A bridge too far?

jank

What is everyones view to the incidents that happened over the weekend at the Stamford Bridge. Im surprised there is no thread about it already.
And considereing the FA are going to investigate a host of issues like "mele" at the warm down, Hargreaves and Ferdinand having a go at the 4th offical.
Never mind Fergie and Queiroz reaction to the "penalty".

Is this a sign that uinited are starting to crack or just the motivation they need to close out a successful season?

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8699_3487441,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7369207.stm

PHB

United players are saying that one of the lads said something to Evra, Evra demanded an apology, all the grounds staff were shouting to deck him or something, and then people had to be restrained.

Evra is ****ing nuts, like he's absolutely crazy, not somebody I'd mess with.

Either way, it won't get dealt with before the end of the season, and it'll be shushed up. Don't think it'll have any affect whatsoever.

United in public are blaming the ref, but in private are working on how to do better. That's always been Fergie's attitude. In the media blame the refs. In private deal with the situation.

Mr Alan

obviously not that private if you know if PHB or are you just speculating?

Liverpool fan who pushed Neville in the back at Anfield a coupe of weeks ago got a fine and banned from Anfield for life, wonder what we can expect for Rio for assualting a female steward?

grames_bond

news from the utd camp is that some racial slurs were issued which sent evra mad!" how accurate these reporting are is still up in the air! but its an area of football that needs to be stamped out, and if a club is emplyoing people like this it needs to be rectified!

Sherifu

grames_bond wrote: »

news from the utd camp is that some racial slurs were issued which sent evra mad!" how accurate these reporting are is still up in the air! but its an area of football that needs to be stamped out, and if a club is emplyoing people like this it needs to be rectified!

If that were the case it's P45 time.

Nunu

Regarding the warm down incident: Having seen the cctv footage and photos, I can't see how any charges will be brought - not enough evidence. In fact in all the photos the only evidence of anything really serious is the Chelsea official aiming a punch at Evra, so maybe he'll be in hot water.

Ferguson was wrong about the peno incident. As harsh as it was, considering peno decisions we haven't been getting, it was still a peno.
I'm pretty sure Fergusons doesn't really believe it wasn't one, his main goal is to get into the minds of refs that Utd aren't getting their just desserts when it comes to awarding penos to them.

Mr Alan

Word from the Liverpool camp is Evra tried to chop the stewards arm with a machete and threatened to burn his house down.

not really, but its about as valid as the racial slurs comment above.

Utd trying to avoid responsibility for them being awful losers.

event

chelsea have strenuously denied there were racial comments and united would have to prove such a claim. was a joke of a way to act

disgraceful by ferdinand, even if he didnt touch a steward, what is he at kicking a wall. some of ye can say that "oh was a big game, passion, desire etc"

Bullshít. it was petty and childish and no way for a potential club and country captain to act. Capello will not be pleased

gucci

grames_bond wrote: »

news from the utd camp is that some racial slurs were issued which sent evra mad!" how accurate these reporting are is still up in the air! but its an area of football that needs to be stamped out, and if a club is emplyoing people like this it needs to be rectified!

i think united have withdrawn the "racisim" element of the complaint. see here.
Its ugly and shouldn't have happened, but i personally think it was blown out of proportion by the press.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Word from the Liverpool camp is Evra tried to chop the stewards arm with a machete and threatened to burn his house down.

not really, but its about as valid as the racial slurs comment above.

Utd trying to avoid responsibility for them being awful losers.

Hmmmmm.....have a little think about what you're saying there Mr Alan. Don't think somehow that it is as valid. While nobody knows for sure what happened except the people there, it's entirely possible that he was racially abused. I'm not saying that he was cos i don't know either way, but it's very possible. Whereas i didn't see Evra with a machete in his hand and no arson allegations have been made by the Chelsea camp!!

Pretty stupid point to be honest

gucci

event wrote: »

disgraceful by ferdinand, even if he didnt touch a steward, what is he at kicking a wall. some of ye can say that "oh was a big game, passion, desire etc"

Forgot about the ferdinand incident, what was he at seriously?
Kinda reminds me of a nut case i played gaa with, serious player but a serious sore loser. he threw a kick at an advertising hoarding full pelt (and this guy was the sort of fella who knocked over 45yard kicks for fun) and his foot went through the sheet metal and he had to get about 10 stitches on his calf.

kind of knocked the annoyance of defeat off me

Cormic

Does anyone have links to the videos of the incidents? I cannot see anything in youtube.

Nunu

grames_bond wrote: »

news from the utd camp is that some racial slurs were issued which sent evra mad!" how accurate these reporting are is still up in the air! but its an area of football that needs to be stamped out, and if a club is emplyoing people like this it needs to be rectified!

United have distanced themselves from any claims of racist abuse, so let's nip that claim in the bud.

I honestly think this will make Utds season. Ferguson loves the siege mentality, us against them. Everyone bar Utd fans will be slating Utds players now, despite their exemplary disciplinary record the past few seasons.

For the record i didn't like seeing Ferdinand and Hargreaves get so worked up, it wasn't on. They let it all get to them. It won't stop me thinking they ere both excellent players and professionals. I hope one of them is made club captain next season. Obviously Hargreaves tendonitis condition counts against him, but I think he'd make a sensational leader...definitely made of the right stuff.

Dave!

"The security cameras will show the provocation we received - I have never seen anything like this in my career." - Carlos Tevez

What's the likelihood of the video making its way to the public arena? Wouldn't mind seeing it tbh... Still, even if they were provoked, they shouldn't have responded.

Also, that was pretty childish from Rio. Gallas got abused over his antics recently, but Rio is prone to do likewise (booting the ball at a fan comes to mind also).

Mr Alan

monkey9 wrote: »

Hmmmmm.....have a little think about what you're saying there Mr Alan. Don't think somehow that it is as valid. While nobody knows for sure what happened except the people there, it's entirely possible that he was racially abused. I'm not saying that he was cos i don't know either way, but it's very possible. Whereas i didn't see Evra with a machete in his hand and no arson allegations have been made by the Chelsea camp!!

Pretty stupid point to be honest

I was just pointing out that people can say watever they want.

The racial thing annoys me, once thats said it sticks.

Yet there is no reason to think for a second that there was anything to do with racism.

Chardee MacDennis

Mr Alan wrote: »

I was just pointing out that people can say watever they want.

The racial thing annoys me, once thats said it sticks.

Yet there is no reason to think for a second that there was anything to do with racism.

crying racism and then suddenly withdrawing that accusation is akin to the women who claim rape and drop the charges, obviously not to the same extent though. but these women are generally lambasted on here when it happens to footballers, yet when united do it not a big deal is made of it.

Nunu

DaveMcG wrote: »

"The security cameras will show the provocation we received - I have never seen anything like this in my career." - Carlos Tevez

What's the likelihood of the video making its way to the public arena? Wouldn't mind seeing it tbh... Still, even if they were provoked, they shouldn't have responded.

They showed cctv footage on SSN. It was from a stationary camera way back at the far end of the pitch so you couldn't see anything really. I wasn't aware there was anymore footage?

Nunu

Call_me_al wrote: »

crying racism and then suddenly withdrawing that accusation is akin to the women who claim rape and drop the charges, obviously not to the same extent though. but these women are generally lambasted on here when it happens to footballers, yet when united do it not a big deal is made of it.

As far as I kow Utd made no such claims....the papers did and Utd have promptly distanced themselves from it.

Am I wrong?

Chardee MacDennis

thats not the way it came across from the article on bbc. if i am wrong i do apologise.

jank

Sounds like the Pizzagate mark 2, only this time the shoe is on the other foot.
Nobody likes to lose. But taking the high moral ground pointing fingers and then not condeming issues when it happens to you stinks of hypocrisy.

Chong

This is yet another opportunity to have pop at Man U and its fans when they are down.

Chardee MacDennis

Willstev wrote: »

This is yet another opportunity to have pop at Man U and its fans when they are down.

thats absolutely it, man utd did nothing to deserve it of course...

Chong

If they did they did. The media these days love this sorta crap.

Chardee MacDennis

Willstev wrote: »

If they did they did. The media these days love this sorta crap.

well if it is true it should of course be reported on. stop making it sound like United are the victims here.

growler

Willstev wrote: »

This is yet another opportunity to have pop at Man U and its fans when they are down.

an opportunity created by the behaviour of utd's players at the bridge.

Sounds very like Evra has shouted racism to try and cover his ass and then had to back down.

BaZmO*

Mr Alan wrote: »

Word from the Liverpool camp is Evra tried to chop the stewards arm with a machete and threatened to burn his house down.

not really, but its about as valid as the racial slurs comment above.

Utd trying to avoid responsibility for them being awful losers.

Well it was reported on the news so it wasn't as if PHB was just making it up.
Mind you, I hate when you hear the racist card being played as it's very hard to prove and yet it holds so much weight as it's a taboo subject.

event wrote: »

disgraceful by ferdinand, even if he didnt touch a steward, what is he at kicking a wall. some of ye can say that "oh was a big game, passion, desire etc"

I think Rio got that age old expression "Get the man and ball when tackling!" confused somehow. "Man and Ball" Rio not "Woman and Wall"

DaveMcG wrote: »

What's the likelihood of the video making its way to the public arena? Wouldn't mind seeing it tbh... Still, even if they were provoked, they shouldn't have responded.

It was shown on Sky already but it just looked like a speeded up version of Tag Rugby or under 6 football, couldn't make anything out at all.

Nunu

Jaysus, going around in circles here! Can we stop mentioning racism when both clubs have rejected such accusations. Growler where did you hear once that Evra said he was racially abused? He came out straight away when he heard the murmerings about it and said that no such thing happened, for Christs sake!

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Pepe LeFrits

I wonder will Ferdinand retain the armband when Giggs and Neville are absent?

I seem to recall someone here saying Ferguson would never stand for such behaviour when Gallas threw the toys out of the pram.

mike65

I wouldn't trust Ferdinand with my dinner money, and he fancies being England captain.

As for the rest, I dont expect any quick action.

This is yet another opportunity to have pop at Man U and its fans when they are down.

Boo-hoo! A bunch of multi-millionaire professional footballers will cope I expect.

Mike.

BKtje

Personally what i think Gallas did was worse but before people jump down my throat i don't agree at all with the way some of the players acted after the game.

We've all felt frustration (either with ourselves, team mates or officials) and taken a kick at something to take frustration out. I don't mind seeing that kind of thing as it shows passion/hunger*.

*obviously i don't want Rio to be kicking people but he apologised and it seems to have been an accident and accepted by the steward.

I wasn't there afterwards during the warm down but if there was misconduct then i'm sure whoever are responsible will get there cummupence. Whether it be a manu player or someone else.

monkey9

Willstev wrote: »

This is yet another opportunity to have pop at Man U and its fans when they are down.

I know.....and it's great fun too!!

Jazzy

Mr Alan wrote: »

what we can expect for Rio for assualting a female steward?

nah he was probably just filming the latest episode of Punk'd.
that was probably the whole thing... he was punking evra and it all went pete tong

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

citytillidie

Nunu wrote: »

United have distanced themselves from any claims of racist abuse, so let's nip that claim in the bud.

I honestly think this will make Utds season. Ferguson loves the siege mentality, us against them. Everyone bar Utd fans will be slating Utds players now, despite their exemplary disciplinary record the past few seasons.

For the record i didn't like seeing Ferdinand and Hargreaves get so worked up, it wasn't on. They let it all get to them. It won't stop me thinking they ere both excellent players and professionals. I hope one of them is made club captain next season. Obviously Hargreaves tendonitis condition counts against him, but I think he'd make a sensational leader...definitely made of the right stuff.

Will the FA Charge them two the same way they charged Mascerano?

Both Ferdinand and Hargreaves were moaning to the ref the whole game and with every foul given against Utd Ferdinand was in the refs face complaining.

When Mascerano did this Sky Sports and MOTD were all over it, but since it was Man U and more important England players its not been talked about.

PHB

Can anyone show me anywhere at all where anyone associated with United made any claims about racism at all?

Anybody? Cause if not please kindly shut up about it.

cruiserweight

BBC give a synopsis of all of the different stories about this in the papers

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7370535.stm

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

Can anyone show me anywhere at all where anyone associated with United made any claims about racism at all?

Anybody? Cause if not please kindly shut up about it.

http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/evra_racially_abused__tevez_news_254829.html?aff=rss

http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47086

Both quote from the same source, Tevez, and both reference The Guardian. Ok?

Paul Tergat

Hobart wrote: »

http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/evra_racially_abused__tevez_news_254829.html?aff=rss

http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47086

Both quote from the same source, Tevez, and both reference The Guardian. Ok?

and where did tevez say he was racially abused then? by saying a grave insult?

PHB

Sorry, once again, point out for me the claim of racism anywhere? Those quotes just say he recieved a grave insult. Does grave mean racist now?

Hobart

p_larkin99 wrote: »

and where did tevez say he was racially abused then? by saying a grave insult?

PHB wrote: »

Sorry, once again, point out for me the claim of racism anywhere? Those quotes just say he recieved a grave insult. Does grave mean racist now?

One source
close to Evra has told United that a racist comment was made.

From Here => http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.soccer.manchester.united/browse_thread/thread/3dff0bcdeb930614
Also this

Manchester United were last night forced into a *humiliating* climb down
over claims racism was at the centre of the Stamford Bridge bust-up.

United insiders claimed the extraordinary brawl involving their players and
Chelsea staff had been sparked by a racist taunt aimed at defender Patrice
Evra. But Chelsea got wind of the racism allegations and after a telephone
summit between chief executives Peter Kenyon and his opposite number David
Gill, United were forced to retract the claim.

LOL, playing the race card, the last refuge of the guilty.

Allbeit a posting (but I did find it amusing). I think the clue in the links I posted initially, are in the headlines.

PHB

Sources close to to Evra. Ah yeh, very official.

Sure I hear Kaka is on his way to Chelsea for 55 million, sources close to Chelsea said so.

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

Sources close to to Evra. Ah yeh, very official.

Sure I hear Kaka is on his way to Chelsea for 55 million, sources close to Chelsea said so.

PHB wrote:

Can anyone show me anywhere at all where anyone associated with United made any claims about racism at all?

Sorry, my mistake. I thought you had asked the above?

Hang on one second and I'll fly up to Manu and try and get a word with the man himself. :rolleyes:

PHB

I did ask the above. Sources close to Evra apparently initially made the claim, and now have been forced to retract the claim. It's almost as if they made it all up.

Prufrock

Why did the Chelsea ground staff ask them to leave?

Paul Tergat

Hobart wrote: »

Sorry, my mistake. I thought you had asked the above?

Hang on one second and I'll fly up to Manu and try and get a word with the man himself. :rolleyes:

well i took objection to the fact you were implying tevez had said there had been something racial, where as all he said was a "grave insult"


seems like a case of people reading into it what they want!!

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

I did ask the above. Sources close to Evra apparently initially made the claim, and now have been forced to retract the claim. It's almost as if they made it all up.

Like I said (or linked to) the headline of both pieces are "Evra 'racially abused' prior to pitch brawl" and "Evra racially abused - Tevez" . Now, while neither piece has an audio recording of what Tevez is alleged to have said, I'm sure that you will agree, that any 'normal' person reading that piece, who had taken notice of the headline would be well within their rights to deduce that:

a) It is claimed that Evra was racially abused
b) Tevez made such a claim

I think that that would be a fair enough deduction, would you not? It should certainly satisfy your outburst/question above.

That aside, I don't think that there is any doubt about the behaviour of Ferdinand, and his assault on a female steward. I know people are quick to try and defend him, by comparing him to Gallas. And while Gallas's behaviour was childish and ill-becoming, Ferdinand's has to be viewed as reprehensible, no matter what his "I made a mistake" view is on it.

Prufrock

Hobart wrote: »

That aside, I don't think that there is any doubt about the behaviour of Ferdinand, and his assault on a female steward. I know people are quick to try and defend him, by comparing him to Gallas. And while Gallas's behaviour was childish and ill-becoming, Ferdinand's has to be viewed as reprehensible, no matter what his "I made a mistake" view is on it.

Agreed. As a United fan I'd say it was bad behaviour. But why are the ground staff asking United players to leave in the first place? They were in the middle of a warm down. I mean it's bad form to interrupt.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB, in the past few weeks you have gone from probably being the most regarded poster on this forum to being as bad as the most blinkered of fools on this forum. Some of the stuff you have been posting of late on a par with what Alan posts about Liverpool. Sometimes it makes more sense to just hold your hand up and admit that they all acted kike a bunch of retards and should know alot better instead of arguing stupid points or technicalities.

Hobart

Prufrock wrote: »

Agreed. As a United fan I'd say it was bad behaviour. But why are the ground staff asking United players to leave in the first place? They were in the middle of a warm down. I mean it's bad form to interrupt.

I don't think that they asked them to "leave" per se. I think it all kicked off when they asked them to use a different area of the pitch. Allegedly the pitch was been mown as the players where warming down. A member of the ground staff asked them to use the area of the pitch that had already been mowed. Allegedly a player told a member of ground staff where to go, and it all kicked off from there.

They were not asked to leave, just use a different area of the pitch.

Prufrock

Hobart wrote: »

I don't think that they asked them to "leave" per se. I think it all kicked off when they asked them to use a different area of the pitch. Allegedly the pitch was been mown as the players where warming down. A member of the ground staff asked them to use the area of the pitch that had already been mowed. Allegedly a player told a member of ground staff where to go, and it all kicked off from there.

They were not asked to leave, just use a different area of the pitch.

Ah didn't know that. But still they just lost a big game. I'd have had the good sense to let them be. I mean warm downs take all of 20 - 30 mins. Less even. Course I'm sure they're on a tight schedule.