Marijuana March tomorrow.

10-05-2008 05:24PM

ProVox wrote: »

Are you serious? Man thats a weak attempt at invalidating a whole argument. In that case why not donate all the money we'd spend on alcohol or cars, or new clothes or luxury items??

Granted the people of burma need help, but cop the **** on

Think before you post man

Your telling me to cop on ? This is a march being organise to legalize a drug. So you can sit around and get stoned. Why dont all these people march for something to help the world ? ?
Yes there is the pont that MJ is not that bad , but it can lead to other drug abuse. Like as you say Alcohal , some people can drink but there are alot out there that cant. They become Alcoholics. This affects them it affects their family and people around them. Why add to it with MJ ?

The point i was trying to make is why march for somthing that does more harm to somebody's life then good ?

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 05:26PM

keen wrote: »

Have a look a someone who's been snorting coke for years and compare that to someone that's been smoking cannabis for years and tell me that they are the same.

The same? No. I didn't say they were the same. However, one might be a waster with no job, drained of all motivation and living a shít life just smoking weed all day, whereas the other one might be a waster with doing nothing with thier life but trying to get their next fix. Of course both might be healthy individuals, having taken their respecitve drugs in moderation.

keen wrote: »

Why would goverments class drugs if all drugs had equal effects and just had different highs?

The government classes drugs according to whatever agenda they're trying to push, not by effects or potential harm.

syklops wrote: »

Yes I am.

http://archives.tcm.ie/thekingdom/2003/10/09/story10973.asp

No info in that suggests her death was directly related to MDMA, ie. Ecstasy. What they call "ecstasy" in that link could have been PMA or something else likely to be fatal. There's also a chance that it was water intoxication (which is a cause of ecstasy related deaths very often, due to the bullshít "you can't drink too much water on ecstasy" advice which is commonly circulated).

This is one of the main reasons why I believe drugs should be legalised. If this poor girl had gotten proper MDMA from a regulated source, knew the dosage she was taking and knew how much water to drink, then she would probably be still alive today.

robby^5 · 10-05-2008 05:59PM

Marijuana should be legalized.

a) Because its a pointless ban, marijuana is only as dangerous as alchohol or tabacco, and only if its abused, so why the double standard? Its only a gateway drug because the people selling it provide that gateway to harder drugs.

b) It will take power away from criminals, allow the government to regulate its sale and who sells it and they can put an age limit on it. Not to mention they can tax it (

)

If weed was sold in say Starbucks then you remove people from the drug community, reducing the risk of being offered or seeking out harder drugs at some stage.

Not everyone who smokes weed is a stoner, just like not everyone who drinks alchohol is an alchoholic. It can be the same for a lot of drugs, but there would be a prevalence of dependancy with addictive drugs such as cocaine, whereas you can only get pyschologically addicted to weed (you can get pyschologically addicted to anything)

keen · 10-05-2008 06:24PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

The same? No. I didn't say they were the same. However, one might be a waster with no job, drained of all motivation and living a shít life just smoking weed all day, whereas the other one might be a waster with doing nothing with thier life but trying to get their next fix. Of course both might be healthy individuals, having taken their respecitve drugs in moderation.

The government classes drugs according to whatever agenda they're trying to push, not by effects or potential harm.

As far as I'm concerned, weed is no more or less harmful than any other commonly used recreational drug. Just because you can't overdose on it doesn't mean it's inherently less harmful than any other drug.

Am I missing something here, you believe weed is on par with coke e and acid in terms of how harmful it is?

I'm saying that's not true based on how toxic the drug is, weed isn't as bad for you as coke e or acid that's a fact not an opinion.

Class A's are classed that way because they are believed to do the most harm not because of a certain agenda.

joeybloggs · 10-05-2008 06:56PM

joeybloggs wrote: »

For da bhoys who wants to come an support da cause of baitin da **** into the hippi's, We are meeting in da big gardin of rememberance tomorrow at 2.25 PM , not the big posh wan with da lake, da other wan near Berties gaf. Bring pipes, knifes anything you can get your hands on, hoping for a good turnout and good support. Maybe even convince some people to support our troubles of keeping these hippi's down.

S'later lads.

Alrite boys well done today.There was only one hippi lad there but we gave him a good chase.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIQz6YcFgQ4

Phaetonman · 10-05-2008 07:05PM

Class A's are classed that way because they are believed to do the most harm not because of a certain agenda.

Stick this up your arse and smoke it.

Governement drug classifications are meaningless crap.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5230006.stm#drugs

keen · 10-05-2008 07:19PM

Phaetonman wrote: »

Stick this up your arse and smoke it.

Governement drug classifications are meaningless crap.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5230006.stm#drugs

That's a two year old article you have there.

I don't agree with a lot of the classifactions, what I'm saying is that goverment class them in order of what they believe to be the most harmful. Note I used the word "they" there, this isn't my opinion.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/drugs-law/Class-a-b-c/

I'd say my link is more accurate nowa days.

Class A, B and C drugs are termed as controlled substances under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, with Class A being those considered most harmful

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 07:21PM

keen wrote: »

Am I missing something here, you believe weed is on par with coke e and acid in terms of how harmful it is?

I'm saying that's not true based on how toxic the drug is, weed isn't as bad for you as coke e or acid that's a fact not an opinion.

If you're basing harmfulness on toxicity no matter how much is ingested, then weed is no worse than acid.
If you're basing harmfulness on toxicity at a sensible dose, then weed is no more harmful than acid, E or heroin.

However, toxicity isn't the be all and end all of harmfulness.

If you base harmfulness on addiction potential, then weed is more harmful than E or acid.
If you base harmfulness on long term impact of moderate usage (not taking addiction potential into account) then weed is probably no more harmful than E, acid, coke or heroin.
If you base harmfulness on long term impact of heavy usage, then it's really debatable. Long term, heavy use of any drug is generally quite harmful.

Weed isn't particularly harmful IMO, but it's not so harmless as to be considered much less harmful than any other illegal drug.

keen wrote: »

Class A's are classed that way because they are believed to do the most harm not because of a certain agenda.

Cannabis was upgraded to a class B in Britain the other day despite the government's advisory board on drugs, consisting of scientists, almost unanimously voting to keep it class C. In the US cannabis is schedule 1.

A group of reputable scientists published this study in Britain 2 years ago. See cannabis? Yup, it's 6 places above ecstasy and 2 places above acid. Now I know one can't base their entire opinion on one study, but what this shows is that cannabis is not universally considered to be less harmful than all other commonly used recreational drugs, and that governments' classifcation systems bear little relation to scientific or medical fact.

Phaetonman · 10-05-2008 07:26PM

That's a two year old article you have there.

So what its still valid. These are independant scientists who made this study and not some government body.

Your link is rubbish.

keen · 10-05-2008 07:32PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

If you're basing harmfulness on toxicity no matter how much is ingested, then weed is no worse than acid.
If you're basing harmfulness on toxicity at a sensible dose, then weed is no more harmful than acid, E or heroin.

However, toxicity isn't the be all and end all of harmfulness.

If you base harmfulness on addiction potential, then weed is more harmful than E or acid.
If you base harmfulness on long term impact of moderate usage (not taking addiction potential into account) then weed is probably no more harmful than E, acid, coke or heroin.
If you base harmfulness on long term impact of heavy usage, then it's really debatable.

Weed isn't particularly harmful IMO, but it's not so harmless as to be considered much less harmful than any other illegal drug.

Cannabis was upgraded to a class B in Britain the other day despite the government's advisory board on drugs, consisting of scientists, almost unanimously voting to keep it class C. In the US cannabis is schedule 1.

A group of reputable scientists published this study in Britain 2 years ago. See cannabis? Yup, it's 6 places above ecstasy and 2 places above acid. Now I know one can't base their entire opinion on one study, but what this shows is that cannabis is not universally considered to be less harmful than all other commonly used recreational drugs, and that governments' classifcation systems bear little relation to scientific or medical fact.

Over the space of year:

Smoke weed at the weekend - will do little or no harm.

Snort coke at the weekend - potential to cause a lot of harm

That's what I'm comparing how harmful a drug is based on how people acutally take drugs and what I've seen around me. I've seen coke destroy people within a year, I've seen people smoke cannabis for years and live a happy life.

Don't get me wrong I don't believe cannabis causes no harm at all, but I don't think it can be compared to coke and e in terms of how harmful it is.

I've said already that I don't agree with the way the goverments class a lot of drugs my point was that all drugs don't have the potental to cause the same amount of harm.

Phaetonman · 10-05-2008 07:36PM

But I've just shown you a study by scientists which rate ecstacy as being less harmfull to society than marijuana. So you are wrong.

And cocaine is fairly bad I won't debate you there. At the same time you can keep up a mild enough weekend habit for years much like weed and not see much harm.

Scubadevils · 10-05-2008 07:41PM

The other aspect also is when snorting coke or popping an E, God only knows what you are actually taking... at least with a lot of good home-grown about these days you do know you are smoking just grass (well, maybe some pesticides too). Soap bar is another story obviously.

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 07:45PM

keen wrote: »

Snort coke at the weekend - potential to cause a lot of harm

What kind of harm?

keen wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I don't believe cannabis causes no harm at all, but I don't think it can be compared to coke and e in terms of how harmful it is.

Coke is addictive and potentially lethal when mixed with alcohol, so I'll give you that, but E? What's so harmful about E?

keen · 10-05-2008 07:53PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What kind of harm?

Coke is addictive and potentially lethal when mixed with alcohol, so I'll give you that, but E? What's so harmful about E?

Harm such as heart palpitations, extreme paranoia, depression sever anxiety. I've seen it all first hand.

Have you ever seen anyone on a Monday moring after taking a few e's on a Friday and Saturday? Ever hear of a comedown? Sure, if you take an E in a controlled enviroment once, you'll be fine but this isn't how people use drugs.

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 08:27PM

keen wrote: »

Harm such as heart palpitations, extreme paranoia, depression sever anxiety.

Lol, all of those are also attributable to smoking too much weed.

keen wrote: »

Have you ever seen anyone on a Monday moring after taking a few e's on a Friday and Saturday? Ever hear of a comedown? Sure, if you take an E in a controlled enviroment once, you'll be fine but this isn't how people use drugs.

An E comedown isn't exactly harmful though, and only really bad if you've totally overdone it. And, to draw a contrast, alcohol hangovers are generally much worse. After a night of smoking weed you feel groggy the next day too.

keen · 10-05-2008 08:39PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Lol, all of those are also attributable to smoking too much weed.

An E comedown isn't exactly harmful though, and only really bad if you've totally overdone it. And, to draw a contrast, alcohol hangovers are generally much worse. After a night of smoking weed you feel groggy the next day too.

Stop being pedantic man, I've seen an old friend of mine being hospitalized due to coke, heart nearly pumping out of her chest resulting in her having an irregular heartbeat for days. Weed causes mild paranoia when stoned once it weres off you fine the paranoia continues with coke.

Serotonin depletion is lot more harmful then a hang over or feeling croggy after a nights smoking.
An E comedown is due to your brain being drained of serotonin that is harmful.

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 08:58PM

keen wrote: »

Stop being pedantic man, I've seen an old friend of mine being hospitalized due to coke, heart nearly pumping out of her chest resulting in her having an iregual heartbeat for days. Weed causes mild paranoia when stoned once it weres off you fine the paranoia continues with coke.

Ah, I'm not saying coke is less harmful than weed, but come on, but it's not uncommon for someone to freak out on weed, a little more than mild paranoia.

keen wrote: »

Serotonin depletion is lot more harmful then a hang over or feeling croggy after a nights smoking.
An E comedown is due to your brain being drained of serotonin that is harmful.

Serotonin is replenished naturally. Having temporarily low serotonin levels might not feel nice, but it's not harmful.

keen · 10-05-2008 09:22PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Ah, I'm not saying coke is less harmful than weed, but come on, but it's not uncommon for someone to freak out on weed, a little more than mild paranoia.

Serotonin is replenished naturally. Having temporarily low serotonin levels might not feel nice, but it's not harmful.

tbh I've only ever seen people get the greenys on weed, not saying your lying or anything just haven't seen it myself.

Kooli · 10-05-2008 09:28PM

The focus on fatalaties takes away focus from mental health issues, which are a pretty big deal I reckon.

Marijuana increases the risk of psychosis, as well as having detrimental effects on learning and memory.

Psychosis? That is scary stuff, and it doesn't sound 'harmless' to me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 10-05-2008 09:31PM

the detrimental effects on learning and memory go away if you stop smoking, as for the psychosis? Just a modern take on the 'it takes over your soul' argument.

keen · 10-05-2008 09:31PM

Kooli wrote: »

The focus on fatalaties takes away focus from mental health issues, which are a pretty big deal I reckon.

Marijuana increases the risk of psychosis, as well as having detrimental effects on learning and memory.

Psychosis? That is scary stuff, and it doesn't sound 'harmless' to me.

Again, no concrete evidence what so ever to prove your statements.

I'm not living in denial just there's no proof to what your saying, also I can learn pretty well and my memory is spot on.

herbieflowers · 10-05-2008 09:39PM

Hurray, another drug "debate", it's been so long!

Kooli · 10-05-2008 10:16PM

No evidence?

Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry: "Despite the heterogeneity of methods and definitions of psychosis, there is reasonably consistent evidence from prospective studies that frequent cannabis use predicts an increased risk of psychotic symptoms and psychosis that is not explained by potential confounders such as other drug use."

Journal of Psychiatric Intensive Care: "cannabis use potentially leads to psychosis in vulnerable people, especially if started in adolescence"

I could quote more, but why bother? Fair enough if you want to say you don't BELIEVE the evidence, just don't say that there is none.

Dev 17 · 10-05-2008 10:36PM

Anyone got pictures of this years march?
How many people attended?

-Dev

Irishcrx · 10-05-2008 10:53PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I saw the youtube videos of last year. Needless to say, I wont be attending.

No it's fúcking not. This is what písses me off about dumbass stoners. You think that weed is this harmless, wonderful substance with no downside to it and that other drugs are totally different to it. Firstly, you do do drugs if you do weed and alcohol. And secondly, what evidence do you have to say that weed is so less harmful than E, acid, coke etc. that it should be legalised and they shouldn't? As far as I'm concerned, weed is no more or less harmful than any other commonly used recreational drug. Just because you can't overdose on it doesn't mean it's inherently less harmful than any other drug.

All that said, drugs fascinate me and I read about them constantly and take them on occasion. I do believe in their legalisation, but not the exclusive legalisation of weed.

And it's people like you who support hard drugs that are the problem, legalize the least harmfull and next they'll be asking to legalize coke, what reason do I have to say marijuana is any less harmfull how about nobody has ever died from taking it...ever, how about the guy who took E and took his own eyeballs out, or acid staying in your system so long you can have random flash backs for years , or people Overdosing on coke...there's a start anyway.

JC 2K3 · 10-05-2008 11:12PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

how about the guy who took E and took his own eyeballs out

If that actually happened then it wasn't MDMA and wouldn't have happened if MDMA was legal and regulated since the person taking it would be sure they were actually taking MDMA.

Irishcrx wrote: »

acid staying in your system so long you can have random flash backs for years

That's a myth.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_278.html (last paragraph)

Irishcrx wrote: »

what reason do I have to say marijuana is any less harmfull how about nobody has ever died from taking it...ever.

What about all those people with mental illness which was brought upon by smoking marijuana?

Fremen · 10-05-2008 11:29PM

Kooli wrote: »

No evidence?

Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry: "Despite the heterogeneity of methods and definitions of psychosis, there is reasonably consistent evidence from prospective studies that frequent cannabis use predicts an increased risk of psychotic symptoms and psychosis that is not explained by potential confounders such as other drug use."

Journal of Psychiatric Intensive Care: "cannabis use potentially leads to psychosis in vulnerable people, especially if started in adolescence"

I could quote more, but why bother? Fair enough if you want to say you don't BELIEVE the evidence, just don't say that there is none.

Twin studies have shown that military training can induce schizophrenia (this was the best link I could find at short notice which documents the fact).

Should we ban military training?

I think it really depends on what proportion of the population are suceptible. Penicillin has the potential to harm a decent fraction of the population. Hell, even peanuts can be deadly.

KERPAL · 10-05-2008 11:35PM

Personally I think you pathetic stoner **** are just as bad as the Coke addict or the Heroin one. You know the marijuana will **** you up but you decide not to conform with society cause you are more than likely lazy socialist pricks.
From first hand experience, a relative of mine has been in and out of mental hospitals for the last 4 years because of smoking weed.

Pity the Po didnt take youse down. Your lucky your in such an on the fence country, in a more assertive state, youse would get the ****e kicked out of you by the police and deservedly so.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 10-05-2008 11:37PM

rofl

we've got an intellect here

KERPAL · 10-05-2008 11:41PM

rofl

we have another sad nerd, almost 10,000 posts to his/her name. Sort yourself out you sad prick.

some of what i said may be complete crap and spur of the moment stuff
But one thing is a fact.
That my uncle has been in and out of mental hospitals the last 4 years as i said, because of a weed problem.
So why dont u "rofl" to that

Marijuana March tomorrow.

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