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Land ownership

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  • 07-05-2008 9:37am
    #1
    Minder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭


    I need some advice.

    I grew up in a small estate, cul-de-sac of thirty houses, there is an access road running around the back of 22 of the houses, concrete construction, drainage, lighting and footpaths. These concrete roads lead to blacktop carparks, and from that, the other 8 housesare served by a gravel lane; no footpath, inadequate drainage, no lighting. This has been the situation for 40 years, there has been little maintenance over the years, and the carparks have deteriorated badly.

    The land on which the estate was built, was (is) owned by the local Landlord. The local council are responsible for the maintanance and upkeep of the roads, (It's not a council estate, so I am not sure where their liability comes from.)

    There is a residents campaign to get the council to repair the roads and improve the gravel lanes; upgrade them to roads with drainage. The council will admit liability for the carparks and concrete roads, but state that the lanes are private property. They are proposing to renew the carparks but will not improve the lanes. Unless the residents accept this proposal, they council will do nothing. Take it, or leave it.

    The deeds to the properties served by the lanes do not identify the lanes as being included in the ownership of the houses - so not privately owned by the residents. There is a possibility that the local land owner still owns the lanes. Would he have a duty of care to maintain them?

    How do I start to establish ownership and therefore liability for these lanes? Land registry? Planning department of the local council?

    Any advice appreciated.


Comments

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    #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    engage a solicitor to do a land search on them......

    if the rear lanes are for private access rather than public thru-way, its unlikely the council will agree to upkeep them, i have seen this situation many times... even on council estates !!....

    sound like time to start up a dreaded management company.....


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    #3
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 46,091 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Im not even sure if its the right place or not but I'm moving this over to the accommodation & property forum.


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    #4
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    It sounds like there is a legal easement in place, which gives a defacto right-of-way to the properties.
    Unless a council "takes-in-charge" an estate, they have very few obligations towards any inhabitants there (those obligations that they do have would normally relate primarily to water supply and sewage facilities).

    As per above- you do really need to contact a solicitor who specialises in property law, and get the title deeds researched and advice re: where exactly you stand on this issue.

    Personally I would be quite surprised if the council had any obligation towards the upkeep of the lanes/roads, if it is private property, and would think you as a community will probably have to jointly pay towards there upkeep (I am open to correction on this).

    Shane


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    #5
    Minder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭Minder


    Thanks for the responses. The lanes are not a through road. They are the only right of way/access to the properties they serve. Refuse collection, vehicular access, emergency services access - the lanes are the only access road for these properties.

    The council cannot determine ownership and therefore liability for the lanes. The town Engineer first rejected the arguments, stating that the lanes were too narrow - in fact the lanes are wider than the concrete road around the rest of the estate.

    Shane - the council have already accepted liability for the renewal of the carparks. I am unsure on what basis they are liable - appointed as management company by the landlord? I don't know. But if they are liable for some of the roads - we are looking for an opportunity to demonstrate that they are liable for all the roads.

    Just for reference, this is my parents property, I don't live there.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    if the rear lanes are for private access rather than public thru-way, its unlikely the council will agree to upkeep them, i have seen this situation many times... even on council estates !!....

    I take your point, but the estate is built with all the houses facing a large green space in the centre of the estate. There is a road running around the back of the properties - but it doesn't join up - so it looks a bit like a horseshoe in plan. As it is not a through road, it is for access only to each property. So depending on where you live in the estate, you have a smart, functional concrete road, or a scruffy gravel potholed track. One maintained by the council, the other apparently not.


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