Moscow as a CL Final Venue

Pal

I find this a very odd choice for such a big game.

Predict a lot of problems.
Visas, dodgy cops, hooligans, travel arrangements, exhorbitant prices, 2 English teams fans that don't mix well, etc.,

anybody got any view on Moscow.

would you go ?

Xavi6

I guess UEFA want to mix it up and give all the big cities a chance to host what is a fantastic spectacle.

However, two English teams are not going to mix well. The United/Liverpool rivalry is pretty obvious and Chelsea have a well known hooligan fan base. The problems won't be in the stadium, it'll be in the surrounding bars amongst fans who don't have tickets. I think the Home Office in England said they'd impliment a 'No ticket, no visa' policy but I can't see that deterring most fans. I hope it doesn't end in a blood bath but that unfortunately looks like the most probable scenario, whether it's the fans or local police who are to blame.

Having said all that, and in response to the last question, yes I would go. For some it could be the opportunity of a lifetime to see their team in the biggest European final. If City were there it would be an absolute no brainer.

It's not any odder than choosing a stadium in the middle of nowhere in Istanbul.

I do think Moscow is going to be a 'mare for fans.

It's an all-English final which is going to attract the less fragrant element, the Russian police don't take any prisoners and Moscow has its own brand of skinheads who kicked the crap out of some Ireland fans back in 2002.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not any odder than choosing a stadium in the middle of nowhere in Istanbul.

I do think Moscow is going to be a 'mare for fans.

It's an all-English final which is going to attract the less fragrant element, the Russian police don't take any prisoners and Moscow has its own brand of skinheads who kicked the crap out of some Ireland fans back in 2002.

Was a visa required for Turkey?

Tauren

Tauren wrote: »

Was a visa required for Turkey?

No.

kenco

I have posted on this before but I think the big , big issue here is the kick off time (10:45pm local time)

I cant believe UEFA did not compromise on this and bring it back a couple of hours. It was asking for trouble no matter who got to the final (German, Italian, etc teams).

I know the drive is to get the final to some of the countries that need development of the game but doing so in a manner which all but encourages violence and conflict is nuts.

I know several die hard Utd fans who missed out on Barcelona in '99. These guys would love to be at a final but ruled this year out once the details became clear.

Xavi6

Is that still a 7.45pm kick off Irish time?

Sherifu

Xavi6 wrote: »

Is that still a 7.45pm kick off Irish time?

Yep.


This reminds me of the thread on why is the Olympics in China. Moscow does seem like a pain now it's an all English affair.

Xavi6

Sherifu wrote: »

Yep.

Ugh

Dave!

It seems ridiculous to me... Surely it should be as close to the centre of Europe as possible, to make it easiest for fans and teams. It's hard to see how they could have made it more inconvenient.

ibh

DaveMcG wrote: »

It seems ridiculous to me... Surely it should be as close to the centre of Europe as possible, to make it easiest for fans and teams. It's hard to see how they could have made it more inconvenient.

Astana FTW!!!

delija_sever029

I hope it wont be -20 degrees on day of the final:D
Anyway,Moscow,why not,nice stadium,but as you said,visas,a bit far away...i hope they will make it still to be ok,UEFA suposed to know why and who they giving organisation of the final

therecklessone

For a start, it is ridiculous to hold the final in a country which requires a Visa for entry (certainly for fans from those countries likely to reach the final)

I don't care about sharing the wealth, the last time England were in town fans were attacked in their hotel rooms and there was at least one incident of a disabled fan being assaulted.

Personally, I have a big red X on my map of "countries I'd visit for a football match" as my safety is more important to me than 90mins of football.

mike65

UEFA are clueless - Athens, Istanbul, Moscow and Rome next year.

It'll either go really well as everyone will be scared of spending time in a Russian jail or its gonna be murder.

Mike.

neacy69

mike65 wrote: »

UEFA are clueless - Athens, Istanbul, Moscow and Rome next year.

It'll either go really well as everyone will be scared of spending time in a Russian jail or its gonna be murder.

Mike.

i think so too

BaZmO*

Xavi6 wrote: »

I I hope it doesn't end in a blood bath but that unfortunately looks like the most probable scenario, whether it's the fans or local police who are to blame.

Read tabloids much Xavi?
I've no doubt there will be some trouble there, but saying "blood bath" is a little sensationalist.

DaveMcG wrote: »

It seems ridiculous to me... Surely it should be as close to the centre of Europe as possible, to make it easiest for fans and teams. It's hard to see how they could have made it more inconvenient.

So it should only ever be held in Germany, Switzerland or Austria?

I do think it's silly having it in Moscow but evry other European city should be fair game.

delija_sever029 wrote: »

I hope it wont be -20 degrees on day of the final:D

Why do people think that it gets cold in Moscow during the summer? It actually has a continental climate so it gets quite hot during the summer.

therecklessone wrote: »

For a start, it is ridiculous to hold the final in a country which requires a Visa for entry (certainly for fans from those countries likely to reach the final)

Agree 100%
It's a stupid decision to hold a European competition outside of Europe.

spockety

BaZmO* wrote: »

Read tabloids much Xavi?
I've no doubt there will be some trouble there, but saying "blood bath" is a little sensationalist.

I don't know you from Adam so I would be wary of calling you naive unjustifiably, but that statement is a little naive.

It could very easily end up as a situation which results in a ban for English teams from UEFA competitions for a few years if Liverpool reach the final alongside United.

patmac

Moscow is the most expensive city in the world :http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/23/pf/expensive_cities/
I doubt it matters where it is there is always going to be a problem for a Man Utd v Liverpool/Chelsea Final, the only good thing is that the cost logistics etc will keep the casual fans those who will go on the offchance that a ticket might be available from going. How much is this going to cost anyway €2500/3000, just make sure your travel agent has tickets this time.

BaZmO*

spockety wrote: »

I don't know you from Adam so I would be wary of calling you naive unjustifiably, but that statement is a little naive.

It could very easily end up as a situation which results in a ban for English teams from UEFA competitions for a few years if Liverpool reach the final alongside United.

I don't know Adam either and I also have no doubt that there will be trouble, I just thought using words like "blood bath" were a little tabloid-esque.

Killme00

spockety wrote: »

I don't know you from Adam so I would be wary of calling you naive unjustifiably, but that statement is a little naive.

It could very easily end up as a situation which results in a ban for English teams from UEFA competitions for a few years if Liverpool reach the final alongside United.

Yes, both Liverpool and Man Utd have a torrid past in terms of fan violence (Liverpool especially). Chelsea have a strong Hooligan element too. Mixing all of these fans with the Russian hooligans just isnt going to go off very well.

I hope this final will be remembered for the football but unfortunately i doubt it very much.

mike65

No visas will be needed I just heard.

Mike.

Xavi6

BaZmO* wrote: »

Read tabloids much Xavi?
I've no doubt there will be some trouble there, but saying "blood bath" is a little sensationalist.

Well I am a journalist and tabloids are where the money's at so.........

citytillidie

Tauren wrote: »

Was a visa required for Turkey?

Yes, however if you had a match ticket you did not need one, people who flew into other cities other than Istanbul were held up until the airport officals got in contact with the goverment about the visa issues as they had not been told about the match ticket been a short term visa

OhNoYouDidn't

If a Russian team qualified for a final in England, all these gripes would hold through with them: their fans would require visas, expensive city with a history of hooliganism.

Europe is a big place and there aren't that many 5 star stadia. Deal with it. The world doesnt revolve around the Ole-Ole brigade.

therecklessone

Killme00 wrote: »

Yes, both Liverpool and Man Utd have a torrid past in terms of fan violence (Liverpool especially).

I'm sorry chap, but knowing people who used to run with that sort of crowd in the 70s I can tell you that Liverpool were very much in the halfpenny place to United. Don't let Heysel cloud your judgement.

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If a Russian team qualified for a final in England, all these gripes would hold through with them: their fans would require visas, expensive city with a history of hooliganism.

Europe is a big place and there aren't that many 5 star stadia. Deal with it. The world doesnt revolve around the Ole-Ole brigade.

Its simple enough.

The vast majority of countries competing in European football with a realistic chance of reaching a major final would need a visa to visit Russia.

The same could not be said of a final held in Spain, Italy, England, Germany, France, Austria, Greece, Holland, Portugal, Scotland...I think you get my point now?

There's a list here

dc69

has anyone seen the stadium?it looks ripe for a holligan fight.I wouldnt be surprised if there is murder tbh

the stadium doesnt look like it is even made for football,its not a proper stadium at all,looks 200 years old.

I can see the images now.people getting battered by the police

OhNoYouDidn't

therecklessone wrote: »

Its simple enough.

The vast majority of countries competing in European football with a realistic chance of reaching a major final would need a visa to visit Russia.

The same could not be said of a final held in Spain, Italy, England, Germany, France, Austria, Greece, Holland, Portugal, Scotland...I think you get my point now?

There's a list here

So a criteria for where a final should be held should be who is likely to qualify?

Moscow is the biggest city in Europe with a qualifying five star stadium and all the other boxes ticked like enough hotel rooms. Now you are saying they should be excluded because the Brits shouldnt have to travel?

UEFA has a broader remit than the EU....

OhNoYouDidn't

dc69 wrote: »

has anyone seen the stadium?it looks ripe for a holligan fight.I wouldnt be surprised if there is murder tbh

the stadium doesnt look like it is even made for football,its not a proper stadium at all,looks 200 years old.

I can see the images now.people getting battered by the police

Well if that looks 200 years old....

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/photo/competitions/ucl/464253_mediumsquare.jpg

Killme00

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm sorry chap, but knowing people who used to run with that sort of crowd in the 70s I can tell you that Liverpool were very much in the halfpenny place to United. Don't let Heysel cloud your judgement.

Im not, i clearly said that BOTH Utd and Liverpool have had a torrid past in relation to violence.

AND that wasnt the point i was trying to make. I hope this final will be remembered for the football

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Moscow is the biggest city in Europe with a qualifying five star stadium and all the other boxes ticked like enough hotel rooms. Now you are saying they should be excluded because the Brits shouldnt have to travel?

Its got nothing to do with the Brits.

I'm saying common sense suggests that the final should be held somewhere that is relatively easy to travel to and also has as few access restrictions as possible.

I couldn't care who is in the final, you obviously do.

dc69

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Well if that looks 200 years old....

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/photo/competitions/ucl/464253_mediumsquare.jpg

the vidoes/picures I saw on ssn tell a different story,looks a kip.

that pic does look good though.

therecklessone

Killme00 wrote: »

Im not, i clearly said that BOTH Utd and Liverpool have had a torrid past in relation to violence.

You also said:

Liverpool especially

I'm telling you that based on my friend's personal experience, the opposite is the case, i.e. the especially should apply to United.

OhNoYouDidn't

therecklessone wrote: »

Its got nothing to do with the Brits..

You are the one saying the likelyhood of them being in the final should be factored in to the choice of venue....

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm saying common sense suggests that the final should be held somewhere that is relatively easy to travel to and also has as few access restrictions as possible..

Common sense says Moscow is as easy to get to as most of the places you listed, moreso than Glasgow, and the visa requirements have been waived, so whats the problem?

therecklessone wrote: »

I couldn't care who is in the final, you obviously do.

Don't care one iota. The point is the whinging on here as soon as people realise what has been common knowledge for 3 years.

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You are the one saying the likelyhood of them being in the final should be factored in to the choice of venue....

I said the likelihood of a finalist, I didn't specify nationality.

Its not my fault that English sides have reached the final, blame the Spanish and Italians who couldn't beat them.

OhNoYouDidn't

therecklessone wrote: »

I said the likelihood of a finalist, I didn't specify nationality.

Its not my fault that English sides have reached the final, blame the Spanish and Italians who couldn't beat them.

So what are you actually arguing? That the final should be in Paris every year because its the central point between Engerland, Spain and Italy?

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Common sense says Moscow is as easy to get to as most of the places you listed, moreso than Glasgow, and the visa requirements have been waived, so whats the problem?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7373897.stm

"We are finalising an express way to get visas," Uefa spokesman William Gaillard told BBC Sport.

"We've had extreme goodwill from the Russian government to make it easy for fans. It will be a major breakthrough."

Only now they're dealing with it, surely they've known for three years this would be a possibility?

There are unconfirmed reports that supporters may not need a visa if they possess a valid match ticket and passport.

In a statement, the Russian Embassy has acknowledged the "extremely tight" timeframe but promised additional staff to cope with the heavy demand and assured fans their visas will be duly processed.

Already accomodation in the Russian capital is scarce, if not completely booked up, while tickets for flights to Moscow are virtually full - or fetching massively inflated sums of money.

On Tuesday, a spokesperson for the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office Embassy said: "We would encourage supporters not to travel if they do not have a ticket or accommodation beforehand."

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So what are you actually arguing? That the final should be in Paris every year because its the central point between Engerland, Spain and Italy?

It's spelt E N G L A N D.

Though you might have difficulty seeing the letters on your keyboard with that massive chip on your shoulder obscuring your view.

I'm arguing that if the Russians (or anyone else) are to be awarded major finals it should be on the understanding that they will guarantee access to their country for any ticket holder. And that should have been guaranteed when they submitted their bid, not in the days before the final itself.

Isn't that a simple enough request?

4-age

BaZmO* wrote: »

Originally Posted by DaveMcG View Post
It seems ridiculous to me... Surely it should be as close to the centre of Europe as possible, to make it easiest for fans and teams. It's hard to see how they could have made it more inconvenient.


I do think it's silly having it in Moscow but evry other European city should be fair game.



So it should only ever be held in Germany, Switzerland or Austria?


Agree 100%
It's a stupid decision to hold a European competition outside of Europe.

moscow is in europe and the center of europe is not Germany or Austria:)

dc69

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm arguing that if the Russians (or anyone else) are to be awarded major finals it should be on the understanding that they will guarantee access to their country for any ticket holder. And that should have been guaranteed when they submitted their bid, not in the days before the final itself.

Isn't that a simple enough request?

good point,I agree.

The visa thing is a load of crap,although I do think they should refuse supporters who dont have tickets.

mike65

I think holding the CL final in Paris every year would actually make very good sense, any likely winner is going to come from 2 of 6/7 nations all of which are in WESTERN europe.

England/Italy/Spain/Germany/Portugal/Netherlands/France

Shuffling it around badly run eastern hell-holes which cost a fortune and take 3 days to get to and from makes no sense to anyone except UEFA.

Mike.

OhNoYouDidn't

therecklessone wrote: »

It's spelt E N G L A N D.

Though you might have difficulty seeing the letters on your keyboard with that massive chip on your shoulder obscuring your view.

Zzzzzz

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm arguing that if the Russians (or anyone else) are to be awarded major finals it should be on the understanding that they will guarantee access to their country for any ticket holder. And that should have been guaranteed when they submitted their bid, not in the days before the final itself.

Isn't that a simple enough request?

Simple is a very good word for it. All countries in UEFA have visa requirements for other UEFA states. That is life. Simple is the belief that any criminal, terrorist, asylum seeker etc that happens to get their hands on a ticket should be granted entry to any country on that basis alright.

Have you ever heard of any genuine fan not get entry?

growler

It is a farce to be holding it in a city that certainly isn't able to cater for such an influx of football fans, apparently Moscow has 30000 hotel beds, so someone in UEFA seems to have trouble counting,..... there are no flights available into there now for under a grand, but then why should or would they give a damn about the cost, hassel and travel nightmare a final in Moscow will create for real football fans? They'll have their 5 star hotels sorted and 1st class flights are ready to go, nice meal beforehand a bit of polite applause at the end.


Information from Chelsea suggests that the official club travel package (in and out in 12 hours + 10 hours flying time) will probably cost £600 ish + tickets (£100 +) ,thats in the same month that season tickets are due for renewal ! that means a lot of the lads i know at the bridge are going to have to make a choice between live football next season and a one off final + travel hell. some choice, if we do get through tonite I can't afford to go to Moscow and keep my season ticket, and i've been all over europe, even to istanbul, with chelsea for euro games, but i won't be going :-(
and it really pisses me off having to make that decision , should it come to that :-)



I know that when we played CSKA over there a while back there were numerous horror stories of bent cops, bribes, no proper policing, no police able to actually read what was on teh tickets etc. and plenty of home grown trouble eager to have a go at the chelsea support.

I don't expect a bloodbath at all , too many eyes on Moscow for that. I hope there are plenty of empty seats there too embarass the idiots in UEFA who thought they had football supporters best interests in mind when giving this competition to a city 1500 miles from a country most likely to produce at least one finalist. I hope Platini has a nice time. :mad:

Dun laoire

Maybe eufa could make a decision after the 1/4 finals. Surely that would give enough time to find a destination suitable for the 4 remaining teams

delija_sever029

I think thats too late coz probably host city wouldnt have time to prepare

BaZmO*

4-age wrote: »

moscow is in europe and the center of europe is not Germany or Austria:)

Huh? No it's not. Have a look again.

http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/countries_europe_map.jpg

delija_sever029

Moscow is in Europe,Europe is defined to be everything till Ural mountain,thats border of european and asian part of Russia

growler

suppose it could have been worse, Tel Aviv or somewhere, since they are daft enough to include Israel in a european competition.

therecklessone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Zzzzzz

I can't be bothered interacting with you when that's your input.

Good day.

growler wrote:

Information from Chelsea suggests that the official club travel package (in and out in 12 hours + 10 hours flying time) will probably cost £600 ish + tickets (£100 +) ,thats in the same month that season tickets are due for renewal ! that means a lot of the lads i know at the bridge are going to have to make a choice between live football next season and a one off final + travel hell. some choice, if we do get through tonite I can't afford to go to Moscow and keep my season ticket, and i've been all over europe, even to istanbul, with chelsea for euro games, but i won't be going :-(
and it really pisses me off having to make that decision , should it come to that :-)

I feel for you, but its been a long time since UEFA cared a jot about ordinary fans. Sad but true.

marco_polo

BaZmO* wrote: »

Huh? No it's not. Have a look again.

http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/countries_europe_map.jpg

Kidding I hope?

Pepe LeFrits

Europe isn't a place, it's a state of mind!