Brown: 'Bertie and Brian' were the real people who got the big names to NI for USNI

darkman2

Gordon Brown said in an interview with RTE that Biffo and Bertie were most influential in luring the heavy hitters from the US. Hearing this, for such a small country, it reminds me we punch astronomically above our weight. It also reminds me that the all Island economy is now real and will build further. My impression, given our own financial commitments to the North is that they owe us big time at this stage. No wonder Unionists are suddenly embracing it. My question though is, given our own problems, is it time to perhaps limit our promotion of NI? Not that they will ever be a serious competitor but one gets the impression we are paying too much attention atm and should be concentrating more on our own jurisdiction lest we make them a serious competitor. What do you think? Perhaps you think we should be giving no money to the North and certainly not promoting it!? Is Fianna Fail only doing all this in the interests of its move to NI?

leninbenjamin

darkman2 wrote: »

Gordon Brown said in an interview with RTE that Biffo and Bertie were most influential in luring the heavy hitters from the US. Hearing this, for such a small country, it reminds me we punch astronomically above our weight. It also reminds me that the all Island economy is now real and will build further. My impression, given our own financial commitments to the North is that they owe us big time at this stage. No wonder Unionists are suddenly embracing it. My question though is, given our own problems, is it time to perhaps limit our promotion of NI? Not that they will ever be a serious competitor but one gets the impression we are paying too much attention atm and should be concentrating more on our own jurisdiction lest we make them a serious competitor. What do you think? Perhaps you think we should be giving no money to the North and certainly not promoting it!?

if there's ever the possibility that the north will rejoin us here in the south we basically want them to be in as strong a position as possible economically as to integrate our economies and public sectors will cost a truckload. so if people really believe this is possible (i'm not sure tbh, but it seems a fair few still do) we'd better give them as much as a leg up as we can, as the UK seems to be losing interest in them, and their current political forces up there are antiquated in political ideology (if you ignore the whole nationalism/loyalism drivers) to say the least. A strong economy in NI is good for welfare, good for getting rid of the old barriers and due to our proximity and close ties, good for us as well (I think there's a lot more cross border trade than people in the south realise).

murphaph

darkman2 wrote: »

My impression, given our own financial commitments to the North is that they owe us big time at this stage.

Well, we did lay claim to their territory for most of the time the IRA were killing them in our name to 'reclaim' it for us, so maybe we owe them.

darkman2 wrote: »

No wonder Unionists are suddenly embracing it. My question though is, given our own problems, is it time to perhaps limit our promotion of NI? Not that they will ever be a serious competitor but one gets the impression we are paying too much attention atm and should be concentrating more on our own jurisdiction lest we make them a serious competitor.

They once thought that about us! They were the industrial centre (and still are to an extent-they have industries we do not) of the island and scoffed at the rural backwater of the south. You think Northern Ireland is incapable of industry and prosperity? look back before the troubles and see which side of the border had the blue skies.

On your last point about FF feathering their own NI nests....you are probably right. The whole "invest in NI" thing coming from FF atm is beyond me. We have so many infrastructural and social defeceits to catch up on to be encouraging money away from us seems ludicrous. Ok, the north is not like encouraging development in say, Scotland as NI's biggest trade partner is us by a long way so we'd benefit from a prosperous north more than a prosperous Scotland, but let the Stormont Executive fight its own battles for its own people please. We are LOSING jobs in the south. We need our agencies and government focused on that.

LordSutch

leninbenjamin wrote: »

if there's ever the possibility that the north will rejoin us here in the south we basically want them to be in as strong a position as possible economically as to integrate our economies and public sectors will cost a truckload. so if people really believe this is possible (i'm not sure tbh, but it seems a fair few still do) we'd better give them as much as a leg up as we can, as the UK seems to be losing interest in them, and their current political forces up there are antiquated in political ideology (if you ignore the whole nationalism/loyalism drivers) to say the least. A strong economy in NI is good for welfare, good for getting rid of the old barriers and due to our proximity and close ties, good for us as well (I think there's a lot more cross border trade than people in the south realise).

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but what will 'joining with the South' mean? in the ever changing relationships between the various regions/ countries of these islands, in other words, I dont see a closer relationship meaning the Nationalist definition of Belfast being run from Dublin with a Tricolour flying over City Hall, yet a more natural friendlyness & closer economic relationship between the two cultures is a dead cert.

Scotland is in the news this week re its pending vote on total seperation from England & the rest of the UK, & as you already said leninbenjamin 'the rest of the UK seem to be losing interest in Northern Ireland' (not that they had much interest in the first place), but its the question of National identity & banners/ flags that will always be the sticking point for a 'Nationalist View' of a united ireland, unless the definition changes . . ?

Finally 'regarding cross border trade' lets hope it continues to flourish & grow like it should, between North & South, Britain & Ireland, England & Scotland, Wales & Ireland, East & West ..............

guinnessdrinker

Unionists were initially totally against an all Ireland economy but I think they do realise at this stage it makes sense.

When Peter Hain first metioned an "island-of-Ireland economy", some Unionists called for his resignation but I think they can now see the benifits.

I know some people think that the Irish gov are paying too much attention to the North's economy but the the gov have a responsibility to all Irish citizens on the island not just those living in the ROI.

Erin Go Brath

The Irish Government have done nothing, and pretended the 6 counties didn't exist for long enough. Its about time they invested in the 6. I would be sceptical of their motives though. I agree with the thoughts above that FF are investing now in particular, as a precusor to organising up there. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts rest assured. Sewing the seeds for potential future votes does appear (to a sceptic like me anyway) the most plausible reason for it.

murphaph

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I know some people think that the Irish gov are paying too much attention to the North's economy but the the gov have a responsibility to all Irish citizens on the island not just those living in the ROI.

Eh? That's like saying they should divert investment from the RoI to Boston or London because a load of irish live there. The north is not in their remit. They do not collect ta revenue from the north. They collect it from us in the south. This is the crux of the issue to me. Sensible investment in NI infrastructure (where a clear benefit can be shown to the south) is acceptable but diverting jobs is another matter entirely. The north needs to compete-it will never learn to compete if it is continued to be spoonfed!

guinnessdrinker

I would be also skeptical of FF's motives also, however I don't remember any of the opposition parties in the Dail making an issue of opposing any investment either so I think the fact that it is happening now just as FF are organising to contest elections in the North is possibly just a coincidence.

guinnessdrinker

murphaph wrote: »

Eh? That's like saying they should divert investment from the RoI to Boston or London because a load of irish live there.

Not really although the gov have invested in Irish communities abroad too in the past, I have no problem with that at all even though the gov don't collect revenue from them either.

leninbenjamin

ArthurF wrote: »

in other words, I dont see a closer relationship meaning the Nationalist definition of Belfast being run from Dublin with a Tricolour flying over City Hall,

nor do I, but that doesn't mean there aren't others who do. With rumours of Fianna Fail setting up in the north, I'd hazard they among others see this very much as a long term possiblity, what with them being the 'republican party' and all.

Kovik

I'd like to see what exactly the economic yield for the south would be by assisting the economy to the north.

My initial is that it's simply not worth the south's efforts to encourage economic stimulus up north so that a foreign government can collect tax on top of it where their own policies have failed.