A bridge too far?

Mr Alan

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Some of the stuff you have been posting of late on a par with what Alan posts about Liverpool.

Here! wat the **** did i do to get dragged into this?:mad:

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Here! wat the **** did i do to get dragged into this?:mad:

Hee hee!! This is like a night down the pub! I love it

PHB

Like I said (or linked to) the headline of both pieces are "Evra 'racially abused' prior to pitch brawl" and "Evra racially abused - Tevez" . Now, while neither piece has an audio recording of what Tevez is alleged to have said, I'm sure that you will agree, that any 'normal' person reading that piece, who had taken notice of the headline would be well within their rights to deduce that:

a) It is claimed that Evra was racially abused
b) Tevez made such a claim

I think that that would be a fair enough deduction, would you not? It should certainly satisfy your outburst/question above.

I'm not saying it's not a fair deduction to make, but the question I asked was a simple one,

Can anyone show me anywhere at all where anyone associated with United made any claims about racism at all?

Anybody? Cause if not please kindly shut up about it.

So far, we've had 'a source close to Evra'

That's it.
The media make **** up all the time. Sorry if I don't swallow their crap.

PHB, in the past few weeks you have gone from probably being the most regarded poster on this forum to being as bad as the most blinkered of fools on this forum. Some of the stuff you have been posting of late on a par with what Alan posts about Liverpool. Sometimes it makes more sense to just hold your hand up and admit that they all acted kike a bunch of retards and should know alot better instead of arguing stupid points or technicalities.

I don't think I've defended them anywhere . Everyone knows what Ferdinand is like. Amazing football player. A very very very questionable person. Sure remember when he decided to take his anger at a decision out by kicking the ball full blast into the crowd? At Old Trafford if I'm not mistaken.

As for Evra, see my previous comment,

Evra is ****ing nuts, like he's absolutely crazy, not somebody I'd mess with.

Do I think that they should have acted as they did? No.
Do I think it'll have the slightest effect on their season. No.

Chardee MacDennis

PHB wrote: »

Do I think that they should have acted as they did? No.
Do I think it'll have the slightest effect on their season. No.

based on the reputation of the FA and the bans it hands out it wouldnt surprise me if either of the following happened:

1. Absolutely nothing and we never hear about it again.
2. A few United players get suspended.

Now these are just the extreme polar situations, but IF united players were to pick up a ban Evra would be one if them based on the pictures and losing him for 2 games would effect the rest of the season.

Mr Alan

PHB didnt defend my honour

PHB

You can defend your own

---

Somebody's getting fired:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjCrf9UaihU

prendy

citytillidie wrote: »

Will the FA Charge them two the same way they charged Mascerano?

Both Ferdinand and Hargreaves were moaning to the ref the whole game and with every foul given against Utd Ferdinand was in the refs face complaining.

When Mascerano did this Sky Sports and MOTD were all over it, but since it was Man U and more important England players its not been talked about.

+10000000.

if mascerano gets 3 games for that then surely Rio gets same?
added to the incident with the 4th official in the tunnell.

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

I'm not saying it's not a fair deduction to make, but the question I asked was a simple one,

I presume you're taking the proverbial at this stage? You asked the following:

PHB wrote: »

Can anyone show me anywhere at all where anyone associated with United made any claims about racism at all?

Anybody? Cause if not please kindly shut up about it.

Now maybe I was remiss in actually misinterpreting what you actually meant, but you'll have to excuse me, but I took that you meant that people should "shut up" about anything that they could not "show you" whereby anybody was "associated" with "united" made a claim about "racism".

So I went and found a couple of links, albeit tenuious links, but links all the same. Suddenly, the goal posts change. you want verification?? WTF!! Cop on FFS. How can I verify anything? I can't. I don't work for Manu, I wasn't at the Bridge, so I don't know 100% what happened. You asked for "can anyone blah blah blah..." I supplied the blah, and then you go on to "psycho-analyse" it and discount it. you asked, I delivered, cop on FFS.

So far, we've had 'a source close to Evra'

That's it.

So far you have had what you asked for. What makes it real? 2,3,4,5 sources? Tell me, what exactly?

The media make **** up all the time. Sorry if I don't swallow their crap.

Lol...Great defence.

I don't think I've defended them anywhere . Everyone knows what Ferdinand is like. Amazing football player. A very very very questionable person. Sure remember when he decided to take his anger at a decision out by kicking the ball full blast into the crowd? At Old Trafford if I'm not mistaken.

And you can add the assault of a female member of Chelsea staff to his CV.

Do I think that they should have acted as they did? No.
Do I think it'll have the slightest effect on their season. No.

So a major player in your squad assaults a female member of staff at a football ground, and your main concern is the "effect on their season"? Go you....

Gillie

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not that I agree with it but shouldn't Ballacks have gotten 2 yellows?
One for taking the shirt off and one for going into the crowd after the peno?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

mike65

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/29/manchesterunited.chelsea

Manchester United's lawyers will tomorrow ask the club's players for their accounts of the violent clashes with Chelsea employees at the end of Saturday's game at Stamford Bridge. In particular they will focus on suggestions that Patrice Evra suffered racial abuse, with sources inside the dressing room reporting that Evra had been called a "****ing immigrant".

Those claims will be hotly denied by Chelsea but senior sources at Old Trafford confirmed yesterday that one of Evra's associates had informed them the French defender was subjected to what Carlos Tevez described as a "grave insult". United players who were closest to the scene believe they heard Evra being sworn at and racially abused. It is understood that Chelsea will vehemently deny this and that any allegation of racist comments or any language that could be construed as racist will be strongly disputed.

Mike.

Dave!

The plot thickens......

PHB

Either way, as the video shows, it was your man who threw the first punch, so United players won't be punished.

event

PHB wrote: »

Either way, as the video shows, it was your man who threw the first punch, so United players won't be punished.

eh, i dont think thats how it works

sure if a player hit one on the pitch and the other hits him back, they'll both get done, just maybe one more than the other

PHB

Well if you look at the video, you'll see that Evra never actually does anything to him, except dodge his punch.

Also I think even if he did get into a fight, it's not like on a football pitch where you are meant to be protected by a ref, if some guy hopes on your, you are allowed to fight back.

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

Either way, as the video shows, it was your man who threw the first punch, so United players won't be punished.

The video shows SFA tbh. Is there any possibility that there was sound associated with the video? How would you propose that they pick up this alleged racist comment? To say Evra does nothing is stretching the bounds a bit, does he not actually lunge at the official? Is that not what actually happens? I'm sure I see Evra running into an official, and then him dodging a punch being thrown at him?

Secondly, this is not the whole of the video, merely a scuffle (I'm referring to the link you posted up) .

Thirdly, how come Utd came out yesterday and denied that there were any actual racist connotations, and yet today it appears that "sources inside the dressing room" say that there was? It's all turning into a bit of a PR joke tbh.

PHB

Running up to someone isn't an offence. Punching someone is. Pretty simple distinction. Your man obviously said something that Evra ran up to him, the guy went to punch him, Evra ducked.

Whether this is the whole video I've no idea.

I've no idea what the story is with United. Sources inside the dressing room is still to me just dodgy. Indeed did they ever even get a real source for United denying the things either? The truth will eventually come out.

Fergie summed it up himself perfectly:

"There's one question I want to put," he said. "Why were the lawnmowers going after the game to cut the grass? Were they not supposed to do it before the game?"

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

Running up to someone isn't an offence. Punching someone is. Pretty simple distinction. Your man obviously said something that Evra ran up to him, the guy went to punch him, Evra ducked.

You have admitted yourself that this guy is some sort of a f**king nut. A fu*king nut running at me, would get a bit more than a punch. Also, anything can kick off a f*cking nut, so for you to say that "your man obviously said something", is erroneous and a bit sad, given your previous comment on Evra. Would you not agree that anything could kick off a nut?

I've no idea what the story is with United. Sources inside the dressing room is still to me just dodgy. Indeed did they ever even get a real source for United denying the things either? The truth will eventually come out.

Me neither, it just seems to be being handled in a very very shoddy manner.

Fergie summed it up himself perfectly:

"There's one question I want to put," he said. "Why were the lawnmowers going after the game to cut the grass? Were they not supposed to do it before the game?"

TBH when they decide to cut the grass is sfa got to do with fergie. If asking players to warm down on one side of the pitch as opposed to another sparks this kind of reaction from the like of Evra and his mates, he should be reminded that that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.

Rio should be given a severe rap on the knuckles as well for assaulting a female steward.

rahim

PHB wrote: »

Running up to someone isn't an offence. Punching someone is. Pretty simple distinction.

If you're talking about assault then running up to/at someone can be taken as a sign of aggression. If you fear for your safety you have every right to defend yourself from the offset, you don't have to wait to be punched first. So, Evra running at/towards the Chelsea employee could be interpreted as an act of aggression. Equally, the use of aggressive language can be seen as a form of assault. The key is fearing for your safety.

Edit: I also think all of this may be being blown way out of proportion, tempers were obviously high after the match and all of this could just be handbags.

justfortherecor

The video footage leaked leaves out the crucial bit though, what happened to set both Evra and the groundsman on the collision course. At the moment that seems to be a subjective element with contrasting claims from both sides. Dont know if it will be possible for the FA to get conclusive evidence for that, and therefore it cant really hand out punishments.

Prufrock

Hobart wrote: »

TBH when they decide to cut the grass is sfa got to do with fergie. If asking players to warm down on one side of the pitch as opposed to another sparks this kind of reaction from the like of Evra and his mates, he should be reminded that that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.

When the guys cutting the grass get in a fight with his players it becomes his business. And I still make the point that you do all you pitch maintenance after the game is over and the away team is gone. What are they even doing on the pitch with United players? Makes no sense. I mean warm downs take less than 20 mins. The grass can wait. I mean ffs they just lost one on the biggest games of the season. Let them warm down in peace and use some cop on.

Hobart wrote: »

Rio should be given a severe rap on the knuckles as well for assaulting a female steward.

Heavy fine would do it I'd say.

Hobart wrote: »

Would you not agree that anything could kick off a nut?.

:eek:

BKtje

Rio should be given a severe rap on the knuckles as well for assaulting a female steward.

Surely as it was after the game and outside the ref's jurisdictionn it's a police assault matter rather than an FA one? I'm not sure when the Police take over from the FA and vice versa. Either way it appears to have been an accident, an apology was made and apparently accepted so it's probably up to the steward to bring formal charges or not at this stage?

Whatever happens it's definately handbags and is overshadowing the game of football.

gosplan

Ha, and the attention's been diverted from how piss poor Utd have been of late.

I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie had planned the whole thing - what the hell do a bunch of players who didn't even come on need to warm down for anyway? :D

Hobart

Prufrock wrote: »

When the guys cutting the grass get in a fight with his players it becomes his business. And I still make the point that you do all you pitch maintenance after the game is over and the away team is gone. What are they even doing on the pitch with United players? Makes no sense. I mean warm downs take less than 20 mins. The grass can wait. I mean ffs they just lost one on the biggest games of the season. Let them warm down in peace and use some cop on.

I'm actually not disagreeing with you, but I don't actually think that when the grass is cut at an away ground, is of any business to the opposing manager. The fact that a fight happened, is beside the point. The fact that the players where alleged to be asked to warm-down elsewhere, is also beside the point. A fracas like this should not have happened. People are saying that players where asked to warm down here and not there. People are saying that there was no racial abuse, yes there was, no there was not. People are saying "show me where" and when been shown are picking holes in what they have been shown. There are some undeniable facts:

1) A fracas developed between some Manu players and some ground staff after the game at the Bridge.
2) It has been reported that people in the Manu dressing room alleged that Evra was racially abused.
3) It has been reported that Tevez said that a "grave insult" was hurled in Evra's direction.
4) Manu and Chelsea quickly tried to distance themselves from any racial connotations yesterday, according to media reports.
5) The Guardian newspaper reported that after an interview with Tevez, a source from Manu claimed that Evra was racially abused.
6) Evra, in video footage, is clearly seen running at a steward in an agressive manner.
7) A steward, whether in defence or not, is seen swinging at Evra after he had aggressively run at him.
8) Evra is seen having to be restrained by other players and officials in the footage linked to by PHB.
9) Rio Ferdinand admits assaulting a female steward at the bridge, and leaving stud marks on her shin. He sends her flowers as an apology.

Heavy fine would do it I'd say.

Maybe, depending on how the FA handle it. It could result in a ban.

B-K-DzR wrote: »

Surely as it was after the game and outside the ref's jurisdictionn it's a police assault matter rather than an FA one? I'm not sure when the Police take over from the FA and vice versa. Either way it appears to have been an accident, an apology was made and apparently accepted so it's probably up to the steward to bring formal charges or not at this stage?

Whatever happens it's definately handbags and is overshadowing the game of football.

I don't see how you would call an assault on a female steward "handbags" tbh. Also some 'nut' running around on a pitch after the game, is hardly "handbags", it's at it's most lenient bringing the game into disrepute.

The FA and Police can hold simultaneous investigations into events involving players both on and off the pitch. Can you not remember the whole "drugs" incident with Rio when he "forgot" and when his phone was "off"? That happened off the pitch and the FA still banned him.

Mr Alan

Said before, lad who pushed Neville in the back at Anfield a few weeks ago, got a life time ban.

Ferdinand assaulted a female steward. The minimum he should get is three games.

Won't in a million years happen.

Also SAF post match interview, for almost any other manager would result a fine/touchline ban.

Again, never going to happen.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Said before, lad who pushed Neville in the back at Anfield a few weeks ago, got a life time ban.

Ferdinand assaulted a female steward. The minimum he should get is three games.

Won't in a million years happen.

Also SAF post match interview, for almost any other manager would result a fine/touchline ban.

Again, never going to happen.

In fairness, works both ways.....



Rio ferdinand misses a random drugs test and takes it 2 hours later and passes...8 motnh ban.


U gonna tell me if Derbys right back did the same thing that he'd have gotten an 8 month ban??



Also the fan who assaulted Neville took a calculated decision to do it and thought it was funny afterwards, muppet deserves his lifetime ban. Rio didnt intent to hit the girl and immediately apologised. Not condonign it, cos it was stupid but he showed remorse which that plank at Anfield certainly didnt do.


Also SAF, okay, Im the first to say, he screwed up on Sat and Chawsea (the name of the club according to their song:)) more than deserved to win, but some people around here need to remember that SAF HAS to say things like that. If he were to say "we were sh1t and Chelsea are better" then what chance would u give of United winning the last 2 games and clinching the league?