Airport police powers ?

hjs007

just a general question for any airport police out there or any one with some knowledge. I know the airport police operate under the air navigation act but what actuall powers do they have.... thanks in anticipation of your respones

Victor

Essentially the same as a Garda, however they can only arrest, they must hand you over directly to the Garda, they can't detain you.

source

Also they can only arrest on the airport grounds, they don't have jurisdiction outside it.

ojewriej

Do they have their own armed team?

Fyr.Fytr

hjs007 wrote: »

just a general question for any airport police out there or any one with some knowledge. I know the airport police operate under the air navigation act but what actuall powers do they have.... thanks in anticipation of your respones

33. —(1) An authorised officer, in the interest of the proper operation, or the security or safety, of an aerodrome, or the security or safety of persons, aircraft or other property thereon, may do all or any of the following things—

[GA] ( a ) stop, detain for such time as is reasonably necessary for the exercise of any of his powers under this section, and search any person or vehicle on an aerodrome;

[GA] ( b ) require any person on an aerodrome to—

[GA] (i) give his name and address and to produce other evidence of his identity;

[GA] (ii) state the purpose of his being on the aerodrome;

[GA] (iii) account for any baggage or other property which may be in his possession;

[GA] ( c ) order any person

[GA] (i) who refuses to give his name or address, or to produce other evidence of his identity, or

[GA] (ii) who refuses to state the purpose of his being on the aerodrome, or

[GA] (iii) who refuses to account for any baggage or other property in his possession, or

[GA] (iv) who gives a name or address or states a purpose of his being on the aerodrome which is known, or is reasonably suspected, by the authorised officer to be false or fictitious, or

[GA] (v) whom he knows not to have, or whom he reasonably suspects of not having, a lawful reason for being on the aerodrome,

[GA] to leave the aerodrome, or any part thereof, or he may remove such person from the aerodrome, or any part thereof, or he may arrest that person without warrant,

[GA] ( d ) arrest without warrant any person- 4

[GA] (i) who assaults, or whom he reasonably suspects to have assaulted, another person on an aerodrome, or

[GA] (ii) whom he knows to have, or whom he reasonably suspects of having contravened section 12 or 19, or

[GA] (iii) whom he knows to have, or reasonably suspects of having, a stolen article in his possession.

[GA] (2) Where an authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, arrests a person under this section, he shall, forthwith, deliver such person into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with in accordance with law.

[GA] (3) Where an authorised officer arrests a person pursuant to the powers conferred on him by subsection (1) (d) (iii), he may retain in his possession any article which he knows to have been, or reasonably suspects of having been, stolen until it has been established whether or not the article was stolen.

[GA] (4) A person who was ordered by an authorised officer to leave an aerodrome or part of an aerodrome, or who was removed from an aerodrome or part of an aerodrome by an authorised officer, shall not, on the same day, without the permission of an authorised officer, return to the aerodrome or the part of the aerodrome which he was ordered to leave, or from which he was removed, as the case may be.

[GA] (5) Any person who obstructs or impedes an authorised officer in the exercise of any of the powers conferred on him by this section, or who fails to comply with any lawful requirement of an authorised officer under this section, shall be guilty of an offence.

[GA] (6) In this section, "authorised officer" has the same meaning as in section 15 of the Act of 1950 (as amended by this Act).

ojewriej wrote: »

Do they have their own armed team?

No they are not armed. Garda Immigration officers provide inital armed response for incidents in the airport and call in eru etc for back up

hjs007

so basically airport police are just glorifyed security officers really but just on a bit more money by the sounds of it

Eru

They have a substantial amount of additional powers to a security guard.

Surprised they dont have a power to seize or at least hold any item thats illegal or may have been used/may be used in a criminal act. I know that customs / Gardai would be there or primarily responsible for this but would seem prudent to at least allow for the option.

Thinking along the lines of weapons, drugs etc.

Personally I think they should be replaced or amalgamated into the Gardai.

hjs007

no i dont think they should be linked to the gardai. most of the airport police are garda rejects that didnt make it etc trust me i know a few of them.

Victor

hjs007 wrote: »

no i dont think they should be linked to the gardai. most of the airport police are garda rejects that didnt make it etc trust me i know a few of them.

Possibly not a fair comment - lots of people have been rejected by the Garda despite having good policing skills / qualifications, e.g. people who were "underheight".

Note that the Airport Police do other tasks like fire fighting, which wouldn't fit in with the Garda.

There is also the risk of them being dragged off to do other tasks.

And finally, the Exchequer would need to pay them instead of the airport authorities.

Paulzx

Victor wrote: »

Note that the Airport Police do other tasks like fire fighting, which wouldn't fit in with the Garda.

As far as i'm aware once a member of the airport police moves onto the fire crew he is then employed as a firefighter and serves all his shifts in a firefighting role. He is still a member of the airport police but performs only firefighting duties. There's a good few ex airport firefighters knocking around the DFB

sunnyjim

When I was in the DAA, we were told that the job is PFO - Police/Fire Officer. You do both. After first promotion, you go on to be a Sgt in Police or Sub-Officer for Fire.

hjs007

Victor wrote: »

Possibly not a fair comment - lots of people have been rejected by the Garda despite having good policing skills / qualifications, e.g. people who were "underheight".

if you want to be a police man you would join the Gardai yes ? so if your rejected thats the next best option you get a uniform and handcuffs dont you but are only a security officer in reallity. And people who are "underheight" dont ger rejected as there is no height requirement !!!

eroo

hjs007 wrote: »

if you want to be a police man you would join the Gardai yes ? so if your rejected thats the next best option you get a uniform and handcuffs dont you but are only a security officer in reallity. And people who are "underheight" dont ger rejected as there is no height requirement !!!

Not necessarily,some people join it because of their interest in law enforcement/firefughting AND because of their unnatural interest in aviation!:D

CLADA

ojewriej wrote: »

Do they have their own armed team?

No, but they'e a lot of air support.:D

eroo

CLADA wrote: »

No, but they'e a lot of air support.:D

bud dum dum tish!:D

Fyr.Fytr

CLADA wrote: »

No, but they'e a lot of air support.:D

Boo-urns, get your coat!

Eru

hjs007 wrote: »

if you want to be a police man you would join the Gardai yes ? so if your rejected thats the next best option you get a uniform and handcuffs dont you but are only a security officer in reallity. And people who are "underheight" dont ger rejected as there is no height requirement !!!

Not really, they could join the prison service or possible the army and then military police or they could travel to Belfast or England and join one of those police services. Just because you fail 1 interview doesnt mean you dont have the abilities to be a good police officer.

hjs007

eroo wrote: »

Not necessarily,some people join it because of their interest in law enforcement/firefughting AND because of their unnatural interest in aviation!:D

they dont enforce the law the Gardai do ! and they hardly ever fight a fire so if u had an interest there u would join the DFB !!!

Victor

I presume if there is a fire (not in a major building) that they duty crew react to it and another crew is put on standby to maintain coverage for air operations. Obviously if the terminal is on fire the police element will be doing evacuations.

hjs007 wrote: »

And people who are "underheight" dont ger rejected as there is no height requirement !!!

They used to (I used the past tense). So lots of people who are in the Airport / Port Police now possibly didn't get into the garda because of height.

hjs007 wrote: »

they dont enforce the law the Gardai do ! and they hardly ever fight a fire so if u had an interest there u would join the DFB !!!

Its a contingency service. You rarely need it, but when you do, you really, really, need it.

metman

Victor wrote: »

Possibly not a fair comment - lots of people have been rejected by the Garda despite having good policing skills / qualifications, e.g. people who were "underheight".

if you want to be a police man you would join the Gardai yes ? so if your rejected thats the next best option you get a uniform and handcuffs dont you but are only a security officer in reallity. And people who are "underheight" dont ger rejected as there is no height requirement !!!

The airport police always get a bashing and are described as reject Guards or wannabes. I always thought this was unfair as their role is more of a specialised security role within a defined environment rather than a law enforcement role. The folks that do the job (I know two lads in it, one of whom left to join the Garda, so not all Garda rejects ) do a good job and have a good working relationship with the Gardai. In itself the job is a good one, with good training, decent money, great perks (they used to get heavily subsidised travel), an interesting place to work and a chance to specialise in the fire or police side.

What the service does lack as an airport police service (in comparison with airport police here who are a specialised branch of the local police) is:

(1) lack of an intelligence gathering capability, i.e. the Guards will gather and act on their own intelligence and, imo, will only pass on to the APFS (as civilians) that which the Garda think they need to know,

(2) lack of a firearms capability. In the UK airport police are moving exclusively towards all officers being AFOs, mainly because the biggest threat any major airport faces is from terrorism; no point bringing a baton to a gunfight.

(3) lack of ability to investigate & pursue criminals beyond the airport environment. Here airport police will monitor the thieves and fraudsters that operate at all major airports and will investigate their activities and execute warrants at their home addresses etc. If this is to happen in Ireland it will be the Guards doing the investigating, the warrants and the prosecutions.

Despite the above I think the APFS do a good job within their remit. I do think it likely though that the Garda will take on more of a role at the airports as time goes on. Just my view.

Fyr.Fytr

I know one of the former head honchos in the APFS who just recenlty retired and before he joine he was in the Met and was head hunted for APFS. Top bloke and seems to have been very good at what he did, funny thing is all his kids joined the guards lol.

APFS have a role in freeing up Gardai and DFB by dealing with the minor things, like alarms etc.

Also airport fire service respond to rta's in the surrounding roads of the airport and do a good job in extracting people etc, once again freeing up under resourced dfb.

The airport ambualnce is on the go 24/7. With the sheer amount of people travelling through the airport illness and injury are constantly happenening once again, APFS on scene very quickly. normally police footpatrol who decide wether ambulance is needed or not and again keeping dfb/hse free to cover other areas.


They certainly have a place in maintaining the safety of airports and giving other services a dig out.




Now whos going to mention port police

Paulzx

Victor wrote: »

I presume if there is a fire (not in a major building) that they duty crew react to it and another crew is put on standby
.

The airport fire service have a manned standard fire tender. In the event of a fire alarm activation or fire in any building, hangar etc. in the airport they are turned out along with the DFB. They will generally be in attendance at the incident before any DFB tenders and will send back a radio message. All 1 pump stops will be dealt with by the airport tender and the DFB motors are stood down.

If the incident requires more resources the DFB carry on. As far as i'm aware DFB is in control of any building fire whilst the airport fire service controls all aircraft emergencies

Eru

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Now whos going to mention port police

Being phased out as they retire and being replaced with Gardai.

The reasons as stated by MET is exactl why I think they should be replaced. I have also heard of confrontations between the airport police and Gardai over jurisdiction.

Fyr.Fytr

Paulzx wrote: »

If the incident requires more resources the DFB carry on. As far as i'm aware DFB is in control of any building fire whilst the airport fire service controls all aircraft emergencies

APFS inchare of extingushing the aircraft fire and dfb in charge of casulty rescue

hjs007

well the thing is when ever a plane gives a distress signal on there approach etc or contacts the tower to inform them have an aggressive passenger ie sec 33 air nav act the DFB and Gardai are called. If an alarm goes of in the main terminal the DFB respond automatically and gardai always get called to most incidents so its not really freeing up any time the onlt things they deal with are mickey mouse issues which the proper emergancy services would rather not have to deal with so apfs r some use i suppose

hjs007

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

I know one of the former head honchos in the APFS who just recenlty retired and before he joine he was in the Met and was head hunted for APFS. Top bloke and seems to have been very good at what he did, funny thing is all his kids joined the guards lol.

APFS have a role in freeing up Gardai and DFB by dealing with the minor things, like alarms etc.

Also airport fire service respond to rta's in the surrounding roads of the airport and do a good job in extracting people etc, once again freeing up under resourced dfb.

The airport ambualnce is on the go 24/7. With the sheer amount of people travelling through the airport illness and injury are constantly happenening once again, APFS on scene very quickly. normally police footpatrol who decide wether ambulance is needed or not and again keeping dfb/hse free to cover other areas.


They certainly have a place in maintaining the safety of airports and giving other services a dig out.




Now whos going to mention port police

well the thing is when ever a plane gives a distress signal on there approach etc or contacts the tower to inform them have an aggressive passenger ie sec 33 air nav act the DFB and Gardai are called. If an alarm goes of in the main terminal the DFB respond automatically and gardai always get called to most incidents so its not really freeing up any time the onlt things they deal with are mickey mouse issues which the proper emergancy services would rather not have to deal with so apfs r some use i suppose

Fyr.Fytr

So apart from the quicker response times and the fact they call in stop messages very qucikly.


Karlitos port police arnt being replace with guards, replaced by private security companys, go figure

Victor

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

So apart from the quicker response times

When you are dealing with XX,000kh of jet fuel, response time is important.

OK, flip side, would the garda want some of the jobs they do? Static guards, checkpoints, parking*, etc.

* Its nigh impossible to get the Garda interested in parking matters if an area has parking wardens or clampers, unless it actually constitutes a danger to traffic.

Fyr.Fytr

Hence why i said it, when you read it once off its seems like i show their two major functions being meaningless, but it was ment they they are on scene in times dfb could only dream of responding in (no fault of dfb, theres not enough of them and theyre too spread out)

Their quick intervention no doubt means the difference in life or death. plus they have the equipment, 6x6 tenders designed to pump thousands of gallons of foam onto the feul fires, rather that then approaching with a hose reel pumping CAFS onto it

Paulzx

There has been some extremely uninformed comments on this thread about the Airport fire Service and their role. I am a member of DFB and cannot believe why some people seem to thimk that the airport fire service only exists in order to free up DFB and allow us to do other work.


The airport fire service is present on site because it is legally required under IAA and international aviation regulations. The equipment and techniques they use for aircraft fire fighting are far ahead of anything the DFB has available to them. If an aircraft was to explode on contact with the ground we wouldn't get near it. I for one wouldn't be appproaching it with my handheld foam branch with its 15 foot throw. The airport crews however have the capability to extingush this type of fire effectively. With the fire knocked down DFB crews can then get to work on rescue with their airport collegues.


As a side note CAFS is not used on petroleum fires. We do not use it as a foam replacement. It is for use on standard solid fires

Fyr.Fytr

My point exactly Paul, ahh didn't know that about CAFS