Irish group 'Parc' wants GTA IV banned

masseyno9

A copy of the e-mail i just sent to the parc crowd. Maybe i got a bit rough at the end, but sure its how i feel.

Dear Ms. Gray,

I recently read about your organisations wishes to ban the new Grand Theft Auto game. This is apparently based on the fact that the player can control a character and instruct him to drive while drunk. Granted, this is not a message to be sent to impressionable youths, but the game has an 18s certificate attachedd to it, and is being sold only to people over 18 years old. Granted, certain under-18s are getting their hands on it, but that is always bound to happen (with games, films, cigarettes, whatever).

The fact of the matter is that the game is entirely fictitious, and everyone who plays it knows this. Its not broadcast on RTE at 3:00pm every tuesday to be seen by all, it is to be enjoyed by responsible people in the comfort of their own home. Other activities in the game include killing gang members and drug dealers, fleeing from police, riding motorbikes down railroad tracks whilst shooting at enemies, and recovering stolen drugs and money. Also, if you do kill the pixelated people in the game, you can drive off half a mile down the orad, and the police seemingly forget about it. If your character is arrested, he is immediately let out again. If he is killed, he re-appears outside a hospital, complete with every weapon he owned. Now, to me, if people are going to copy what is seen in this game, drink-driving is the least of our problems.

Another point that is relevant is that you do not have to drive drunk in the game, you can take a taxi or walk. I am a 21 year old male and I drive. I also drink, but never ever at the same time. I take a taxi or walk. Just because I enjoy this game I'm not going to go drink-driving. People know the difference between reality and fantasy. Similarly, I'm not going join a gang and hunt down rival members.

I can kind of see your point of view, as drink-driving is more tangible to Irish people than the gangland violence depicted in the game, but give people credit, they're not idiots.

As a conclusion, I believe your cause is a legitimate one, but this stinks of a publicity stunt. I know about the difficulties of getting recognition for organisations (being involved in minority sports) but there are much better ways to put your organisation in the public eye. Perhaps a statement about how pleased the prganisation at the drop in road death figures were over the recent bank holiday weekend, and a congratulations to the gardai that their increased presence contributed to this may have had better results. Having said this, I wish you and your orginsation the best of luck in your endeavours, but I fear your name may have already been tarnished with the very people I imagine you want to get your point across to. Assuming young people are your main target audience, a lot of them will now see your organisation as condascending (talking to them like they don't know the difference between a game and real life) and out of touch, and as such, may disregard any publications or pleas for assisrance. I look forward to seeing more positive and realistic publicity from your organisation in the future.

Yours Faithfully,

Mr E

Well said, and well argued. I think it will fall on deaf ears, though.....

A spell check wouldn't have hurt (but thats the picky side of me).

krudler

out of touch organisation in jump on the bandwagon pr stunt shocker!

corcaigh07

well done massey, itll probably fall on deaf ears though. she even said it herself that she has no intention of seeing or playing the game because she thinks its disgusting, horrific, etc etc. i think ill send her an e-mail too, she deserves to be told otherwise.

corcaigh07

and lads, if your sending any e-mails, send them all to Susan Gray, she was the blinkered idiot speaking on today fm today.

Nailz

She'll be hearing a word from Al Pacino & Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Y2J_MUFC

Waaa, waaa, waaa.

Somebody needs to tell that group that we're Irish, not American. We can distinguish games from reality, thank you very much. How does it glorify drunk driving? The cops nail you straight away. Pubilicity stunt.

corcaigh07

was i too hard? hopefully she'll at least read it.


Dear Susan,

Just writing to say how appalled I was to hear your uneducated ramblings on National Radio today. I was absolutely amazed to hear you criticising a game you have never played or seen in action. I was also highly disappointed to hear that you had no facts of any kind to back up any of your arguments i.e. the survey results to say a child behaves differently after experiencing a video game. You were very lucky Matt Cooper wasn’t in his usual caustic self.

This game does indeed feature drink drinking but it is not forced upon the person playing the game. Indeed, the player doesn’t have to drink at all. If the player decides to drink drive (But only after warnings by the game itself and the character, Niko, you play as), it’s not the least bit glorified. In fact, its very difficult and disorientating, much like real-life I imagine. Many people have commented to me that they have only ever tried drink-driving once in the game because it was so difficult and unnecessary. Hardly glorifying drink-driving now is it?

And as for your argument that young kids are playing this game doesn’t hold up at all. This game is rated for persons aged 18 and over by the IFCO just like any other game or movie. If there was any issues the IFCO thought were unsuitable, the game would have been banned and they have banned games and movies before. Yes, there will be a minority of underage people that will get their hands on this game but we have this problem for underage drinking, smoking, movies, driving etc and I’m finding that the game stores are very responsible when it comes to checking for ID when a person tries to purchase this game, more so than the cinemas and DVD stores in my humble opinion.

It may surprise you that this game has already sold 9 million copies and counting hence the calls for banning this game are ludicrous, not to mention that even if you were successful in your request, the game would still be easily obtainable through via the internet and other international sources. If you think your small petty limelight seeking campaign is going to overcome this game, you are deeply mistaken. If this game was as horrific as you suggest, then this world is not in good shape.

I’m an avid gamer, driver and indeed drinker! However, I have never drove a car under the influence, never shot a gun (however many I have shot in Games). Just because I see some horrible things in movies or to a lesser extent, games, doesn’t mean I’ll do them in real-life.

I dearly hope you change your methods of seeking positive PR as this is a Cul-De-Sac on your part. Your attitude against drink driving is an admirable one and it is unfortunately still a scourge on Irish roads. There are other ways of doing this. Commending the Gardai on an excellent job this May bank Holiday would be a start. Educating the drivers of the future in Secondary Schools would be another. I sincerely hope you find these better methods before you lose respect amongst the public. I admit I never heard of PARC before today but I really do hope you can make a difference.

Looking forward to your response,
Dominic Manning

Y2J_MUFC

corcaigh07 wrote: »

was i too hard? hopefully she'll at least read it.


Dear Susan,

Just writing to say how appalled I was to hear your uneducated ramblings on National Radio today. I was absolutely amazed to hear you criticising a game you have never played or seen in action. I was also highly disappointed to hear that you had no facts of any kind to back up any of your arguments i.e. the survey results to say a child behaves differently after experiencing a video game. You were very lucky Matt Cooper wasn’t in his usual caustic self.

This game does indeed feature drink drinking but it is not forced upon the person playing the game. Indeed, the player doesn’t have to drink at all. If the player decides to drink drive (But only after warnings by the game itself and the character, Niko, you play as), it’s not the least bit glorified. In fact, its very difficult and disorientating, much like real-life I imagine. Many people have commented to me that they have only ever tried drink-driving once in the game because it was so difficult and unnecessary. Hardly glorifying drink-driving now is it?

And as for your argument that young kids are playing this game doesn’t hold up at all. This game is rated for persons aged 18 and over by the IFCO just like any other game or movie. If there was any issues the IFCO thought were unsuitable, the game would have been banned and they have banned games and movies before. Yes, there will be a minority of underage people that will get their hands on this game but we have this problem for underage drinking, smoking, movies, driving etc and I’m finding that the game stores are very responsible when it comes to checking for ID when a person tries to purchase this game, more so than the cinemas and DVD stores in my humble opinion.

It may surprise you that this game has already sold 9 million copies and counting hence the calls for banning this game are ludicrous, not to mention that even if you were successful in your request, the game would still be easily obtainable through via the internet and other international sources. If you think your small petty limelight seeking campaign is going to overcome this game, you are deeply mistaken. If this game was as horrific as you suggest, then this world is not in good shape.

I’m an avid gamer, driver and indeed drinker! However, I have never drove a car under the influence, never shot a gun (however many I have shot in Games). Just because I see some horrible things in movies or to a lesser extent, games, doesn’t mean I’ll do them in real-life.

I dearly hope you change your methods of seeking positive PR as this is a Cul-De-Sac on your part. Your attitude against drink driving is an admirable one and it is unfortunately still a scourge on Irish roads. There are other ways of doing this. Commending the Gardai on an excellent job this May bank Holiday would be a start. Educating the drivers of the future in Secondary Schools would be another. I sincerely hope you find these better methods before you lose respect amongst the public. I admit I never heard of PARC before today but I really do hope you can make a difference.

Looking forward to your response,
Dominic Manning

Solid argument. Your points are well made...

Although admitting you never heard of them may make them think that their stunt has worked.

Mr E

Well said, Dominic.

Dord

Well said guys!

blaze1

well said on the emails folks, I was tempted but started slurring my words after booting it back from the pub in my stolen turismo,

Nailz

Apparently this Susan one "just cost me $6,000"!

mehfesto2

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Solid argument. Your points are well made...

Although admitting you never heard of them may make them think that their stunt has worked.

Yeah, but I think the fact that all of us within their imaginable target-audience think they're sensationalist, out-of-touch, attention-seeking time-wasters kind of ruins that stunt.

If anything they've only really found target with parents who too haven't experienced the game in any true sense and need further sensationalist "proof" to stop their children playing it. They should need only be deferred by the 18's rating, not what the general media is saying.

Y2J_MUFC

mehfesto2 wrote: »

Yeah, but I think the fact that all of us within their imaginable target-audience think they're sensationalist, out-of-touch, attention-seeking time-wasters kind of ruins that stunt.

If anything they've only really found target with parents who too haven't experienced the game in any true sense and need further sensationalist "proof" to stop their children playing it. They should need only be deferred by the 18's rating, not what the general media is saying.

This is true, but probably a lot of people might think... "OK, they are looking for headlines about GTA, but their overall cause is a good one"...and would probably work out better in the long run than people not knowing who they are at all...

DarkJager

Just sent one guys, felt I had to say something to this ill informed idiot. Harsh or not I hope she reads it:

Dear Susan,

Today is the first time I have heard of your organisation PARC, and hope it is also the last. It is obvious that for every message you preach about road safety, there is also a side which seeks publicity even in its lowest gutter form. Your appearance today on The Last Word, made me nearly want to throw my car stereo out the window. You are severely misguided if you possibly think you can comment on something it is blindingly obvious you know absolutely nothing about. I am of course talking about the new Grand Theft Auto game.

While I appreciate your main goal is to reduce the carnage on Irish Roads, it is obvious you feel the need to piggyback publicity from this game. Yes, it may be controversial, and yes it may include drink driving, but at the end of the day this is a VIDEO GAME. A video game with an 18's rating which means it is fit for adults only. Granted some people under that age may play it, but I can safely say the vast majority of us can distinguish reality from virtual reality. You on the other hand, obviously cannot.

The game itself does not encourage or glorify drink driving in anyway. There are no instructions in the manual, and even when the player attempts to drink drive, he is warned against it. In game, drink driving also warrants a swift and heavy response from the police. How could anybody possibly get the idea to drink drive from this, when it is one tiny insignificant part of the game?? There are no rewards for it, no cash given for doing it and nothing at all to gain from it.

When I heard you describe the game as "horrific", even though you have not even laid eyes on it or played it, that was the end of your arguement. You cannot possibly argue about something you have no knowledge about, and tugging at the heart strings of the nation just made you sound more desperate to get in the limelight. There are too many ill informed people in this world, who will just jump on the chance to slate something just because it dares to push boundaries. If its an informed and valid opinion, then it is worth listening to. Your arguement was neither. For people like that, I have absolutely no respect whatsoever, no matter what other messages they may try to preach.

In future, may I recommend PARC hire an actual PR representative if they want to comment on something like this. Publicly broadcasting your opinion is usually best left to professionals. If your intention was to alienate the youth of Ireland from your cause, then I must congratulate you because you have succeeded on so many levels. To summarise the situation Susan: EPIC FAIL.

Yours truly,

John X

corcaigh07

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Solid argument. Your points are well made...

Although admitting you never heard of them may make them think that their stunt has worked.

i fully agree, their stunt has taught me who they are but you can't change first impressions, shame on PARC, itll take a lot for me and many others to take them seriously on anything else.

Cunny-Funt

As I said in a similar thread:

God I really can't believe how stupid people can be. The usual take a line from the game and it gets taken totally out of context by non gamers.

The game lets you drive cars, and has an effect that makes things blurry and controls funny when you drink.

This kinda stuff as been around for years.

I remember it in Deus Ex. I also remember in that game if you wanted you could attack NPCs =

BAN THE GAME DEUS EX because it lets you get drunk and beat up women on the street!

Feckin eejits, thats all I have to say...

Nailz wrote: »

She'll be hearing a word from Al Pacino & Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Nailz wrote: »

Apparently this Susan one "just cost me $6,000"!

Recordings or it didn't happen.

corcaigh07

a bit on the harsh side alright but im not sure if i can comment after my attack. its hard to resist getting angry at such an opportunisic, blatant attack on something she never has even seen.

Y2J_MUFC

DarkJager wrote: »

To summarise the situation Susan: EPIC FAIL.

That last line gave me a good laugh!!! A bit on the harsh side overall though

KoKane

Fair play to the lads emailing !

Be sure to post any replies you may get, I'd be very very interested in reading them.

corcaigh07

certainly will.

masseyno9

Well lads, no reply as of yet and I'm going to be without internet access for 2 days unfortunately.

Nice e-mails corcaigh and darkjager, I had to try really hard to not be that harsh!!

As for the spell-check, I had a feeling there were a few but I was late for training already so just clicked send!

mehfesto

Just listening to Spin 103.8 talk show on the topic and they're saying that Susan had lost a family member to drink driving and this is the reason she's taking such a forward role in the actions against this game.
Make of that what you will.

Just for the sake of arguement, nobody has argued yet that it only takes one nutcase to play the game and be influenced by it for it to have an affect on the public - in a roundabout way.

Helix

a game wont make someone drink drive, the same way games dont make people kill people

if that was the case thered have been no drink driving or murder prior to the 1980s

DarkJager

mehfesto wrote: »

Just listening to Spin 103.8 talk show on the topic and they're saying that Susan had lost a family member to drink driving and this is the reason she's taking such a forward role in the actions against this game.
Make of that what you will.

Just for the sake of arguement, nobody has argued yet that it only takes one nutcase to play the game and be influenced by it for it to have an affect on the public - in a roundabout way.

That is no excuse for jumping on a game she knows nothing about. So a member of her family died from drink driving and she can suddenly draw comparisons to GTA??? I'm sorry but fcuk off....

mehfesto

Was just adding to the conversation, there. Easy!
I didnt say I agreed, I just stated it as fact.

DarkJager

I wasn't attacking you mehfesto! Sorry if it seemed that way . I'm just pissed off that this obviously clueless woman is harping on about something she knows fcuk all about, and then tries to back up her cause by linking it to the death of a relative from drink driving. This is just a desperate attempt to garner support. I hope this PARC group disapear and are never heard of again. They are patethic.

faceman

me thinks that this is just like that movie in Fr ted with the protesting. Free publicity for rockstar.

Ive gotten drunk in the game twice. Once to see what happens and to driver afterward. (I was surprised at how much dialogue Roman spouted about how not to do it) The second time i did it i used as an excuse to get a taxi and gets some some gamerscore.

Needless to say i wont be doing it again. It was an utterly pointless activity. You are more likely to be arrested than shot by the cops (because you are falling all over the place instead of running away) thus losing all your weapons which is bad.

Im not sure what affect GTA has had on real drunk driving in ireland since its launch, im sure no statistics will be available.

What worries me most is that the most common and fun element of GTA is fighting with the cops and trying to escape yet no one seems to want to complain about that!

nealmac

If games have that much of an impact on real life, why is there a serious lack of plumbers?