Secret Invasion (possible spoilers)

JangoFett

I just read Secret Invasion 1

I'm not a HUGE Marvel fan but I keep up to date on all their big stuff, I have several graphic novels from the last few years and I check up online and of course, my friend is pure Marvel so he keeps me updated.

I quite like the marketing; Who do you trust? With all the heroes done up as Skrulls in the pictures, its pretty ambitious, I like it

Secret Invasion has piqued my interest though so I went to the local store here in Perth and picked it up! It really pays off, it has several skrull reveals and there's a confrontation at the end that begs the questions...

What the hell?
Are THEY the real ones?
What does this mean for the last few years in the Marvel Universe?!
Whats with those costumes?

I'm very excited about this!

AngryBadger

Loved part I.

My only concern is will they use this as a massive reset akin to what DC tend to do every few years? I'd HATE that. Right now I love the Marvel 616 universe. Granted it's not all high caliber, but the way "Civil War" is still having SUCH an impact two years on really does it for me. Caps death, even Spidey going back to black, I feel there's a cohesion to Marvel right now that I haven't seen in the better part of two decades worth of story telling!

If they use the big reveal form the first issue of secret invasion to just supplant the current crop and basically erase everything that's happened in the last few years ("Hey, it wasn't really us, so we're all cool now") I will be massively cheesed off!

JangoFett

Ok, the bit where the people from the crashed ship confront the peopl already there....who's the real people

THAT is a chance at a major reboot...look at the character that are there off the ship!!!

AngryBadger

JangoFett wrote: »

THAT is a chance at a major reboot...look at the character that are there off the ship!!!

That's my exact point, and if they take said chance it will destroy my faith in/love of the Marvel U.

Also, you should really "spoiler alert" your posts man, some people may not have read Invasion #1 yet...'cause maybe they live in caves....so there's only enough light to read a page a day....and they have to walk 10 miles to the nearest well.....:p

Fysh

Big events aren't usually my thing and I don't really follow any Marvel or DC books enough to get much out of them, but I tend to keep an eye on them just out of curiosity. I flicked through Secret Invasion #1 when it hit my local store and that scene in the Savage Land is certainly interesting. It would be absolutely cheap writing of an astonishing degree to use this as a reset switch, particularly considering that the House Of M & Disassembled events already served as recent reboots.

Now, what has me curious is what it's going to build up to, because Marvel's recent Big Events have had varying impacts on the wider universe. House of M had that whole "no more mutants" thing, Disassembled split the Avengers into two groups, Civil War brought about registration and led to Cap getting shot, but World War Hulk ended with a bit of a cop-out and mostly minor changes.

Where do you think Secret Invasion is heading?

JangoFett

Spoiler alert would be saying who IS a skrull!!

but I won't

Marvel WILL use it as a reboot point for characters. Why else would

beast be at his 2nd mutation when he appears? The Skrull would KNOW the level of mutation earths heroes are at!!!!

It reeks of reboot!!

BlaasForRafa

AngryBadger wrote: »

That's my exact point, and if they take said chance it will destroy my faith in/love of the Marvel U.

Also, you should really "spoiler alert" your posts man, some people may not have read Invasion #1 yet...'cause maybe they live in caves....so there's only enough light to read a page a day....and they have to walk 10 miles to the nearest well.....:p

Some people have to wait for their monthly shipment of comics as there isn't a comic shop within a reasonable distance so mind what your saying please, some people aren't as lucky as others.

BlaasForRafa

Fysh wrote: »

Big events aren't usually my thing and I don't really follow any Marvel or DC books enough to get much out of them, but I tend to keep an eye on them just out of curiosity. I flicked through Secret Invasion #1 when it hit my local store and that scene in the Savage Land is certainly interesting. It would be absolutely cheap writing of an astonishing degree to use this as a reset switch, particularly considering that the House Of M & Disassembled events already served as recent reboots.

Now, what has me curious is what it's going to build up to, because Marvel's recent Big Events have had varying impacts on the wider universe. House of M had that whole "no more mutants" thing, Disassembled split the Avengers into two groups, Civil War brought about registration and led to Cap getting shot, but World War Hulk ended with a bit of a cop-out and mostly minor changes.

Where do you think Secret Invasion is heading?

Hopefully it'll lead to bendis not writing the Avengers any more, he's made a dogs dinner of new avengers for the last 2 years.

As to where it goes, I reckon it could be jumping off point for more events. Where the skrulls go your sure to find the Kree popping up then. And the Shiar bound to get involved too, especially with their human emperor Vulcan. Perhaps an "Annihilation: Marvel Universe" event next year?

AngryBadger

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Some people have to wait for their monthly shipment of comics as there isn't a comic shop within a reasonable distance so mind what your saying please, some people aren't as lucky as others.

Fair enough, I was speaking in jest but anyway...

AngryBadger

JangoFett wrote: »

Marvel WILL use it as a reboot point for characters. Why else would

beast be at his 2nd mutation when he appears? The Skrull would KNOW the level of mutation earths heroes are at!!!!

It reeks of reboot!!

I actually don't think they will. Marvel have put a huge amount of work into their "events" over the last few years, and they're trashing DC purely becasue they've regained credibility in the eyes of their fans.

If they use "Invasion" as a cheap reboot trick they'll lose all of that credibility. Plus I have to imagine Bendis would get physically sick just being in proximity to the idea of that kind of reboot.

Anyway, it would just be bad marketing.

AngryBadger

Fysh wrote: »

It would be absolutely cheap writing of an astonishing degree to use this as a reset switch

My point exactly.

Fysh wrote: »

Now, what has me curious is what it's going to build up to, because Marvel's recent Big Events have had varying impacts on the wider universe. House of M had that whole "no more mutants" thing, Disassembled split the Avengers into two groups, Civil War brought about registration and led to Cap getting shot, but World War Hulk ended with a bit of a cop-out and mostly minor changes.

Where do you think Secret Invasion is heading?

Could be the best way to bring all the heroes back under the one banner is to introduce an even bigger threat.

personally I'd love to see something like this ending as a kind of guerilla war set-up. Maybe the initial invasion is quelled, but there are sleeper cells all over the place. or hell why not just have all-out war going on for the next year or so after the "Invasion" mini.

I'd bet good money that "Invasion" will be used to close some of the rifts left after "Civil War".

JangoFett

That could be cool, this kinda has the feel of "THE big one" after their recent "big ones" storylines. Recent ones like the hulk did kinda cop out, even though Hulk having a son was a nice development, but begs the question, does he transform when pissed off as well? Like, is The Hulk's Sperm different to Banners'? These are the questions people are afraid to ask!!

What ever happened to the Venom Symbiote invasion? I read an issue of Avengers with it and then it seemed to fizzle out and The Secret Invasion kinda took over? I was a bit disappointed that the Symbiote Invasion wasn't made a bigger deal of

How do I grey out the text when talking about possible spoilers?

I'll try to be vague

The characters that appear in that spread in the badlands have ALL had changes in the recent years that have had mixed reactions amongst fans. It just looks like its cop out time for marvel AGAIN.

AGAIN I say?! The nerve! Look at Spidey, fixing his secret identity issue with magic. Biggest Cop-Out ever! Revealing his identity was the dumbest idea in the first place! I'm a DC boy but my love of Marvel is steadily growing, so I just don't want them to make a mistake here

I'm lookin forward to number 2 big time!

AngryBadger

JangoFett wrote: »

That could be cool, this kinda has the feel of "THE big one" after their recent "big ones" storylines. Recent ones like the hulk did kinda cop out, even though Hulk having a son was a nice development, but begs the question, does he transform when pissed off as well? Like, is The Hulk's Sperm different to Banners'? These are the questions people are afraid to ask!!

Bear in mind Hulks queen Caiera had some kind of mystical "old" power. Which is clearly going to be an element of their childs development. Also, I don't see any reason why the hulks sperm couldn't be different from Banners

JangoFett wrote: »

What ever happened to the Venom Symbiote invasion? I read an issue of Avengers with it and then it seemed to fizzle out and The Secret Invasion kinda took over? I was a bit disappointed that the Symbiote Invasion wasn't made a bigger deal of

If you're looking for symbiote madness then check out what Warren Ellis is doing with Venom in "Thunderbolts"

JangoFett wrote: »

The characters that appear in that spread in the badlands have ALL had changes in the recent years that have had mixed reactions amongst fans. It just looks like its cop out time for marvel AGAIN.

I take your point, but I think if Marvel went ahead with what we're talking about it would cost them HUGELY! I know I'd instantly drop a whole bunch of Marvel titles, purely because there's no way they could keep the same tone in the books if they just re-booted everything like that.

JangoFett wrote: »

AGAIN I say?! The nerve! Look at Spidey, fixing his secret identity issue with magic. Biggest Cop-Out ever! Revealing his identity was the dumbest idea in the first place! I'm a DC boy but my love of Marvel is steadily growing, so I just don't want them to make a mistake here

I didn't read that whole story. To be honest once JMS stopped writing Spidey I lost interest. He's fantastic in other titles, but in his own books there just seem to be so few writes who can do him justice.

Jonesy3110

Like, is The Hulk's Sperm different to Banners'? These are the questions people are afraid to ask!!

I laughed when I read that :P

What ever happened to the Venom Symbiote invasion?

Was that Mighty Avengers? It should have been a lot bigger than it was

The nerve! Look at Spidey, fixing his secret identity issue with magic. Biggest Cop-Out ever!

I second that, that ending made me pretty mad, and I'm not a big spidey fan. I felt like my intelligence was being insulted! How dare they :P

AngryBadger

Jonesy3110 wrote: »

I second that, that ending made me pretty mad, and I'm not a big spidey fan. I felt like my intelligence was being insulted! How dare they :P

Have you considered cutting them?

JangoFett

I've been checking out the Thunderbolts title, kinda. Mac Gargan as venom is pretty interesting but I dunno, its like they're not using Venom as much as they could be.

The teaser poster for The Venom Invasion was Wolverine being engulfed by a symbiote and then nothin happened! I love the Symbiotes!! And then marvel pulled out at the last minute!

SPOILERS!!!

Ok, so the scene in the badlands. Of all the characters that appear in the old costumes the one that worries me the most is Wolverine. They gave him his memory back and thats been a pretty gigantic character development.

So if the wolverine that got all the memories is a skrull and our buddy, Amnesiac Wolverine was on some Spaceship for Zod knows how long, he's gonna be all forgetful again. BUT, I would like to see the deserker rage Wolverine experiences when he sees that some dirty alien got HIS memories. He might actually rape the skrull. Seriously. Rape.

And with Cap there, well THAT would be more insulting than Spidey's miraculous identity solution. But I can see how they'd explain it. "The sniper knew that Captain America was a Skrull" But its still a cop out.

AngryBadger

JangoFett wrote: »

I've been checking out the Thunderbolts title, kinda. Mac Gargan as venom is pretty interesting but I dunno, its like they're not using Venom as much as they could be.

hmmmm have to say I disagree with ya there. I think Ellis take on Venom is incredibly refreshing, and to be fair, it's a team book.

JangoFett wrote: »

Ok, so the scene in the badlands. Of all the characters that appear in the old costumes the one that worries me the most is Wolverine. They gave him his memory back and thats been a pretty gigantic character development. So if the wolverine that got all the memories is a skrull and our buddy, Amnesiac Wolverine was on some Spaceship for Zod knows how long, he's gonna be all forgetful again. BUT, I would like to see the deserker rage Wolverine experiences when he sees that some dirty alien got HIS memories. He might actually rape the skrull. Seriously. Rape. And with Cap there, well THAT would be more insulting than Spidey's miraculous identity solution. But I can see how they'd explain it. "The sniper knew that Captain America was a Skrull" But its still a cop out.

This is exactly why I don't think that's what's gonna happen, given all the major developments of the last few years I think it would COMPLETELY destroy marvels credibility, and most definitely Bendis credibility as a writer if they did that.

JangoFett

Ok, I'll give the thunderbolts a proper looksee.

Yeah, its a good reason for it not to happen but its an obvious possibility.
Like, why would they be in old costumes etc? Skrulls would know what the heroes currently look like.

I know its a deliberate effort to get us asking these exact questions, but it could makes the skrulls out to be a bit retarded. And because its just one ship it adds to it. I quite like that they've done it but by god if they do what I've been saying they might do, it will be a neon train wreck all over again. I'd feel bad for all the full on Marvel fans! Hopefully there will be a touch of writing genius and a twist that'll leave ya dazed and possibly unconscious for several hours

JangoFett

I sit here with Secret Invasion 2 sitting on my desk, just read it and I gotta say, its good. Big confrontation after the showdown in the Badlands between the two groups and it doesn't so much answer the question of "Who are the real ones?" as leave you saying "****, who was THAT, which one WAS HE?!"

And a nice money shot of a very public skrull invasion with suped up power suit looking things based on the heroes costumes in the last 2 or 3 pages as well. So there's The Heroes, The Skrull Impersonators and now The Skrulls in the super-suits-based-on-the-heroes-powers....interesting

JangoFett

Alright, so the next issue of Secret Invasion will be on shelves soon

I have a few ideas about who's gonna be revealed as a Skrull, from all the doubles we saw in issue 1, and why

Spiderman - We saw one of the Spidey's was killed and revealed to be a skrull, but WHICH Spidey was killed? If the spidey we've seen for the last few years was a Skrull it gives marvel a good excuse to undo some bad decisions regarding the character. And they could say that Spidey unmasking was a Skrull plot to screw with Spidey

Scarlet Witch - In House of M Scarlett Witch did the whole no more mutants thing, well, Marvel could say that it was actually a magical Skrull attempting to weaken Earth defences by taking out so many mutants?

Wolverine - Imagine if a Skrull posing as wolverine got his memories instead of Wolverine getting them?! Imagine the beserker rage!

Captain America - The one who was killed could be a Skrull, maybe whoever knew he was a Skrull killed him because of that?

Iron Man - Ties in with my idea of Cap being a Skrull, these were the leaders of the opposing sides in Civil War, could have been two Skrulls trying to get the superhero community to tear each other apart

The others I'm not sure of...

Beast - This way his secondary mutation into the more feline appearance could be undone?

Just a few ideas anyway!

Jonesy3110

I have a few ideas about who's gonna be revealed as a Skrull, from all the doubles we saw in issue 1, and why

They all seem a bit too obvious I'd be a bit pissed if they just turned around and said "You know all that stuff we wrote recently that you absolutely hated? Well taa-daa!! All gone!"
Where's the integrity! They made some baaad decisions lately with certain characters *cough-spiderman-cough*, but they shouldn't just be able to wipe it all away. I'd feel like they had absolutely no respect for us readers at all, but then again, thats kinda what they do
I could live with maybe one major characters being revealed as skrulls, but I really hope that they don't go crazy with it.

I'm enjoying the series so far, but they better not screw it up!!

JangoFett

They do seem obvious alright but I still think thats why its very possible for my guesses to be right.

I think the one about Captain America could be on the money

Mighty Avengers 14 had some interesting stuff in it

The Sentry running away and BECOMING the void and then going back to earth and seemingly defending against the Skrulls

AngryBadger

So far they haven't done anything that supports the notion that we'll be seeing characters wiped/replaced with their "captured" skrull counterparts from the ship that crashed. The fact that a bunch of heroes in their "70's" gear poured out of the ship doesn't make them the real deal. We have one confirmed infiltrator amongst that group, (

I think it was hawkeye?

). The rest could well be Skrulls set up to cause even more chaos whilst engaging a large number of the most powerful heroes on the planet while their main strike force mixes it up with whoever's left in the major cities around the world.

So while I agree it would be completely **** for them to just "reset" a load of stuff, I'm still not convinced they really will.

JangoFett

I think I'm scared they will because of the whole "we won't fix Spiderman's identity being public with magic" and then they DID fix it with magic. There have been some bad decisions made recently.

I did however think that killing Cap and Bucky becoming the new Cap was a great move, but how long that will last I don't know

Yeah, it was the Hawkeye from the single ship that was killed and revealed to be a Skrull. But Ronin (aka, Clint Barton - Hawkeye) confronted Mockingbird and she was able to reveal to him that she had a misccariage which they kept secret suggesting she's the real deal...unless it wasa Skrull all along pretending to have a miscarriage

Can't wait for issue 3!!

Fysh

Vaguely on a tangent here, since I just noticed something:

You mention the "bad decisions" that have been made recently, and it's something I'm quite interested in from a fan perspective.

I don't read any ongoing monthly titles, because I decided some time back that I get too wound up at the limitations it imposes on storylines. I don't like the "jam tomorrow" school of storytelling, and I generally don't enjoy the payoffs of perpetually ongoing series enough to want to follow them.

I've heard the "bad decisions" listed to include some or all of the following:

• Iron Man & Reed being dicks in the Civil War
• Spiderman unmasking
• One More Day/Brand New Day
• The Republican & Liberal avengers
• World War Hulk (either the way it crossed over into some comics or the way it ended or both)

Now, given these decisions and the fact that, according to lots of fans, they fundamentally & negatively change a character that the fans liked reading about....

...what makes you keep reading? The discussion has been had all over the place but if all the people who hated One More Day/Brand New Day had actually stopped buying Spiderman comics, I'm pretty sure Marvel would be hit pretty hard in the pocket and have to do something about it.

This is, of course, extremely relevant, since the course of the Secret Invasion will no doubt give us more "Illuminati"-style instances of revelations of things that happened ages ago but were conveniently not recounted until now.

I'll leave you with a question - is Joe Q a Skrull?

JangoFett

HAHAHA, its very possible he's a Skrull!

I read and collect DC for the most part, I buy Marvel graphic novels, their big storylines like house of M, Covil War, World War Hulk...I keep reading because even though I consider these decisions to be bad I have faith that they'll write something better afterwards, that they'll recover.

I love comics as well, they're an important part of my life so I keep reading

Fysh

So I skimmed issue 3 of this while I was in the comic shop earlier today picking up the last couple of weeks issues and...it looks like Bendis has been watching the new series of Battlestar Galactica. Iron Man as a skin-job? *sigh* I can see the reasons for it though - they need to get rid of the Extremis thing since it's made him too powerful, and it provides an out for the whole Civil War/Initiative thing. Plus it fits the established pattern of Iron Man being the villain, whether knowingly or unwittingly, amongst the heroes. (Seriously, you'd think by this stage they'd have figured out not to trust *any* big idea of his, given how many times he's turned out to be under the control of Kang or what have you)

JangoFett

Skin Job? Whats that?

Fysh

Skin-job is the slang term in BSG for the new Cylons who look human but are actually Cylons. Kind of like the way terminators have human skin and flesh but are robots deep down. (There's a sequence in issue 3 where Iron Man is being told by someone that he'll be recognised as the most important soldier of the invading army because of what he achieved post-Civil War).

TickingOrange

Pretty sure that was a Red Herring and the Queen was just messing with him.

They have stated outside the comics that Iron Man in his own book and Steve Rogers (R.I.P.) were the real deal.

Agree about the BSG thing though. Its turning out to be not much better the last years Hulk event. Quite disappointing.

Fysh

Could be a red herring but on the other hand there was an interview with the guy taking over from the Knaufs on the Director of Shield comic where he shied away from answering the question of Stark being a Skrull by pointing out that there are now two possible Iron Men walking around. It would be nice to think that they won't just undo recent history in that cheap a way, but on the other hand there's the whole spiderman thing....