Quality of kit issued

Hagar

With reference to this thread about buying boots.

Does anyone else feel it's wrong that our troops are not being supplied with the best equipment available?

I don't expect every soldier to have a gold plated Desert Eagle or anything stupid like that, but are top quality boots too much to expect?

Out of interest what other items to people routinely buy because the issued item kit isn't good enough?

Lockstep

I'm surprised. When I joined, everyone was singing the praises of the Magnums.

I have to admit, I love them so far. Extremely comfy and nice to wear.

Just wish they were waterproof.


Although admittedly it baffles me RE the DPM gear.
Ireland just doesn't have that many forests. Surely a bog coloured tunic would be more appropriate.

A friend of mine had a dad in the army and his gear looks amazing. He still has it and it looks fecking cool, greatcoats, khaki shirts etc.

NoQuarter

i thought the kit was great, magnums were fine for walkin/running around the barracks etc but the HAIX were simply great for on the ground, once or twice i was knee deep in water and somehow the water didnt get into the boots!!! the ankle support was the business and i've fallen over every mountain in wicklow. i think the boots we get issued are good quality!

The only real problem i have with the aarmy gear is the overseas travel bags! why oh why do they hang upside down if you use the long strap?!?!?!?!? :p

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hagar wrote: »

With reference to this thread about buying boots.

Does anyone else feel it's wrong that our troops are not being supplied with the best equipment available?

I don't expect every soldier to have a gold plated Desert Eagle or anything stupid like that, but are top quality boots too much to expect?

Out of interest what other items to people routinely buy because the issued item kit isn't good enough?

I think mostly its good, including the boots now on issue.

Tbh, I've done 23yrs now without the need to buy gucci gear. Although when I'm going on the ground, or oversea's I'll look at things I might need to make myself that little bit more comfortable.

I think Liberia showed a big flaw in our level of equipement when lads had to go and buy their own sleeping systems and one man tents from camping stores.

I feel a bigger concern is our lack of proper vehicles for serving oversea's. ie - the Nissan Patrol's. They should be replaced as a matter of urgency. Their the main stay of our transport oversea's and offer absolutely no ballistic protection what so ever.

Basically the Nissan Patrol is a civilian vehicle press ganged into military service, but we'll wait until there's someone's blown to bits in one before considering replacing it with something a little more appropriate.

minidazzler

As has been said, Magnums are great for around the Barracks and even on a Range but other than that I wouldnt wear them on Tactics

Haix are issued to me and I find them extremely comfortable and perfect for tactics due to the ankle support and Water proof. They may be alot heavier than Magnums but I didnt get a Bad time running up hill in them last night.

Anyway, Yeah the personal Kit is grand and does its Job. As Mairt says the Nissans are a Bollix. You cant sit in them with CEFO or CEMO and with No Ballistic protection they are more of a Health Hazard than anything else.

Borneo Fnctn

I'm not PDF but I'm getting a serious pain in my hole with the following;

1. No raingear. We live in a fairly wet country. I don't consider it to be gucci gear. It really is essential.

2. No personal hearing protection. Peltors are supposed to be on personal issue. In reality, they are not.

3. 58 pattern webbing is still on issue. Enough said.

4. Even the gear you are entitled to is not easy to get. I often see recruits getting screwed with their initial issue.


These problems don't exist in the PDF (and rightly so).

Lockstep

What exactly is gucci gear?

I'm guessing it's showy or impracticle gear?

arybvtcw0eolkf

jackpalance wrote: »

I'm not PDF but I'm getting a serious pain in my hole with the following;

1. No raingear. We live in a fairly wet country. I don't consider it to be gucci gear. It really is essential.

2. No personal hearing protection. Peltors are supposed to be on personal issue. In reality, they are not.

3. 58 pattern webbing is still on issue. Enough said.

4. Even the gear you are entitled to is not easy to get. I often see recruits getting screwed with their initial issue.


These problems don't exist in the PDF (and rightly so).

I never knew that was the situation in the RDF in relation to personal issue, thats a pretty poor show alright.

I'm not giving advice here, but!.. If I was in the RDF and a member of the PDF told me to submit an application to my CO to be issued with this equipment, pointing out the health and safety implications of not being issued with rain gear and proper hearing protection - well I'd listen to that PDF member!.

PM me for a chat if you wish.

Oh, contact your RDF representative too.

arybvtcw0eolkf

kickoutthejams wrote: »

What exactly is gucci gear?

I'm guessing it's showy or impracticle gear?

"Gucci gear" is 'designer' kit not on issue.

minidazzler

To jackpalance

The Raingear, Very bad show I know. IT should be on Personal issue, but, from what I have heard it is fairly expensive so you would get those asswipes who dont sho up after they get it and just keep it. I think it should not be pooled and should be personal issue but always left in the Barracks until required.

The Peltors. Aquire some the next time you are at the range.

58 Pattern is just Bad tac. Should not still be used after 50 years.

Initial Issue. Major problem in some areas less in others. But for Recruit Camp I feel it is OK to just give the Basics. (ie The Main Uniform with 2 of everything.) because alot of people just stop coming up after Recruit camp. After Recruit training the rest should be given to the people who stick with it.

Borneo Fnctn

minidazzler wrote: »

To jackpalance


The Peltors. Aquire some the next time you are at the range.


Initial Issue. Major problem in some areas less in others. But for Recruit Camp I feel it is OK to just give the Basics. (ie The Main Uniform with 2 of everything.) because alot of people just stop coming up after Recruit camp. After Recruit training the rest should be given to the people who stick with it.

I'm not going to rob a set of peltors.

As for the initial issue, you should be issued everything on the scale of issue. There should be no exceptions. People will stop showing up alright, but you might retain more bodies if things were done professionally. Shafting a recruit on his initial issue doesn't give him much of an incentive to continue parading.

minidazzler

In fairness, its not really Robbing.

1. You are supposed to be issued them.
2. You will continue to use them and when you go to the Ranges they wont be down a set because you have yours.


And it is safer because

1. If they are in good nick when you acquire then then chances are they will be better taken care of that being thrown in the end of a box until the next range day. (By this time they could get cracked or ripped.
2. You are garunteed a pair at the Ranges.


I still feel recruits dont actually need all that is on the SoI to be issued before recruit camp. and while the current situation whereby We dont get the full and correct Scale of Issue is not Ideal for 2/3* and up it works for recruits as they do not need everything that is on the scale of issue yet.

Beret 6G
Badges, Cap No 21A
Belt No. 26A Waist
Boots, Barrack Light Operational
Ear Defender
Ear Defender Peltor
Shirt, DPM X2
Shirt, Norwegian
Smock, DPM
Trousers, DPM X2
T-Shirt X3
Socks X3
Poncho (Pool issued, To be returned.)
Webbing (Pool issued, If stated as Required, To be returned)

This is what I feel should be issued to RDF recruits going to camp.

I had slightly more kit because I supplemented the T-shirts with my own ones. (12 of them) From a Company I work for.
and Socks 30 pairs because you can never have enough socks!!!!
And I had an extra shirt from an uncle which I used once Didnt even need it!

arybvtcw0eolkf

minidazzler wrote: »

and Socks 30 pairs because you can never have enough socks!!!!
!

LOL, what are you - a soldier or a bleed'n caterpillar!

cushtac

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, its not really Robbing.

1. You are supposed to be issued them.
2. You will continue to use them and when you go to the Ranges they wont be down a set because you have yours.

In what way is that not theft? You're taking something that wasn't issued to you & doesn't belong to you. There's plenty of stuff you're meant to be issued with, but the fact that you didn't get the stuff doesn't give you the right to steal it.

NoQuarter

cushtac wrote: »

In what way is that not theft? You're taking something that wasn't issued to you & doesn't belong to you. There's plenty of stuff you're meant to be issued with, but the fact that you didn't get the stuff doesn't give you the right to steal it.

haha you lot wont go far in the army at all!! Lads common army mentality is if ya see something shiney and theres nobody within 6 feet, its yours!!

I think its even in the DFR's!

cushtac

king-stew wrote: »

haha you lot wont go far in the army at all!! Lads common army mentality is if ya see something shiney and theres nobody within 6 feet, its yours!!

I was in the FCA long enough to know what goes on, but call a spade a spade - it's theft.

NoQuarter

yeah but its the good kind of theft! like how white lies are good!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Guys before anyone goes getting their knickers in a twist there's a lot of 'tongue in cheek' comments going around about 'acquiring' gear.

Anyone who's served time in the army will tell you, if its not nailed down or if there's no army number on it - its worth relocating it to a safer place

There's a big difference in that and stealing someone's personal issue.

minidazzler

Thanks Mairt. Thatrs what I am trying to say. It doesnt belong to anyone the stuff I will take if I need it. I wouldnt dream of Robbing someone. But when you take something from the DF that you are supposed to be issued and you use it in the course of your Duty then it is just "Borrowing" and keeping safe until you need it.

cushtac

minidazzler wrote: »

Thanks Mairt. Thatrs what I am trying to say. It doesnt belong to anyone the stuff I will take if I need it.

It belongs to the state.

minidazzler wrote: »

But when you take something from the DF that you are supposed to be issued and you use it in the course of your Duty then it is just "Borrowing" and keeping safe until you need it.

Borrowing implies you've gotten permission to take it & you're giving it back, otherwise it's theft.

minidazzler

In fairness, you may do what you wish. I got pro-active about not being given full kit so I took my own peltors strictly for use on the Ranges with the RDF. I did write my name, Number and Unit on them and No one has a problem so I am not planning to go to my BS and say I must be written up for "stealing" DF equiptment that I should have officially been issued.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cushtac wrote: »

It belongs to the state.



.

You kit will always belong to the state, its NEVER your's to keep.

bagels

cushtac wrote: »

I was in the FCA long enough to know what goes on, but call a spade a spade - it's theft.

the defence forces have a duty of care in regard to you, which is frequently flaunted;
you also have a duty of care to yourself;
that means protecting your hearing, in accordance with health and safety regulations;
it also means you should only use equipment that conforms to good hygiene practices;
if you acquire an infection from wearing used unhygienic ear muffs handed to you on the ranges, then you yourself are negligent;
if your hearing is damaged from wearing used damaged ear muffs handed to you on the range, then you yourself are negligent;
having served as a reservist since 1976, i would advise you to either:
(a) request to be issued with your entitlement;
(b) or kick up a stink to be given your own personal issue (and subsequently
be branded as a bad egg);
(c) or save yourself an awful lot of hassle and future trouble (as per (b)
above) and simply acquire ear muffs the next time an opportunity
arises.
in the event of you ever subsequently being issued your own set, you can then return the 'acquired' ones;
in the meantime, you have an obligation to yourself so do as you deem proper.

murph226

Hi lads, very surprised about the lack of hearing protection.

Its not just the Rdf that get shafted when it comes to kit,
I'm in the Naval Service and I can tell you the stores down there is a joke.

People have trouble just trying to get their hands on everyday working dress.

The stores are constantly empty.

Its like they think that the demand for clothing is going to magically disappear, it really is a joke.

One time we were at the ranges in Galway, I was talking to the Duty Driver about the lack of kit, and he informed me that the Rdf gets so much gear out of their stores that the Pdf lads have trouble getting stuff.

I know the lack of kit is frustrating, especially safety items but I've been in the Rdf myself, and must say its come on leaps and bounds in the last ten years.

What annoys me the most are the people who join up and Get the kit and stop going after a few weeks, and next thing they're wearing the issue Dpm Smock around town as a rain jacket.

Should be something done to tackle this.

the GALL

Mairt wrote: »

LOL, what are you - a soldier or a bleed'n caterpillar!

good one mairt
good one

Manic Moran

"Steal" is really an acronym. "Supplies Taken in Excess of Authorised List"

A little re-distribution of assets for military purposes with limited administrative supporting documentation is pretty much par for the course in any army. It's almost expected. The cut-off point I've seen is where it's done for personal gain, and not for the benefit of the military organisation.

NTM

minidazzler

Manic Moran wrote: »

"Steal" is really an acronym. "Supplies Taken in Excess of Authorised List"

A little re-distribution of assets for military purposes with limited administrative supporting documentation is pretty much par for the course in any army. It's almost expected. The cut-off point I've seen is where it's done for personal gain, and not for the benefit of the military organisation.

NTM

I agree, I mean how many times have we been at ranges where just as we are about to shoot the Check Hearing Order is given and someone puts up there hand and says, "Sir, I don't have any Peltors" Its happened a few times in my unit. And it is really annoying!!!

It is more efficient to Acquire the Peltors or whatever other kit that is NEEDED and speed up processes!!!!!!

RFHazard

minidazzler wrote: »

I agree, I mean how many times have we been at ranges where just as we are about to shoot the Check Hearing Order is given and someone puts up there hand and says, "Sir, I don't have any Peltors" Its happened a few times in my unit. And it is really annoying!!!

It is more efficient to Acquire the Peltors or whatever other kit that is NEEDED and speed up processes!!!!!!

Bollocks, bollocks, and more bollocks. You've been down this line of argument before and it still doesn't add up. RDF units have a pool of hearing protection and they are there for everybody's use. When some idiot gets as far as a firing point without hearing protection it is because some other idiot, who thinks that he's a bit special and more deserving, had stolen them.

Don't take that which does not belong to you. Don't put your own selfish individual desires over the needs of your fellow reservists.

SIRREX

The army needs to have a professional attitude to personal kit, and in professional armies world wide the attitude to item relocation is "oh, shiny, I'll have that".
Can't beat the five finger discount!

miss no stars

RFHazard wrote: »

Bollocks, bollocks, and more bollocks. You've been down this line of argument before and it still doesn't add up. RDF units have a pool of hearing protection and they are there for everybody's use.

To use your own phrasing: Bollocks, bollocks, and more bollocks. GO check the scale of issue:

http://www.rdfra.ie/Misc/scale.shtml
See 18 items down on the PERSONAL scale of issue it says, and I quote

Scale of ISSUE wrote:

Ear Defenders, Peltor (c)

There should not be a pool of ear defenders for everyone to use. It is on PERSONAL ISSUE. However, you may find that they are kept in stores as they are soft ordnance but you should receive the same pair of peltors every time you require them.

Here's a hint folks, if you sign your number down when being handed a pair, you've signed for them and they're yours. Put your name and number on them in permenant marker and let that be the last of it. If they were signed out on a voucher you can be ordered to return them. If this happens hand them back and immediately afterwards ask to be issued a personal set. If your QM refuses, take it higher. Health and safety is a scary phrase folks, one that rocks the boat enough to be issued what you require.

steyr fan

Recently, while being issued kit & clothing for Integrated Training, I passed the remark in the clothing stores that I have my own peltors anyway, and as there was a shortage of peltors in the stores, I said that I would use my own and not bother with the issued set, which was just as well, cause they DID run out of them.

You should have heard the rollicking I got from our QM over having a set of peltors. "You're not supposed to have them" "You'll have to return them" "It's no wonder we don't have peltors for everybody with arseholes like you just taking yer own" "bladebladebla".

Well then you should have seen his face and body movements when I told him about eBay, and how you could buy practically anything on eBay, yes even peltors. I told him how I was pi**ed off at every time goin on the range or ground, how he or his fellow QM's (all Cadre) whinged & whinned when asked for peltors. I told him that it was little people like this that contribute towards the difficulties within the organisation.

He was not a happy bunny let me tell you.

Bit ut felt good. And still does.

the GALL

the days of the gods (cadre) are numbered. Your asked to do a job and your hands are tied.

christophicus

Surely you would have been punished somehow for standing up to him like that ??

miss no stars

Explain why he should have been punished for pointing out that the CQ should not have been throwing around accusations of retaining gear that wasn't his to have, especially as the item in question was a private purchase? You don't think people stand there like meek little mice and accept undue punishment and say nothing if a situation can be clarified?