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See Any Checkpoints Around At The Weekend???
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Far less risk for anyone, a dual carrigeway by default means your not going to have a head on collision, as for running into the back of someone you have far more distance and space to react to some clown pulling out into the fast lane without having accelerated to an appropriate speed and belive me people do it on a regular basis which explains the high level of undertaking one can witness on any dual carrigeway or motorway in the country. Undertaking is incredably dangerous for a number of reasons but i never blame the undertaker, rather i level blame squarely at the person who is driving slow in the fast lane, it is their duty as a motorist to be aware as they drive and awareness means that if a car is fast approaching behind them they ought to move aside and let them pass, as far as i'm concerned if we could stamp out such bad driving habits than we would have far fewer crashes.
With regards to the latter part of your post i agree totally stupid but not because of the speed she was driving, in other conditions/traffic/surface/type of road that speed would have been perfectly acceptable, to attribute that to speed would be a cop out if we really want to address road safety issues we at least have to be honest with the facts. Speed doesn't kill, speed traps and penalty points don't save lives, nor do ridiculously placed speed control zones.
The only way we can address the problems on Irish roads is by first weeding out all the terrible drivers off our roads the new measures coming in in June are a start but they do not go far enough, people should have to pass regular refresher courses in driving. I drive a forklift an i have to do a refresher course every two years to keep my licence in date, yet pass your driving test once and away ya go. Secondly we need to get serious about investing in our road infrastructure, putting in place proper surfacing as opposed to tar and chip, we also need to build corners on our the roads properly, how often have you been driving within the speed limit entered a slight bend with which you shouldn't have to adjust your speed only to find the car pull away? - corner designed badly. These factors at play are the real killers on Irish roads, but its a lot easier to blame speed put cameras in place and cash in.0 -
Irish drivers are addicted to stupid, lazy ill thought out overtaking.0
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The Autobahn was orginally designed for landing planes on in the event that the airports were bombed during WWII.
As said previously, if his clock said 110kp/h then he was more than likely doing the legal limit. Come on .. 80 kp/h on a crap backroad..
Give me a break, speed doesnt kill, the idiot behind the steering wheel does.
Oh .. and @ Judes
I've seen the wards, especially the motorcycle accident victims... bloody horrific, but either happened by freak accident or from car drivers not looking where they were going.
I wasn't going to bother replying or adding anymore to this thread as I am shocked by some of the nonsense I'm reading- but there are some really "cocky" drivers out there who seem to think they are driving in a parallel universe where nothing bad will ever happen to them if they go fast - as speed doesn't kill! Fine! Stay there on your little planet - just keep off the Irish roads, as I don't want you driving anywhere near me!!!0 -
Far less risk for anyone, a dual carrigeway by default means your not going to have a head on collision, as for running into the back of someone you have far more distance and space to react to some clown pulling out into the fast lane without having accelerated to an appropriate speed and belive me people do it on a regular basis which explains the high level of undertaking one can witness on any dual carrigeway or motorway in the country....
Two points:
1. Forget about having enough distance and space on a dual carriageway. That's the theory. In Ireland we seem to have this talent for driving up the arse of the car in front of us, irrespective of the road conditions or space available. How many cars have you seen on a typical dual carriageway, e.g. the Ring Road at rush hour that leave the relevant distance between each other?? Based on an average reaction time of 0.7 seconds, a car driving at 100kmph will have travelled almost 19.5 m before they realise that something has happened. Add to that the time it takes to hit the brakes, and wait for the car to stop. I have hardly EVER seen cars drive far enough apart on our roads to allow for that. And that's assuming that they drive at 100k.
2. Undertaking is HIGHLY dangerous. I've been undertaken on a number of occasions by (and I'm sorry if I upset anyone here) Eastern European cars who seem to do whatever they want on our roads secure in the knowledge that they can't be touched. And I wasn't traveling slowly at the time, I was doing the speed limit and I refused to pull into the safe margin on the side of the road (illegal to drive there). I called the cops to complain one car on its way towards Mallow on a day when you couldn't see 50 meters beyond the car with rain. I was told they'd put a traffic car out to stop the car (he also undertook a lorry ahead of me) but as soon as I mentioned it was an Eastern European car, all I got was an "Oh...." and I knew then it was a waste of time.
And I don't necessarily agree that a car travelling at the speed limit should have to move out of the way to let a boy racer or some other speed freak pass them by. That's a form of bullying behaviour on the roads.The only way we can address the problems on Irish roads is by first weeding out all the terrible drivers off our roads the new measures coming in in June are a start but they do not go far enough, people should have to pass regular refresher courses in driving...
I agree totally, but it will never happen.0 -
2. Undertaking is HIGHLY dangerous. I've been undertaken on a number of occasions by (and I'm sorry if I upset anyone here) Eastern European cars who seem to do whatever they want on our roads secure in the knowledge that they can't be touched. And I wasn't traveling slowly at the time, I was doing the speed limit and I refused to pull into the safe margin on the side of the road (illegal to drive there). I called the cops to complain one car on its way towards Mallow on a day when you couldn't see 50 meters beyond the car with rain. I was told they'd put a traffic car out to stop the car (he also undertook a lorry ahead of me) but as soon as I mentioned it was an Eastern European car, all I got was an "Oh...." and I knew then it was a waste of time.
I think he was speaking of undertaking on a motorway or dual carraigeway. Nobody could condone undertaking on a two lane road. Insane.
But as far as dual carraigeway or motorways are concerned, the outside lane is an overtaking lane. Full stop. Check the rules of the road. Unless you are overtaking you have no business in the outside lane. To argue otherwise is to argue against the rules of the road, and is therefor at best irresponsible and at maybe even wreckless.0 -
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Do you believe a car NOT travelling at the speed limit should move over to let other cars pass?And I don't necessarily agree that a car travelling at the speed limit should have to move out of the way to let a boy racer or some other speed freak pass them by. That's a form of bullying behaviour on the roads.
I was considering this point as I drove the long drive from Dublin to Cork on Sunday. Ahead of me was a stream of about 20-25 cars stuck behind a jeep with a horsebox going at 40mph.
I believe in France and other European countries there is an enforced law (good manners in my opinion) where if there are 5 cars queuing behind you and you are not driving at the speed limit, then you must pull over and let them pass or else face penalties under law.0 -
...But as far as dual carraigeway or motorways are concerned, the outside lane is an overtaking lane. Full stop. Check the rules of the road. Unless you are overtaking you have no business in the outside lane. To argue otherwise is to argue against the rules of the road, and is therefor at best irresponsible and at maybe even wreckless.
I wasn't referring to a dual carriageway. In fact the stretch of road in question occurs just at the end of the dual carriageway out of Cork as you pass the Blarney Business Park - it's a two-lane section.Do you believe a car NOT travelling at the speed limit should move over to let other cars pass?
I was considering this point as I drove the long drive from Dublin to Cork on Sunday. Ahead of me was a stream of about 20-25 cars stuck behind a jeep with a horsebox going at 40mph.
I believe in France and other European countries there is an enforced law (good manners in my opinion) where if there are 5 cars queuing behind you and you are not driving at the speed limit, then you must pull over and let them pass or else face penalties under law.
I've no problem with that at all. I've come across it loads of times. The only contradiction here when that occurs is that if a driver moves over into the hard margin to allow others to pass, (s)he's committing an offence as I understand it as you're not allowed to use the hard margin to drive in. Isn't it a points offence??0 -
A lot of people think this but the law says that you are not allowed to drive in the hard shoulder, you can pull over briefly to allow others to pass though as long as it is safe to so if i recall correctly but i must check it out again.I've no problem with that at all. I've come across it loads of times. The only contradiction here when that occurs is that if a driver moves over into the hard margin to allow others to pass, (s)he's committing an offence as I understand it as you're not allowed to use the hard margin to drive in. Isn't it a points offence??
It is also common courtesy in my opinion regardless of whether the car you are pulling in for is breaking the speed limit or not, we are not the traffic corp is is our duty as motorists to drive safely and courtesely, just because one may think it is discouteous of another motorist to break the limit, this does not give one the right to enforce the limit by refusing to pull over.0 -
A lot of people think this but the law says that you are not allowed to drive in the hard shoulder, you can pull over briefly to allow others to pass though as long as it is safe to so if i recall correctly but i must check it out again...
I stand corrected - For a road with a single broken yellow line along the side of the road:This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways.
Just noticed an interesting statement on the www.rulesoftheroad.ie website: It seems that "you must not (their emphasis not mine!) break the speed limit when overtaking"!0 -
I wasn't going to bother replying or adding anymore to this thread as I am shocked by some of the nonsense I'm reading- but there are some really "cocky" drivers out there who seem to think they are driving in a parallel universe where nothing bad will ever happen to them if they go fast - as speed doesn't kill! Fine! Stay there on your little planet - just keep off the Irish roads, as I don't want you driving anywhere near me!!!
What are you on about, how exactly does speed kill ? (Besides the powdered shíte people snort up their nostrils)
Did you read my post, the op probably didn't even break the speed limit !
Speed limits in Ireland are completely inappropriate, 80 kp/h speed limits on roads barely wide enough for one car, yet people think its safe because thats the limit. And then someone travels at 1 or 2 kp/h over the limit on a road thats safe at this speed and its automatically dangerous ?
In fareness its 10 times safer driving in Europe, at least they've taken some sort of Driving test and training.
I'll drive wherever i like man, tbh you sound like you've a classic example of brainwashing through RSA ads "SPEED KILLS"
How about "LEARN HOW TO DRIVE.. NOT KNOWING HOW TO FOLLOW THE RULES KILLS PEOPLE"
Besides, you should be watching your speed, but you really should pay attention to the road as well.
Common sense and driver courtesy + knowing and following the rules of the road is alot less deadly that staring at your speedo when going from a 60 into a 50 zone.0 -
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Just noticed an interesting statement on the www.rulesoftheroad.ie website: It seems that "you must not (their emphasis not mine!) break the speed limit when overtaking"!
Wow - that's a dangerous rule I would have thought! I mean, is there anything more dangerous that someone taking half a year to overtake you? I would have thought a quick overtake (dropping gear) would be the safest option, but I guess I must be wrong!0 -
Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.
It doesn't matter how carefully "YOU" drive or "I" drive - but it depends on how quickly "YOU" react and "I" react when somebody else does something wrong or stupid.
So anything can happen on the road - and if you're breaking the speed limit - when something happens - and there is a pile up or an accident - because several people were BREAKING THE LAW in either they way they drove, or the speed they drove - then you are all equally guilty. A friend of mine, a law abiding citizen and a good driver was stopped at traffic lights last year - and a speeding car with a young male driver, slammed into her, it wrote off her car, it left her in hospital with injuries - luckily in this case speed didn't kill my friend. But it could have. As several witnesses commented, he was going to fast to stop at the traffic lights.
I would never, ever assume I am beyond an accident, or something going wrong, I would never, ever assume I was the most magnificent driver on the road - I would like to think I drive carefully and abide by the rules of the road. Which is the law.
We have LAWS for a reason and I don't agree with every law in this country either - but as an adult I know if I break the law, then I will have to pay the penalty - as I would be committing a crime.
Please stop saying speed doens't kill - the reason hundreds of thousands of euro go onto campaigns with such a slogan is that there is proof that it does.0 -
Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.
It doesn't matter how carefully "YOU" drive or "I" drive - but it depends on how quickly "YOU" react and "I" react when somebody else does something wrong or stupid.
So anything can happen on the road - and if you're breaking the speed limit - when something happens - and there is a pile up or an accident - because several people were BREAKING THE LAW in either they way they drove, or the speed they drove - then you are all equally guilty. A friend of mine, a law abiding citizen and a good driver was stopped at traffic lights last year - and a speeding car with a young male driver, slammed into her, it wrote off her car, it left her in hospital with injuries - luckily in this case speed didn't kill my friend. But it could have. As several witnesses commented, he was going to fast to stop at the traffic lights.
I would never, ever assume I am beyond an accident, or something going wrong, I would never, ever assume I was the most magnificent driver on the road - I would like to think I drive carefully and abide by the rules of the road. Which is the law.
We have LAWS for a reason and I don't agree with every law in this country either - but as an adult I know if I break the law, then I will have to pay the penalty - as I would be committing a crime.
Please stop saying speed doens't kill - the reason hundreds of thousands of euro go onto campaigns with such a slogan is that there is proof that it does.
**yaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnn** .. you're still completely ignoring that:
A. The OP didn't break the speed limit.
B. Your talking about somebody who is looking where their going vs an idiot who wasnt looking where he was going and crashed into a stationary car ?
To use your example of speed being a factor with regard to pileups, the most recent one was on the M50 and in this case fog was the cause .. does fog kill too ? No, it was idiots driving too fast and not maintaining distance from the cars in front of them, even though they were driving under the speed limit.
Which is more of a danger here ... people driving over the speed limit, or people on the road that have never taken a driving test or had any form of instruction what so ever ?
The government should work on fixing the attitude and stop with the propaganda and flashy phrases .. arive alive, speed kills, belt up. Jesus H, why can't they just educate people in school about this basic stuff and stop trying to make road safety glitzy, when in they should just broach it as common sense.0 -
Wow - that's a dangerous rule I would have thought! I mean, is there anything more dangerous that someone taking half a year to overtake you? I would have thought a quick overtake (dropping gear) would be the safest option, but I guess I must be wrong!
I remember being behind two trucks coming down from Dublin once, somewhere around the Curragh. One was trying to pass out the other and the inside one was doing whatever it's max speed was. The outside truck couldn't go any faster, so they blocked both lanes for what must have been 2-3 miles!
It's true, it is a silly rule.0 -
From your previous sentence in reference to the pile up due to fog and you also stated - "NO IT WAS IDIOTS DRIVING TOO FAST....................... " Craichoe - would that not imply SPEED???
And when it comes to watching where you are going - have you ever driven and had a fit of sneezing - I have - and you could be blinded for several seconds. I'm being careful, I'm watching where I'm going but things happen. Yes, I think we've all gone well off track from the original poster - but yawn as much as you like - which reminds me - ever had a great big yawn whilst driving - anything can make you lose concentration for a second or two and that's all it takes!0 -
Incidentially i disagree with this totally, road 'accidents' are caused.Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.
However to reiteriate my earlier point speed doesn't kill. It in itself is not a killer. The example given of the 'young male' who crashed into a stationary car is pure stupidity, clearly they were not paying attention to what was happening around them had the situation been different than there would be no issue with the speed they were driving. This is not merely playing with semantics yes there is very little difference in saying that speed was to blame and the speed of the driver for the given situation was to blame. However there is a major difference in the reaction of the authorities and peoples perception of what is causing accidents. By blaming speed the reaction from authorities is what we have now, inappropriate speed limits and inappropriate policing, not surprisingly there are no statistics available for the number of points issued for speedin in 50/60km zones where drivers were less than 10 km over the limit, i point this out because in many cases people don't realise they are this far over and have natuarlly risen to these speeds because the road conditions etc are inappropriate for the speed control. It is also unsurprising that these stretches of road are being policied heavily, cynical revenue generating.
Reaction of many road users is to drive grossly irresponsibly but within the speed limit and throughly belive they are not responsible for any of the problems on our roads.
Speed does not kill stupidity does, this may well include driving at a speed inappropriate for the given situation/conditions but essentially is as a result of bad driving habits, poor observation, lack of knowledge of the rules of the road and of course plain old fashioned stupidity.
By blaming speed alone or drink alone we are selling ourselves short and regardless of how stronly we belive it it will not make it true and as long as the authorities are allowed to spoon feed us this crap noting will actually change on our roads while at the same time the authorities and government can claim they are acting upon the problem and are taking the best coures of action to solve the problem when in fact they are tackiling nothing and are charging us a hell of a lot in the process.0 -
There is an interesting article in the papers this morning saying that accidents have dropped by 60% on roads where the authorities have gotten rid of black spots and done some work on the roads. I must look for the article online so I can reference it here - but it just shows how much the state of our roads contributes to road deaths.
There were other interesting stats there too, but I can't remember them off hand as I just had a breeze through the papers on the stands this morning. I'll post a reference as soon as I find one.0 -
From your previous sentence in reference to the pile up due to fog and you also stated - "NO IT WAS IDIOTS DRIVING TOO FAST....................... " Craichoe - would that not imply SPEED???
And when it comes to watching where you are going - have you ever driven and had a fit of sneezing - I have - and you could be blinded for several seconds. I'm being careful, I'm watching where I'm going but things happen. Yes, I think we've all gone well off track from the original poster - but yawn as much as you like - which reminds me - ever had a great big yawn whilst driving - anything can make you lose concentration for a second or two and that's all it takes!
I give up .. your all over the place with your points and choosing to ignore that which doesnt fit into what your saying.
Speed limits are not an indication of how fast you can drive i.e. 80kp/h limit on a road only fit to be driven on at 20 - 30 kp/h
Speed doesn't kill, the person choosing to drive in a certain manner does, its their choice to do that. Guns don't kill, a shovel doesn't kill unless someone chooses to hit you over the head with it.
and again
Your completely ignoring that the op didnt break the speed limit.
Common sense, driver training and courtesy on the road are more important than anything else.0 -
Well i've always felt that the road condiions pay are the largest factor in collisions/deaths on the roads in Ireland. If you notice many deaths occur on roads with uneven surface poor sign posting etc.There were other interesting stats there too, but I can't remember them off hand as I just had a breeze through the papers on the stands this morning. I'll post a reference as soon as I find one.
One article you won't find however is on the criteria for how are speed limits assigned/extended. Howverer it is important to bear in mind that land bordering an 80km/ph road is much harder to get planning on than a road boredering a 50/60kmph road. It is also important to note that for non national roads the local council stes the speed limit. Now why on earth would counsellors extend a limit for no reason...............?0 -
Interesting stats here:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/most-fatal-crashes-occur-on-singlecarriageway-roads-1381631.html
Including "New motorways and dual carriageways are the safest in the country;" Funny how the Gardai sit on those roads most of the time. Nothing to do with making a few bob I guess.
Good to see some positive news though:
"In 2005 the EuroRAP report found 96km of the network in the Republic was classified as ‘Black – High Risk’, but all those links have now been repaired, and overall the 2008 report finds that there are no ‘High Risk’ sections on the network."0 -
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Interesting stats here:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/most-fatal-crashes-occur-on-singlecarriageway-roads-1381631.html
Including "New motorways and dual carriageways are the safest in the country;" Funny how the Gardai sit on those roads most of the time. Nothing to do with making a few bob I guess.
Good to see some positive news though:
"In 2005 the EuroRAP report found 96km of the network in the Republic was classified as ‘Black – High Risk’, but all those links have now been repaired, and overall the 2008 report finds that there are no ‘High Risk’ sections on the network."
So if theres no High risk areas then theres must be no risk and hence no accidents, but there is accidents and hence ones with higher rates than others, so there must be High Risk areas since there are ones with low risk.0 -
So if theres no High risk areas then theres must be no risk and hence no accidents, but there is accidents and hence ones with higher rates than others, so there must be High Risk areas since there are ones with low risk.
Your logic is flawed. There are no high risk, but there are plenty medium risk, and also low risk areas still to be taken care of. It says so in the article linked to above.0
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