Christenings

CerebralCortex

Galvasean wrote: »

Stupid Mammy, because of her there are 4 non Catholics in my house being referred to as Catholic.

I'm down as a Sith Lord. :pac:

Galvasean

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I'm down as a Sith Lord. :pac:

http://www.gayscifinerds.co.uk/images/shows/017/lovingStarWars.jpg

Is that you?

CerebralCortex

Botany Bay wrote: »

Emmm........having heard all the arguments so far, i thought i'd enter another. Apart from your child being considered a sinner or corrupted(absolutely nuts i know). There is the other large elephant in the room that no one mentioned. That is that you are effectively being endorsed/approved by an organisation that facilitated and covered-up at the highest levels, rampant, widespread child abuse.

I still can't believe how quickly people gloss over the fact that child abuse by the religious orders was so widespread and so pervasive, and covered up to such a degree. That to attend mass on a regular basis is or at least should be a shameful act in itself, but to have your child initiated into the fold as wellIm sorry but there are very good reasons for not christening your child that extend beyond simply not believing in God or religion. It extends to the fact that the Catholic Church is a vile, disgusting organisation, that cares only for it's power and little for the welfare of any child. That has been well documented by their actions/inactions throughout history, particularly the recent history in this country. Industrial schools, Magdalene laundries??? I mean how can you explain to your future, older child these things and in the same breath the rational for baptising him/her. It's just completely inconsistent, rank hypocrisy from an Atheist and decidedly shameful from everyone else concerned.

If your parents and in laws have a problem, well quite frankly i'd tell them to go **** themselves, and im dead serious. How dare they dictate to the parents of a child how they rear their child, particularly when it pertains to superstitious, deluded nonsense. But even more so, when it includes an organisation like the Catholic Church.

Remember, Ireland cannot sign up to the UN Convention on the rights of the child, because of our education system and the role of the Catholic Church. That's ****ing shameful and an embarrassment on this country. After all that has happenned in this country, and the lip service about protecting children!? What a joke. Of course people just go along with it and continue the charade, amazing cognitive dissonance and a strange reconciling of the history of abuse and neglect in this country. Thankfully the church pews are not as full as they used to be. For those that still attend though, well it's true what they say then, religion is for the spineless and emotionally weak.

I guess we share the same interest in seeing the catholic church wiped from the face of the earth.

CerebralCortex

Galvasean wrote: »

http://www.gayscifinerds.co.uk/images/shows/017/lovingStarWars.jpg

Is that you?

Ah hallo? Thats obviously a storm trooper. :pac:

Dades

Botany Bay wrote: »

I still can't believe how quickly people gloss over the fact that child abuse by the religious orders was so widespread and so pervasive, and covered up to such a degree.

I don't see it as glossed over. And practising catholics will say is was bad people in a good faith that allowed it.

Xhristy

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Bduffman

Xhristy wrote: »

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I don't understand this - what is being forced on the child?? Nothing happens at a christening - absolutely nothing but empty words & symbols. It doesn't automatically make the child a christian - not until the child grows up & makes that decision for itself anyway.

Xhristy wrote: »

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And this just reaffirms my point. A child can choose their beliefs at any stage of their life - whether they are christened or not. Only bringing up a child to believe in mumbo jumbo can affect what that child believes when they are older.

aidan24326

diddley wrote: »

Would you christen your baby?

Ideally no. But the issue of them gaining entry to church-owned schools may force my hand. I hope not but ultimately their education will have to take priority, and in any case an actual christening ceremony means nothing. The priest says a few words and pours water on the baby's head, that's all. As rituals go it's relatively harmless. That said I'd rather avoid it if possible, simply due to the sheer pointlessness of it.

PDN

Xhristy wrote: »

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To be fair, if we are talking about a male child, the results of that rite would be a bit longer lasting than a bit of water on its head.

lostexpectation

mm christening vs baptism

christ is associated with naming but its also christ ening, most people talk about christening rather the baptism

The Mad Hatter

I do remember, around the time of my confirmation, being told over and over that 'baptism is when your parents choose Christianity for you, but confirmation is when you confirm that choice as your own'. At the time, at eleven or twelve or whatever age I was, it seemed to me that I didn't have any choice in the matter, despite what I was being told. So I figured that if I went through the ceremony it still wouldn't count as a genuine choice.

anti-venom

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I do remember, around the time of my confirmation, being told over and over that 'baptism is when your parents choose Christianity for you, but confirmation is when you confirm that choice as your own'.


In light of that then, isn't it odd that people say 'they were confirmed' when they should be saying 'I confirmed'? I certainly had no choice in the matter.

Malari

Do you think there would be objections, or could the priest refuse to go through with the ceremony, if one parent say, just showed up with the baby on their lunchbreak to get it baptised as quickly as possible, if the only reason they are doing it is to get it into a good school?

Joseph Kuhr

anti-venom wrote: »

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I do remember, around the time of my confirmation, being told over and over that 'baptism is when your parents choose Christianity for you, but confirmation is when you confirm that choice as your own'.


In light of that then, isn't it odd that people say 'they were confirmed' when they should be saying 'I confirmed'? I certainly had no choice in the matter.

I was given a choice. Of course it for the new clothes, party and money and because everyone else was doing it. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion, I had decided there was no god even at that age.

I'm a little worried about the comments about catholic only schools. I feel very strongly about the catholic churches tactics of forcing their religion on people and brainwashing. My grandmother is a complete cathoilc head case and my mother is a catholic through absolute fear and brain washing. I do not want my (hypothetical) children to have anything to do with the catholic church. If they make their own decision at a reasonable age (14+) then fair enough its their decision. I think I'd rather emigrate than have to baptise my child just to get into the local school....

robindch

anti-venom wrote: »

In light of that then, isn't it odd that people say 'they were confirmed' when they should be saying 'I confirmed'?

Never noticed that -- excellent point.

anti-venom wrote: »

I certainly had no choice in the matter.

Neither did I.

Rev Hellfire

Joseph Kuhr wrote: »

I'm a little worried about the comments about catholic only schools. I feel very strongly about the catholic churches tactics of forcing their religion on people and brainwashing.

Perhaps your anger should be redirected at your country-men and women who have allowed and supported this system, rather than the churches which are simply providing a service the majority initially mandated them to perform and latterly seem sufficiently indifferent to so as to not require an immediate change from the status-quo.

Joseph Kuhr

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Perhaps your anger should be redirected at your country-men and women who have allowed and supported this system, rather than the churches which are simply providing a service the majority initially mandated them to perform and latterly seem sufficiently indifferent to so as to not require an immediate change from the status-quo.

If by providing a service you are talking about church and preaching and not education (your post is not that clear) then I have to disagree. If given a clear canvas as an adult, in otherword eliminating the brainwashing influence that catholics put onto children in this country I think you would find the catholic religion would be dying a much faster death than it is at the moment.

Rev Hellfire

I refer to specify the church management of primary school, which is possible through the tacit approval of the majority,

While this is a side issue a look across the pond to the states shows that removal of the church from schools does not in fact result in it demise.

Tha Gopher

Joseph Kuhr wrote: »

anti-venom wrote: »

I feel very strongly about the catholic churches tactics of forcing their religion on people and brainwashing.

In Ireland?

In 2008?

Get a grip :rolleyes:

Dades

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Get a grip :rolleyes:

That's a powerful rebuttal you've put together. A rolleyes and everything.

anti-venom

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Joseph Kuhr wrote: »

In Ireland?

In 2008?

Get a grip :rolleyes:

Excellent rebuttal, indeed. Except the quote you are rebutting is not mine. Gremlins in the machine? Get a grip!