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To Live Together or Not???

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24

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    #32
    John Mason
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    Does anyone wonder how our grand parents and parents managed to get married at all ?

    Marriage is all about making an effort, compromising and working things out together.

    Living together is the easy option, there is no commitment "and sure if drives me nuts, i can just throw him out".

    New Ireland society makes me sad


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    #33
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    times were very different back then - for one religion was a massive part.
    So was sex - or lack of it.

    Would you rather go back to a priest telling you that "you should only procrate to produce children" and "get back into the kitchen woman"?

    ...yea, modern ireland is a very sad place.


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    #34
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    The living habits thing - it's not that your partner might do something that drives you nuts. It's far more likely to be the case that your partner doesn't do something. Yes, it's annoying if your partner constantly leaves his socks on the living room floor. But you're not likely to move out over it.

    However the housework generally can be a big, huge, enormous, WHOPPING MAHOOSIVE issue in a relationship. If your partner never cleans, sulks when asked to clean and spends their days off chilling out whereas you spend yours cleaning, it won't take much to make you feel undervalued and disrespected.

    THAT is the issue. Not that he won't clean the toilet. But that he won't clean the toilet and you have to do it all the time and you're wondering what sort of a git he is that he leaves it to you and generally you aren't feeling cherished.

    There was a study came out a few weeks ago that men who do more housework have a more active sexlife with their partners. It came on the Aussie news down here, and them being blokey blokes the issue was raised of 'withholding sex'. However I don't think there are many women who use sex as a reward for housework. I'd say there are far more who are simply more likely to want to make love to a partner who they feel has respect for them.

    There are two major issues in a relationship that cohabiting will reveal - one is your attitudes to housework and the second is your attitudes to money. The money subject comes up again and again on threads in the LL. Lots of younger women are determined to go 50/50 with their partners on all bills and outgoings, regardless of relative income. Cohabiting puts you in that position - you split everything 50/50 and the excuse can be 'Why shouldn't we, we're not married'.

    It took me a while to come to this conclusion, but I believe outgoing splits should be relative to your income. So if your income is 65/35 to him, then he pays for 65% of your joint bills and you pay for 35%. I know many people disagree, but I've seen some of my friends come out of longer-term relationships with not a bean saved, and sometimes even money owed, because they were spending everything meeting their 50% commitment of a lifestyle level that is often governed by the higher earner. Before you agree to a 50/50 split on something, think this: if you were on your own, and not with this person, would you be living in this flat/using this phone package/watching these TV channels/eating in that restaurant/going to that country on holidays?

    You learn a lot about people by living with them. Some of those lessons can be very, very hard. Marriage isn't a fix-all for differences of opinion, and it doesn't magically facilitate compromise.

    I do think marriage changes a relationship and I disagree that it's pointless, but I think the closeness and togetherness attributed to marriage comes from the amount of time you're together and is nothing to do with the institution. Relationships develop over time. Your relationship at three years is different to one year. Four years is different again. You may think you know someone after one year, but it's nothing compared to how you know them after five years.


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    #35
    Marz66
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Marz66


    irishbird wrote: »
    Does anyone wonder how our grand parents and parents managed to get married at all ?

    Marriage is all about making an effort, compromising and working things out together.

    Living together is the easy option, there is no commitment "and sure if drives me nuts, i can just throw him out".

    New Ireland society makes me sad

    +1

    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    There are two major issues in a relationship that cohabiting will reveal - one is your attitudes to housework and the second is your attitudes to money.

    Why would you move in with anyone without knowing their attitude to household chores? And why would you move in with a partner without knowing their attitude to finances? Here's an idea - why don't you discuss and compromise on these things before moving in together/getting married?


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    #36
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We both practically live together anyway as I have a lot of stuff in his..

    This is something that I always find funny and I've heard it quite a lot. Spending a lot of time in each other's places can in fact be very, very far removed from the reality of actually living together. If you're in his place for most of the week, it's still his place, and vice versa. There is a very different dynamic when you actually live together. (Not having a go by the way CSG....I used to say the same myself before we moved in together :))
    irishbird wrote: »
    Does anyone wonder how our grand parents and parents managed to get married at all ?

    Marriage is all about making an effort, compromising and working things out together.

    Living together is the easy option, there is no commitment "and sure if drives me nuts, i can just throw him out".

    New Ireland society makes me sad



    Your posts on this subject always amuse me, irishbird. Why does it have to be dating and marriage? What's so wrong with having the in between stage where you live together before getting married? What's wrong with wanting to be completely secure in your relationship before making the commitment of marriage. You seem to think it's a sacred commitment that shouldn't be taken lightly so surely it makes more sense to actually see if you can live together before putting a ring on your finger? I think you massively underestimate the level of commitment involved in deciding to move in together. You'd swear it was something as trivial as going on holidays the way you go on. And what about the couples who live together in a property they've bought together?Do you think there's no commitment involved there? Yeah you can walk away from living together, but you can walk away from a marriage just as easily if you are so inclined.

    You're right, marriage is all about compromise and working through things together, but if you just can't live together why waste both your time being miserable in the marriage. Of course marriages often don't work out for a number of reasons but living together before marriage could help eliminate a potentially big hurdle.

    "If you want to know me come and live with me" has been said on this thread numerous times for very good reason.


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    #37
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    Marz66 wrote: »
    Why would you move in with anyone without knowing their attitude to household chores? And why would you move in with a partner without knowing their attitude to finances? Here's an idea - why don't you discuss and compromise on these things before moving in together/getting married?

    What people say and what they actually do are regularly two different things. "I like to live in a clean house". "Yes, so do I." Excellent. Until you realise your verison of clean would impress a hospital matron and his version of clean means that there's at least one room you can walk through without bumping into something.

    People also often stop doing things around the house if they think you do it better/more regularly.

    Also attitudes to finance change over time. What happens if your job situation changes? What happens if his changes? When your priorities change - and they do, all of the time - your attitude to money and housework will change as well. Time-Money-Housework-Future - these four things are tied into an ever-changing equation. It might take more time to make more money so you do less housework, but you're making more money because you're thinking of the future. Or perhaps she takes more time to do more housework and makes the same money and can't think of the future because she's too busy being annoyed about the time she's taking to do the housework.

    Also people make declarations about how something doesn't matter to them or doesn't annoy them, and then over time it damn well starts to get RIGHT on their LAST NERVE.

    It isn't as strictly regimented as you seem to think, where you negotiate some sort of behavioural contract in advance of moving in together and then stick to that.

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    #38
    Walls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Walls


    MJD is right, believe me. The difference between what folks say and what they do has to be seen to be believed.

    I see your reasoning about bill payment being equal to monies coming in. But let me just give you a scenario to complicate things. Lets say she earns more money than him. But HE still wants to spend more than her on, say, the weekly food bill, or what have you. What would you recommend then?


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    #39
    NextSteps
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭NextSteps


    Marz66 wrote: »
    +1




    Why would you move in with anyone without knowing their attitude to household chores? And why would you move in with a partner without knowing their attitude to finances? Here's an idea - why don't you discuss and compromise on these things before moving in together/getting married?

    There's a long way between nodding and smiling and scrubbing a toilet.


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    #40
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    Why does it have to be dating and marriage? What's so wrong with having the in between stage where you live together before getting married? What's wrong with wanting to be completely secure in your relationship before making the commitment of marriage.

    What, indeed, is wrong with just living together with no plans to get married? It is possible after all to have a completely secure relationship without marriage. :confused:


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    #41
    John Mason
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    OMG, would you actual split up with someone because they didnt clean the toilet? LOL how bizzare:D


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    #42
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    Malari wrote: »
    What, indeed, is wrong with just living together with no plans to get married? It is possible after all to have a completely secure relationship without marriage. :confused:

    I have to agree with this, I have to say that I have always found it interesting how some will still see people who lead happy lifes together unwed as taboo.


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    #43
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    Walls wrote: »
    I see your reasoning about bill payment being equal to monies coming in. But let me just give you a scenario to complicate things. Lets say she earns more money than him. But HE still wants to spend more than her on, say, the weekly food bill, or what have you. What would you recommend then?

    I don't have a solution. I've been in a number of different positions in the last decade - I've been the higher earner and payer of everything, the higher earner and payer of 50/50, the lower earner and payer of 50/50 and the lower earner and payer of a relative sum. Now there is no 'your money and my money' split any more and all the budget decisions are joint - what can WE afford, or not afford. It's probaby because we're building a house and don't have time to do the 'my share, your share' thing.

    It's always difficult to sort it out. Compromise can be difficult to achieve on things where people feel really strongly. I have two hobbies: cooking and plants. I spend more money than your average Joe on both things. My spending comes out of 'our' finances. As compromise, I no longer own more pairs of shoes than God, and haven't clothes shopped in months.

    My other half isn't spending recreationally much at the moment either, but I fully expect an X-box to appear in the house some time soon, out of 'our' finances. If I bought cookware every week and decided to start a collection of rare bamboos, and the X-box was followed closely by a Wii and a plasma TV, there would be heated discussion. Mainly because we wouldn't be able to afford our mortgage. (Property ownership is sobering. Renting is less so.)

    So no, I don't have a solution to finances. I think couples need to find their own way and it needs to be a long-term sustainable solution, not a brave-faced route to hidden bankruptcy for one or other partner. For that reason alone I think cohabiting is a great idea.


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    #44
    JackieO
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JackieO


    This has turned into quite an interesting thread!

    I suppose the whole living together thing is different in every situation. And also I think that couples expectations when moving in together are often not the same.

    For example, I have one or two friends living with their BF's for a long number of years and waiting for that next step to happen i.e. engagement and its just not forthcoming. A few people have commented to me that the reason they are not engaged is because they are living together and the man gets lazy - its definately not the girls that don't want it anyway.

    I just wondering if they hadn't been so quick to move in together then maybe they'd already been married by now? On the other hand these relationships are far from ideal and maybe they are just not meant to be together but neither one wants to accept it.

    From my own perspective - as I've already said, owing to logistics myself and my OH are not in a position to live together at the moment. In order to do so it would involved my moving from Dublin (where I've lived for 14 years and own my own place) to the country (lets just say its a long way down the country). His job is where he is based -end of story, whereas I could get a job anywhere. Ideally I don't want to live in Dublin forever anyway. And its not a location issue at all. I just feel that in order to make that move, I would need some form of commitment, given that it would involved uprooting my whole life, leaving my friends behind and starting a new life in new location. I don't forsee it as being a problem, but I just think I wouldn't be willing to do it unless we were engaged.


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    #45
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    Walls wrote: »
    But let me just give you a scenario to complicate things. Lets say she earns more money than him. But HE still wants to spend more than her on, say, the weekly food bill, or what have you. What would you recommend then?

    As a male all I can say is that there will always be exceptions to the rule and this is it. truthfully he really needs to start living in the present. Men aren't necessarily the main bread winners any more and it's time he copped onto that. Pride won't do any good if his situation changes


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    #46
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    Malari wrote: »
    What, indeed, is wrong with just living together with no plans to get married? It is possible after all to have a completely secure relationship without marriage. :confused:

    I agree 100%. I was merely referring to marriage in response to irishbird's post. I'm all for people living happily unmarried together if that's what works for them. Look at Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell :)


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    #47
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    I'm all for people living happily unmarried together if that's what works for them. Look at Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell :)

    Hmmm, can't think of two better role models ;)


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    #48
    Sugar Drunk
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Sugar Drunk


    JackieO wrote: »
    For example, I have one or two friends living with their BF's for a long number of years and waiting for that next step to happen i.e. engagement and its just not forthcoming. A few people have commented to me that the reason they are not engaged is because they are living together and the man gets lazy - its definately not the girls that don't want it anyway.

    I just wondering if they hadn't been so quick to move in together then maybe they'd already been married by now? , but I just think I wouldn't be .

    its cute how you and irish bird seem to think the only goal in life is to get married ye must have been beaten v hard by the catholic stick lol. Its mad that you seem to pity girls who are not married but living with someone its very old fashioned. That quote above is very hard on the fellas is it not? did it ever occur to you that some of us women are living with men, enjoying it and not desperately waiting for him to ask us to marry him? shock horror i live with my boyfriend and we have no intention of getting married in the near future. We are both very happy and love living together. Thankfully I have an interesting life and dont spend all day wishing he would pop the question so I can start designing invitations and pop out a few sprogs so I can feel fullfilled in life!

    if you wanna get married, go for it but dont look down on those of is who are happy to live together long term. I think its madness to marry someone you have never lived with but thats my opinion. id rather walk away froma relationship if we couldnt live together than drag through a divorce.


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    #49
    JackieO
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JackieO


    Sugar Drunk wrote: »
    its cute how you and irish bird seem to think the only goal in life is to get married ye must have been beaten v hard by the catholic stick lol. Its mad that you seem to pity girls who are not married but living with someone its very old fashioned. That quote above is very hard on the fellas is it not? did it ever occur to you that some of us women are living with men, enjoying it and not desperately waiting for him to ask us to marry him? shock horror i live with my boyfriend and we have no intention of getting married in the near future. We are both very happy and love living together. Thankfully I have an interesting life and dont spend all day wishing he would pop the question so I can start designing invitations and pop out a few sprogs so I can feel fullfilled in life!

    if you wanna get married, go for it but dont look down on those of is who are happy to live together long term. I think its madness to marry someone you have never lived with but thats my opinion. id rather walk away froma relationship if we couldnt live together than drag through a divorce.

    I totally disagree that its life only goal to get married. It wouldn't bother me if I never got married tbh.

    And, I have no problems with people living together at all. Of course I understand that people live together and some have no interest or inclination to get married.

    The specific examples I'm referring to however do involve friends of mine who really DO want to get married and have been living with their partners for 10+ years and it just doesn't seem to be happening.


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    #50
    JackieO
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JackieO


    I'm sure there are plenty more females out there living with their OH's and secretly hoping for a proposal than will ever admit.


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    #51
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    well then, why don't they ask the men?
    It's a bit silly to not take positive action on an issue that is so important them.
    Silly bordering on moronic.


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    #52
    John Mason
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    Sugar Drunk wrote: »
    its cute how you and irish bird seem to think the only goal in life is to get married


    TBH honest getting married is something i never intend to do . I am not condemnig people who live together. I just think people move in together too quickly and for the wrong reasons. I have lived with two people and they didnt work out for various reasons. i am at a point in my life where i dont see the point in just moving in together for the hell of it. If you are making the commitment to live together then why not get married?

    may be its just my age but a lot of my friends have come to this conclusion also, i dont know may be we have just had different life experiences then other people here. a few of my married friends made the decision not to live with each other before they got married and they are all happy


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    #53
    JackieO
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JackieO


    Thanks Irishbird

    A bit of sanity returns.

    ps. one of my friends has actually asked her OH to marry her and he said yes, but every time she tries to get him to agree to buying the ring he fobs her off, keeps making excuses. I'm not sure what is going on there? Think he just doesn't want to go through with it maybe? (that was 2 years ago!). Don't ask why she is still there cos I have no idea.


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    #54
    John Mason
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    JackieO wrote: »
    Thanks Irishbird

    A bit of sanity returns.

    ps. one of my friends has actually asked her OH to marry her and he said yes, but every time she tries to get him to agree to buying the ring he fobs her off, keeps making excuses. I'm not sure what is going on there? Think he just doesn't want to go through with it maybe? (that was 2 years ago!). Don't ask why she is still there cos I have no idea.

    they arent called killian and rachel are they?


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    #55
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    JackieO wrote: »
    ps. one of my friends has actually asked her OH to marry her and he said yes, but every time she tries to get him to agree to buying the ring he fobs her off, keeps making excuses.
    Why would he buy her a ring?

    She asked him.


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    #56
    Clink
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭Clink


    irishbird wrote: »
    TBH honest getting married is something i never intend to do . I am not condemnig people who live together. I just think people move in together too quickly and for the wrong reasons. I have lived with two people and they didnt work out for various reasons. i am at a point in my life where i dont see the point in just moving in together for the hell of it. If you are making the commitment to live together then why not get married?

    may be its just my age but a lot of my friends have come to this conclusion also, i dont know may be we have just had different life experiences then other people here. a few of my married friends made the decision not to live with each other before they got married and they are all happy

    So you should be glad that you lived with these two fellas first. What if you did as you're suggesting and had married either of them before realising that you couldn't live together? So maybe it's yourself that moved in with someone for the wrong reasons, doesn't mean that everyone out there is doing the same.


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    #57
    John Mason
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    Clink wrote: »
    So you should be glad that you lived with these two fellas first. What if you did as you're suggesting and had married either of them before realising that you couldn't live together? So maybe it's yourself that moved in with someone for the wrong reasons, doesn't mean that everyone out there is doing the same.


    yes, we moved in together for totally the wrong reasons and i would never have married either of them.

    i as i said previously i have no problem with people living together, but it needs to be for the right reasons and if the reasons are right i.e. you love them and want to spend the rest of your life together then why not get married?


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    #58
    JackieO
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭JackieO


    irishbird wrote: »
    i as i said previously i have no problem with people living together, but it needs to be for the right reasons and if the reasons are right i.e. you love them and want to spend the rest of your life together then why not get married?

    I totally agree! But thats just my opinion. I would have no interest in moving in with somebody unless I was intending to spend the rest of my life with them and if thats the case then I think you should get married.

    I have no problem with other people doing it, just wouldn't be for me thats all!


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    #59
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Zulu wrote: »
    Why would he buy her a ring?

    She asked him.

    Yeah, uh, surely she should buy him something?


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    #60
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    ...I guess not if she needed to show off to her friends. I wonder about some peoples attitude to marrage, or I guess more accurately their attitude to status.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zulu wrote: »
    ...I guess not if she needed to show off to her friends. I wonder about some peoples attitude to marrage, or I guess more accurately their attitude to status.

    Eh Marraige is about status.:confused:


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