Question for the girls

stevoman

Feminism!!! A touchy subject these days. but it doesnt seem to exsist in the crazy forms here that it does in america and other large nations.

What i want to know from you Irish girls is do you think feminism is the way forward, or are these ladies just plain nuts? Do you think that the feminist movement these days does more harm then good to the reputations of all you ladies in modern life?

http://www.feminist.com/

Above is just a random feminist site

Spud83

There are no wommen on the internet so asking this here is rather pointless.

stevoman

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

There are no wommen on the internet so asking this here is rather pointless.

**agrees as he clicks on the next adult site***

LaVidaLoca

" these ladies just plain nuts"

Well, pretty much ALL women are feminist to some degree these days. And a good thing too. So I dont know who you're asking the question of.

Any woman who isnt at least nominally feminist nowadays is probably too old to read this website herself.

Dragan

The subject you are asking about means a million different things to a million different people, without some kind of context this thread = fail.

FruitLover

I think the word 'feminism' has chauvinistic connotations. I'm all for 'equalism' though.

Duggy747

Ah, it's always a catch 22 situation.

When I hit a woman I get in trouble with them. Yet they give out to me because they want the same rights as us men and be treated like us. Thus when I hit a woman, I hit her as hard as I would a man. Tis confusing I'll tells ya!

Dragan

FruitLover wrote: »

I think the word 'feminism' has chauvinistic connotations. I'm all for 'equalism' though.

Thats right up there with holding the door perpetuating the stereotype in my mind.

It's just a word.

biko

When women get equal pay for work and boys manage to wash their own clothes at 15, that's when feminism can relax :rolleyes:
Btw, like the new rolleyes

2006
Following a battle lasting almost two years, National Union of Journalists UK and Ireland (NUJ) member Ciara O’Brien has won a major victory in the Irish Equality Tribunal. The NUJ took a claim for equal pay against Dublin-based publishing company Computerscope Ltd., which published technology titles PC Live, Computerscope and Smart Company.

In a decision released on September 19, the Equality Officer found that Ciara was discriminated against on the grounds of gender and age and was victimised for exercising her rights under the Act. Publishing magnate Frank Quinn was ordered to pay the complainant equal pay for a period of almost two years in addition to €5,000 for the effects of discrimination. He was also ordered to pay €10,000 in compensation for the effects of victimisation following pressure being put on Ciara to drop the case.

The Equality Officer found that there was no objective justification for the difference in pay and that the company failed to rebut the NUJ’s claim of discrimination on the gender and age ground.

Rob_l

damn Apple eaters should never have equality

stevenmu

Irish women have always been in charge. For Irish women "feminism" means not only ruling half of our lives, but also taking over places like offices and golf clubs where we've traditionally been able to take a bit of a break from them.

Being serious, traditionally Irish women have been very strong and there hasn't been the same need for the more radical feminist movements other countries have had.

ergonomics

I studied a fair bit of feminism in college and agree with some of it but I don't run around demanding equal rights or anything but I don't want men just assuming I can't do the things they do just as well. I'll give anything a try.

I work as a chef on a deli in a supermarket. Part of my job involves cooking whole chickens, 12 at a time. The owner of the shop (male) went mental at me the other day and told me that female members of staff are not allowed to take the 12 chickens from the fridge as they are too heavy and we'll just hurt our weak little selfs. We have to ask one of the male members of the staff to get them. I told him to basically feck off with himself. I am strong enough to carry them, and just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm going to do myself damage by picking up the chickens. I refused to ask a male member of staff to get the chickens and told the owner that if he continued to stop me he would be sorry.

That's about as feminist as I get. I don't run around burning my bras or anything like that!

Rob_l

ergonomics wrote: »

That's about as feminist as I get. I don't run around burning my bras or anything like that!

Is this because inflation has hit the price of bra's?

_feedback_

ergonomics wrote: »

just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm going to do myself damage by picking up the chickens

Ha don't know why, but the words vagina and chickens in the same sentence just made me laugh.

What bracket does it come under if I dislike the women an work that are CONSTANTLY talking about children, and CONSISTENTLY taking time off work (not holidays) because of the children?

And if I was an employer and decided not to employ a woman because she was going to or has children... i'd be hung, drawn and quartered.

Just think it's uunfair... If i had to bring the dog to the vet, the boss would laugh at me.

Don't think this comes under the thread title... but wanted that off me chest. Thanks

Pighead

With the dawn of feminism the Brits decided to give a chick a go at running their country and lets face it, she made a mess of things. You had your chance girls and you blew it.

The chicks will counter with "But but Pighead if there were more women in power then their would be an end to war and killing people" But thats balderdash, war would still be rife, it would just be the causes that would change. Pighead can see the headlines now.

"America and China go to war over Clintons "Big Bum" jibe to her Chinese counterpart"

_feedback_

Pighead wrote: »

"America and China go to war over Clintons "Big Bum" jibe to her Chinese counterpart"

Tupins

I think the word 'feminism' has changed in meaning over the years. It first started when women basically had no rights in comparison to men and this was the word used to try to change that. Nowadays (supposedly) women have equal rights to men so that's probably why you don't hear so much about it.

Having said that, there are still situations where inequality exists, I'm sure every woman reading this has an example - but you will also find discrimination against men (eg the media making them out to be thick etc). I think the mistake that people make is to interchange the word 'equal' with 'same'. Women and men can be equal but that doesn't mean they are the same and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing - we should celebrate the differences and accept that sometimes women are better in certain situations and men in others, it doesn't mean one sex is superior than the other.

For the woman with the chickens - maybe your boss didn't mean to patronise you as being 'weak'. In general men are stronger physically than woman - that's a fact! There are actually different legal limitations on how much weight women and men are allowed to lift at work. Perhaps he's afraid of getting into trouble with the law??? If you hurt yourself while lifting something heavy he could be sued or something. I personally am not very physically strong and always ask one of the guys at work to lift anything heavy but if you feel you are capable of lifting that weight then fair play to you, everyone knows their own strength.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now.......

RedXIV

I reckon it's time for a male movement! Lads get the blame for EVERYTHING these days! Women have surpassed the equality mark and now they get everything!

this has nothing to do with the quote i received for my car insurance! :mad:

slipss

Tupins wrote: »

I think the word 'feminism' has changed in meaning over the years. It first started when women basically had no rights in comparison to men and this was the word used to try to change that. Nowadays (supposedly) women have equal rights to men so that's probably why you don't hear so much about it.

Having said that, there are still situations where inequality exists, I'm sure every woman reading this has an example - but you will also find discrimination against men (eg the media making them out to be thick etc). I think the mistake that people make is to interchange the word 'equal' with 'same'. Women and men can be equal but that doesn't mean they are the same and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing - we should celebrate the differences and accept that sometimes women are better in certain situations and men in others, it doesn't mean one sex is superior than the other.

For the woman with the chickens - maybe your boss didn't mean to patronise you as being 'weak'. In general men are stronger physically than woman - that's a fact! There are actually different legal limitations on how much weight women and men are allowed to lift at work. Perhaps he's afraid of getting into trouble with the law??? If you hurt yourself while lifting something heavy he could be sued or something. I personally am not very physically strong and always ask one of the guys at work to lift anything heavy but if you feel you are capable of lifting that weight then fair play to you, everyone knows their own strength.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now.......

I was a bit baffled there for a minute. A sensible, well thought out, inteligent non-sensational awnser to a question. Then I spotted the problem, you're new here. I think what you meant to say was "I blame the Polish gypsy traveler taxi drivers that wear celtic jerseys and speak with a Cork accent" and then point out a spelling mistake someone made in a previous post, don't worry you'll get the hang of it.







No but seriously good post.

Sherifu

In before thaed.

Black Swan

stevoman wrote: »

Feminism!!! A touchy subject these days. but it doesnt seem to exsist in the crazy forms here that it does in america and other large nations.

I'm in university past couple years across the pond, and you appear behind times if you think that feminism is evidenced as "crazy" in the USA. It may have been way back when (along with Fred Flintstone male counterpart stereotypes), but it's pretty subtle now. Sure, you get a few on the noise-making vocal fringe no matter where you go (that the media exaggerates to sell advertising), but that's not the norm anymore. Women are fitting in and contributing, and many men seem to appreciate it now.

The USA has their first female Speaker-of-the-House in Congress, there's a serious female Clinton contender for the White House 2008 elections, and if you can believe The Chronicle of Higher Education, there are now more women enrolled in university than men (as well as more women enrolled in university business majors than men) in the USA.

Now, that does not mean that women have fully reached occupational equality in the USA... although there have been improvements over here, many women still do not get equal pay for equal work, and the CEO slots of the Fortune 500 could stand to have better representation, but structural change is gradual and is occurring. With more female university graduates hitting the marketplace than men over then next few decades, things will continue to change, and without all the fuss of the past.

4Xcut

ergonomics wrote: »

I studied a fair bit of feminism in college and agree with some of it but I don't run around demanding equal rights or anything but I don't want men just assuming I can't do the things they do just as well. I'll give anything a try.

I work as a chef on a deli in a supermarket. Part of my job involves cooking whole chickens, 12 at a time. The owner of the shop (male) went mental at me the other day and told me that female members of staff are not allowed to take the 12 chickens from the fridge as they are too heavy and we'll just hurt our weak little selfs. We have to ask one of the male members of the staff to get them. I told him to basically feck off with himself. I am strong enough to carry them, and just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm going to do myself damage by picking up the chickens. I refused to ask a male member of staff to get the chickens and told the owner that if he continued to stop me he would be sorry.

That's about as feminist as I get. I don't run around burning my bras or anything like that!

He was probably covering his own back. With the compo claim culture in Ireland now its something that is possible. Not saying you would but you can hear it now, "Wah, Wah, I hurt my back because I wasn't told not to lift things that were too heavy for me by my manager, Wah Wah"

And no, I'm not just refering to women. But on average, men are physically stronger and legislation tends to focus on averages for safety guidelines.

kowloon

slipss wrote: »

Polish gypsy traveler taxi drivers that wear celtic jerseys and speak with a Cork accent

The bastards are back!?!?
Fetch me my fightin' stick. You can only fight poles with poles.

Lockstep

feminism my foot.

Whenever I make claims about women not making good pilots or the size of Britney Spears' jugs the wife accuses me of sexism.
Yet whenever I give her a backhander she whines about it being wrong to hit a lass.
The hypocricy confounds me.

Capt'n Midnight

biko wrote:

When women get equal pay for work

some stats say that women aget 15% less pay than males in the same jobs.
15% ? That is a huge margin in todays economy any company that could benefit from that would make a killing.

Or you could believe another survey that shows that women were typically less qualified than males in the same job.


Re carrying 12 chickens, health and safety rules are different for the weights men and women can carry

Capt'n Midnight

http://michelemiller.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/suffrage_poster_3.jpg

leninbenjamin

ergonomics wrote: »

I work as a chef on a deli in a supermarket. Part of my job involves cooking whole chickens, 12 at a time. The owner of the shop (male) went mental at me the other day and told me that female members of staff are not allowed to take the 12 chickens from the fridge as they are too heavy and we'll just hurt our weak little selfs. We have to ask one of the male members of the staff to get them. I told him to basically feck off with himself. I am strong enough to carry them, and just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm going to do myself damage by picking up the chickens. I refused to ask a male member of staff to get the chickens and told the owner that if he continued to stop me he would be sorry.

actually there are laws in place that limit the amount women can lift on their own (can't remember the exact figure, but it's pisstakingly low). if you f*cked up he'd be liable no matter what. he was well within his rights to tell you to stop if he felt the weight was excessive. c'est la vie.

leninbenjamin

leninbenjamin wrote: »

actually there are laws in place that limit the amount women can lift on their own (can't remember the exact figure, but it's pisstakingly low). if you f*cked up he'd be liable no matter what. he was well within his rights to tell you to stop if he felt the weight was excessive. c'est la vie.

If I haven't blanked all of the expierence that was my last manual handling course, nobody should lift more than 20 kg unaided.

tribulus

Moonbaby wrote: »

If I haven't blanked all of the expierence that was my last manual handling course, nobody should lift more than 20 kg unaided.

That's very low.

leninbenjamin

Moonbaby wrote: »

If I haven't blanked all of the expierence that was my last manual handling course, nobody should lift more than 20 kg unaided.

hmmm.... subsequent googling suggests the limits have been removed. my mistake.

Fanny Cradock

I'm quite sure that there are feminist men out there.

Lockstep

I've great respect for Francis Sheehy-Skeffington

kowloon

I believe the weight limits are company policies not actual law, it varies from company to company.

I believe that any references to gender should, as a matter of principal, be completely removed from all legislation, bylaws etc. in any case where its inclusion is not absolutely necessary (there are suprisingly few situations where it is).

kickoutthejams

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I've great respect for Francis Sheehy-Skeffington

Vegetarian teetotalers RULE!

the_syco

Meh. Women want equal rights, but only if it benefits them.

Chardee MacDennis

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The USA has their first female Speaker-of-the-House in Congress, there's a serious female Clinton contender for the White House 2008 elections,

well Pelosi is fast gaining a reputation as a weak politician, tbh it is more to do with the state of DNP - but i can imagine it will also reflect badly on women in politics, especially when Clinton is going around crying at every opportunity she gets.

I would say if Clinton doesnt win the DNP nomination she will have done more harm the good for women in polictics in my opinion as she has reinforced the stereotype of the over-emotional women who cant be trusted with power.

JC 2K3

Sherifu wrote: »

In before thaed.

lol

Nevyn

Sherifu wrote: »

In before thaed.

Cheeky git.

Other threads on this topic you may have miss

The last one that was in AH
Do you think feminism has gone too far?

and some from the ladies lounge.

What a feminist looks like
Feminism - Your thoughts on it.
Would you call yourself a feminist ?
If not why not ?

As I said earlier

Well every group, movement or cause has it's fanatics and it's extremists and they make better sound bite press.

Soccer hooliganism to soccer what radical feminists are to feminism.

It's like someone who is from Europe who assumes that all of Ireland is like the 6 counties up north for before the good friday agreement because that is all they ever saw on the news.

And yes Fanny Cradock there are feminist men out there.

Bill Bailey
Ade Edmondson and
Patrick Stewart to mention three.

If there were no men who are feminist the the laws to given women the right to vote would not have been draughted, voted on and passed.

Rob_l

Equal rights for men is what we want, feminism isn't about equal rights its about getting the best deal for women it has nothing to do with equality.

stevoman

Rob_l wrote: »

Equal rights for men is what we want, feminism isn't about equal rights its about getting the best deal for women it has nothing to do with equality.

touche

Acid_Violet

Dragan wrote: »

The subject you are asking about means a million different things to a million different people, without some kind of context this thread = fail.

QFT

Acid_Violet

Rob_l wrote: »

Equal rights for men is what we want, feminism isn't about equal rights its about getting the best deal for women it has nothing to do with equality.

What makes you think that?

Lockstep

Thaedydal wrote: »

Bill Bailey
Ade Edmondson and
Patrick Stewart to mention three.

All three are also legends. Especially Ade Edmondson.
QFT.

Moonbaby wrote: »

Vegetarian teetotalers RULE!

Hey, I'll back Francis Sheehy-Skeffington to the hilt. He was a great man. (though I'm no vegetarian)



Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

Capt'n Midnight

Moonbaby wrote: »

Vegetarian teetotalers RULE!

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=436
Dr. Hannibal Lecktor

the_syco

Acid_Violet wrote: »

What makes you think that?

You're taking the piss, right?

pebblesjm

Tupins wrote: »

I think the word 'feminism' has changed in meaning over the years. It first started when women basically had no rights in comparison to men and this was the word used to try to change that. Nowadays (supposedly) women have equal rights to men so that's probably why you don't hear so much about it.

Having said that, there are still situations where inequality exists, I'm sure every woman reading this has an example - but you will also find discrimination against men (eg the media making them out to be thick etc). I think the mistake that people make is to interchange the word 'equal' with 'same'. Women and men can be equal but that doesn't mean they are the same and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing - we should celebrate the differences and accept that sometimes women are better in certain situations and men in others, it doesn't mean one sex is superior than the other.

For the woman with the chickens - maybe your boss didn't mean to patronise you as being 'weak'. In general men are stronger physically than woman - that's a fact! There are actually different legal limitations on how much weight women and men are allowed to lift at work. Perhaps he's afraid of getting into trouble with the law??? If you hurt yourself while lifting something heavy he could be sued or something. I personally am not very physically strong and always ask one of the guys at work to lift anything heavy but if you feel you are capable of lifting that weight then fair play to you, everyone knows their own strength.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now.......

Here here couldn't have put it better myself, the whole 'I'm strong enough to lift/push etc.' argument annoys me. When I was working as a sailing instructor one of the 'feminist' girls there COULD NOT be told to just leave the lifting of the heavy boats to the lads....oh no she had to prove that she was good enough:rolleyes:.............whilst I did still as much work but the the lighter chores and didn't end up with lots and lots of back pain as she did!!

I find that there are a lot of people out there who think they're feminists whereas they are just paying lip service to it and using it as an excuse to b**ch about boys and moan................I b**ch bout lads all the time, but I don't hide behind 'feminism':p

On the otherhand one of the lads mentioned above that he gets annoyed at women taking time out for family life.......Well hold your horses!!!! The importance of stable nuclear families in society CANNOT continue to be so under-rated!!! Family has such an influence over the entire society from SES and education and subsequently government policies...etc ad naseum..... So this guilt that is put on parents (tho mostly the ladies...) when they do need to tend to their children is antagonistic to developing a more stable society and a happy next generation.........................they will be minding us in old age:cool: (what comes around....................)

Tupins

Exactly!

Men who complain about women taking time off from work for family reasons conveniently forget the double standards that exist for men and women in their work lives.

If a couple have a child, 99% of the time it's the woman who is expected to stay at home to mind it, or at least only work part time. Stay at home fathers are considered 'sissys' or 'under the thumb' or whatever other pathetic stereotype the media and society has created. If a woman goes to work and leaves her child with a childminder, many people frown on this. God forbid a woman who tries to do both - no easy task - and is chastised for leaving work the odd time to take care of a sick child or whatever. I wonder what would be the posters attitude to a woman who didn't go to the aid of her sick child - it's a no win situation.

_feedback_

Tupins wrote: »

Men who complain about women taking time off from work for family reasons conveniently forget the double standards that exist for men and women in their work lives.

What double standards are they?

Tupins wrote: »

If a woman goes to work and leaves her child with a childminder, many people frown on this. God forbid a woman who tries to do both - no easy task - and is chastised for leaving work the odd time to take care of a sick child or whatever.

My point is, if they are PAYING a childminder to look after the kid, then why, every time the kid sneezes, they should have to go home.

I know sneeze is OTT, but I'm not talking about serious illnesses here. Kids get sick... they are paying for someone to look after them, let them look after them.

Rob_l

Acid_Violet wrote: »

What makes you think that?

Its very name gives a slight hint!

Tupins

elviscostello wrote: »

What double standards are they?

Eh the double standards that I went on to explain in the subsequent paragraph....



My point is, if they are PAYING a childminder to look after the kid, then why, every time the kid sneezes, they should have to go home.

I know sneeze is OTT, but I'm not talking about serious illnesses here. Kids get sick... they are paying for someone to look after them, let them look after them.

Look, I totally agree with you that obviously women who go home everytime the child sneezes are taking the p*** and as always they are the ones who give working mothers a bad name but my point is there are plenty of women out there who are doing the best they can to work and be a mother at the same time. I have respect for them but if it came down to a choice between giving your attention to a (genuinely) sick child or being at work I think you couldn't blame a mother for wanting to be with her child.

Perhaps this wouldn't be such an issue if fathers were encouraged to spend more time with their children - given proper paternity leave or whatever and not being judged for being a stay at home father instead of the macho bread winners.

I know of a couple who are friends of mine and the woman has a really high paying job in management consultancy, he is a contractor and while he earned good enough money his work was inconsistent and all in all he earned less than she did. They've recently had a baby and the mother is now on maternity leave. The other day they were discussing financial stuff, chilminders etc in front of me and talking about the mother leaving her job to look after the child. I casually suggested the father leaving his job instead and looking after the child as it would make more financial sense - he just gave me a withering look and said "Why don't you just cut my balls off and be done with it?"

To him it was utterly demeaning - yet it's perfectly fine for a woman to do it!

Where's the equality there?

Rob_l

Tupins wrote: »

Look, I totally agree with you that obviously women who go home everytime the child sneezes are taking the p*** and as always they are the ones who give working mothers a bad name


To him it was utterly demeaning - yet it's perfectly fine for a woman to do it!

Where's the equality there?

maybe he is just one man giving other men a bad name

A very good friend of mine stays at home with his child while his wife was off studying and working because she was working towards becoming a doctor and it made financial sense for him to stay at home and mind the child.

Single examples dont prove any point is my point.