Is PC gaming dying?

Moriarty

I'm pretty sure I read recently that the PC games market is significantly larger than the ps3 and xbox360 markets combined. I can't see that changing either. Apparently PC gaming has been dying for a decade at this stage.

Lazy journalism and huffhuff from developers who can't get themselves past Generic Shooter 46.

Azza

Cliff Bleszinski's comments about PC gaming in dissaray have been contradicted by other Epic employees (namely Epics VP) who have stated they will continue to develop on the PC platform.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=93389

L31mr0d

well speaking as a new console user (bought a PS3 for GTA IV ) consoles don't even hold a candle to what a PC can do. I mean first off is the resolution, GTA IV on the PS3 runs at 640p and they've made up for this low pixel count by, what amounts to, smearing vasaline all over the lens of the camera (i.e. using WAY too much HDR and bloom)

I'm not used to being forced to endure this. In a pc game if I didn't like the HDR and bloom I could turn it off and then increase the resolution.

GTA IV is still a great game but the PS3 is already lagging far behind the PC in terms of graphics. I've seen Gears of War and Assassins Creed on both the console and the PC and the console version always looks like a very low resolution version of the game with low quality textures.

I only really bought it to play some of the PS3/console exclusives coming out this year. Also I want to get back playing multiplayer games that don't require you to be online (i.e. SF4, Soul Caliber, split screen games... etc)

Maximilian

thelordofcheese wrote: »

And unless you hands have fallen off you should be able to master the basic task of putting the CD/DVD in the drive.

It's bull****, plain and simple, I could understand if it were a multiplayer game, that'd make sense. But for a game with no online components whatsoever? Valve can go climb a wall of dicks.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to master the sellotaping of my cracked Civ 4 dvd to make it work, highlighting one of the advantages of steam and digital distribution in general.

Hyzepher

i think there is a bigger issue here. Most game stores have very small shelf space for PC Games. This is mainly because there is more profit in console games - both on the volume sold and the now growing second hand market.

The PC gamer today may be more interested in graphic cards and resolutions etc but the vast majority of console gamers don't really care so the caomparsion of hardware doesn't really matter.

The big problem for PC gaming is that all the new gamers are console gamers and eventually the stores will have little or no PC shelf space and no one will want off the shelf PC games.

The only real business model the PC developers can take is the Valve/WoW approach where games are cheaper to develop/distribute and their market is big enough. But these type of games are few and far between - for every Blizzard/WoW there are many dozens of failures.

If you ake the likes of Blizzard/Valve out of the equation the PC gaming sector is in trouble.

Ciaran500

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Oh sweet Jebus, you are joking right? Starforce stopped nothing and introduced problems only for those who weren't bothered circumventing it.

Starforce lasted a long time, it took over a year to crack Chaos Theory but since reloaded cracked Starforce 3 cracks are normally out in a few days. But AFAIK Starforce 4 hasn't been cracked and the ways around it are awkward and hit and miss.

the_syco

Hyzepher wrote: »

i think there is a bigger issue here. Most game stores have very small shelf space for PC Games. This is mainly because there is more profit in console games - both on the volume sold and the now growing second hand market.

Compare the price of a game in a shop, compared to online. You'll usually see a difference. CDWOW has most games around the €30 to €36 mark. Most recent games in the shops seem to be around the €50 to €70...

MooseJam

It may not be going as great as some developers want it to be but there will always be a market for pc games so I don't see it dying, there is never any talk of the graphics card market being in trouble or dying and the two are intrinsically linked ? kind of odd that and I think it shows its all just huff and puff

Sabre0001

the_syco wrote: »

Compare the price of a game in a shop, compared to online. You'll usually see a difference. CDWOW has most games around the €30 to €36 mark. Most recent games in the shops seem to be around the €50 to €70...

And even better on Steam when paying in Dollars!

Azza

Forbes named Nvidia company of the year 2007 and it posted its first billion dollar quater at the end of last year and that was due to the strength of the desktop and mobile graphics card sales.

I don't think Nvidia Amd/Ati, Microsoft and Intel will simply allow a billion dollar industry to just die off.

Retail PC games sales where down last year in America (down to €911 million)but most analyst point out that the games sales where lost to online distrubition services like steam. Combined with a booming casual game industry estimated to be worth €12 billion by 2012 I don't see how pc gaming is just gonna be let die?

Hyzepher you can't just remove Activision/Blizzard and Wow out of the equation to advance your viewpoint. You have to look at the whole sector. Why not exclude other companies for no apparant reason, like remove all EA games from the PS3 or Xbox? There has been failures with both PC and console developers alike as well.

L31mr0d GTA4 on the PS3 actually renders in 690p on the PS3 and 720p on the Xbox 360. I do agree coming from a PC background the games suffers from jagged edges and a vasaline effect and it is quite noticeable and distracting. Having only got into the current generation of consoles in the last few months I have noticed how poor some games are in terms of resolution particularly No More Heroes and Resident Evil 4 on the Wii. The game GTA4 is still pretty impressive though overall.

Maximilian

Azza wrote: »

Forbes named Nvidia company of the year 2007 and it posted its first billion dollar quater at the end of last year and that was due to the strength of the desktop and mobile graphics card sales.

I don't think Nvidia Amd/Ati, Microsoft and Intel will simply allow a billion dollar industry to just die off.

In fairness, Nvidia make more stuff than just PC graphics cards. As far as I know they make chips for both the PS3 and Xbox for example.

Azza wrote: »

Retail PC games sales where down last year in America (down to €911 million)but most analyst point out that the games sales where lost to online distrubition services like steam. Combined with a booming casual game industry estimated to be worth €12 billion by 2012 I don't see how pc gaming is just gonna be let die?

I don't put much faith in retail figures for that reason. Speaking for myself almost every game I have bought in the last 12 months has been by way of digital download. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Azza

Nvidia themsleves stated that profit made in the last quater was primarily from its desktop and mobile graphics card sales.

silvine

Personally I don' think it's dying. COnsoel gaming is going through a flush patch at the moment while things are a bit quieter on the PC gaming front. But I'm sure things will pick up for the PC, as the consoles age.

Maximilian

Azza wrote: »

Nvidia themsleves stated that profit made in the last quater was primarily from its desktop and mobile graphics card sales.

Pretty encouraging news in that case.

stevenmu

Piracy is not killing PC gaming. Developers/publishers are making far more now than they did 10 years ago, and PC gaming wasn't in any kind of trouble then.

What is killing PC gaming is the lack of real innovation. PC gaming has always been far more complex and in depth than the console market, games featured complex controls, intricate intellectual challenges or twitch fps reactions. PC devs would target a game at a user group (FPS fans, RTS fans, Flight sim fans etc) and design a game to suit their needs, and they would try to distinguish themselves from the rest of the genre by adding innovative features, some new gameplay feature better than anything the others did.

These days developers only seem to try and distinguish themselves based on graphics and the amount of advertising and hype they can generate, they sell games not based on the games themselves but on the screenshots and who has the best funded ad campaign. They don't innovate or try to create a unique, novel or complex experience any more. They're so concerned about reaching the widest possible market that every game made has to be playable by a 3 day old mildly retarded hamster, and so instead of creating great games that a limited amount of people will definitely want and race out to buy, they produce grey generic mush that more people may or may not buy depending on how brightly coloured the box is.

And lastly every second game seems to want you to buy a whole new PC. I love upgrading and building new PCs, I really do, I've been at it for years and will be at it for years to come, but you used to only have to do it for the occasional truely exceptional game. And even then it was only if you wanted the best possible experience out of it, most games played fine on much older hardware.

Take crysis for example. I admit I haven't played it so I'm only basing this on what I've heard elsewhere, but it's a beautiful looking game that was hyped to bits, and has all the innovation, depth and complexity of soggy cardboard blended to mush in a food processor.

Azza

Yeah I agree with you stevenmu there is a lack of inovation. Developers rather than trying to appeal to one particular group of gamers are going for an approach of trying to please everyone which results in a middling experience for most people and dissapointment to fans of whatever particular genre the game is in.

I don't think upgrade cycles for PCs are nearly reguired as often as some people suggest. 6 months is not normal time In my experience I found that its more like 18 to 24 months.

Maximilian

stevenmu wrote: »

Piracy is not killing PC gaming. Developers/publishers are making far more now than they did 10 years ago, and PC gaming wasn't in any kind of trouble then.

What is killing PC gaming is the lack of real innovation. PC gaming has always been far more complex and in depth than the console market, games featured complex controls, intricate intellectual challenges or twitch fps reactions. PC devs would target a game at a user group (FPS fans, RTS fans, Flight sim fans etc) and design a game to suit their needs, and they would try to distinguish themselves from the rest of the genre by adding innovative features, some new gameplay feature better than anything the others did.

These days developers only seem to try and distinguish themselves based on graphics and the amount of advertising and hype they can generate, they sell games not based on the games themselves but on the screenshots and who has the best funded ad campaign. They don't innovate or try to create a unique, novel or complex experience any more. They're so concerned about reaching the widest possible market that every game made has to be playable by a 3 day old mildly retarded hamster, and so instead of creating great games that a limited amount of people will definitely want and race out to buy, they produce grey generic mush that more people may or may not buy depending on how brightly coloured the box is.

And lastly every second game seems to want you to buy a whole new PC. I love upgrading and building new PCs, I really do, I've been at it for years and will be at it for years to come, but you used to only have to do it for the occasional truely exceptional game. And even then it was only if you wanted the best possible experience out of it, most games played fine on much older hardware.

Take crysis for example. I admit I haven't played it so I'm only basing this on what I've heard elsewhere, but it's a beautiful looking game that was hyped to bits, and has all the innovation, depth and complexity of soggy cardboard blended to mush in a food processor.

I think that has always been the case - you are being too cynical. I remember when LucasArts point & click games were all the rage, there were any number of point & clickers trying to cash in with nothing new to add. Its nothing new & not exclusive to PC Gaming either.

A lot of the games in the last year did innovate, did push the boundaries. I'm sure there's a ton of examples but to give a few, say perhaps look what Supreme Commander did or Sins of a Solar Empire for that matter in terms of large scale RTS. Bioshock was a great experience. Portal for God's sake. Even COD4 surprised me by doing things a little different & better.

Assassin's Creed while not a great game perhaps introduced this crowd mechanic, which will no doubt be used to better effect by another game.

There's lots there, just in the last year and I've no doubt we'll see more again this year. The next uber-game is surely just around the corner.

magick

i think too many chicken littles here think that pc gaming is dying. If thats the case console companies are going to be in for a shock because modding,copying games for consoles has only begun and i think its gonna be the next big thing for ppl to do. Granted ppl are already doing it now, but im talking on a bigger scale.

Malice

PC gaming is definitely not dying but I think consoles are getting a larger market share. There is definitely a lack of innovation at the moment as Stevenmu said. EA must take a certain amount of responsibility with that. They recycle their FIFA, John Madden, NHL and NBA games every year and laugh all the way to the bank.

magick

intel , nvidia and microsoft decided to make this place
http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/en/index.asp

to promote pc games, yes i know M$ with xbox and promoting pc gaming ,ironing!

AlmightyCushion

magick wrote: »

yes i know M$ with xbox and promoting pc gaming ,ironing!

It's not very ironic at all. Microsoft make money from pc gaming, why wouldn't they promote it? It's like sony promoting their blu-ray players when the ps3 is a blu-ray player.

CyberGhost

Until consoles have: dedicated lagless multiplayer servers, players up to 64 players min, with full servers as with PC, scales as large as PC and full support for K/M, PC gaming won't die.

Besides if PC gaming dies, lots of companies are going to suffer.

Dcully

Yet another example that pc gaming is far from dead- 46 million paying subscribers in China alone spending USD 1.7 billion on subscriptions with almost all games digitally provided and keep in mind this is just one genre ie MMO.
Surely these are figures consoles can only dream of until has been mentioned they get complete lagless servers with vastly bigger numbers and proper mouse/keyboard support
http://www.massively.com/2008/05/04/explosive-growth-in-chinas-mmo-market/

MooseJam

whats the sales like on steam, have they released details and if not why not, I just bought my first game off steam, geometry wars for 3 yoyos, it's bloody hard

thelordofcheese

CyberGhost wrote: »

Until consoles have: dedicated lagless multiplayer servers, players up to 64 players min, with full servers as with PC, scales as large as PC and full support for K/M, PC gaming won't die.

Besides if PC gaming dies, lots of companies are going to suffer.

well, can we get these for PC gaming first, before we start seting it as a target for consoles?

Cunny-Funt

thelordofcheese wrote: »

well, can we get these for PC gaming first, before we start seting it as a target for consoles?

GGPO, and tbh I don't think he was talking about that standard lag we get due to not being right beside the server. I think he was talking about all that extra lag that happens due to **** servers and netcode.

CyberGhost wrote: »

Until consoles have: dedicated lagless multiplayer servers, players up to 64 players min, with full servers as with PC, scales as large as PC and full support for K/M, PC gaming won't die.

Indeed I agree that that will be a big hit for pc gaming but it still wouldnt kill it. But it would be a huge it.

full K/M support in its self would be a ****ing MASSIVE hit tbh, as it would open up a lot of genres to the console that would normally be PC only. As was as of course meaning no more dumbed down FPS games.

CyberGhost

thelordofcheese wrote: »

well, can we get these for PC gaming first, before we start seting it as a target for consoles?

Well, Cunny pretty much answered it.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Indeed I agree that that will be a big hit for pc gaming but it still wouldnt kill it. But it would be a huge it.

full K/M support in its self would be a ****ing MASSIVE hit tbh, as it would open up a lot of genres to the console that would normally be PC only. As was as of course meaning no more dumbed down FPS games.

Would be a huge hit indeed, frankly, I really want all those features realized with next generation consoles, would beat buying a new graphics card every two month.

Sabre0001

Problem with that is that it loses the console set-up. No more just chilling on a couch with controllers stretching across the room...Now you need a desk for K&M set-up. And then extra controller ports if you want to play multiplayer.

Basically, ye are asking for a non-upgradable (and no need to upgrade) PC?...

Cunny-Funt

Your comment makes no sense. No one said anything about forcing users to use KB/mouse. Just the option to use it if they want. And eh, USB ports man. Aint consoles had them since the ps2?

MooseJam

yea can't see keyboard and mouse being used in the sitting room, just wouldn't work