BT customers, take note, re: physical landlines

youcrazyjesus!

Solair wrote: »

As you can see, it's not an easy / straight forward task and there's no way that eircom can really say 'it's an internal wiring problem' without actually visiting the site. If they do, it's total b/s.

2 sockets in the house. Can't see where they go as they disappear into the wall. I remove the plate on one, 2 wires are hooked onto the middle of sets of 3 metal pins. 1 wire attached to 1 set. I remove both of these wires and check the other phone. Still crackle. Repeat the process with the other socket and still there is a crackle. I presume this means this is an external problem but I'm not 100% sure.

Solair

Well, if you've eliminated any problems from the internal wiring it's unlikely to be an internal problem.

If you haven't ever done any DIY work on the phone wiring it's unlikely to be an internal wiring issue anyway. Most of those kinds problems occur when people do their own phone wiring and don't get it right e.g. using speaker or alarm cable instead of CAT5, badly connected junctions or damaged insulation.

I can't see how eircom could have possibly come to the conclusion that it was an internal fault without actually visiting the house though.

Signs of an external fault are usually:

1) Cross talk - hearing other people's conversations on the line in the background or hearing tone dialling noises. This is caused when two cables are coming into very close contact in a junction box somewhere.

2) A low frequency buzz/hum. This is typically caused by a grounding fault where the insulation is damaged on a cable and it's shorting to earth.

I'd say give eircom a ring and tell them to sort it out.

If it does turn out to be an internal issue, you will have to pay for the engineers time if you ask him/her to complete the job. However, they'll often just whack in a new NTU socket and leave all of your internal wiring disconnected thus discharging their responsibility.

Usually their engineers are friendly enough once they actually do get to the site. It's the call centre people who won't send them who are the issue!


NB:

If you have DSL make sure that ALL phones, faxes, answering machines, etc have microfilters fitted. Nothing other than the ADSL modem should be connected straight to the line. The DSL signal is carried to *all* phone sockets, not just the one that the modem's connected to.

If the filters aren't installed you'll hear chirps and/or a hissing noise and your broadband modem will behave oddly/drop the connection if anyone picks up a phone.

Richard Dower

I've heard nothing from BT or Comreg...i was probably a distant memory 2 seconds after i put the phone down.

Gerry1995

I am wth BT and have been trying since 18th May 2007 (yep 2007!) to get my line fixed. There is a lot of noise on the line and can't use it for calls, but ok for BB. When I ring the idiots in BT they test the line with software and tell me it's ok, I insist they report to Eircom and they trot out the line about having to pay because the fault will be in my house. I insist Eircom are responsible up to and including the master socket and we argue some... Then they get Eircom on the job. So todate I have had seven (7) seacht, visits from Eircon technicians/engineers (there's a joke) each time they kneel in fron of the master socket and say, as I have phone watch attached the problem could be mine and may be charged. Each time they find no fault in my house. They have even had a new line installed from the road to my house. So no charge and no fix. These ****ers have no bosses are not resoponsible to anyone and can do as the like. Comreg are a joke and they will tie you up in red tape to avoid helping. So today, with the 7th visit underway I still await rsolution. Eircom confirm they are responsible up to and including the master socket in your house.

Gerry1995

Richard Dower wrote: »

Interesting call to BT, rang tech support...option 2 to report line faults, basically i was tryna get a new mastersocket installed and the guy on the phone hit me with this. They'll only provide support for the physical line upto but NOT including the mastersocket.

So if your internal wiring or mastersocket gets damaged, you're screwed...they won't come out and repair it nor help you in any way, shape or form.

He told me to go find an electrical engineer.... :eek:
At the start of the call he had the audacity to tell me i was ringing BT not Eircom, and as i explained to him, Eircom won't even TAKE your call unless you have an Eircom account number, that my line rental, phone and BB are with BT and as such THEY should be offering support..how many times have i heard BT say..call Eircom, they really all are scum :mad:

He also told me that this mastersocket fiasco is in the terms and conditions, anyone ever read that section?...i never even seen any BT T&C myself.

As far as I know Eircom are responsible up to and including master socket in your house. This is an Eircom link http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/showContent.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@2046252627.1210166724@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadedmljkeihcefeceiedffndffj.0&cid=CallOutChargesRes&site=Res&chanId=-536882381

Richard Dower

Yeah...Eircom, but because my line rental and contract is with BT they say different, BT won't cover the mastersocket.

Solair

BT Ireland would want to get their act together or they will have no customers. They seem to treat paying customers like something that they've trodden on.

dub45

Solair wrote: »

BT Ireland would want to get their act together or they will have no customers. They seem to treat paying customers like something that they've trodden on.

As long has I have been reading boards (and thats a long time!) there has been little indication that BT in their various incarnations have any regard for the customer care side of their business.

Their technical side seems good but look how long they treated people appalligly over billing - look at the deposit fiasco. As I have said many times previously no reputable company would behave as BT have over such a long period.

Solair

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would go with BT, their customer service lets them down so badly. I really can't see any technical advantage to them either as they're mostly just reselling eircom bitstream broadband access so the speeds are the same as eircom and umpteen other providers doing the same thing.

I've had a few other ISPs over the years, including BT and I've found that everyone else was a pleasure to deal with by comparison.

eircom, despite everything, do actually provide very effective customer care and do manage to answer the phone and be friendly.

Smart were absolutely excellent in that regard too, you could get really good support through their online forums and they were extremely quick to answer calls and emails.

Despite what BT clearly think, customer service does matter. It costs twice to three times as much to get a new customer than it does to keep an existing one. The way I was treated by their customer service people when I was with them was so bad that I can honestly say that I wouldn't subscribe to them again even if they were giving broadband away for free. When the Irish broadband market becomes saturated and there's no more room for organic growth they'll start to feel the pinch as customers leave and new customers are hard to get.

eircom are responsible for the NTU ('master socket') and BT saying otherwise is just ridiculous. If they send out an eircom crew, they will deal with an NTU socket problem. It's the network demarkation point and you don't technically have any rights to remove it / change it as it's eircom's property. The deal that BT has with eircom should cover maintaining it.

I would like to know what the legal status of BT advising someone to tamper with eircom owned equipment is.
After all, the NTU is part of the network, not part of your equipment nor part of BT's equipment.

The eircom branded NTU socket is the official demarkation point between the eircom network and your wiring.

Perhaps the OP should write to eircom's wholesale unit and to comreg.

While technically, you can remove the NTU socket and replace it with a standard one you do remove a resistor that is used to test the line remotely in the event of a problem. Without this in place, eircom cannot do a reliable remote line test. It also makes getting to the bottom of a line fault much more difficult if you do have an internal wiring issue in the future as it's trickier to isolate the internal wiring from the line.

I seriously doubt that eircom would be very happy about BT suggesting that the customer owns eircom equipment.

Also, if BT can't get eircom to solve this problem, why are you paying line rental ?! That's what it's supposed to cover!!

Richard Dower

I use BT because they are cheapest provider for me, it only costs €40 every two months for 3MB broadband.

Bohrio

Richard Dower wrote: »

I use BT because they are cheapest provider for me, it only costs €40 every two months for 3MB broadband.

So who is your telephone provider?

BT wont replace your socket if you only have broadband with them.

Unfortunately the SLA for Bitstream products does not contemplate the main socket or NTU... it doesnt even include the telephone line itself.

Richard Dower

BT have my BB, line rental and calls. With the various discounts (which i had to fight for with them for months on end) it works out i pay €40 every 2 months. So you're saying BT won't even support the physical line outside the house??

So if a gust of wind blows it down a 4am....i'm what, screwed?

dub45

Richard Dower wrote: »

BT have my BB, line rental and calls. With the various discounts (which i had to fight for with them for months on end) it works out i pay €40 every 2 months. So you're saying BT won't even support the physical line outside the house??

So if a gust of wind blows it down a 4am....i'm what, screwed?

At 4am you may well be but that's an issue for the personal issues forums I would imagine!

You would report it to BT who in turn should report it to Eircom who in turn should fix it.

Similary you return a defective item to a shop and the supplier ultimately fixes it or whatever.

Bohrio

Richard Dower wrote: »

BT have my BB, line rental and calls. With the various discounts (which i had to fight for with them for months on end) it works out i pay €40 every 2 months. So you're saying BT won't even support the physical line outside the house??

So if a gust of wind blows it down a 4am....i'm what, screwed?

Not only BT, all ISPs. Is up to Eircom to fix it. But this is only in what regards Broadband not the telephone line. By contract, if your telephone line is faulty the HAVE to fix it.

But its not the same for bitstream I am afraid. Its entirely up to them... dont get me wrong they will try to fix it but if doing it gets too expensive they could perfectly refuse and BT (or any other ISP) cant do anything about it.

I think I already attached part of the SLA (which is for public access at eircomwholesale.com)

As Solair has already said, although the SLA does contemplate the NTU/splitter the problem comes on what they consider the NTU.

For example, in some apartment, Eircom's responsibility will end at the juncture box at the entrance of the building (always in regards BB).

As you can see the coper pair is not guaranteed for Bitstream where it is for PSTN.

Anyway if you are looking for a phone socket call tech support (not PSTN but broadband) and they might have one for you. If the agent doesnt know ask him to please ask their 2nd level team they should have one.

Otherwise let me know.