Just how much is football connected with Politics?

estebancambias

Ok, influenced by the 'Rangers Jersey' thread in the Dublin forum, and Rangers getting to the final thread I feel this merits a thread.

I'll get to the point. People when in a debate about the positives of sport(football) talk about how ''it brings people together''...and say ''sport has nothing to do with politics''...the problem is I don't believe it has anything to do with either. Sport is not about making a Palestinian and a Jew jump happily along the Gaza strip. Its not about making a kid from one background get on with a kid from another(this is commonly said at underrage soccer level)..on the other side of the coin its not about proving a political point.

The thing is that sport acts as a medium for both integration and seperation. Because humans find pleasure in integration, we say that sport has nothing to do with things that tend to 'seperate people'(nationalism, politics)

I personally believe people who say that sport should have nothing to do with politics is ignorant and are dismissing the power that sport actually has to influence people.

Last year for my leaving cert I did a project on ''the death match'' between FC Start( a team comprised mainly of players from Dynamo Kiev) and soldiers from the German Lutwaffe.

Start won the game, and the match is believed to have gone to great lengths to raising the morale of the people of Ukraine during a terrible time in its history.

Then you have the '1968 Black Power Salute', the GAA and many more examples I'm sure.

....

...............

Eirebear

Football in itself has absolutely no relation to politics in my opinion.

I myself am a Rangers fan, was raised in Ireland, Catholic and somewhat republican and socialist minded.
None of these things affect eachother in the slightest in my life.

Ireland is not going to become a united country independant of British rule, just because celtic won the league for example.
My religion is a private thing that i use to reflect on my life, and try to use the base values of christianity to become a "better person"....again Rangers arent going to win the UEFA cup just because i go to mass on a Sunday!

HOWEVER

Football fans, by their very nature are tribal and the tendancy is to go along with what the majority of your fellow supporters are doing or saying.
This makes them an easy target for politicians and the like to manipulate.

national pride is alway at a high when a countrys national team is doing well at ANY sport, or for that fact a player from that country is succeeding.
But that in itself doesnt make it political...its the propaganda that comes afterwards which makes it political.

estebancambias

Eirebear wrote: »

Football in itself has absolutely no relation to politics in my opinion.
I myself am a Rangers fan, was raised in Ireland, Catholic and somewhat republican and socialist minded.
None of these things affect eachother in the slightest in my life.

Ireland is not going to become a united country independant of British rule, just because celtic won the league for example.
My religion is a private thing that i use to reflect on my life, and try to use the base values of christianity to become a "better person"....again Rangers arent going to win the UEFA cup just because i go to mass on a Sunday!

HOWEVER

Football fans, by their very nature are tribal and the tendancy is to go along with what the majority of your fellow supporters are doing or saying.
This makes them an easy target for politicians and the like to manipulate.

national pride is alway at a high when a countrys national team is doing well at ANY sport, or for that fact a player from that country is succeeding.
But that in itself doesnt make it political...its the propaganda that comes afterwards which makes it political.

If I did a real bad job explaining this in my post, then I feel this exactly.

invincibleirish

Im smart enough to be able to not have my politics influenced by the team i supports historical baggage.

Alas the same cant be said for everyone, be it Scotland, Italy, Spain, Former Yugoslavia or wherever its a very vogue thing to mix politics and football. Its Vogue because it often creates amazing spectacles. You only have to hear and see the Italian Ultras put on a big show before important games to heighten the sense of occasion.

However the politics are often, be they left or right, "old school" and generally distasteful and at odds with the modern consensus we live with.

People Like Di Canio, Capello & our own Trappatoni hold some views which i find pretty odious, however they cannot be taken seriously as their elevated position in society is due to the game they play not their politics.

Moral of the story? enjoy the spectacle but dont get caught up with it.

An Citeog

I don't think it's possible to completely separate politics from football, particularly international football. It's not a new phenomenon though and it's not something that always has negative repercussions. I know quite a bit about German football around the time of WWII and find it fascinating the way it was used by the Nazis, Allies and the reformed West German government to raise morale and to help achieve their own political aims. A few examples,

In 1952, the West German parliament were seeking admittance into the European Defence Community but this was heavily opposed by the French. A friendly was organised between the 2 countries which West Germany happened to lose 3-1, after warnings from their prime minister about the negative affect a win could have on their political aims. This, some believe, paved the way for West Germany's admittance into the EDC and ECSC (now the EU).

In 1955, the West German PM went to the USSR to secure the release of the remaining 10,000 POW's there. He brought the national team, then world champions, with him to play in a "friendly" game against a Soviet Union selection. Again they lost (3-2 this time) and the 10,000 prisoners were released. I'm not suggesting that this was the sole reason why the prisoners were released or why West Germany was allowed to join the EDC and ECSC but it certainly had a role to play. The German FA were also expelled from FIFA in 1946, a full year after the war had ended.

And lastly, Fritz Walter, the man who went on to captain West Germany to victory in the 1954 World Cup, was captured by the Soviets during WWII. While he was in one of their POW camps, waiting to be sent to Siberia, a guard recognised him as a famous German international footballer (he'd played up until competition was suspended in 1942) and had him sent to another camp closer to Germany, where he was later freed. He was the rock around which that famous West German team was built.

Politics mightn't have all that big a role to play at local level, although it is still present imo. It's when things get to a national level that the role of politics in football is clear to see. Sometimes it's bad but not always. Tbh, I think it's something that can't be changed and just has to be accepted (at national level anyway).

Bubs101

Without a doubt football is linked to politics in the modern age, at the very least because having a big football team adds to a city's tourism alot and as a result governments and councils bail out big football teams (be it Real getting a free ground or Valencia running in over 100% debt without punishment)

In Italy, certain clubs are better known for their politics than their football. livorno for instance are the comunist club and make no effort to hide it, if anything it is encouraged just like Lazio and the fascists

bohsman

Cant really say anything better than its already been said, of course they are linked, not only with religeon and fans but also when there is that much money involved at the top of the game there will be corruption.

KrazeeEyezKilla

invincibleirish wrote: »

People Like Di Canio, Capello & our own Trappatoni hold some views which i find pretty odious, however they cannot be taken seriously as their elevated position in society is due to the game they play not their politics.

What politics has Trapatoni?

KdjaCL

Everyone has it backwards, footbball isnt linked to politics.

Politics is linked to football as they* see it as a means to further their agenda and gain a wider audience/vote.


90% of football fans go to see their team play, but due to politics they are tarnished as certain parties members.

Linfield/rangers/bohs = loyalist protestants
Celtic/ shamrocks = nationalist catholics
Pats = couldnt give a monkeys
barca = weird kinda catalan nationalists.
Madrid = weird kinda marxists/commies
Bilbao= basque ie not spain

In ireland we have the north/south thing i care not what songs they sing as a song has never offended me unlike in scotland where certain songs about irish people killing other irish people offends them

In spain you have similiar but to a regional extreme Bilbao Madrid barca all believe they live in seperate countries

I would bet most of the fans went to a game and came home and found out they were commies, nationalists, fenians, proddies, marxists when they really just went to watch their team play.

* they being politicians who seen an oppurtunity to gain favour with a large democratic.

Would say organised religion also uses sport as a means to gain favour. hopefully Jedi takes a hold of pats fans.

kdjac

Eirebear

KdjaCL wrote: »

Politics is linked to football kdjac

Nail Head Hit

Mr.Nice Guy

Great posts by Eirebear and KdjaCL I have to say. Really articulated things nicely. Couldn't add anything to that.

An Citeog

KdjaCL wrote: »

Everyone has it backwards, footbball isnt linked to politics.

Politics is linked to football as they* see it as a means to further their agenda and gain a wider audience/vote.

Potatoe potato tbh! Football is linked to politics politics is linked to football. Nothing you can do to get away from it.

KdjaCL wrote: »

Madrid = weird kinda marxists/commies

Madrid are actually right wing, not left! If anyone in Spain is left wing, it's Barça. Commie bastards!:D

SectionF

Good question.

Football in Ireland is political through and through, and it is almost impossible to be apolitical in the team you support. I don't mean that in relation to the politics for dummies as played out by the Celtic/Rangers saddos.

Class bigotries are rife in mass spectator sport here, and you are making a statement of dissent from the lumpen GAA/EPL herd when you decide to follow an Irish team.

The majority of fans are making a political statement when they decide arbitrarily to follow a top EPL team, even if it is not owned by dubious Russian vulture capitalist or by a shady dictator.

Ironically, many who follow this route, and who see it essentially as a simple individual choice, will protest vociferously that they couldn't care less about politics, but they are part of the most powerful political force the world has known, which is globalised capital and the consumer culture that goes hand in hand with it.

Putting AIG or Carling on a team shirt is just as political as putting UNICEF on it.

The most sensible political/football position in response to soulless globalisation is to rediscover a sense of place and follow a team that you can properly identify with geographically, and which you can authentically refer to as 'we'.

The best way to do that is by supporting and eventually joining a member-owned club, such as Bohemians. There are other member clubs in the eL, but of course they're rubbish.

PS: Following Leeds United doesn't fit into this anyway, anywhere. That's simply residual masochism

eZe^

KdjaCL wrote: »

barca = weird kinda catalan nationalists.

That's held by a majority though, maybe not fully independence, but most people do support semi independence for Catalunya. Now that the Catalans are on their way to having an autonomous state they are one step closer to independence from Spain. When it was founded it had no ties with Spain at all, pre-1714 invasion, Catalunya had not ties with Spain. Now you can say its been its culture has been influenced by Spain, but when it was being formed, there was zero influence from Spanish. But, as with any form of integration, down through the years they have adopted alot more of Spains culture, like caragols served as 'tapas' and now the language has been heavily influenced by Castillian.

An Citeog wrote: »

Madrid are actually right wing, not left! If anyone in Spain is left wing, it's Barça. Commie bastards!:D

Well that is because they suffered countless amounts of oppression at the hand of Franco the Fascist during the civil war.

The entire history of FC Barcelona has been dictated by politics and civil wars. Mes Que Un Club would not exist if it wasn't for the fact that the Camp Nou was the only place catalans could safely speak their language and practice their culture outside of their homes. FC Barcelona was the a symbol for Catalans throughout the civil war, you can't seperate it from Catalan identity because now it is just as much a part of Catalan culture as 'Coca de Sant Joan'. Oh and lets not forget that some of the founding members of Madrid were two catalan brothers.


Basically, in particular places, football and Politics can't be seperated, as they are integrally woven together somewhere in the places history.

GuanYin

It is no coincidence I mod both

Sherifu

<Insert modspiracy pic here>