Ruining my Life

PaulBrewer

As some of you may know from my incessant posting I'm involved in a New Studio in the Midlands.

We've used this as an opportunity to do a few mixes for people of stuff we though was good in order to get used to the room and the gear.

At this stage we've mixed perhaps half a dozen tracks of all sorts of music and recorded in Pro studios and bedrooms.

The one thing all the tracks have in common in that the tuning in manky. What da Phuck is going on? Things are honking left right and centre on guitars and basses, it's bizzare.

This make things very difficult to mix.

So I suggest we make April 29th National Tuning Day, perhaps Ronan Keating could be our Ambassador?;)

Here's the rules -

A guitar can never actually be In Tune as if you listen to a given chord the 3rd will sound more in tune if it's flattened a tad.

Therefore if your A is 'perfectly' in tune your D probably won't be.

So all tuning is a 'best compromise' scenario.

To find this compromise you should follow a few simple rules -

1. If you're not playing you're tuning- at the end of every take tune and retune - it's very easy for something to sound 'ok' by itself with nothing around it but be squawking away like a sea gull in the track when a few other things are added.

2. Tune to the Key - The open strings my not be the ones you play in a part so it's the fretted notes that count . If you're doing a little 4 note riff thing then tune those 4 notes.

3. If you're using a Capo ALWAYS tune after the capo is in place.

4. On the bass F, F Sharp and G are notoriously difficult to tune as they're so close to the nut and finger pressure sharpens the note - this again is particularly difficult to hear by itself i.e with no other tonal reference so I often add bass after some intune guitars are on the track to draw attention to the problem

5. After you've tuned , check it one more time!

The effect of this, I find, is that a part will maintain it's place in a mix where as if there are tuning issues the part moves in and out of the mix in an unpredictable way , therefore disturbing the track.

sei046

I dont think people realise just how much tuning issues BUILD UP. Its not a big issue until you start "lets add another higher acoustic" or "Lets duplicate that on the keys" or something. Then all hell breaks loose and before you know your scraping the perfect takes because the tuning sounded fine to your ears on its own

dav nagle

I worked with a producer who was infatuated with tuning. Thats why his records sounded so good because he was a total bollo$ about tuning. The advice that I will add is this:



Before recording or even tuning make sure to get your intonation checked out fool!

studiorat

It's the jig-saw analogy. If the bits don't fit together properly the whole think will be wonky.

I'd have two rules regarding tuning, firstly don't bring anything into the studio that won't stay in tune. Secondly make sure you have new strings and check tuning before each take, at every possible oppertunity really.

I had a situation with an epiphone guitar last year, the intonation on it was knackered so we didn't bother using the guitar that session. I arranged for the guitar to be brought to a technician to be set up correctly only to find out that the guitar couldn't be set up correctly because the bridge was in the wrong place. Nice one Epiphone!!!!

trackmixstudio

Oh tuning!
The first thing I do before recording guitar is A) get the band to use MY perfectly set up and intonated guitars or set up and intonate their guitars.
I have a Korg rack tuner which is super accurate. Most bands have the boss TU2 pedal tuners and when a guitar is tuned with one of those, the Korg shows how inaccurate they are.

A couple of tuning tips.
1. Try to get the guitarist to use 11s with a wound G for the main tracks. The wound G will stay in tune WAY better and is less likely to get bent sharp by sloppy players.
2. Always tune using the neck pickup with the tone control all the way down and strike the string lightly with your finger rather then a plec. This works way better because when you strike a string with a plec and tone up, the harmonic overtones throw the string sharp. We have all seen the needle on the tuner go way sharp then start to settle in the middle. Tone down on the neck pickup stops the needle "dancing".
3. As studiorat said some guitars DON'T intonate. I have come across this many times. If you intonate a guitar at the 12th fret and harmonic, always check various frets across the guitar and see if they are in tune. If not don't use the guitar. Older Epiphone LPs were notorious for this, but recent ones are ok.
4. Buy melodyne DNA when it is released :-)

PaulBrewer

studiorat wrote: »

It's the jig-saw analogy. If the bits don't fit together properly the whole think will be wonky.

I'd have two rules regarding tuning, firstly don't bring anything into the studio that won't stay in tune.

So Instrumental Music only StudioRat? Ho Ho!:D

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Before recording or even tuning make sure to get your intonation checked out fool!

Great point Dav ...... I wish I'd made it.:o

PaulBrewer

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Oh tuning!
The first thing I do before recording guitar is A) get the band to use MY perfectly set up and intonated guitars or set up and intonate their guitars.
I have a Korg rack tuner which is super accurate. Most bands have the boss TU2 pedal tuners and when a guitar is tuned with one of those, the Korg shows how inaccurate they are.

A couple of tuning tips.
1. Try to get the guitarist to use 11s with a wound G for the main tracks. The wound G will stay in tune WAY better and is less likely to get bent sharp by sloppy players.
2. Always tune using the neck pickup with the tone control all the way down and strike the string lightly with your finger rather then a plec. This works way better because when you strike a string with a plec and tone up, the harmonic overtones throw the string sharp. We have all seen the needle on the tuner go way sharp then start to settle in the middle. Tone down on the neck pickup stops the needle "dancing".
3. As studiorat said some guitars DON'T intonate. I have come across this many times. If you intonate a guitar at the 12th fret and harmonic, always check various frets across the guitar and see if they are in tune. If not don't use the guitar. Older Epiphone LPs were notorious for this, but recent ones are ok.
4. Buy melodyne DNA when it is released :-)

More great points - Interestingly I'm looking at Tuners for a client now and the Korg DT2000 is the boyo. Apparently another company beginning with B makes one that's a dog.....
But I'm only going on thing wot I heard on the Hinternet.

sei046

I happen to have a tuner ( by a company called b and it doesnt rhyme with orange ) and its only ok. Filth cheap but by no standards fast

dav nagle

sei046 wrote: »

I happen to have a tuner ( by a company called b and it doesnt rhyme with orange ) and its only ok. Filth cheap but by no standards fast

The bottom line is that tuning is one of the most boring things to ever do in your life. All studios need a tuner boy, someone who just tunes and tunes and gets paid nothing for his decent work.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

The bottom line is that tuning is one of the most boring things to ever do in your life. All studios need a tuner boy, someone who just tunes and tunes and gets paid nothing for his decent work.

No , listening to stuff NOT in tune is the most boring thing ....

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

No , listening to stuff NOT in tune is the most boring thing ....

Have they not released automated automatic machine heads for guitars yet>?

11811

er the Gibson robot guitar?
www.gibson.com/RobotGuitar

shouldn't you pluck the strings at the twelfth fret aswell to get a more accurate
idea for tuning?

jtsuited

in my experience, it has a lot to do with intonation. A Mexican built fender's intonation will be steady for a few months. But it will need servicing. That goes for the basses especially.
Everything sounds fine until you go above the 7th fret then there's all sorts of funny things going on.

Seziertisch

I got a Peterson Strobostomp II a few months back. Definitely worth the money, especially for some of the presets such as the capo and 12-string settings.

The reality is though that most guitarists are ignorant of the need to intonate their instrument, and even if they are aware probably don't possess a tuner up to the job.

The Strobostomp is also an excellent DI box. It got reviewed for this reason in the last issue of Tape Op.

dav nagle

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

er the Gibson robot guitar?
www.gibson.com/RobotGuitar

shouldn't you pluck the strings at the twelfth fret aswell to get a more accurate
idea for tuning?

Looks nicer than I would of imagined, still Robots need repair, oil etc.. This is a nice idea if it genuinely works perfectly.

tweeky

I'd blame the producer for telling him it "sounds great" and then pressing record. Guitars need to be set up properly for intonation, action etc.
All tuners even those from the same manufacturer can read different, so use a designated "master tuner" to be sure. Tune before each take not each song!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PaulBrewer

tweeky wrote: »

I'd blame the producer for telling him it "sounds great" and then pressing record. Guitars need to be set up properly for intonation, action etc.
All tuners even those from the same manufacturer can read different, so use a designated "master tuner" to be sure. Tune before each take not each song!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I blame everyone ......:(

sei046

I blame Paul personally

PaulBrewer

Seziertisch wrote: »

I got a Peterson Strobostomp II a few months back. Definitely worth the money, especially for some of the presets such as the capo and 12-string settings.

The reality is though that most guitarists are ignorant of the need to intonate their instrument, and even if they are aware probably don't possess a tuner up to the job.

The Strobostomp is also an excellent DI box. It got reviewed for this reason in the last issue of Tape Op.

An is it an actual Strobe Tuner like the original one? .... or a 'regular' tuner with a Stroby looking interface?

studiorat

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Oh tuning!

1. Try to get the guitarist to use 11s with a wound G for the main tracks. The wound G will stay in tune WAY better and is less likely to get bent sharp by sloppy players.
:-)

I love a wound G, used to have one on my tele all the time.
The thing is though, once you get a hurley set up with a particular type of string you should use only those type of strings.

jtsuited

i blame society

dav nagle

jtsuited wrote: »

i blame society

I blame myself

evad_lhorg

if you have a decent guitar you wont have these problems. I sorted out my intonation on my start myself and every note up the fret is in tune.

frobisher

It can be easy to forget to stay on top of it when you're flying along laying down tracks on your own. When I used to record others I was always telling them to tune, tune, tune. When others used to record me I'd tune, tune, tune while tape is rolling back etc. Now I do everything myself at home? Well you can say I've learnt the hard way.

A few months ago I had my electric gtrs set up for my string gauge and for the fact that I play everything tuned down a fret and it makes a big difference. Everything in your signal chain sounds posher when you're in tune. I have a feeling my bass gtr is beyond repair though. God bless auto tune :-)

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

God bless auto tune :-)

Like a lifeboat, Frobizzle ! Only for emergencies!!;)

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Like a lifeboat, Frobizzle ! Only for emergencies!!;)

I grew up on the coast. Lifeboats were for drinking flagons and losing your virginity in. And it is there that this anology ends...

But seriously though. I think auto-tune is more forgiving on basses than elsewhere. It's mostly single notes, changes occuring upon drum hits, lower end freqs harder for the ear to define pitch issues. Generalisations I know but I think it's kinda true. That said, it still doesn't beat tuning.

Seziertisch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

An is it an actual Strobe Tuner like the original one? .... or a 'regular' tuner with a Stroby looking interface?

Nope, it's a strobe tuner in a pedal format. One of my better investments. The consensus seems to be that it is up to the job of intonating. Although, I recently saw this bad boy: http://www.turbo-tuner.com/index.htm

Anyway, this is the article to end all articles on tuning.

http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

Jackie Boy has taken the pursuit of tuning a step further than most.

PaulBrewer

Another one I just remembered....

If you have a a tune with a key change in it, tune in the new key too!

PaulBrewer

http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=123

PaulBrewer

Just bought this!

http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=74

Will report in due course!