BT customers, take note, re: physical landlines

Richard Dower

Interesting call to BT, rang tech support...option 2 to report line faults, basically i was tryna get a new mastersocket installed and the guy on the phone hit me with this. They'll only provide support for the physical line upto but NOT including the mastersocket.

So if your internal wiring or mastersocket gets damaged, you're screwed...they won't come out and repair it nor help you in any way, shape or form.

He told me to go find an electrical engineer.... :eek:
At the start of the call he had the audacity to tell me i was ringing BT not Eircom, and as i explained to him, Eircom won't even TAKE your call unless you have an Eircom account number, that my line rental, phone and BB are with BT and as such THEY should be offering support..how many times have i heard BT say..call Eircom, they really all are scum :mad:

He also told me that this mastersocket fiasco is in the terms and conditions, anyone ever read that section?...i never even seen any BT T&C myself.

L31mr0d

not to be pedantic but this is common knowledge. No telephone provider, afaik, offers technical support further than their exchange.

Eircom have been using this line for years to fob off customers. All they have to say is that "the fault is in the line between your house and our exchange" and they are off scott free from helping you any further.

ardmacha

Very dodgy one. I imagine they are responsible for the Master socket just as Eircom would be, they'd have to get Eircom to repair it. Internal wiring after that is your own business.

Whatever about "technical suppport", you are renting the line, they have to repair it. if you damaged the socket I suppose they could charge you.

admol

It would be the same if you were with Eircom. If you damage the master socket you will have to pay to get it fixed. Being with BT however doesn't help.

smellslikeshoes

Dunno about the master socket but internal wiring is definitely YOUR problem and always has been.

my line rental, phone and BB are with BT and as such THEY should be offering support..how many times have i heard BT say..call Eircom, they really all are scum

As for them telling you to ring Eircom, Eircom own the phoneline not BT. Eircom handle the maintenance and repair of it not BT.

Richard Dower

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Dunno about the master socket but internal wiring is definitely YOUR problem and always has been.


As for them telling you to ring Eircom, Eircom own the phoneline not BT. Eircom handle the maintenance and repair of it not BT.

But you're not an Eircom customer...they won't help you. If you don't have an Eircom account number you can't call them!

admol

admol wrote: »

It would be the same if you were with Eircom. If you damage the master socket you will have to pay to get it fixed. Being with BT however doesn't help.

Not true..

Had mine fixed today free of Charge. I'm with Eircom

dub45

Surely the position has always been that you report any faults to your supplier and it is then up to them to contact Eircom. They have the business relationship with Eircom not you.

ardmacha

I had Eircom repair my master socket a couple of years ago, just before I moved . No charge.

If Comreg were any use, then they would have an immediate €1000 fine for any technical support of a reseller who says "Call Eircom".

youcrazyjesus!

I'm having a problem with my home phone line. Loads of static interference. It's intermittently affecting broadband too.

I rang BT's fault service, who investigated the call, they passed it on to Eircom who tested the line - but only the voice frequencies - and they said it was clean. The BT guy called back and told me that the next step was to ring BT internet's customer support and have them test the broadband frequencies to see if they could identify a fault and if so it's a case of noise spilling over onto the voice frequencies. BT could take it further in that case. If they find nothing it's down to internal wiring and I am to get out an engineer myself.

That's just my experience.

Spoke with Eircom sales there, thinking of moving back to them, but they say it's the same with them. If it's internal wiring they won't send anybody out.

dub45

ardmacha wrote: »

I had Eircom repair my master socket a couple of years ago, just before I moved . No charge.

If Comreg were any use, then they would have an immediate €1000 fine for any technical support of a reseller who says "Call Eircom".

The UTV disease is spreading:)

jor el

I always thought that line rental covered everything from the exchange to the master socket, that's the whole line. Anything after the master socket would be internal wiring, in my opinion anyway. I know I've had sockets replaced for free by eircom before.

If you're a BT customer and pay them the line rental, this still goes 100% to eircom. BT should take your line query and pass it on to eircom. Maybe be a bit vague about the problem, say the line keeps dropping calls or something and get them to log it with eircom. If eircom send an engineer out he'll replace any dodgy socket first to see if that does the trick.

bealtine

ardmacha wrote: »

I had Eircom repair my master socket a couple of years ago, just before I moved . No charge.

If Comreg were any use, then they would have an immediate €1000 fine for any technical support of a reseller who says "Call Eircom".

I thought I'd just clarify this having been down this road a few times and now have the correct definitions in writing:)

Eircom own up to AND including the master socket. Anything after the master socket e.g. internal wiring is your problem.

Your provider, the one you pay your bills to, are the ones you contact when you have a line fault, it is up to your provider to contact eircom.
Eircom will then make an attempt to repair the line or just dodge the issue, who knows. They will then inform your supplier who then informs you.
Round and Round you go for a while.
Eventually you may or may not get the fault fixed.

Last but not least, Comreg are utterly useless and worthless liars.

jor el

bealtine wrote: »

I thought I'd just clarify this having been down this road a few times and now have the correct definitions in writing:)

Who gave you this? Was it Comreg, eircom, your own provider, or did you get it somewhere else?

bealtine

jor el wrote: »

Who gave you this? Was it Comreg, eircom, your own provider, or did you get it somewhere else?

Part of a legal action, so therefore I cannot say more on the exact details.
Suffice to say it came from both Comreg and eircom.

Richard Dower

I'm reading the BT terms and conditions, can anyone spot the relevent section that states that the mastersocket is not included as part of there TOS governing physical landlines?

http://www.btireland.ie/terms.shtml

Richard Dower

OK, so i called Comreg and here is what they said, they told me that it is a "industry" known fact that comapnies besides Eircom do not support internal wiring or mastersockets...Perlico was also mentioned and i assume others also.

I asked them where in the BT terms and conditions this was in wrting, and was told it's not...lets make that clear, it's NOT in the T&C in writng (according to Comreg), i was told that this was the first time this issue had been rasied with them. So basically if you're a non Eircom customer and have internal wiring or mastersocket issues you're screwed.

You'll have to pay a fee to your provider or Eircom or an engineer you find, i took issue with Comreg about the issue of the terms & conditions, the fact that customers were not and have not been made aware of this in writing, that the terms and conditions lack any info regarding this.

I asked for a case number and that this issue be addressed with BT, basically i feel there should be a relevent section in writing that states what i have said above...it won't help customers, but at least people who DO read and T&C will know what to expect.

bealtine

Richard Dower wrote: »

OK< so i called Comreg and here is what they said, they told me that it is a "industry" know fact the
companies besides Eircom not not support internal wiring or mastersockets...Perlico was also mentioned and i assume others also.

God they do have a weasel way with words...

It is an "industry known" and it is an "industry this that or the other" is a lot of Comreg nonsense. You must have called
during tea break i.e. sometime between 9 and 5. That is always a bad time to call Comreg.

I repeat again the master socket belongs to eircom and the definition is eircom own everything including the master socket.
(Actually it is up to and including the first terminal box)

It is up to *your provider* to call it in regardless of what they think.

Remember this clearly, if you or anybody else even open a master socket you could be sued by eircom (unlikely but you never know).
Therefore the only people authorized to open the back of a master socket are eircom.

The front part where the consumer can connect "stuff" is considered internal wiring.

This is all in the IEEE regs and the RECI documents too.

briantwin

Richard Dower wrote: »

OK, so i called Comreg and here is what they said, they told me that it is a "industry" known fact that comapnies besides Eircom do not support internal wiring or mastersockets...Perlico was also mentioned and i assume others also.

I asked them where in the BT terms and conditions this was in wrting, and was told it's not...lets make that clear, it's NOT in the T&C in writng (according to Comreg), i was told that this was the first time this issue had been rasied with them. So basically if you're a non Eircom customer and have internal wiring or mastersocket issues you're screwed.

You'll have to pay a fee to your provider or Eircom or an engineer you find, i took issue with Comreg about the issue of the terms & conditions, the fact that customers were not and have not been made aware of this in writing, that the terms and conditions lack any info regarding this.

I asked for a case number and that this issue be addressed with BT, basically i feel there should be a relevent section in writing that states what i have said above...it won't help customers, but at least people who DO read and T&C will know what to expect.

Im glad that at least you raised the issue with ComReg. Now maybe there will be more notice taken of the problem. However it has always been widely known that eircom own the exchanges and most of the phone lines. They also own the master sockets in your home too. These are classified as CPE (Customer Premises Equipment).now if you're an Eircom customer it is known that all CPE's are under guarantee (broadband modems,splitters and main phone points.) But because the other providers did not supply the hardware they cannot therefore guarantee it.

Just like if you get a new car but put the old engine out of your old Jaguar into it. The new car supplier will not repair or guarantee the old equipment you are now using in your new car. I know its a crude analogy but i think you get what i mean.

Again i do sympathize with how annoying it is but thats just the way it is and has always been. Im glad that you did contact ComReg and voice your opinion with them. Maybe if more people do the same something may change. At the end of the day it'll all boil down to who pays the engineers who call out, imo it should be eircom as they are the guys who get the nice big lump sum connection fee for the original installation and then the line rental (either directly/indirectly). It makes sense dont ya think......

Richard Dower

It boils down to money, the fact that BT don't want to pay Eircom or an outsoursed engineer to fix lines. But the point has been moved on to customers being given the relevent information in writing, i mean reading this:

15.4 BT reserves the right to alter any terms of this Agreement upon 30 days notice to the Customer. In the event of any such alteration, the Customer shall have the ability to terminate the Service without penalty, by giving notice to BT within 30 days of notification by BT of such alteration, subject to payment by the Customer in full of all charges due prior to the date of receipt of such notice by BT.

Which means they can update and revise there own terms of service with ease.

have you tried to contact Eircom yourself?

I don't recall having to give anything other than an adress when I requested my mastersocket replaced...

briantwin

Richard Dower wrote: »

It boils down to money, the fact that BT don't want to pay Eircom or an outsoursed engineer to fix lines.

And why should they pay them, they didn't provide the faulty hardware and they give the line rental you pay to eircom for upkeep of the network including the exchanges and lines etc and maybe even including CPE.

It may be in the agreement between wholesale providers and Eircom that the master sockets would not be covered. I couldnt tell you TBH.

Richard Dower

Catch 22...Eircom won't entertain your call unless you are an Eircom customer with an Eircom account number.

Richard Dower

briantwin wrote: »

And why should they pay them, they didn't provide the faulty hardware and they give the line rental you pay to eircom for upkeep of the network including the exchanges and lines etc and maybe even including CPE.

It may be in the agreement between wholesale providers and Eircom that the master sockets would not be covered. I couldnt tell you TBH.

It could very well be, internal documents...that customers have no access to and as such are not aware they have to foot the bill if things get broke.

Bohrio

Richard Dower wrote: »

It boils down to money, the fact that BT don't want to pay Eircom or an outsoursed engineer to fix lines. But the point has been moved on to customers being given the relevent information in writing, i mean reading this:

15.4 BT reserves the right to alter any terms of this Agreement upon 30 days notice to the Customer. In the event of any such alteration, the Customer shall have the ability to terminate the Service without penalty, by giving notice to BT within 30 days of notification by BT of such alteration, subject to payment by the Customer in full of all charges due prior to the date of receipt of such notice by BT.

Which means they can update and revise there own terms of service with ease.

That's common to all ISPs, in fact, you will find clauses like that on most T&C, not only BB.

But you are all 100% right when you point out that all this should be explain on the T&C or at least give reference to it.


Anyway, yes, NTUs are AP (Access Provider) responsibility (Eircom wholesale) the problem is that, Eircoms IPMs do not specify where that NTU is and it will only be covered when supplied originally by Eircom, and they will only replace at their discretion and if affects the PHONE SERVICE.

The phone socket will not be replaced under any other circumstance (like when affecting Bitstream service) with the exception of line sharing (aKa LLU), the SLA does contemplate the NTU in it. On any other cases it wont.

Its so bad that for Bitstream/Line Sharing products the telephone line is not covered either, and that's scary.

So its basically at the technician discretion to fix or replace that socket. And they will only do it if it is an original Eircom socket.

The internal wiring is and has ALWAYS been AS (Access Seekers) responsibility, that's BT, Eircom Retail, Smart, Perlico... the difference is that while Eircom Retail do have their own engineers the rest dont (for residential). Doesnt mean that if you are an Eircom customer they will fix your internal wiring but what they can do is install an ADSL Faceplate/splitter on the main socket and disregard the rest. And that's normally on an extra cost.

For all other ISPs is up to the customer to deal with any internal issues.

There is already made procedure where an ISP can send an engineer/technician to a customer's premises to fix the socket or install a faceplace, not even at an extra charge, at the moment is just not possible (with a few exceptions).

jor el

bealtine wrote: »

Part of a legal action, so therefore I cannot say more on the exact details.
Suffice to say it came from both Comreg and eircom.

Say no more. Seems Richard Dower needs to get eircom and Comreg to admit this for him to get anywhere too.

ardmacha

Comreg do not really support the delivery of broadband. However, the OP is presumably receiving telephone service from BT. If the master socket is incapable of delivering telephone, as distinct from DSL, service then they have to fix it.

bealtine

ardmacha wrote: »

Comreg do not really support the delivery of broadband. However, the OP is presumably receiving telephone service from BT. If the master socket is incapable of delivering telephone, as distinct from DSL, service then they have to fix it.

Comreg don't support a lot really, they barely support delivery of telephone services.

Solair

To the OP:

eircom's network doesn't really use a 'master' and 'slave' arrangement like British lines. Any standard RJ11 telephone socket will do the job.
If you've a problem with your phone socket, rest assured that you can replace it without causing any problems.

There is nothing amazing in the master sockets provided by eircom. All they do is allow an engineer to quickly disconnect the internal wiring if he/she needs to test the line. It also carries a completely redundant capacitor that's used for backwards compatibility with very old-fashioned hardwired dial phones.

Other than that they're just a simple 2-wire telephone system using RJ11 sockets, exactly the same as the US and Canada.

The line's usually carried on the orange pair (orange and orange and white striped wires). The blue pair is usually used for a 2nd line (if present).
Just use the red and green terminals on the RJ11 socket (i.e. the centre pair).


If you pick up an RJ11 socket in a hardware store, install it yourself and make sure that the connections that you make are nice and clean and do not use anything other than genuine telephone wiring accessories

For internal wiring, CAT5 is also ideal.

I really wouldn't be bothered getting on to eircom, it's not rocket science and it's not worth the hassle.

I do agree though that BT ought to pass the fault on to eircom though if it's only your first (master) socket that's causing the problem.

Richard Dower wrote: »

Interesting call to BT, rang tech support...option 2 to report line faults, basically i was tryna get a new mastersocket installed and the guy on the phone hit me with this. They'll only provide support for the physical line upto but NOT including the mastersocket.

So if your internal wiring or mastersocket gets damaged, you're screwed...they won't come out and repair it nor help you in any way, shape or form.

He told me to go find an electrical engineer.... :eek:
At the start of the call he had the audacity to tell me i was ringing BT not Eircom, and as i explained to him, Eircom won't even TAKE your call unless you have an Eircom account number, that my line rental, phone and BB are with BT and as such THEY should be offering support..how many times have i heard BT say..call Eircom, they really all are scum :mad:

He also told me that this mastersocket fiasco is in the terms and conditions, anyone ever read that section?...i never even seen any BT T&C myself.

youcrazyjesus!

I'm having major noise problems on my line. Eircom say its internal. I have 2 phone points. I disconnected one from the wall socket (opened it and disconnected the striped wires) and the noise remained on the other line (its noise thats affecting upstream broadband and voice frequencies) and I tried it for both sockets, the same happened when I did the reverse.

Does this mean it's external? I presume there is no circuit when I disconnect one pair of wires from the socket.

I know nothing about this type of thing. Is there a "master" socket or splitting point that both split from somewhere in the house?

Is there any way of confirming whether it's internal or external?

Solair

This kind of thing is a huge problem as eircom doesn't really use a 'master socket' arrangement at all.

In many homes the phones are wired from a central junction box feeding a number of eircom / telecom eireann sockets.

What you need to do is look at the installation and see where the phone line actually enters the house and find out where it goes from there.

Typically the line will either come in to the hall and go to a little junction box about the size of a bar of soap and from there it runs to the sockets. The sockets could be daisy chained, each connecting to the next. Or, they could be wired in a star formation each connecting back to the junction box.

What you need to do is follow the wires!

Disconnect ALL of the extension wiring i.e. you should only have one socket connected to the line.

If there's still a crackle / hiss it's not an internal wiring problem.

If you have a more recent eircom branded white socket that looks a little more like a normal light switch/socket plate it may be a little easier. This is an NTU. In this case just remove the two screws from the front and a face plate will come off. Your internal wiring should be connected to the back of this plate. Behind the plate you'll find another RJ11 phone socket, this is the 'raw line'.

If there's still a crackle when you connect here, it's not an internal wiring problem.

As you can see, it's not an easy / straight forward task and there's no way that eircom can really say 'it's an internal wiring problem' without actually visiting the site. If they do, it's total b/s.