The sensation of thinking

Fremen

I'm not really sure if biology and medicine is the place for this, but I'll give it a shot.

For me, the sensation of thinking is a little like having a voice talking in my head. If I were trying to pinpoint the location of that voice, I'd say it was at the intersection of two lines, one drawn running from inch above the point between my eyes to the back of my head, and the other drawn running from one temple to the other.

What I'm wondering is, am I just imagining that this is the case because I know that thought occurs in the brain, or am I actually experiencing the sensation of thought?

If you asked someone with absolutely no scientific education, or, say, a small child where in their body their thoughts were coming from, would they point to the brain?

Caoimhín

I have two voices in here. Is that strange? I thought everyone had that..

Latchy

A child might point to the brain but it could be his spirt who's doing the talking in his head

Dr Galen

latchyco wrote: »

A child might point to the brain but it could be his spirt who's doing the talking in his head

his what now?

Latchy

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

his what now?

Yeah, i find it hard to explain in human terms .

eth0_

latchyco wrote: »

A child might point to the brain but it could be his spirt who's doing the talking in his head

Spirit means the phenomenon of consciousness.

But this is getting into philosophy and this is a medical board :P

DrIndy

eth0_ wrote: »

Spirit means the phenomenon of consciousness.

But this is getting into philosophy and this is a medical board :P

true - from an abstract point of view of analysing conciousness - i might let this find thread find another home where there are more people to get involved in the discussion.

ronbyrne2005

Not really a sensation but an awareness? Watched a documentary on "what is self?" a while back, fascinating, some neuroscientist(Michael Gazzaniga) isolated an area in one hemisphere which seems to allow self awareness and therefore our mind and conscious thinking to occur.
You can't sense individual neurons communicating and you just become aware of the more important complex thoughts in your mind at any given time.
We know the mind/thinking arises from what's in the physical brain from experiment and observation. Because thinking is complex and involves many parts of brain at all times you can't isolate thoughts or your self awareness to a specific location in the brain, it's a whole brain phenomenon that scientists still don't fully understand.
Look up on youtube and read about neuroscience, Susan Greenfield, Ramachandran etc etc.

I would'nt dwell on it too much as it's beyond our current comprehension and may melt your head if you get worried about those sort of things

p.pete

eth0_ wrote: »

Spirit means the phenomenon of consciousness.

But this is getting into philosophy and this is a medical board :P

No, it's a science board

Faith

Thinking really intrigues me. I'm just finishing 3rd year of a neuroscience degree, but I don't think it's something we're really going to touch on.

I definitely hear a voice. I think it's my voice, but I can't focus enough on it to be sure. Given that I have full blown conversations with myself in my head, it's definitely at least one voice. But I know there's not actually a voice there, so how am I heading it? At least, I feel like I'm hearing it, but it's not external so my ears aren't involved. Why do we just do what "the voice in our head" tells us? I assume thinking is just the same as anything else, the firing of action potentials and synaptic activity. So how is it translated into a voice?

Agh, thinking about thinking is like thinking about what was there before the universe. It just brings up too many questions!

ronbyrne2005

Faith wrote: »

Thinking really intrigues me. I'm just finishing 3rd year of a neuroscience degree, but I don't think it's something we're really going to touch on.

I definitely hear a voice. I think it's my voice, but I can't focus enough on it to be sure. Given that I have full blown conversations with myself in my head, it's definitely at least one voice. But I know there's not actually a voice there, so how am I heading it? At least, I feel like I'm hearing it, but it's not external so my ears aren't involved. Why do we just do what "the voice in our head" tells us? I assume thinking is just the same as anything else, the firing of action potentials and synaptic activity. So how is it translated into a voice?

Agh, thinking about thinking is like thinking about what was there before the universe. It just brings up too many questions!

I like Penrose's cyclical universe theory but whatever the truth is I doubt humans will ever know the answers. Even most ardent cosmologists can't tell you what created all the energy that created everything in the universe and caused/causes the inflationary expansion of the universe. Was watching the "sky at night" on BBC last night and they were reviewing " what we know about the universe" and the presenter was just slagging off all the emminent cosmologists from Cambridge and Oxford etc for fudging everything we don't understand about the universe. Mad to think all the hydrogen atoms in all the water around us has existed since the "big bang" 14 billion years ago, Matter is amazing stuff and the fact it becomes conscious and intelligent in our brains is really really amazing by human standards of thinking. I don't know how most people go about their daily lifes without questioning where all the universe around them came from and why it exists.

Kooli

Such an interesting question, OP!

I've often wondered the same thing - do I experience thoughts as being located in my brain because that's where they actually are?
My latest theory is that it's because it is where my eyes and ears are, so that's where I receive sounds and images (which is what my thoughts mostly consist of).
Emotions, as opposed to thoughts, are experienced more in the torso, even though they presumably originate from the brain too, which makes me think the reason thoughts feel like they are in a different place is because of the eyes and ears...

Valmont

p.pete wrote: »

No, it's a science board

I think this thread began on the medical forum and then DrIndy shifted it here.

Brooke01

Fremen wrote: »

I'm not really sure if biology and medicine is the place for this, but I'll give it a shot.

For me, the sensation of thinking is a little like having a voice talking in my head. If I were trying to pinpoint the location of that voice, I'd say it was at the intersection of two lines, one drawn running from inch above the point between my eyes to the back of my head, and the other drawn running from one temple to the other.

What I'm wondering is, am I just imagining that this is the case because I know that thought occurs in the brain, or am I actually experiencing the sensation of thought?

If you asked someone with absolutely no scientific education, or, say, a small child where in their body their thoughts were coming from, would they point to the brain?

What age are u ??? You should tell your GP about this .... you will get more answer from him or her .

Latchy

Why some people take up yoga .

To have some control over their thought process, to be still and not have to think at all .

Call Me Jimmy

Well for me, the voice I hear is the one I imagine. It would usually be my own but if I'm thinking about a conversation with someone else then their voice is the sound I imagine.

I've always been interested in thought though. I do a lot of it and sometimes end up thinking about the fact that I'm thinking and what exactly that involves and to what extent animals think. Like if a lion sees some game that is easy pickings but he's just too lazy to go after the thing he must think the equivalent of "Ah **** it, I'm wrecked!".

JuliusCaesar

latchyco wrote: »

Why some people take up yoga .

To have some control over their thought process, to be still and not have to think at all .

I don't think it's possible "not to think at all". Thinking is what the brain does, whether you're paying attention to it or not, in the same way as your heart beats, your lungs extract oxygen from inhaled air and your pancreas does whatever it does. It's possible to learn not to get sucked into your thoughts - see stuff on mindfulness or meditation.

Latchy

Yes, it is intresting indeed .It's like i read somewere that to hear absolute silence you would have to out in the middle of the sahara desert (except of course for overhead commercial aircraft ) and even then maybe not 100 % silence. I suffer with tinnitus which is with me most of the time but i have learned to switch my thought process at times to enable me to cope with it .

awnya

Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor a Harvard-trained neuroanatomist suffered a stroke
she struggled to phone for help, she was aware that the left hemisphere of her brain was shutting down, taking with it her language, organizing and other analytical skills. Without the dominant left side of her brain controlling her thoughts, Jill says her mind went silent, leaving only the right side of the brain functioning. Through the right side of her brain, Jill says her consciousness shifted away from reality—and the trauma her body was suffering through—and into a place of inner peace and Nirvana

You can watch an interview Oprah did with her
http://www2.oprah.com/spiritself/oss/guest/oss_guest_jboltetaylor.jhtml

Eckhart Tolle book A New Earth gives a great insight into how our thoughts control us
http://www.oprah.com/obc_classic/webcast/archive/archive_watchnow.jsp

It's amazing the difference this awareness can make, it takes a bit of getting used to but it definitely works

p.pete

Kendall (2001) American Jounal of Psychology, p 989 (July)
Gives a really good look at this - uses a philisophical teacher student conversation format and it's from the perspective of psychiatry. It attempts to give the philosophies behind it from a reasonably basic level - which I found useful as I'm struggling with it at the moment.
Sorry if the ref's wrong - let me know - and about the formatting, only read it yesterday...