Clarification on the Lisbon Treaty.

Fallen Seraph

I was just reading the lisbon2008 information site, and I found myself confused by some of the wording.

I'm looking for clarification on these paragraphs, found ~2/3rds of the way down here. (under the title "Proposed Changes - Power to Change the Treaties")

The Lisbon Treaty also proposes to give the European Council the power to amend the Treaties so as to allow Qualified Majority Voting to operate in certain areas where unanimity is now required. It will also give them the power to apply the Ordinary Legislative Procedure in certain areas where a Special Legislative Procedure applies at present. Any such proposals must be agreed unanimously by the European Council.

This means that any national government may veto such a proposal. If the European Council does agree a proposed change, any national parliament may prevent these changes coming into effect. Under the proposed amendment to the Constitution of Ireland the approval of the Dáil and Seanad will be required for Ireland to agree to such proposed changes. Such changes would not require a referendum in Ireland.

When it says "Such changes would not require a referendum in Ireland" does it mean:

"Such changes would not currently require a referendum in Ireland"
or
"Such changes WOULD currently require a referendum in Ireland, but after the Treaty has passed would no longer require a referendum"

pussinboots

Certainly Vote NO would be the answer in ths treaty.Never buy a pig in a bag!! The only place this lisbon treaty is discussed is on the James Whale (talksport radio) with Nigel Farez NEP , whoo is great at delivering what it's about. He is against it, and he would know everything .

turgon

At the moment such changes cannot be made at all. The treaty introduces the ability to make changes to areas operating under QMV which as said can be made without a referendum.

IRLConor

Fallen Seraph wrote: »

"Such changes would not currently require a referendum in Ireland"
or
"Such changes WOULD currently require a referendum in Ireland, but after the Treaty has passed would no longer require a referendum"

The former.

My understanding is that the Lisbon Treaty will not (and cannot) alter the situation here that has existed since the Crotty case.

Anything substantial will still need a referendum here.

The difference made by the Lisbon Treaty (again as I understand it, I could be wrong) is that changes can be made to the EU without a new treaty. If the change is one that would have previously required a referendum here they will still need one.

ninty9er

IRLConor wrote: »

The former.

My understanding is that the Lisbon Treaty will not (and cannot) alter the situation here that has existed since the Crotty case.

Anything substantial will still need a referendum here.

The difference made by the Lisbon Treaty (again as I understand it, I could be wrong) is that changes can be made to the EU without a new treaty. If the change is one that would have previously required a referendum here they will still need one.

+1

Unanimity also means it cannot be passed if one or more of the 27 governments dissents.

I would urger people like pussinboots to go and find out what the treaty is about themselves instead of listening to crackpots speak about matters which hold no relevance.

The Lisbon Treaty has nothing to do with anything outside of the current competencies of the EU, being mainly:

Foreign Affairs
Justice

This is not like Nice 2, where lines were removed. As for plan B this IS plan B!

pussinboots

;)The Immigration Act needs clarification others outside the eu what will the stance be there as regards the minimum wage or below?
Agency workers that Act, lots of acts to explain
the pollkution act the Social Welfare act . We need full clarity on all those act.
Nigel Farez was elected by the people and is representing his people. He seems to talk a lot of sense to me. He has a web site too