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Bookies take hit!

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    #32
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,386 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    In-running at races is very harfd to get an edge,
    events like soccer matches, are much easier to exploit an edge


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    #33
    Howjoe1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    What bookies are these?

    With regards to the hedging, William Hill for example have their terminals linked into Betdaq terminals to lay off any big exposure automatically. It's a done thing, simple as that. The degree to which it's done is unknown and is a varying thing.


    Innocent question, when I signed up to betdaq as an ordinary joe soap, I had to do the usually anti money laundering stuff and confirm that I was not a bookmaker. I assumed that the latter part was on the basis that bookmakers were strictly barred? although a glance at the sums of money and exchanges per event clearly shows it is saturated with bookies.

    On a seperate matter, i know bookies try to operate a 110% book on racing and maybe 150% book on golf events.

    But for match odds on a football game, they appear to operate a 100% book! So how do they make their edge? do they lay in running ? For an example, look at the match odds for tomorrow's UEFA Cup final,


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    #34
    Crumbs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Crumbs


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    But for match odds on a football game, they appear to operate a 100% book! So how do they make their edge? do they lay in running ? For an example, look at the match odds for tomorrow's UEFA Cup final,
    If you take the best price available with different bookies you can usually make a book of around 101% but each individual bookie would normally operate a book of between 105% and 110%


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    #35
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,386 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    But for match odds on a football game, they appear to operate a 100% book! So how do they make their edge? do they lay in running ? For an example, look at the match odds for tomorrow's UEFA Cup final,

    Are you sure you worked it out correctly?

    Football books are generally in the 105-110%, depending on the bet type,
    handicapps are generally at the 105% end, with the matches outright closer to 100%

    I had a look at the UEFA Cup. its a 108% book on Paddy power


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    #36
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,455 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    Innocent question, when I signed up to betdaq as an ordinary joe soap, I had to do the usually anti money laundering stuff and confirm that I was not a bookmaker. I assumed that the latter part was on the basis that bookmakers were strictly barred? although a glance at the sums of money and exchanges per event clearly shows it is saturated with bookies.
    As I understand it the declaration is for tax reasons - as we know gambling winnings for you or me are tax-free as we are just punters. If however we are licensed bookmakers then any profits we make on the exchanges are liable to tax.


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    #37
    Howjoe1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    Mellor wrote: »
    Are you sure you worked it out correctly?

    Football books are generally in the 105-110%, depending on the bet type,
    handicapps are generally at the 105% end, with the matches outright closer to 100%

    I had a look at the UEFA Cup. its a 108% book on Paddy power

    the likes of betfair's book for the CL Final is just below 101%

    PP have 110% book. how do the exchanges make any edge with that small a margin?


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    #38
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,455 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    the likes of betfair's book for the CL Final is just below 101%

    PP have 110% book. how do the exchanges make any edge with that small a margin?

    You misunderstand the concept of exchanges, I think.
    They don't make money on the %overround, they take a commision (2-5%)from each winning bet. So if the book is 80% or 140% it doesn't make any direct difference to them.
    Its the exchange punters who have the problem of trying to make a profit within the confines of a 99-101 lay-back book (+ commission).


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    #39
    Howjoe1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    You misunderstand the concept of exchanges, I think.
    They don't make money on the %overround, they take a commision (2-5%)from each winning bet. So if the book is 80% or 140% it doesn't make any direct difference to them.
    Its the exchange punters who have the problem of trying to make a profit within the confines of a 99-101 lay-back book (+ commission).


    thanks for the informative reply. While I understand that the exchange makes it's money on commissions, is it not feasable for someone laying all in a football match to expect to achieve something greater than a 101% book ?


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    #40
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,455 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    is it not feasable for someone laying all in a football match to expect to achieve something greater than a 101% book ?

    Unfortunately not.
    Lets say I think TeamA should be 5/1.
    So I put up 5.5 on Betfair (9/2) to give myself a margin.
    10 minutes later someone else will put up 5.6.
    Then some gob****e will put up £10 at 5.8 and someone else will put up £2 at 5.9.
    So on almost every decent market you end up with the lay side at 99% and the backing side at 101% (though the real money will often be around the 103% mark (and 97% on lay side).


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    #41
    Howjoe1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Unfortunately not.
    Lets say I think TeamA should be 5/1.
    So I put up 5.5 on Betfair (9/2) to give myself a margin.
    10 minutes later someone else will put up 5.6.
    Then some gob****e will put up £10 at 5.8 and someone else will put up £2 at 5.9.
    So on almost every decent market you end up with the lay side at 99% and the backing side at 101% (though the real money will often be around the 103% mark (and 97% on lay side).

    thanks again, you know your stuff. sounds like i have a better chance backing all at the better odds on offer than trying to lay them all ?


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    #42
    wb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭wb


    The best way to understand betfair is like this...

    Think of two guys sitting at a bar watching a football match. One guy thinks Chelsea will win, the other thinks United will win. They decide that they want to have a bet.

    When they agree the odds, the barman holds the money until the match is over. Afterwards, the barman takes a small cut from the winner for his trouble.

    Betfair is like the barman in the above story.


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    #43
    Collie D
    Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    wb wrote: »
    The best way to understand betfair is like this...

    Think of two guys sitting at a bar watching a football match. One guy thinks Chelsea will win, the other thinks United will win. They decide that they want to have a bet.

    When they agree the odds, the barman holds the money until the match is over. Afterwards, the barman takes a small cut from the winner for his trouble.

    Betfair is like the barman in the above story.

    Nice explanation.


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