Conversation with a muslim

getz

statements from the HADITH

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KILL the dogs---loss of reward of good works for owning dogs

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dog annulling prayer----dogs stop angels

Hobbes

getz wrote: »

statements from the HADITH

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KILL the dogs---loss of reward of good works for owning dogs

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dog annulling prayer----dogs stop angels

Which ones?

getz

bukhari-- v1 book4 number 173

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bukhari-- v4 book54 number 540----bukhari-- v4 book 54 number 540

Agathon

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 173:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If a dog drinks from the utensil of anyone of you it is essential to wash it seven times."

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 174:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise." And narrated Hamza bin 'Abdullah: My father said. "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques (come and go), nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it (urine of the dog.)"

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 175:

Narrated 'Adi bin Hatim:

I asked the Prophet (about the hunting dogs) and he replied, "If you let loose (with Allah's name) your tamed dog after a game and it hunts it, you may eat it, but if the dog eats of (that game) then do not eat it because the dog has hunted it for itself." I further said, "Sometimes I send my dog for hunting and find another dog with it. He said, "Do not eat the game for you have mentioned Allah's name only on sending your dog and not the other dog."

***
All I can see is kindness for dogs in these hadiths (The Creator showing you mercy for you having mercy on a dog and doing something as simple as quenching its thirst); letting your dog eat before you when you use it to hunt; etc. In fact nothing you mentioned was in these hadiths!!!

Please stop giving Islam a bad image (the intelligent media are doing enough damage!). Next time write the actual hadith down plus source (ref)!!

Agathon

Even when there is a mention of something that you don't fully understand, hadith is a deep science. You must ask scholars on this issue before writing your own fatwas and propaganda for people to read (& hate Islam for):
***
The order was to kill biting rabid and voracious dogs (Saheeh Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 29, Number 54; Volume 3, Book 29, Number 55; Volume 4, Book 54, Number 531; Saheeh Muslim: Book 007, Number 2717, Book 007; Number 2718; Book 007, Number 2719; Abu Dawud: Book 10, Number 1844) The killing of the rabid dogs also applied to other creatures and animals that were dangerous as well. e.g. wolves (Source: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?hnum=1698&doc=0)

You have hadith saying to kill all dogs except the ones used for hunting or guarding sheep. (Saheeh Muslim: Book 010, Number 3812; Book 010, Number 3814)

There are hadiths that show dogs not being killed:
They used to see dogs urinating on the floor of the mosque and they just sprinkled water on the spot, they didn't go and kill the dog. (Saheeh Bukhari: Volume 001, Book 004, Hadith Number 174)
***
Anyway, the main point I want to make is, people should at least try to find genuine answers for questions instead of insulting the Prophet (p), Allah or the Qur'an (Islam basically). Or else argue their point with proper sources (genuinly).

getz

just stop bypassing the passage--abdullah bin uma-allahhs apostle --ordered that dogs should be killed

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next bukhariv4 book 54 num 542--quote if somebody keeps a dog that is neither used for farm work nor guarding livestock he will lose one qirat[of the reward of his good deeds everyday]--bukhari v4 book 4 num 450--quote- angel gabriel [we angels do not enter a house which contains a picture or a dog]---dont start the old i am insulting allah bit , and please remember islam is still a very young religion what is happening in islam at this moment happened in christianity in the west 400 years ago--thank god/allah that i live in a more open society-to me if anyone said things negitive about christ i would just feel sorry for them. i could not care less

Hobbes

getz wrote: »

just stop bypassing the passage

Considering your other quotes were incorrect and look like they were pulled off the first page you googled, I too would like more details on the one that was overlooked.

Agathon

It seems like some just like arguing for the sake of arguments. Are the hadiths I've mentioned not enough to defend Allah & the prophet (p) for encouraging mercy toward the dog.

Some people will never be convinced no matter how much evidence you give them that their statements are wrong (taken out of context and written down for people to read and hate Islam's teachings!) or put doubt in people's hearts. Why you brought these issues up, i dunno, but ask genuinly: why did the prophet order killing of dogs and you'll get your answer (even in google):
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/killing_of_dogs.htm

getz

we can go on forever with islamic quotes--because the bible and the koran are full of contradictions - the proof of the pudding is in the eating--i have lived in a high islamic area of the uk and i can assure you a muslim will wash all his/her clothes if he/she gets a dog hair on them- when i walked my dog islamic people will cross the road before they will pass by me --some muslim taxis will not except a blind person with a dog -- not all are that strict all my muslim friends love my dog some even have dogs of there own--because they are born in the uk they are not as conventional -and like every other english kid religion is left to there parents

Agathon

where exactly are the contradictions in the Qur'an?? Anybody who claims there are contradictions in the Qur'an is not a Muslim. Allah states: "Do they not then meditate on the Qur'an? For if it had been from other the Allah they would have found many contradictions in it" Surat an-Nisaa, ayah 82.

You seem like a nice guy but you can't claim to call yourself one of the billion Muslims in the world with that belief of yours. Many people don't focus on small issues (like the dog issue that we have wasted our time talking about, etc.) but to say that the Qur'an has contradictions is a total confusion of your beliefs my friend!! Islam is not only by name like Christianity, Judaism or paganism- eeman has to enter your heart after you have been fully convinced of your beliefs. Why do you believe exactly??

andrewh5

blackthorn wrote: »

Wow Jannah, that is quite something. I'm sorry if you are turning away from Islam. I do hope you will come back.

Not if he/she has any sense.

getz

you keep on saying allah states--no allah dosent state - both the bible and the koran are man wrote not god wrote -words have been put in the holy books by man --as what allah/god has supposed to have said --in the case of the new testament 200 AD some of the books have been put in by the church

blackthorn

andrewh5 wrote: »

Not if he/she has any sense.

Who asked you?

Agathon

getz wrote: »

you keep on saying allah states--no allah dosent state - both the bible and the koran are man wrote not god wrote -words have been put in the holy books by man --as what allah/god has supposed to have said --in the case of the new testament 200 AD some of the books have been put in by the church

How was the Qur'an revealed to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)? Yes the Qur'an was written by man but it was revealed from ALLAH through Angel Jibreel to the Prophet (p). It claims that it is protected by ALLAH from corruption and tampering as oppose to the other revealed Books (i.e. Bible, Torah, etc.) but it is ALLAH's statements. Did you know this fundamental belief of Islam???
Show me the contradictions which you say are in it (even though nobody has actually challenged it for the past 1400 years)?

getz

they dare not -because islam has a way on disposing of anyone who asks questions--

Hobbes

Hi,

Welcome to the new people I trust everyone has READ THE CHARTER. If not please do so now. I have already banned two people for a week and I don't like having to do it.

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

mohamed says all dogs are devils and urged muslims to kill them -if a muslim get a dog hair on him or her they must change there clothes-a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers-

Can you please tell me where it says I cannot pray if a Jew is present as I find that very difficult to believe.

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

bukhari-- v1 book4 number 173

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bukhari-- v4 book54 number 540----bukhari-- v4 book 54 number 540

What about this one...

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."

getz

IKIMAH-reported on the authority of IBN ABBAS--saying i think the apostle ALLAH said-when one prays without a sutrah. a dog an ass a pig a jew a magian and a woman cut of his prayer but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

IKIMAH-reported on the authority of IBN ABBAS--saying i think the apostle ALLAH said-when one prays without a sutrah. a dog an ass a pig a jew a magian and a woman cut of his prayer but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw

You originally said "a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers". This is not what this hadith says. Can you please give me a link to a hadith that backs up your original statement? Do you even understand this hadith you have quoted?

getz

abu dharr reported the messenger said [muslim number 1032]-- i could keep on quotes all day but you will believe what you only want to believe--i am not knocking islam -i can also rip christianity apart but this is islamic thread-i know when my son brings his muslim friends to my house he always warns them that we have a dog {not black] just in case they are offended--my only gripe most of the holy books have been wrote over 2,000 years ago ,people words and understanding changes and i do not believe that the only way to god/allah is by accepting this or that religion

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

abu dharr reported the messenger said [muslim number 1032]-- i could keep on quotes all day but you will believe what you only want to believe--i am not knocking islam -i can also rip christianity apart but this is islamic thread-i know when my son brings his muslim friends to my house he always warns them that we have a dog {not black] just in case they are offended--my only gripe most of the holy books have been wrote over 2,000 years ago ,people words and understanding changes and i do not believe that the only way to god/allah is by accepting this or that religion

You fail to defend any of your posts when challenged. I'll ask again...

getz wrote:

mohamed says all dogs are devils and urged muslims to kill them -if a muslim get a dog hair on him or her they must change there clothes-a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers-

getz wrote:

IKIMAH-reported on the authority of IBN ABBAS--saying i think the apostle ALLAH said-when one prays without a sutrah. a dog an ass a pig a jew a magian and a woman cut of his prayer but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw

IrishConvert wrote:

You originally said "a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers". This is not what this hadith says. Can you please give me a link to a hadith that backs up your original statement? Do you even understand this hadith you have quoted?

And please give links to the hadiths you quote from in your replies to we can read them ourselves instead of your selective quotes from them.

getz

out of respect for the moderator and boards i will not quote the text ---v4 book52 number260 -

Hobbes

getz wrote: »

out of respect for the moderator and boards i will not quote the text ---v4 book52 number260 -

I would prefer if you quote the actual text so people can understand what it is you are getting at and if you are correct or not.

Here is what I have:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260 wrote:

Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

I am not sure what that has to do with dogs or jews while praying.

Also context is everything. I am not a scholar but from reading the paragraphs beforehand it seems to mention killing for the murder of a woman (which is discarding your religion). From what I gather she was killed after saying that women and children of pagans were not to be killed.

But again it probably needs a Muslim to explain properly.

getz

ok the text also says you should not seek to pray at sunrise or sunset -for there is a jew hiding behind me so kill him-i do not believe this kind of thing is fit to put on the boards--so dont blame me for the quote

Hobbes

getz wrote: »

ok the text also says you should not seek to pray at sunrise or sunset -for there is a jew hiding behind me so kill him-i do not believe this kind of thing is fit to put on the boards--so dont blame me for the quote

The section you quoted I have posted fully above. It makes no mention to a Jew hiding.

I did find the section you were going on about and the context is that there is a war going on. "Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 + 177. " (that I can see). Trying to imply that is a rule for Muslims to start killing Jewish people is laughable.

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

ok the text also says you should not seek to pray at sunrise or sunset -for there is a jew hiding behind me so kill him-i do not believe this kind of thing is fit to put on the boards--so dont blame me for the quote

Why are you switching to an entirely topic and ignoring my questions in regard to your previous post...

getz wrote:

mohamed says all dogs are devils and urged muslims to kill them -if a muslim get a dog hair on him or her they must change there clothes-a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers-

getz wrote:

IKIMAH-reported on the authority of IBN ABBAS--saying i think the apostle ALLAH said-when one prays without a sutrah. a dog an ass a pig a jew a magian and a woman cut of his prayer but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw

You originally said "a muslim must not pray if a dog or a jew is present because god will not answer the prayers". This is not what this hadith says. Can you please give me a link to a hadith that backs up your original statement? Do you even understand this hadith you have quoted?
And please give links to the hadiths you quote from in your replies to we can read them ourselves instead of your selective quotes from them.

getz

fact the KORAN [quran]consists of 6,666 verses, but over 125 verses encourage muslims to use terrorism against non muslims--most muslims 99.9% realise that it is not to be taken as word --but the other 1% ,this is why the fanitics thrive

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

fact the KORAN [quran]consists of 6,666 verses, but over 125 verses encourage muslims to use terrorism against non muslims--most muslims 99.9% realise that it is not to be taken as word --but the other 1% ,this is why the fanitics thrive

Why do you keep switching from topic to topic? Why won't you defend any of the posts you have made which have been challenged? Please stop posting rubbish if you are not prepared to defend it.

getz

now we have to go back to the quote--the apostle of ALLAH said;--when one prays without a sutrah -a dog an ass a pig a JEW and a woman cut off his prayer-- but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw --so that tell me if the JEW is inside a stones throw the prayer is not answered -you tell me what else it can mean ?

irishconvert

getz wrote: »

now we have to go back to the quote--the apostle of ALLAH said;--when one prays without a sutrah -a dog an ass a pig a JEW and a woman cut off his prayer-- but it will surffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stones throw --so that tell me if the JEW is inside a stones throw the prayer is not answered -you tell me what else it can mean ?

If anybody, Muslim or non-Muslim passes on front of you when you are praying it invalidates your prayer. I seriously doubt the reliability of this Hadith. I have never heard anything about it before.

Agathon

[i am not knocking islam -i can also rip christianity apart but this is islamic thread-i know when my son brings his muslim friends to my house he always warns them that we have a dog {not black] just in case they are offended--my only gripe most of the holy books have been wrote over 2,000 years ago ,people words and understanding changes and i do not believe that the only way to god/allah is by accepting this or that religion[/quote]

It looks like you go around to all of the Religion threads trying to rip different world-views apart from this comment; But you haven't even properly responded to a couple of the questions we're asking you. You keep jumping around topics like a mad-man. And you seen to ignore context or proper explanations of hadith & verses from the Qur'an. Two simple questions (if you can't respond to these then give up the 'trying to rip apart Islam' tactic):
1. Can you show me where the contradictions in the Qur'an are?
2. Can you show me the hadith about not praying on sunset or sunrise because of jew hiding?!
* No more jumping around. Answer these or just say you need more time to find them.

Alice1

DinoBot wrote: »

really ???!!! Lets see,

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' -- Okay, not a bad start

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
-- Cant see the guidance to a good life yet!

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
--Eh, getting a little vain are we ?

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

Right so almost half way there and its all about him.

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
-- At last, something we can use

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
-- Wow, I must write that one down, must NOT murder :rolleyes::rolleyes:


SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
--not bad

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
-- a little vague there I think.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

--Not really into keeping slaves so I think I wont be following that one.


Did I miss something, is this the fairly good guideline to living a good life of which you speak :D

Dinobot, you might want to have a quick recheck on the ten commandments - the first three refer to how we "treat" God (Thou shalt not have strange gods, thou shalt not take the name in vain & keep the sabbath holy), while the remaining seven refer to how we "treat" others. (Honour father & mother, don't kill, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't tell lies, don't covet the spouse or possessions of another) All in all, pretty good guidelines.

DinoBot

Alice1 wrote: »

, don't covet the spouse or possessions of another) All in all, pretty good guidelines.

...you forgot about your slaves, or did you just include that in "possessions" ??

Eh old post but I'll bite :rolleyes: , rechecked them again.....still think it could have been wrote by a 2nd class school child. This is suppose to be from god.

Please read them and compare them to the declaration of human rights (by human authors)

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

I don't see 30% wasted on how people should deal with the authors of the declaration, or is that type of vanity held only for god :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Alice1

Dinobot,
Sent you a PM

CerebralCortex

Jannah wrote: »

Lol! I mean, flippit, I started looking at Islam with a VERY open mind, but this is ridiculious. Its impossible to defend a religion so terribly flawed

As opposed to?