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United Ireland Poll

2456711

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I expected such a response from you.

    No. And religion is irrelevant, since you're throwing out clichés. Those who object it would be the "loyalists/unionists" (of which by the way, only 10% of the entire population of the North actually fully object to Irish Unity).

    I would look for a plan of integration, into a multi-cultural Ireland. Perhaps even a compromise with Britain, for those who wish to declare themselves as British would still be entitled to a British passport. Loyalists could be integrated into a more rounded Irish Government, which would cater to the needs of the loyalists population.

    I'm certainly not going to turn my back on the majority of people who want Irish Unity, in favour of those who do not.

    The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    snyper wrote: »
    Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

    The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown. Its part of the United Kingdom, by voting Yes to a united Ireland you are simply looking for more problems for the noth.

    I dont think we can look into the past to try and see a future

    *sigh*



    backward thinking? how short is your memory,it's not easy to forget for people who have had relations,neighbours and friends die for the struggle.irish people had to endure torture,internment and were treated like animals. the british presence was forced upon us, and i for one will always appose imperialism.

    how do we know where we are going if we don't know where we have been?

    bloody sunday in 1972? not exactly centuries ago isit,and the families of 14 people should just forget how their family members were murdered in cold blood by a force that shouldn't be there...same goes to the poster i addressed a second ag,should the families of these people get a life?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Redpunto


    Nope, cut it off and stick it on the top of Scotland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,663 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Do the people in the north get a vote or is this just a 26 county thing?

    And if ever a poll was scraming out for an atari jag option, THIS is it

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    why do people look differently on ''northerners''.they seem to almost fear them.many of us who have relations in the 6 counties know there is no difference,we are irish.just listen to the media,be the sheep ye are and don't appose anything.just live out your lives and never challenge authority,they are probably wrong but sure,its not worth the hassle theres something good on tv


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

    Yes of course I include the South. Why wouldn't I? A foreign British empire can dictate what happens there, muting the voice of the nationalist population of the North - and we can't have a say in it?

    We have every right to have a say what happens here. Who speaks for the nationalist population when the loyalist's veto anything relevant to them? This is where a more balanced united Ireland would come into play.

    Maybe it's fine and well for a foreign empire to setup camp anywhere in the world and dictate what happens to it to you, but it's not to me. That's where we differ. It's nothing to do with juvenile prejudices. I'm a 25 year old, who's experience enough in life to make decisions based on my own opinion and not some propagandist view on things.

    I believe that Irish Unity is right and just. I believe that allowing Britain to control what happens in a foreign state, when it's very own people don't want it in the first place is unjust. I believe in protecting the rights of our very own people who would be saddened to see you turn your back on them. But it's much easier to be passive, isn't it? Afterall, if it doesn't effect you when you wake up in the morning - then why bother, right?

    You stay passive, and I'll be active. We we will continue to live out our existence this way. I'll accept your way of life. You accept mine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

    so it's ok for britain to pick and choose what countries they want and we should let them have it...if they wanted the south you'd probably let them have it too? if you want to be english so much just move there:D

    and a second ago you didnt care,now you have an opinion....now under your own opinion you should get a life:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess, I'm going to message you privately about your posts.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Dudess wrote: »
    I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.

    Complacency?

    What do you want?? Us to storm the border???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Well even to just get passionate would be enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 fastman


    Hell yes ! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    snyper wrote: »
    Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

    The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown.

    I see . You regard a call for national sovereignty and democracy to be respected by Britian as backward , yet regard fealty from a national minority towards some superstitious medieval concept like a monarchy as progressive and believe that superstitutious loyalty to this foreign medieval institution should supercede any basis for Irish national democracy .
    Burned any witches lately ? Should leeches be introduced on the medical card ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    i feel very saddened that people on this board seem to regard the people in the 6 counties as outsiders.they are your fellow irishmen and women.you can see this during the all-ireland GAA and in rugby,when its sport they arent this scary race seperate of us.

    plus snyper,how dare you bring religion into this!!!the founder of republicanism was a protestant,that crushes your point right there.it was never a war about religion,you seem to know little,but keep kidding yourself


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Dudess wrote: »
    Well even to just get passionate would be enough.

    Passionate? Im fcuking boiling thinking about this.

    I didnt ask the question in an ideallic setting, it was in a realistic setting.. and wishing for a 32 county ireland is not workable without more blood being spilled.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    the economy wont collapse if ireland is united ffs...people survived when it was united and they will after it is.it is a myth.sure our economy will start declining in the not so distant future.

    snyper who initiated the blood shed?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    i feel very saddened that people on this board seem to regard the people in the 6 counties as outsiders.they are your fellow irishmen and women.you can see this during the all-ireland GAA and in rugby,when its sport they arent this scary race seperate of us.

    Ask the protestant majority how they feel about the GAA.

    as for wolfe tone being protestant.. good for him.

    But the Unionist people up there are Protestant and that is a major part of their identity.. so it does matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    who initiated the blood shed?

    The Pope when he ordered Henry II in to civilise us AFAIK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Dudess wrote: »
    I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.
    Dudess wrote: »
    Well even to just get passionate would be enough.
    Things will be bad enough without the North dragging us down. Let Britain support them. Bring back that biggot website runner to get his views.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 kildare paddy


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    why do people look differently on ''northerners''.they seem to almost fear them.many of us who have relations in the 6 counties know there is no difference,we are irish.just listen to the media,be the sheep ye are and don't appose anything.just live out your lives and never challenge authority,they are probably wrong but sure,its not worth the hassle theres something good on tv
    they wouldnt know that all these west brits are looking at RTE ,BBC so they wouldnt have a clue what is going on up in the north of ireland. i voted yeah by the way and am sickened at some comments! the north is part of our country and heritage and irish people up north should be treated as our own


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    i despise the GAA,whats your point. yes the majority of unionists are protestant,i'm not asking to give it up like,its an integral part of peoples culture and should be respected.but religion has nothing to do with the struggle!there are catholic unionists and protestant republicans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair?

    Lichtenstein isnt in Ireland , the occupied 6 counties are. And almost half of its residents are part of the "we" your on about . Your analogy is completely ridiculous . By your logic any country with immigrants on our territory could annexe a part of it on the basis citizens who claim geneological loyalty to them make up the majority in any given area , no matter how small or unviable a statelet would be . The occupied area is based on a simple and blatant sectarian gerrymander in order to violate Irish democracy and sovereignty . That is deeply unfair by any definition and not based upon any democratic principle .
    What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be.

    this is a samll island , and introducing the principle that the Irish people as a whole and the Irish nation as a whole have no right to national sovereignty and national self determination affects everyone on the island . As does conflict .
    Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all,

    the fact there is a current lull in the conflict does not mean there will be an end to conflict . The root cause of the confliict is the same as it always has been . That root cause has not been addressed and anyone who nelieves pretending that it has been or that it will just go away is deeply ignorant , or an idiot to use your terminology
    and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

    It could be argued that anyone making a post firstly to point out they dont care about the issue , and then making another even lengthier one in which they claim that part of Ireland isnt ireland , its people not Irish , comparing them to the residents of Lichtenstein etc has some juvenile prejudices of their own to deal with .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ross_Mahon


    Ive nothing against catholics/protestants, i say just unite. They should give up their childish beliefs and move on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Let's re-take the 6 counties of the North, but let's give up 6 counties we are currently saddled with....

    Namely - Cork, Limerick, Meath, Westmeath, Offaly and Cavan - the weakest links.

    :pac:

    I think you will agree that we would be far better off.
    These counties will be turned into lakes, for all of us to enjoy.

    Edit: Picture added

    Peoples living in Meath, Westmeath and Offaly will be relocated to other counties, probably Sligo and Leitrim.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    It would be a nice thing to have, it would close a 900 year old english-controlled book that ireland has suffered, but thinking for real, even little things like having to change currency to the euro, would be a big upset for NI to go with, as it would cut off the links with britain straight away, which is what their economy currently depends on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    oo please tell us more,you seem quite the intellect:D

    and what should people believe in?you are spitting on every irish person who gave their life for irish unity and a socialist republic. somehow i doubt you have the bravery and intelligence and ''ball's'' of many volunteers over the year.go ahead and live out your meaningless existence and let injustice spread across the world.sure why would iraqi's or palestinians care,they should all get a life...i salute you:cool:

    he who would die for nothing is not fit to live - martin luther king jr

    oo wait you'd probably die for a nice new '08 car,i forgot

    sure we should all just go out an get drunk and work a job we hate for stuff we dont need,thats really living i tell ya

    How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
    I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

    I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

    And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 kildare paddy


    snyper wrote: »
    Ask the protestant majority how they feel about the GAA.

    as for wolfe tone being protestant.. good for him.

    But the Unionist people up there are Protestant and that is a major part of their identity.. so it does matter.
    religion has nothing got to do with the war in ireland it suited the british to call it a religious war!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation



    Lichtenstein isnt in Ireland , the occupied 6 counties are. And almost half of its residents are part of the "we" your on about . Your analogy is completely ridiculous . By your logic any country with immigrants on our territory could annexe a part of it on the basis citizens who claim geneological loyalty to them make up the majority in any given area , no matter how small or unviable a statelet would be . The occupied area is based on a simple and blatant sectarian gerrymander in order to violate Irish democracy and sovereignty . That is deeply unfair by any definition and not based upon any democratic principle .



    this is a samll island , and introducing the principle that the Irish people as a whole and the Irish nation as a whole have no right to national sovereignty and national self determination affects everyone on the island . As does conflict .



    the fact there is a current lull in the conflict does not mean there will be an end to conflict . The root cause of the confliict is the same as it always has been . That root cause has not been addressed and anyone who nelieves pretending that it has been or that it will just go away is deeply ignorant , or an idiot to use your terminology



    It could be argued that anyone making a post firstly to point out they dont care about the issue , and then making another even lengthier one in which they claim that part of Ireland isnt ireland , its people not Irish , comparing them to the residents of Lichtenstein etc has some juvenile prejudices of their own to deal with .

    Yes, I'm juvenilely prejudiced against people with juvenile prejudices. It's the only way to relate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    snyper wrote: »
    Passionate? Im fcuking boiling thinking about this.

    I didnt ask the question in an ideallic setting, it was in a realistic setting.. and wishing for a 32 county ireland is not workable without more blood being spilled.

    whos going to spill blood in your opinion ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    I think an independent state would be better.

    But in all seriousness lads, we've given this whole Dublin based thing a go for 86 years now, I think we should head back to London tbh. :pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    To be honest, my heart says yes, but my head says no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore

    I'd like to address this point before you try to stereotype Republicans to fit whatever view you would have them to be.

    As a person, I donate to many charities that deal with poverty and hunger. I try to educate myself on alot of issues across the world. The majority of Republicans I have met through the years are infact very active about these very same issues, namely due to being passionate and vocal about areas that they disagree with.

    So please, stop trying to stereotype us with things like "the likes of you". You've never met me, or Rossi and don't know us both from Adam.

    We just so happen to care about the current occupation of the North. And things are not as cosy up there as you would want us to believe. Like I have already pointed out, areas of interests to the nationalists have already been vetoed out, such as the Irish language act. Republicans and Nationalists in general are often harassed by the PSNI, even today. Just a few days ago a group was advised that erecting a tricolour was illegal, and when they asked the PSNI where in the law it was stated, they could not answer them. Where is their culture and rights being respected? This is one of many things that you do not see or the almighty RTE does not portray of the North. I see and hear these things all the time while active in Republicanism. You should try keep your eyes opened and stop swallowing the propaganda you may be sometimes fed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 kildare paddy


    i see people are happy having the british army using ireland as a training ground:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
    I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

    I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

    And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.

    yes go stop world hunger then,how very righteous of you.what do you do for this?you live in a country that exploits and oppresses 3rd world countries?i am a republican socialist not just a nationalist.ireland rapes many third world countries and is better off because of it.yet what do you do to oppose this?have you not died for it yet as you suggested you would...im an active member of a socialist group trying to stop this,what are you? a self-righteous hypocrite it seems.when are you planning to die for world hunger?clown


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    "Occupation of the north"

    Will you get over yourself!

    The people in the north have a stronger economy and the NHS.

    If it came to a vote in the six counties I would hazard a guess that the majority vote would be to stay as part of the UK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I'd like to address this point before you try to stereotype Republicans to fit whatever view you would have them to be.

    As a person, I donate to many charities that deal with poverty and hunger. I try to educate myself on alot of issues across the world. The majority of Republicans I have met through the years are infact very active about these very same issues, namely due to being passionate and vocal about areas that they disagree with.

    So please, stop trying to stereotype us with things like "the likes of you". You've never met me, or Rossi and don't know us both from Adam.

    We just so happen to care about the current occupation of the North. And things are not as cosy up there as you would want us to believe. Like I have already pointed out, areas of interests to the nationalists have already been vetoed out, such as the Irish language act. Republicans and Nationalists in general are often harassed by the PSNI, even today. Just a few days ago a group was advised that erecting a tricolour was illegal, and when they asked the PSNI where in the law it was stated, they could not answer them. This is one of many things that you do not see or the almighty RTE does not portray of the North. I see and hear these things all the time while active in Republicanism. You should try keep your eyes opened and stop swallowing the propaganda you may be sometimes fed.

    I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Rossi who very clearly implied that the only possible reason I couldn't give a toss about who the north belonged to as long as there was peace was beacuse I was lazy and selfish. He made assumptions about me which told me all I needed about him to put him in with "the likes of you", you were not included in that category (I also just love that phrase lol).

    Things may not be perfect up north, but they're damn near enough. and nothing can justify stirring up trouble again. The power sharing ensures both sides have outlets for any grievances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
    I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

    I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

    And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.


    so you do care now ? and youd swear the Irish invaded england the way your carrying on , like the people occupied by Britian were the aggressors. It appears to me your of the belief that as long as foreign occupiers are prepared to feed you and treat you well one should not get upset with people occupying ones country against your will . National self determination is not important in your opinion. And Im wholly unaware of any aspect of our national culture which regards resisting occupation as murder , and then promotes a criminal act . So it appears that far from disinterest you are actually quite interested and have adopted the British agenda that resisting British rule in Ireland was murder , an act of criminality . Thankfully the vast majority of people in this country and indeed the world which suffered from British colonialism would regard your view as deeply biased nonsense .
    The only sheep I know of who died for Ireland were the fools led off by then nose to the Somme and Gallipoli in British uniforms . Anyone else was deeply unpopular , demonised by the church and media , denounced from the pulpit ,excommunicated etc . They became popular retrospectively but at the time most people were generally too cowed to help them .

    But anyway , thankyou for clearing up the misunderstanding from your first post in which you described yourself as a disinterested party . Obviously that wasnt the case .


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Rossi who very clearly implied that the only possible reason I couldn't give a toss about who the north belonged to as long as there was peace was beacuse I was lazy and selfish. He made assumptions about me which told me all I needed about him to put him in with "the likes of you", you were not included in that category (I also just love that phrase lol).

    Things may not be perfect up north, but they're damn near enough. and nothing can justify stirring up trouble again. The power sharing ensures both sides have outlets for any grievances.

    the joint administring of British rule ensures only that sectariainsim becomes institutionalised , normalised and managed . And therefore permanent . If Britian wasnt in the north thered be no trouble . What you are advocating here is that people should submit to the agenda Britian has decided will be this countrys future and not question it . Otherwise the true nature of British rule in Ireland and what it entails might come to the surface again . Thats not a very progressive or democratic view in my opinion . It promotes a deeply ingrained culture of servility and low expectations .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    yes go stop world hunger then,how very righteous of you.what do you do for this?you live in a country that exploits and oppresses 3rd world countries?i am a republican socialist not just a nationalist.ireland rapes many third world countries and is better off because of it.yet what do you do to oppose this?have you not died for it yet as you suggested you would...im an active member of a socialist group trying to stop this,what are you? a self-righteous hypocrite it seems.when are you planning to die for world hunger?clown

    I wasn't suggesting I'm great for giving a toss about world starvation, I was just refuting your suggestion that apathy towards the north can only stem from selfishness and ingratitude.

    And what good would me killing myself about it do? Anymore than you killing yourself for Northern Ireland joining the republic. That's just silly logic


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  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger



    Yes, I'm juvenilely prejudiced .

    id agree with that bit anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Rossi who very clearly implied that the only possible reason I couldn't give a toss about who the north belonged to as long as there was peace was beacuse I was lazy and selfish. He made assumptions about me which told me all I needed about him to put him in with "the likes of you", you were not included in that category (I also just love that phrase lol).

    Things may not be perfect up north, but they're damn near enough. and nothing can justify stirring up trouble again. The power sharing ensures both sides have outlets for any grievances.

    Thank you for highlighting that, but I took exception to the "likes of you" comment.. To which both Rossi and I are Republicans. he is speaking from his heart, and it's hard to portray yourself properly on a public forum without getting a little heated and losing controlm, but I understand where he is coming from. Rossi is also a socialist, which in theory - has a main priority of social equality for the people and ending injustices in the social sector across the world. I assure you, his intentions are definitely genuine.

    The power sharing isn't perfect, like I already outlined - the Loyalist veto controls what really happens. Power sharing has always been one step on the path of Unity. And the greater Republican movement absolutely 100% backs peaceful Unity of Ireland.

    I understand that a fully comprehensive plan will have to be devised for integration, but I believe it must be done. I have already outlined in numerous posts my points as to why I want it so, so I won't repeat myself.

    I commend that you care about other problems across the world, but you should also look a little closer to home. It is entirely your decision and I respect that. I can see that we have differences of opinion. You feel that the North is now stable enough to go on it's own and respects both cultures, I feel this is not an accurate assessment of the current situation in the North.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Because it's apart of Ireland.
    No no, it's part of the UK now and has been for quite a while.

    Do you see why?
    dlofnep wrote:
    It's an integral part of our history and culture, only recently divided. It is a small land mass and makes no sense whatsoever being seperated.

    Well, that's life. I'd suggest you stop living in the past. Also, how is it a part of our culture/history? How does the North have any impact on our culture? Absolute bullshít.
    dlofnep wrote:
    Unity on this Island, where everyone is accepted and treated equal makes sense. Under current British administration, the loyalist big wigs can flex their might and veto out areas of importance to Irish people like the Irish Language Act.. This would be respected in a United Ireland.

    Makes sense? No it does not. You're living in a dream if you think it'll ever happen that way, without thousands more people dying over it.

    The Protestants have as much of a right to that land as those claiming to be "Irish" at the moment.
    dlofnep wrote:
    But if anything, we should do it because thousands of people on this Island have given up their life for it's Unity and Freedom. You're not being asked for your life, just for a nod of the head.

    Lol, I suppose you're an avid fan of the IRA/Sinn Fein, right?
    Rossibaby wrote: »
    because not everyone values money above all else? im sure you're in total support of the way countries like the USA and ourselves rape third world countries and leaves them in poverty while selling their products at a highly increased price to overpay general labour forces and make sure more people can afford 40" lcd's. also disregard the 300,000 people who live as under class citizens in ireland,sure as long as your grand yourself who cares

    Lol.


    Snyper: Good job bringing out the IRA/Sinn Fein supporters on boards :p

    The North doesn't cause us any hassle as is, it really only causes England hassle, and that's the way it should stay. We as a country don't need the burden/costs that would be incurred by "Uniting" Ireland. There's no benefits to it, oh so a few who were born in a British country think they're Irish 'cause it's on the same island might get to actually be Irish, but there's a bunch of protestants up there who've as much of a right to the place who'd be extremely píssed off about it. As is, things are working pretty smoothly and should be kept that way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Cunny-Funt


    I'm disgusted at the attitude of some posters here.

    I'd vote yes, of course I would, I'm Irish. Ireland belongs to the Irish. Closure would be nice.

    Why does everyone assume war would break out.....


    Oh and I'm not an IRA or Sinn Fein supporter...

    Being pro irish does not = being anti british ffs


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kreuzberger


    "
    Occupation of the north"

    Will you get over yourself!

    The north is in Irland . Britian is in Britian . Britian occupies part of the Irish national territory , therefore referring to it as the occupation is simply describing what it is .
    The people in the north have a stronger economy and the NHS.

    the people in the north have a basket case of an economy wholly dependent on being propped up by British subventions , ie its completely artificial
    If it came to a vote in the six counties I would hazard a guess that the majority vote would be to stay as part of the UK.

    duuuhhh..that might be the reason why Britian just drew an arbitrary line around the biggest concentration of unionists it could find on the island . Its called a gerrymander . Thats also why Britian refused to recognise the votes of the Irish people as a nation and drew the line in the first place .
    Britian hazards a guess that if they did permit national democracy then the majority of the nation would vote for total independence from foreign rule .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    so you do care now ? and youd swear the Irish invaded england the way your carrying on , like the people occupied by Britian were the aggressors. It appears to me your of the belief that as long as foreign occupiers are prepared to feed you and treat you well one should not get upset with people occupying ones country against your will . National self determination is not important in your opinion. And Im wholly unaware of any aspect of our national culture which regards resisting occupation as murder , and then promotes a criminal act . So it appears that far from disinterest you are actually quite interested and have adopted the British agenda that resisting British rule in Ireland was murder , an act of criminality . Thankfully the vast majority of people in this country and indeed the world which suffered from British colonialism would regard your view as deeply biased nonsense .
    The only sheep I know of who died for Ireland were the fools led off by then nose to the Somme and Gallipoli in British uniforms . Anyone else was deeply unpopular , demonised by the church and media , denounced from the pulpit ,excommunicated etc . They became popular retrospectively but at the time most people were generally too cowed to help them .

    But anyway , thankyou for clearing up the misunderstanding from your first post in which you described yourself as a disinterested party . Obviously that wasnt the case .

    My first post stated that I didn't care about who the north belonged to, but that I did care that many people promoted disharmony as a result of their caring about it. I haven't shifted from that position.

    And to bring up the old argument, where do you draw the line at redistributing land from ancient invasions? If this justified reshaping the world, things would descend into absolute chaos. Your national self determinism line does not work because at the time when Britain invaded Ireland Ireland was not a nation, just an island. And quite apart from how arbitrary it is, I don't even care about the having a claim to the land argument, it should pale next to practicalities.
    Decidng not to kill people is moral issue, and sometimes involves turning the other cheek. It is not acceptable to kill people in order to change a government unless you feel your freedom to live freely is being imposed upon. This extends to you having responsibility not to act if you can reasonably suppose that actions you take to change a goverment may lead to provoking murderers on the other side. Yes, they are scum, but ultimately the care for human life should stop you from provoking them when the gains involved are negligable.
    This is the situation in the north today. People have freedoms that are nearly perfect (IMO, I respect that some may disagree), and that any changes that are needed can be achieved peacefully without seismic upheaval. Things are the best they can be at the moment, there is no justification for pushing for change imo.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    rb_ie wrote: »
    No no, it's part of the UK now and has been for quite a while.

    Apart of a UK that does not want it, where the culture of the Irish is not respected. Thanks for highlighting that.
    rb_ie wrote: »
    Well, that's life. I'd suggest you stop living in the past. Also, how is it a part of our culture/history? How does the North have any impact on our culture? Absolute bullshít.

    So according to you, the North has nothing to do with our history or culture. Very well.

    How does it impact on the culture of the people in the North? As I've outlined before, the culture of the Irish in the North is not respected.

    rb_ie wrote: »
    The Protestants have as much of a right to that land as those claiming to be "Irish" at the moment.

    I welcome them to more land, in an equal and united Ireland. Do the Irish not have a claim to Ireland? Obviously not in your eyes.

    rb_ie wrote: »
    Lol, I suppose you're an avid fan of the IRA/Sinn Fein, right?

    I'm a supporter of Sinn Féin. I am not a supporter of the IRA's attacks of civilians. I can see where you're trying to go with this. Label random_republican as the cliché war-monger. Unfortunately, I don't fit it for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    rb_ie wrote: »
    No no, it's part of the UK now and has been for quite a while.

    Do you see why?



    Well, that's life. I'd suggest you stop living in the past. Also, how is it a part of our culture/history? How does the North have any impact on our culture? Absolute bullshít.



    Makes sense? No it does not. You're living in a dream if you think it'll ever happen that way, without thousands more people dying over it.

    The Protestants have as much of a right to that land as those claiming to be "Irish" at the moment.



    Lol, I suppose you're an avid fan of the IRA/Sinn Fein, right?



    Lol.


    Snyper: Good job bringing out the IRA/Sinn Fein supporters on boards :p

    The North doesn't cause us any hassle as is, it really only causes England hassle, and that's the way it should stay. We as a country don't need the burden/costs that would be incurred by "Uniting" Ireland. There's no benefits to it, oh so a few who were born in a British country think they're Irish 'cause it's on the same island might get to actually be Irish, but there's a bunch of protestants up there who've as much of a right to the place who'd be extremely píssed off about it. As is, things are working pretty smoothly and should be kept that way.


    i'm not a sinn fein or pira supporter,they arent the only republican group you know,or do you know?im a socialist and how can injustice be removed when an imperial and oppressive force is in place?

    btw the RUC/PSNI the british police force has the worst human rights record for a police service since WWII.believe me british tyranny is still in the face of every nationalist living in the north,even if british soldiers arent shooting and interning innocent rrepublicans like they always did.

    i say again,why are you saying protestants have a right to the land?its not about religion.i dont believe in the catholic religion?or the protestant one?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    Should this be moved to political forum?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 kildare paddy


    Cunny-Funt wrote: »
    I'm disgusted at the attitude of some posters here.

    I'd vote yes, of course I would, I'm Irish. Ireland belongs to the Irish. Closure would be nice.

    Why does everyone assume war would break out.....


    Oh and I'm not an IRA or Sinn Fein supporter...

    Being pro irish does not = being anti british ffs
    jesus well at least this 1 is well educated:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    If it would mean they would accept the Euro and Irish laser cards, I'd be in favour. Also we could do with a goalscorer like David Healy.


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