this decision was announced, a leaflet for the new primary school at the Phoenix Park racecourse came in the door?

In spite of everything the Phoenix Park racecourse school is not now going ahead, only 13 enrolements apparently? Any thoughts on this?

Money Shot

athtrasna wrote: »

In spite of everything the Phoenix Park racecourse school is not now going ahead, only 13 enrolements apparently? Any thoughts on this?

I heard there was 18 enrollments, but they are still getting enquiries and interest. Does this mean anything for the Carpenstertown Educate together decision ?

I live in Dublin 15, and there is definitely a need for a school in the area. Hundreds turned up at the educated together meeting in the castleknock hotel a few months back - people were queing to put names down for 2012 :eek:

oblivious

Money Shot wrote: »

I heard there was 18 enrollments, but they are still getting enquiries and interest. Does this mean anything for the Carpenstertown Educate together decision ?:

Na, the department had begged the parish/archdioses to take over over the the new Carpenstertown school for the first year as the VEC were not in a position to start up a primary.

apparently they did not approach Educate together about running the school

daymobrew

athtrasna wrote: »

In spite of everything the Phoenix Park racecourse school is not now going ahead, only 13 enrolements apparently? Any thoughts on this?

Educate Together has appealed the former Minister's decision. We are disappointed that she pushed ahead with the VEC model schools without consulting those that would be enrolling in them (I do know that the current parents of Scoil Cholim were consulted).

It's good that Scoil Oisin in the Phoenix Park Racecourse is not going ahead - I think we'd be more annoyed if it did.

We'll continue to campaign for an Educate Together school in Carpenterstown.

Starlight100

Just a few points.

At a public meeting in the summer of last year regarding the lack of school places Brian Lenahan asked parents would they be in favour of a new VEC primary school in the area. I, along with most others in the meeting raised their hands in support of the proposed idea.

I believe Educate Together said that they would NOT be interested in a school in Carpenterstown as they like to keep their schools small and feared that a school in this area could turn out to be too big.

I was at Schoil Cholim's open night and there was more than a handful of parents.

Schoil Cholim does not promote segregation.

Schoil Cholim is a lovely school. Dedicated teachers, small class sizes, lots of facilities. A great spirit about it.

I am sending my child to SC this year, and I urge all parents, don't knock it until you have been to visit it yourself - it might not be that far off from the ET school you are trying to get!

daymobrew

Starlight100 wrote: »

Schoil Cholim does not promote segregation.

One issue I have with the VEC model that is being implemented in SC (I phrase it that way to distinguish the new situation from the original model of SC) is that religion is being taught during the school day and involves the separation of children based on religion. This is what I call segregation. Furthermore, only the "main religions" (something that has yet to be defined) will be catered for. What happens to members of the other religions? Do they sit alone and bored in another classroom?

Starlight100 wrote: »

I am sending my child to SC this year, and I urge all parents, don't knock it until you have been to visit it yourself - it might not be that far off from the ET school you are trying to get!

From what we know (as mentioned above), there are critical differences between SC and an ET school.

By the way, the UN Human Rights Committee has expressed concern at the lack of secular primary schools in Ireland.

I hope that all goes well for you and your child in SC. You can see some photos that I took of the building site.

Starlight100

Do you really think that children will sit "bored and alone" in a classroom? Ha, ha!

The children in SC are not segregated during Religous class.

The parents on the comittee are trying to establish a class which is not dissimilar to the one that ET offer.

A good primary school has a lot more to do with how it runs rather than the ethos it goes under. SC has a very determined group of parents on the commitee, who have a very clear idea how they want their children to be educated.

daymobrew

Starlight100 wrote: »

The children in SC are not segregated during Religous class.

Both Brian Lenihan and the recent VEC conference say different.

Starlight100 wrote: »

The parents on the comittee are trying to establish a class which is not dissimilar to the one that ET offer.

I didn't think that the parents had a say - it would be great if they do. When I spoke with Martin of the Parents Association a few months ago he said that they weren't consulted. I heard that he said the same thing at the recent VEC conference (Paul Rowe, CEO of Educate Together, met Martin and reported this).

Starlight100 wrote: »

A good primary school has a lot more to do with how it runs rather than the ethos it goes under.

I agree.

Starlight100 wrote: »

SC has a very determined group of parents on the commitee, who have a very clear idea how they want their children to be educated.

I'm glad to hear about the committee and hope it works out as you want.