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9 Gardai 3 squad cars for revenge posse beats up man, 4 face dismissal
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Seems templemore will take anybody these days. In the old days, if a gard could not deliver a good beating he would never have been accepted.
Now they need a squad of fellas to beat up a child.
What is this country coming too.0 -
FTA 69 - To be known to a Garda from the course of his duties he'd have to be a regular customer of theirs. If the altercation arose from this then he's being assaulted for being a Garda. I think that is more serious than 'standard' assault.
Gardaí should receive absolute protection from the courts in the form of no tolerance or excuses for assaults carried on them.
Doesn't condone their alleged response.0 -
FTA 69 - To be known to a Garda from the course of his duties he'd have to be a regular customer of theirs. If the altercation arose from this then he's being assaulted for being a Garda. I think that is more serious than 'standard' assault.
Gardaí should receive absolute protection from the courts in the form of no tolerance or excuses for assaults carried on them.
Doesn't condone their alleged response.
“The alleged incident occurred 24 hours after a garda, walking home after a night out, became involved in an altercation with a 19-yearold member of the public. The garda knew the identity of the individual from the course of his duties and words were exchanged which led to a fight.
A number of punches were exchanged and the 19-year-old got the better of the garda before both parties separated.”
It doesn’t say here who started the fight, maybe the guard did. Lots of Guards are not so tough when they are not backed up by half a dozen of their colleagues. Maybe this fellow was mouthing off and bit off more than he could chew.0 -
Get a grip on yourselves lads. Your talking like the Gardai are some sort of Military Junta like over in Burma. Were so used to human rights and "tip toe justice" in this country that we complain about everything, when in fact we have it so good. At least they arent coming out to shoot you for the disrespect you have shown, which is what would happen in some places.
And the reason we have human rights is because we are unwilling to put up with that type of carry-on.nipplenuts wrote: »The only people I know who fear the gardai are not "decent people"
What would you define people who mistrust them as?0 -
Erin Go Brath wrote: »Thats a riduclous comparison to be making.
I suppose the government are doing a wonderful job of running the country because we're not in the middle of a famine aswell
Thats not what I was saying. Im just saying that everyone seems to blow everything out of proportion0 -
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I came across this thread by accident and cannot believe some of what is being said here![cm]tyranny wrote: »have you seen the application tests to get into the gardai? it's not like you need to be an intellectual giant...purplengold wrote: »We all know that you don’t have to have the intellect of a brain surgeon to be a Guard.
In one sentence both of you have insulted every probationer, serving, retired, or deceased member of An Garda Siochana as well as their friends and families, my father (now retired) had a degree in accountancy before he joined up in the 60's, he was not a stupid man, like the majority of Gardai he believed that in joining the cops he could do a good job and serve the public and keep the peace. There are college graduates from all disciplines serving in the force the length and breath of Ireland, doing a job i doubt you would do for the same salary... Breaking up fights outside nightclubs at 3am and risk having a bottle split over your head? Or arresting a known HIV infected junkie and having him spit on you? Pulling an injured party out of a burning vehicle after an RTA, informing a mother that her 17 year old son is dead after a Traffic accident?
These are the kind of things that Gardai do, day in day out with no thanks and people like ye have the cheek to turn around and insult them? Give me a break!nhughes100 wrote: »Very believable and the tip of the iceberg imo
The ever increasing stories about Garda corruption coming to light in the media and the nod nod wink wink way the Gardai operate.
I think there's plenty of evidence in this case thats neither hearsay of conjecture, the framing case in Donegal and the ever increasing number of people knocked down and killed by off and on duty Gardai that never quite seem to add up.
In no way shape or form do the Gardai "Nod Nod Wink Wink" at members of the force who do wrong, the average teenager in court for a first offence involving petty theft or a minor assault will walk out the court room door with a slap on the wrist, a Garda, accused of the same type of offence faces disciplinary proceedings with potentially far more serious consequences, where is the Nod Nod there?
I would suggest that you wait until the hearing has been completed and the full facts are known before drawing your conclusions, if you were accused of something you would expect the presumption of innocence, is a Garda not entitled to the same?
The officers involved in the debacle in Donegal did the force in general no favours but given the number of gardai (over 12k) in the country it is hardly surprising that there are some bad apples but it is grossly unfair to the vast majority of honest decent hardworking Gardai to tar them all with the same brush!
The media takes pleasure in mentioning the occupation of the driver when off duty Gardai are involved in accidents, you rarely hear of a driver's occupation when it's an off duty doctor / vet / accountant!
Case in point the media made a massive deal of it when Sergeant Tania Corcoran died tragically in the Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda hospital after giving birth to twins last year, can ANYONE tell me why her occupation was relevant? Just the media giving it spin again!!
Final thought for today, before you go bashing the cops in general because of a few bad ones, spare a thought for the following:
1) The widow of the late Detective Garda Jerry McCabe
2) Detective Garda Ben O'Sullivan
3) Sergeant Andrew Callanan
4) Garda Thomas Lehane
5) Garda Patrick O'Hara
6) Sergeant Michael McConalogue
7) Garda Jude Ainsworth
8) Garda Laurence Bergin
10) Garda Padraic Powell
11) Sergeant Aidan McGuinness
12) Garda John Dollard
all recipients of Scot Medals in July 2000 (further info from http://ted.examiner.ie/archives/2000/july/7/current/ipage_5.htm)
And the objective of the scott medal:
"No action, however heroic, will merit the award of the Scott medal unless it takes the shape of an act of personal bravery, performed intelligently in the execution of duty at imminent risk to the life of the doer, and armed with full previous knowledge of the risk involved". (source www.garda.ie)
It's less than 12 months since Garda Paul Sherlock was shot in Dublin
Garda Anthony Tighe, 53, and Garda Michael Padden, 27, were killed in a collision with a stolen car in Stillorgan in April 2002, but i suppose that was their fault was it?
An estimated 31 officers have been killed or murdered since 1922, and nine more have died in patrol car accidents.
Think of that little statistic before you go shooting your mouth off!0 -
As someone who has a daughter in the process of joining the Gardai,I am fed up with the people who think all Gardai are educationally inferior to themselves when they are the ones who are sometimes grossly intellectually, educationally and civically inferior to the Gardai.My own daughter is highly educated to Masters level as are four of her friends who are also joining.They also are committed voluntary workers in the community and are the type of people this country should be proud of producing to protect and help the citizens of this country.
Any Garda who is accused of breaking the law should be dealt with by the same laws as the rest of us and the fact he/she is a Garda should not mean guilty until proven innocent which can be the attitude of some elements of the media and the public and even more worringly,some politicians.
I feel that if the same accountability was applied to all our public services we would have a lot more worrying matters to deal with than a few rotten Gardai in a force of 12000.For instance,how many people have died or been irreparably damaged by bad practices and incompetent people in our hospitals by nursing, medical,health staff?Where is the Ombudsman for this?
Give the Gardai a break and realise that the bad ones do not represent the whole force anymore than an incompetent nurse or doctor represents the whole of the nursing or medical professions.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »My point was that the "hang the guards" brigade seem to have overlooked the fact that the Guard was assaulted.
As you say, assault is assault. So, like I asked earlier why is the scumbag not up for assault.
You seem to have overlooked the fact that (reportedly) it wasn't a case of some poor Guard being ambushed and beaten up, rather a cop involving himself in a street brawl.
“The alleged incident occurred 24 hours after a garda, walking home after a night out
In a sober mindset no doubt.became involved in an altercation with a 19-yearold member of the public. The garda knew the identity of the individual from the course of his duties and words were exchanged which led to a fight.
In other words he probably came across some local youngfella he had trouble with before, and the two of them ended up in a scrap. The Guard is equally guilty of affray if that is the case.A number of punches were exchanged and the 19-year-old got the better of the garda before both parties separated.”
If punches were exchanged that would indicate to me it was a brawl as opposed to a clear assault on a Guard. To be honest the whole thing is a farce, some cop gets into a row with a youngfella, ends up fighting on the street like some sort of scumbag, loses the aforementioned fight and then gets his buddies to raid the youngfella's house.
I've no sympathy for any party concerned here really.0 -
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angelfire9 wrote: »I came across this thread by accident and cannot believe some of what is being said here!
In one sentence both of you have insulted every probationer, serving, retired, or deceased member of An Garda Siochana as well as their friends and families, my father (now retired) had a degree in accountancy before he joined up in the 60's, he was not a stupid man, like the majority of Gardai he believed that in joining the cops he could do a good job and serve the public and keep the peace. There are college graduates from all disciplines serving in the force the length and breath of Ireland, doing a job i doubt you would do for the same salary... Breaking up fights outside nightclubs at 3am and risk having a bottle split over your head? Or arresting a known HIV infected junkie and having him spit on you? Pulling an injured party out of a burning vehicle after an RTA, informing a mother that her 17 year old son is dead after a Traffic accident?
These are the kind of things that Gardai do, day in day out with no thanks and people like ye have the cheek to turn around and insult them? Give me a break!
In no way shape or form do the Gardai "Nod Nod Wink Wink" at members of the force who do wrong, the average teenager in court for a first offence involving petty theft or a minor assault will walk out the court room door with a slap on the wrist, a Garda, accused of the same type of offence faces disciplinary proceedings with potentially far more serious consequences, where is the Nod Nod there?
I would suggest that you wait until the hearing has been completed and the full facts are known before drawing your conclusions, if you were accused of something you would expect the presumption of innocence, is a Garda not entitled to the same?
The officers involved in the debacle in Donegal did the force in general no favours but given the number of gardai (over 12k) in the country it is hardly surprising that there are some bad apples but it is grossly unfair to the vast majority of honest decent hardworking Gardai to tar them all with the same brush!
The media takes pleasure in mentioning the occupation of the driver when off duty Gardai are involved in accidents, you rarely hear of a driver's occupation when it's an off duty doctor / vet / accountant!
Case in point the media made a massive deal of it when Sergeant Tania Corcoran died tragically in the Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda hospital after giving birth to twins last year, can ANYONE tell me why her occupation was relevant? Just the media giving it spin again!!
Final thought for today, before you go bashing the cops in general because of a few bad ones, spare a thought for the following:
1) The widow of the late Detective Garda Jerry McCabe
2) Detective Garda Ben O'Sullivan
3) Sergeant Andrew Callanan
4) Garda Thomas Lehane
5) Garda Patrick O'Hara
6) Sergeant Michael McConalogue
7) Garda Jude Ainsworth
8) Garda Laurence Bergin
10) Garda Padraic Powell
11) Sergeant Aidan McGuinness
12) Garda John Dollard
all recipients of Scot Medals in July 2000 (further info from http://ted.examiner.ie/archives/2000/july/7/current/ipage_5.htm)
And the objective of the scott medal:
"No action, however heroic, will merit the award of the Scott medal unless it takes the shape of an act of personal bravery, performed intelligently in the execution of duty at imminent risk to the life of the doer, and armed with full previous knowledge of the risk involved". (source www.garda.ie)
It's less than 12 months since Garda Paul Sherlock was shot in Dublin
Garda Anthony Tighe, 53, and Garda Michael Padden, 27, were killed in a collision with a stolen car in Stillorgan in April 2002, but i suppose that was their fault was it?
An estimated 31 officers have been killed or murdered since 1922, and nine more have died in patrol car accidents.
Think of that little statistic before you go shooting your mouth off!
Not one person has condoned the murder of a Garda..calm down.0 -
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“In one sentence both of you have insulted every probationer, serving, retired, or deceased member of An Garda Siochana as well as their friends and families, my father (now retired) had a degree in accountancy before he joined up in the 60's, he was not a stupid man, like the majority of Gardai he believed that in joining the cops he could do a good job and serve the public and keep the peace. There are college graduates from all disciplines serving in the force the length and breath of Ireland, doing a job i doubt you would do for the same salary... Breaking up fights outside nightclubs at 3am and risk having a bottle split over your head? Or arresting a known HIV infected junkie and having him spit on you? Pulling an injured party out of a burning vehicle after an RTA, informing a mother that her 17 year old son is dead after a Traffic accident?
These are the kind of things that Gardai do, day in day out with no thanks and people like ye have the cheek to turn around and insult them? Give me a break!”
First of all, I am sure you father is a fine man. But no one put a gun to his head and made him join the Guards. Second, I’m sure there are plenty of guards with 3rd level education, but the vast majority of guards do not have a degree, it’s just not necessary. IMO people join the guards because it is a good paying, pensionable job. You can retire after 30 years service (with said pension), when you are still relatively active and go into a nice cushy job lined up for you by the old boys net work. And what do you mean they get no thanks? They get well paid, and if they get even slightly injured, or go deaf from listening to dogs barking they get very well compensated. If they can’t stand the heat, well get out of the kitchen. Like I said, no one forced them into the uniform.0 -
cops have died and have been injured so what? what that gotta do with extrajudicial punishment dealt out by guards on the job?0
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No one is going to give Dean Lyons a medal, he was a junkie from Tallaght so he'll do nicely for a frameup job.
There'll be 10 times the amount of people killed on the roads this year then Gardai have been killed since the formation of the state cos we can drive the length and breadth of the country with good odds in your favour of never running into a checkpoint.
while you're quoting statistics Angelfire, How many bullets did they put into John Mc Carthy?
How many people have gone down to local Garda station after waiting for hours for a response only to see 6,7,8 cars parked up in the car park. I myself was left waiting there until they were finished watching the sunday game was over one evening a few years ago after having a few windows broken in my house by scumbags they refuse to deal with.
I've clearly stated in previous posts the Gardai need to be better trained, better resourced and better paid, I do wonder why someone would do that job for the crap money they start out on. But as I've been told by many a Garda, there's plenty of hidden extras. Check out your local pub that the Gardai like to frequent, there'll be smoke billowing out of the place and no closing time either. Overtime on tap hence the almost zero co-operation with the Garda reserve, I actually would admit to once thinking of joining the Garda reserve again only to be put off by serving members.
I feel genuinely sorry for the Garda that has the genuine calling for law enforcement, my experience is that they are in the extreme minority. My stated opinion is that there will be many more Garda scandels in upcoming years and would have been many more in the past only for their unique ability to investigate themselves.0 -
I'd like to see film crews following the Gardai around in a series like Road Wars on Sky One, just to compare.
The British police forces all had their scandals and it has pretty much all been routed out at this stage. Our Gardai still haven't gone through that process IMO.
Ironically we have one of the most accountable police forces alongside one of the most unaccountable in Europe on this little island.
There are obviously decent individuals in the Guards who genuinely join to make a difference but there are also many who join for other reasons. They are totally under resourced of course-rubbish equipment and pay compared to up north.0 -
purplengold wrote: »IMO people join the guards because it is a good paying, pensionable job. You can retire after 30 years service (with said pension), when you are still relatively active and go into a nice cushy job lined up for you by the old boys net work. And what do you mean they get no thanks? They get well paid, and if they get even slightly injured, or go deaf from listening to dogs barking they get very well compensated. If they can’t stand the heat, well get out of the kitchen. Like I said, no one forced them into the uniform.
Well paid? My husband is a serving member who earns less than i do with 20 years down (i only graduated from college in 1998), he gets no OT cos he's on restricted duties due to an injury sustained on duty in the DMA, he was more than slightly injured and NO AMOUNT of compensation can bring his health back and yet he is still serving he could have taken early retirement but he didn't cos he like thousands of other cops are not in the job cos its a cushy number it's not a bloody cushy number, people like you have no clue what it's like.
Remember Brendan Patrick O'Donnell? in 1994 he terrorised a vast area of Clare, on the day he was arrested Clare FM were broadcasting messages telling people to stay in their houses, close their curtains, lock their doors because O'Donnell had already killed 3 people and had kidnapped a 4th, i remember sitting at home with my mother listening to the radio while the Clare Garda Division searched the woods in East Clare for him, in the days before mobile phones were in wide use the radio broadcast stated that shots were fired as O'Donnell was arrested, he actually shot and injured a detective based in Ennis, can you imagine what it was like for my mother and I waiting at home not knowing what was happening or who was shot or how badly they were injured and the relief when my father got home 4/5 hours later?? Being a cop is in many ways like being a nurse or doctor its a vocation, my father served until he reached retirement age, he wasn't in it for the money or the pension he could have earned far more as an accountant, he was in it to keep the streets safe and arrest people like O'Donnell and Dessie O'Hare aka the Border Fox who was arrested in this division following the kidnapping of Don Tidey
Admittedly no one forced him or my husband or any other cop into the uniform but i don't know how you can dare criticise them and the work they do when you know damn well it's a job you'd never dare to do yourself.
You're going to love my opinion on this one, John Carty fired indiscriminately at unarmed gardai he deserved everything he got, they tried to disarm him it failed they did not shoot to kill they shot to disable and he kept coming, John Carty is not an example of Gardai doing wrong, the Gardai were damn right! End of story!nhughes100 wrote: »while you're quoting statistics Angelfire, How many bullets did they put into John Mc Carthy?
With your attitude i doubt they would have taken you anyway!nhughes100 wrote: »I actually would admit to once thinking of joining the Garda reserve again only to be put off by serving members.
I don't support the concept of the Garda Reserve as it currently exists and i believe that is an opinion shared by the majority of GRA and AGSI members
You are so wrong its laughable you haven't got a clue really you don't there are far better paid cushy jobs out there than An Garda Siochana for the well educated fit and intelligent young men and women in Ireland and yet they keep joining up... do the math!nhughes100 wrote: »I feel genuinely sorry for the Garda that has the genuine calling for law enforcement, my experience is that they are in the extreme minority.0 -
AngelFire, First of all don't tell me or anyone else on this board that they haven't a clue, if you want to disagree with me and others fine. State your opinion and facts as you have them but do not insinuate that I am some clueless idiot who just has a chip on his shoulder about the Gardai when the arguments I have presented are either on public record or my own experience of the Gardai.
Why do they keep joining up? I dunno, permenant & pensionable maybe or like I stated in a previous post, the stroke opportunities.
As for your John Carty comment - I think it's pretty sick. They wouldn't give him a few cigerettes but they'd no problem shooting him. The man had obvious psyscological problems, they could have smoked him out or used non lethal force. They over reacted, it's not like he had an uzi, he had a shotgun that was ineffective at long range and against body armour.
I'm not surprised you don't support the Garda reserve, do you support the Garda ombudsman or do you tow the GRA/AGSI line on that too? They don't want Johnny public seeing what really goes on.
We criticise because criticism is due. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend we have a transparent effective police force in this country feel free but you really should take off them rose tinted glasses first. Admit there are problems and deal with them, thats what any effective organisation would do.0 -
“do the math!”
Irish people do not use this term, we say maths. Are you an American? If so why are you banging on about the Gardai?0 -
bartholomewbinn wrote: »“do the math!”
Irish people do not use this term, we say maths. Are you an American? If so why are you banging on about the Gardai?
What a ridiculous comment to make0 -
Jumping to conclusions a little there. Any Gardai I know, make a serious attempt at keeping their head down where they're out in civvies, regardless of how drunk they are.In other words he probably came across some local youngfella he had trouble with before, and the two of them ended up in a scrap. The Guard is equally guilty of affray if that is the case.
They're the last people who would engage with a scumbag they'd arrested, unless they were left with no choice.
It's equally likely that the scumbag jumped the Garda, which basically leaves him with no choice but to fight back.
In my experience, dodgy Gardai are in the extreme minority. In my experience, people who claim that almost every Garda is corruption walking, has a tendency to put themselves into situations that requires a Garda to intervene, or otherwise have an anti-establishment agenda.nhughes100 wrote: »I feel genuinely sorry for the Garda that has the genuine calling for law enforcement, my experience is that they are in the extreme minority.
John Carty is irrelevant. Most people agree that the right action was taken. If a person points a gun at someone else, loaded or unloaded, jokingly or serious, that's a very serious issue.nhughes100 wrote: »As for your John Carty comment - I think it's pretty sick. They wouldn't give him a few cigerettes but they'd no problem shooting him. The man had obvious psyscological problems, they could have smoked him out or used non lethal force. They over reacted, it's not like he had an uzi, he had a shotgun that was ineffective at long range and against body armour.0 -
And this is your professional opinion as a long-standing member of an armed police unit with extensive experience in dealing with standoffs of this kind?nhughes100 wrote: »As for your John Carty comment - I think it's pretty sick. They wouldn't give him a few cigerettes but they'd no problem shooting him. The man had obvious psyscological problems, they could have smoked him out or used non lethal force. They over reacted, it's not like he had an uzi, he had a shotgun that was ineffective at long range and against body armour.
Maybe the ERU just didn't watch enough movies - they could have learned how to shoot the gun out of his hand, or something.0 -
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brayblue24 wrote: »What a ridiculous comment to make
Yes it is a ridiculous comment, I hate the word math, on this side of the Atlantic one should always say maths.0 -
nhughes100 wrote: »As for your John Carty comment - I think it's pretty sick. They wouldn't give him a few cigerettes but they'd no problem shooting him. The man had obvious psyscological problems, they could have smoked him out or used non lethal force. They over reacted, it's not like he had an uzi, he had a shotgun that was ineffective at long range and against body armour.
If that shotgun had proved in any way effective whatsoever, would you be on here complaining that the Gardai hadn't acted prior to an innocent member of the public getting hurt ?
Not giving a siege person stuff is standard practice.....without food, cigs, etc, someone is more likely to give up.
I'm not saying this was a complete black-or-white issue, but if I wandered around the neighbourhood here waving a shotgun, I pretty much know what I could expect; if someone intervened before that, fair enough, but I couldn't complain if it came to the same end result.0 -
I didn't realise you had to be a member of a specialist unit to have an opinion but maybe Oscarbravo should familiarise himself with non lethal force. There's plenty of examples to be found outside of Hollywood, wouldn't be a great film if they threw in a tear gas/pepper spray grenade, the siege ended and not a shot was fired now would it?
I dunno about standard practice to not give not to give the people in a siege situation stuff, it's used as a negotiating tool to buy time, information and hostages if any. Anyone who's ever watched a siege documentary on any of the Discovery/history channels can see this for themselves since I'm not in the SAS. John Carty was only a danger to himself and the way his family and especially his sister have been treated since his death is disgraceful. It was not like a Hungerford/Columbine operation.
I would have thought a police marksman could hit an arm or a leg, incapacitating the individual first instead of shooting him from all angles. The place was cordoned off, there was no members of the public to hurt.
Just remember there is no death penalty in this country, this applies to the ERU. Lethal force as a last resort when other lives are being seriously threatened.
I'll be the first to admit those guys robbing the post office in Lusk deserved to be shot and killed, John Carty was a completely different operation and needed to be handled differently.0 -
Perhaps you should ask police marksmen all over the world whether they think that would be a good idea.nhughes100 wrote: »I didn't realise you had to be a member of a specialist unit to have an opinion but maybe Oscarbravo should familiarise himself with non lethal force.
...
I would have thought a police marksman could hit an arm or a leg, incapacitating the individual first instead of shooting him from all angles. The place was cordoned off, there was no members of the public to hurt.
And you're absolutely, utterly certain that no lives were being threatened, are you? You think the ERU shot a man just for kicks?Just remember there is no death penalty in this country, this applies to the ERU. Lethal force as a last resort when other lives are being seriously threatened.
I'm sure you'll be called in as a consultant next time.I'll be the first to admit those guys robbing the post office in Lusk deserved to be shot and killed, John Carty was a completely different operation and needed to be handled differently.0 -
This has been done to death, but "police marksmen" the world over, aim for the torso, without exception. If you aim for a small part of the body such as an arm, hand or leg, you have a much greater chance of missing and hitting an innocent bystander or one of your own guys.nhughes100 wrote: »I would have thought a police marksman could hit an arm or a leg, incapacitating the individual first instead of shooting him from all angles. The place was cordoned off, there was no members of the public to hurt.
Shooting for extremities may also just enrage an already unstable individual and cause them to open fire.0 -
"I'm sure you'll be called in as a consultant next time"
OscarBravo maybe you should read the rules of posting before attacking the poster and not the post.0 -
bartholomewbinn wrote: »“do the math!”
Irish people do not use this term, we say maths. Are you an American? If so why are you banging on about the Gardai?
Nope, i'm Irish born and bred, daughter of a cop, wife of a cop
It's very easy for some one without any experience to judge the Gardai and say that they know better when it's obvious they don't, the arguments you have presented are twisted to show the Gardai in the worst possible light and that says something about you, in my opinion you are totally clueless about what happens in An Garda Siochana in real life, its easy for those who sit at home on the couch every evening to make comments and suggestions about the people who go out every day doing a job they would never have the guts to do themselves!nhughes100 wrote: »AngelFire, First of all don't tell me or anyone else on this board that they haven't a clue, if you want to disagree with me and others fine. State your opinion and facts as you have them but do not insinuate that I am some clueless idiot who just has a chip on his shoulder about the Gardai when the arguments I have presented are either on public record or my own experience of the Gardai.
As i have already stated the permanent position and pension don't compensate for the crap Gardai go through!nhughes100 wrote: »Why do they keep joining up? I dunno, permenant & pensionable maybe or like I stated in a previous post, the stroke opportunities.
John Carty shot on numerous occassions at members of the Gardai both unarmed officers and members of the ERU, he was shot by the ERU several times to try and stop him, he kept coming until they had no choice but to take the last shot which killed himnhughes100 wrote: »As for your John Carty comment - I think it's pretty sick. They wouldn't give him a few cigerettes but they'd no problem shooting him. The man had obvious psyscological problems, they could have smoked him out or used non lethal force. They over reacted, it's not like he had an uzi, he had a shotgun that was ineffective at long range and against body armour.
These are the facts, they are undisputed, I have sympathy for his family it was a lose lose situation, no cop anywhere in the world likes to have to use lethal force the ERU don't go to work every morning hoping to get a chance to shoot at civilians but if you shoot at a cop you have to take the consequences!
I do not have a problem with the principle of the Garda Reserve but i do not support it in it's current guise.nhughes100 wrote: »I'm not surprised you don't support the Garda reserve, do you support the Garda ombudsman or do you tow the GRA/AGSI line on that too? They don't want Johnny public seeing what really goes on.
I do not have a problem with the Garda Ombudsman per se but it hasn't been around long enough to form an accurate opinion.
I admitted that there was a problem in Donegal, a small minority of members brought the entire force into disrepute, I don't wear rose coloured glasses and i don't have my head in the sand either, but what i do have which you obviously don't is respect for the Gardai.nhughes100 wrote:We criticise because criticism is due. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend we have a transparent effective police force in this country feel free but you really should take off them rose tinted glasses first. Admit there are problems and deal with them, thats what any effective organisation would do.
Ireland has one of the few remaining unarmed police forces in the world, in a day with more criminals than cops have guns I feel that the majority of good, decent hard working Gardai deserve a little bit of respect the job is hard enough without having to listen / read this type of crap
As a final note, you made another comment earlier that i would like to respond to:
Tell that to the family of Sergeant Tania Corcoran.. Which makes for a better headline:nhughes100 wrote: »Oh and more or less the same amount of newspapers are sold every day, people buy papers out of habit not because the Gardai are on the front page.
1 " Garda dies in Drogheda hospital"
2 " Woman dies in hopital while giving birth to twins"
The use of the word "Garda" in the first headline invokes the kind of response that unfortunately scandals in our health services no longer do and headline no. 1 will sell alot more papers than no. 20 -
I think that when a Garda dons the uniform they loose their individuality and become one part of a greater unit.
That said, when there is a corrupted part of the Gardai it is their responsibilty to root it out. Why should the public have to demand justice and to demand to remedy the problem of corruption in the Gards?
The fact that there are corrupt Gardai reflects upon all them all.
I believe from personal experience that laziness and corruption among that organisation is rife.
And i have no respect for them because of it.
If they want my respect, they'll have to earn it now as some of their members have previously trashed it.0 -
If you've got a problem with a post, report it.nhughes100 wrote: »"I'm sure you'll be called in as a consultant next time"
OscarBravo maybe you should read the rules of posting before attacking the poster and not the post.
I had a teacher once who was a complete asshat. He couldn't teach worth a damn, and bullied pupils mercilessly. In fact I had several teachers who were either incompetent, bullies or both.That said, when there is a corrupted part of the Gardai it is their responsibilty to root it out. Why should the public have to demand justice and to demand to remedy the problem of corruption in the Gards?
The fact that there are corrupt Gardai reflects upon all them all.
I believe from personal experience that laziness and corruption among that organisation is rife.
And i have no respect for them because of it.
If they want my respect, they'll have to earn it now as some of their members have previously trashed it.
As a result, I've lost all faith in the teaching profession. The fact that there are incompetent and bullying teachers reflects upon them all.
Is the above a fair assessment? Is it acceptable to tar all teachers with the same brush?0 -
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I think that when a Garda dons the uniform they loose their individuality and become one part of a greater unit.
That said, when there is a corrupted part of the Gardai it is their responsibilty to root it out. Why should the public have to demand justice and to demand to remedy the problem of corruption in the Gards?
The fact that there are corrupt Gardai reflects upon all them all.
I believe from personal experience that laziness and corruption among that organisation is rife.
And i have no respect for them because of it.
If they want my respect, they'll have to earn it now as some of their members have previously trashed it.
I agree that there have been incidents where Gardai deserved criticism, and i agree that "corrupt" Gardai reflect badly on the entire force
BUT.. if only some of them are bad do the good ones not deserve respect for the work that they are doing?
If you found a dozen bad apples in a box would you throw the whole box out?0
This discussion has been closed.
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