Is PC gaming dying?

Cunny-Funt

No one is saying it would. Consoles don't have to be used like that and personally I prefer the desk set up for gaming anyway. I find it more immersive.
I'd deffo rather the desk set up for FPSs anyway.

Sabre0001

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Your comment makes no sense. No one said anything about forcing users to use KB/mouse. Just the option to use it if they want. And eh, USB ports man. Aint consoles had them since the ps2?

I wasn't saying that they would be forced to use them...What I am pointing out is the negatives to a KB&M combo for a console. Traditionally, consoles are set up - Couch to TV. Now you need desks (for when you want to use the KB&M).

If playing multiplayer, you now need more space as each person has to have room for their own KB&M. Also, there are requirements for a number of USB ports and wireless controllers (KB&M sets) may not work - sometimes the signals can mix up so P1 could end up controlling P2 temporarily, etc.

You have said that it would work (and then seemed to retract it) but I am just pointing out my reasonings for why it may not. And I think my point of "wanting a non-upgradable PC" is perfectly valid and makes sense. But there is a difference in the usage and purposes of the various systems, and the PC set-up has catered for KB&M.

Stev_o

Just saw this on another forum and if one thing will piss of PC gamers into stop playing it ll be this

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125

Bioware Technical Producer wrote:
Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

L31mr0d

Stev_o wrote: »

Just saw this on another forum and if one thing will piss of PC gamers into stop playing it ll be this

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125

Bioware Technical Producer wrote:
Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation...

they will have a crack for this within 1 day. The only people this is going to affect is people buying the game legally.

Malice

Stev_o wrote: »

Just saw this on another forum and if one thing will piss of PC gamers into stop playing it ll be this

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125

Bioware Technical Producer wrote:
Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

What cretin thought that one up? What happens if I buy it, activate it and then for some reason can't get at my PC? So many things could get in the way e.g. hardware/software trouble or even mundane things like real life - Do Bioware now get a say in when I can go on holiday?

Yet again that will do nothing but inconvenience legitimate customers. Anyone who plays a cracked version will have all that SecuROM rubbish bypassed.

Stev_o

malice_ wrote: »

What cretin thought that one up? What happens if I buy it, activate it and then for some reason can't get at my PC? So many things could get in the way e.g. hardware/software trouble or even mundane things like real life - Do Bioware now get a say in when I can go on holiday?

Yet again that will do nothing but inconvenience legitimate customers. Anyone who plays a cracked version will have all that SecuROM rubbish bypassed.

Aye i know its probably the worst idea iv heard in a long time it ll just mean that the hackers will go after this just for the challenge meaning there will be alot more pirated versions out just for the sake of it. Seriously Dev's are becoming paranoid with pirates and yet they dont realise that the main reason they do it is for the challenge of hacking a complex system.

kaimera

heh...securom.

Is that still being used?

Cunny-Funt

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I wasn't saying that they would be forced to use them...What I am pointing out is the negatives to a KB&M combo for a console. Traditionally, consoles are set up - Couch to TV. Now you need desks (for when you want to use the KB&M).

If playing multiplayer, you now need more space as each person has to have room for their own KB&M. Also, there are requirements for a number of USB ports and wireless controllers (KB&M sets) may not work - sometimes the signals can mix up so P1 could end up controlling P2 temporarily, etc.

You have said that it would work (and then seemed to retract it) but I am just pointing out my reasonings for why it may not. And I think my point of "wanting a non-upgradable PC" is perfectly valid and makes sense. But there is a difference in the usage and purposes of the various systems, and the PC set-up has catered for KB&M.

I'm just talking about consoles having full mouse and keyboard options if users WANT to use a mouse and keyboard. Obviously the pad will still remain the primary controlling device. This talk of people using two mice and two keyboards to play a split screen game on a tv is insanity.

The idea of course would be to use it as , like you say, a pc. If the user wanted to. So it would be an advantage to ONLINE multiplayer gaming. Plus make other types of games more enjoyable like RTS and such.

Infact full M/KB support opens up a whole world of possibilities for consoles, while at the same time having no effect on those who want to use it the way they have always used it.

I suppose the only people effected would be online FPS gamers using a pad getting pwned by those using a M/KB. But anyway its the option I'm talking about.

User45701

seraphimvc wrote: »

is it just me that still obsess my strategy and FPS games on pc?:(mouse and keyboard ftw!

Just wanted to agree with this, Anyone remember CnC on the PS1? or even CnC3 on a xbox?

Does not work. lots of games must be played on PC, FPS as well.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Well, no it isn't dying.

Is it being crippled by Piracy? Yes.

If piracy didn't exist the PC as a gaming platform would be a lot more developed and I think we'd see a lot more console exclusives getting released on PC.

Piracy has gotten to the point where all you need is one person with a DSL connection to download the game and then he can share it with his friends. Heck if you lived in a place with only 56k speeds you could split up a download amongst your friends as they are split into rar archives, then combine them, unpack and burn as many copies of the game as you want.

What I think has made piracy explode is the easiness of it and its efficiency. If it took even a week to crack a game you'd get all the impatient gamers not waiting for a crack and just buying it. But as it stands literally hours after release the game can be downloaded with a crack included, and as patchs are released so are cracks of those patchs. The piracy machine has become finely tuned over the years to the point where if its software and can run on a pc you can download it.

The plus side to piracy though is open source games. There are a lot of fine free games out there. Also, companies are resorting to giving games away for free and bundling advertisements in game. Also piracy is pushing the evolution of online gaming. If game developers want people to buy a game they know they have to get them to validate their serial in their online database. If the game has a good SP campaign and MP tacked on as an afterthought gamers will pirate it. If the game revolves around great MP coop campaigns and versus matchs it will sell.

I think EA have stumbled along the answer with Kanes WRath.
Sell the game as usual but include something fans of the game in question cant resist, something you cant download and can only get with a ratail sale.

Kanes Wraith has a RedAlrt 3 Beta in it, sales are high and it would be funny if the expansion sold more than the orginal because a redalert 3 beta is soemthing allot of people would want

AlmightyCushion

L31mr0d wrote: »

they will have a crack for this within 1 day. The only people this is going to affect is people buying the game legally.

Unfortunately that is very true. All these anti-piracy measures should affect the person who bought it as little as possible.

thelordofcheese

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

GGPO, and tbh I don't think he was talking about that standard lag we get due to not being right beside the server. I think he was talking about all that extra lag that happens due to **** servers and netcode.

Poor servers and badly written netcode aren't the sole preserve of console games, infact it's just as common on PC games.

And GGPO? You're just making stuff up now.

tHE vAGGABOND

Football Manager 2008 has been #1 or #2 in the PC game sales charts [Uk and Ireland] for around 17 weeks in a row now. Thats not a freak once off thing cos of GTA or something, this happens every year. Its been up there since it was relasesed in Octovber [or whenever].

Now look at the all formats chart - Its not even in the top 40..

I dont know how folks can say how great PC software is in great shape. The reason there is no innovation is that why spend 10 million+ to develop a PC only title when you will sell a few thousand copies and then see your game warezed to death!

The simple fact is that people are just not buying PC games in shops in any great numbers. If that continues more and more PC game developers will move to consoles [or go out of business]. If you dont make money on your game you cant make another one, plain and simple.

Azza

They are not buying them in the shops as much because they are using online distribution systems to obtain games. Even if they wheren't it would not matter as consoles sell way more anyway. They always have sold more and PC games very rarely break into charts.

Also I was under the impressions that the Xbox 360 did not support a moust and keyboard?

Maximilian

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

the simple fact is that people are just not buying PC games in shops in any great numbers. If that continues more and more PC game developers will move to consoles [or go out of business]. If you dont make money on your game you cant make another one, plain and simple.

I think you are missing the point that an awful lot of games these days are bought online. Retail sales for PC games are only going to decline from now on, as more people switch to downloading. They will never increase. There are no sales figures that I know of for online sales. If you look at the recent Sins of a Solar Empire for example, I understand Stardock had very healthy European sales, despite the fact that you couldn't buy a box in any shop - online only. A retail distribution deal was only agreed recently.

You might as well say that because Music CD or DVD retails sales are either declining or slowing that less people are listening to music and watching movies.

tHE vAGGABOND

I think you guys over estimate online sales tbh. [Note a fair few games have to get releases online only as the publishers wont take a risk on them, so they get offered ****ty deals].

Asking around work here [blokes, and many gamers] only 2 people have bought a game online. Thats another bloke and myself who both bought HL2 over steam.

But since they dont release sales numbers we dont know!

Sins of a Solar Empire

Must say I have not heard of that - looks interesting...

Someone else mentioned

Supreme Commander

. I know some lads who played that a fair bit actually. Im told that after the expansion pack while its a good game it sold very badly [find it in shops? I looked and found it in my 4th game shop - and that was not due to record sales] and pretty good fun its really quite buggy [Im told the AI is totally broken] and they dont intend to fix it as they are porting it to consoles and there is talk of their next game being 360 only [there are community attempts to fix Im told]

Thats another problem which has turned people like me from PC games to console games. They generally just work, as they have to pass testing at the console maker to get pressed. So while some bugs slip by now and again, its rare and the bugs are generally annoying rather than spoiling. PC games often ship 'broken' and have to be patched a few times. As a user that gets old very quickly.

Dcully

The simple fact is that people are just not buying PC games in shops in any great numbers.If that continues more and more PC game developers will move to consoles [or go out of business]. If you dont make money on your game you cant make another one, plain and simple.

Im guessing you havent read this full thread?
Many times its been pointed out about digital distribution on pc.
46 million subscribers to MMO games on pc in China alone this year so far practically all of which were digitally distributed.
Just because pc games dont sell well in stores doesnt mean a thing,it just proves more and more people are acquiring their games digitally,i know i have done for a while now with most of my games.

I read today Bilzzard are offering digital distribution soon also,its quite simply the way to go.

Cuddlesworth

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Football Manager 2008 has been #1 or #2 in the PC game sales charts [Uk and Ireland] for around 17 weeks in a row now. Thats not a freak once off thing cos of GTA or something, this happens every year. Its been up there since it was relasesed in Octovber [or whenever].

Now look at the all formats chart - Its not even in the top 40..

I dont know how folks can say how great PC software is in great shape. The reason there is no innovation is that why spend 10 million+ to develop a PC only title when you will sell a few thousand copies and then see your game warezed to death!

The simple fact is that people are just not buying PC games in shops in any great numbers. If that continues more and more PC game developers will move to consoles [or go out of business]. If you dont make money on your game you cant make another one, plain and simple.

As said before, that doesn't include on-line distribution systems.

Maximilian

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Asking around work here [blokes, and many gamers] only 2 people have bought a game online. Thats another bloke and myself who both bought HL2 over steam.

Fair enough but I for one haven't bought a retail copy of a game for the PC in over year where there was a download option and I have a ton of games (mostly unfinished of course). I'd bet there are far more people like me than not.

Gummy Panda

I prefer digital distribution e.g. steam then retail. I bought bioshock from steam and had no activation problems unlike the retail version.

The only online distribution system i didn't like is metaboli, when i tried to buy NWN2 (couldn't find a retail copy) it said 3 days to download. It wasn't even that big, just the downloader or server was crap. I bought The Witcher beforehand from them and it allowed me to download images myself.

Mass effect i'll probably buy in a shop unless Bioware has a reliable digital distribution system.

Cunny-Funt

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Poor servers and badly written netcode aren't the sole preserve of console games,

I didn't say they were but it IS more common on the consoles. Consoles still have a bit to go in terms of online gaming compared to the PC. Its still early days.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

And GGPO? You're just making stuff up now.

I have no reason to make anything up. GGPO is the biggest step to combat the problem of lag there has been in a while. Hopefully we'll start to see it implemented in more PC games and console games.

There's a lot of talk of it, or a similar system being used for StreetFighter 4

kaimera

Stev_o wrote: »

Just saw this on another forum and if one thing will piss of PC gamers into stop playing it ll be this

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125

Bioware Technical Producer wrote:
Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

Not anymore it seems

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/ea-loosens-spor.html

tman

Dcully wrote: »

I read today Bilzzard are offering digital distribution soon also,its quite simply the way to go.

They do already. My copy of the Burning Crusade was purchased from them online and then downloaded automagically. It would've worked out cheaper to buy a hard copy though...

I can't think of one pc game that I've bought so far this year and we're already in May, compared to last year there just don't seem to be games being put on the shelves that I actually want to buy (The Witcher, Crysis, UT3, Bioshock...)

Stev_o

kaimera wrote: »

Not anymore it seems

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/ea-loosens-spor.html

Thank god for that least they actually noticed what the customers want strange thing for EA to do

Mantel

Stev_o wrote: »

Thank god for that least they actually noticed what the customers want strange thing for EA to do

Not really, EA pulled this crap with Battlefield:Bad Company. When it first came out that you could only buy certin weapon unlocks people on the internets went nuts, EA then say "LOL, j/k! You only have to do some marketing programs to get the unlocks, lol!" and everyone said "oh, well, thats good! At least I don't have to pay. Now where can I fill out this questionaire/whatever after I buy this game Mr. EA?"

In both cases, "You have to do the marketing programs that we're going to announce further ahead" (huh?) before you can get the guns.

EA seem to be on a trend to release insane statements so they get press time and then issue a slightly less insane one with all the backlash used up.

kaimera

kaimera wrote: »

Not anymore it seems

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/ea-loosens-spor.html

Stev_o wrote: »

Thank god for that least they actually noticed what the customers want strange thing for EA to do

Not quite it appears

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/10/bioware-drops-10-day-valdiation-from-mass-effect-pc/

The caveat to all of this, however, is that each Mass Effect purchase will only be able to be installed a maximum of three times,

Glad I bought it on the xbox now. ffs

silvine

A game like Mass Effect has no multiplayer. I can imagine a lot of people will just download illegal copies. They are not missing out on anything. Throw in a good online on the other hand and I'd say sales would rise...

thelordofcheese

Well, i'm probably going to aquire it through means most foul myself, just because of this secureROM business.

Otherwise it was going to be a day one purchase for me.

MooseJam

why isn't piracy an issue for consoles ?

Ciaran500

MooseJam wrote: »

why isn't piracy an issue for consoles ?

PS3 hasn't been cracked
360 requires special hardware (compatible sata card, DVD+DL writer) and you have to void the warranty
Wii piracy is only in its infancy AFAIK, it will probably start getting bigger.

Cunny-Funt

MooseJam wrote: »

why isn't piracy an issue for consoles ?

I know its huge on the DS and it was big back in the ps1 days too (a ps1 could be "chipped", then just slap in a copied game)