United Ireland Poll

kreuzberger

Kold wrote: »

Kreuzberger, what exactly is your relationship to the north? Are you from there? Do you have family there? If not, I don't particularly see why you should care.

Im Irish and Im from Ireland , of which the north is part . If cork , Dublin or meath was occupied by Britain Id disagree with it too .

wheres your president from by the way ?

kreuzberger

javaboy wrote: »

By that logic, most of us shouldn't give a flying fcuk about Tibet/Burma/Sudan etc. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I can get on with enjoying the Olympics without feeling conflicted.

by his logic you shouldnt give a fcuk if the British army invaded the neighbouring county

which is pretty much for the case for about 5 southern counties

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

Im Irish and Im from Ireland , of which the north is part . If cork , Dublin or meath was occupied by Britain Id disagree with it too .

wheres your president from by the way ?

One day, you'll make a very good politician with answers like that!

Caoimhín

Does any right minded person from the Republic want to unite with the tattooed gorillas that were abusing little girls trying to get to school in the Ardoyne?

Rb

Be careful what you say lads, don't want to bring too much attention from the IRA on yourselves...

caoibhin

caoibhin wrote: »

Does any right minded person from the Republic want to unite with the tattooed gorillas that were abusing little girls trying to get to school in the Ardoyne?

In a word, no.
But there are many here who will take the north, baggage and all - without caring about the consequences!

Rb

Deleted User wrote: »

In a word, no.
But there are many here who will take the north, baggage and all - without caring about the consequences!

Lol yeah, let's screw up the Republic and it's economy for the good of a few people in 6 little counties.

kreuzberger

caoibhin wrote: »

Does any right minded person from the Republic want to unite with the tattooed gorillas that were abusing little girls trying to get to school in the Ardoyne?

such touching concern for the little Irish girls of ardoyne , yet such callous abandonemnt of them to a perpetuity of tatooed gorillas protecting the British way of life , and all in the one sentence .

well done

AlmightyCushion

kreuzberger wrote: »

such touching concern for the little Irish girls of ardoyne , yet such callous abandonemnt of them to a perpetuity of tatooed gorillas protecting the British way of life , and all in the one sentence .

But those gorillas aren't protecting the British way of life unless abusing little girls is a common British past time. They are expressing their small minded hatred. They would still act this way if they were British or Irish but it would just be directed at another group.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

tatooed gorillas protecting the British way of life , and all in the one sentence .

well done

They're thugs and you know it, don't matter what they claim to represent, they're still thugs only looking after their own self interest.

If someone told then they'd better dole & benefits from the republic, they'd soon change allegiance.

Don't confuse plain thuggery with nationalism!

thelordofcheese

kreuzberger wrote: »

it was working pretty well during the Feakle talks in the mid 70s . Do you remember what happened , being an expert on Irelands past ?

Yes, a single meeting over a weekend between terrorists and some protestant clergymen, and the upshot of this?
A 3 week or so long ceasefire.

One occasion doesn't erase the thousands of other times that any attempt at 'discussion' between the various factions in the north achieved nothing.

But keep on clutching at straws and believing that a united ireland would be anything other than a disaster.

Kold

javaboy wrote: »

By that logic, most of us shouldn't give a flying fcuk about Tibet/Burma/Sudan etc. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I can get on with enjoying the Olympics without feeling conflicted.

The happenings in the North are nothing like Tibet/Burma/Sudan.

kreuzberger

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

But those gorillas aren't protecting the British way of life unless abusing little girls is a common British past time. They are expressing their small minded hatred. They would still act this way if they were British or Irish but it would just be directed at another group.

of course they arent protecting the British way of life . That most definitely is not the British way of life , the British man and woman in the street were absolutely appalled . Even a conservative MP walked down the road with those children , more than any TDs did . I put it in italics to denote sarcasm .
But for those carrying it out , and we now know from the OLoan report and other investigations into British collusion with these scum , they not only believe they are protecting the British way of life by keeping their turf taig free but most of them were working for the British state too as agents for a very long time . Who do you think armed these people ? Who do you think was directing them the entire time ? Who do you think was turning a blind eye to their activities the entire time and sending them out to kill people to protect the British way of life in Ireland , the British border in Ireland ? The states intelligence services empoweredd these lumpen scum in the first place , they created this monster to prop up partition .
It isnt a British way of life being upheld by the border , only the artificial division of this country . Getting rid of it is a step towards civilisation .

kreuzberger

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

But those gorillas aren't protecting the British way of life unless abusing little girls is a common British past time. They are expressing their small minded hatred. They would still act this way if they were British or Irish but it would just be directed at another group.

they would simply not be capable of acting in this organised manner without a states military intelligence services propping them up . They could not whip up fears of catholic toddlers being a slippery slope to a united Ireland if they actually lived in one .

gcgirl

kreuzberger wrote: »

Im Irish and Im from Ireland , of which the north is part . If cork , Dublin or meath was occupied by Britain Id disagree with it too .

wheres your president from by the way ?

Cork is a seperate thing altogether as in the Peoples Republic Of Cork!!!

Plus The whole Healthcare system up North is way better than down here CF sufferers up there have a far better chance of living than down here !

kreuzberger

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yes, a single meeting over a weekend between terrorists and some protestant clergymen, and the upshot of this?
A 3 week or so long ceasefire.

yes , a ceasefire , disussions = positive . The break down of such talks was after the 77 coalition sent the fecking special branch in specifically to break the talks up . With a goovernemnt south of the border actively wrecking such talks , arresting people at gunpoint for having them its no wonder a ceasefire only lasted 3 weeks . ITt clearly wasnt talks which were useless , it was the governemnt wrecking them which was . A governemnt stacked with west brits .

One occasion doesn't erase the thousands of other times that any attempt at 'discussion' between the various factions in the north achieved nothing.

An occasion cruise OBrien , Fitzgerald and others deliberately wrecked by sending in the branch to arrest the people talking , causing absolute mayhem . That was absolute madness . They wrecked other talks as well aimed at getting a joint IRA nd loyalist statement calling for a British withdrawal . Cruise OBrien got up in the dail and announced those talks were taking place , again wrecking them just as those lunatics wrecked feakle .

But keep on clutching at straws and believing that a united ireland would be anything other than a disaster.

the people who caused disaster were the people who broke 2 sets of talks up very deliberately . The same people whose arguments you are parroting here . Discredited lunatics like Conor Cruise OBrien etc

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

of course they arent protecting the British way of life . That most definitely is not the British way of life , the British man and woman in the street were absolutely appalled . Even a conservative MP walked down the road with those children , more than any TDs did . I put it in italics to denote sarcasm .
But for those carrying it out , and we now know from the OLoan report and other investigations into British collusion with these scum , they not only believe they are protecting the British way of life by keeping their turf taig free but most of them were working for the British state too as agents for a very long time . Who do you think armed these people ? Who do you think was directing them the entire time ? Who do you think was turning a blind eye to their activities the entire time and sending them out to kill people to protect the British way of life in Ireland , the British border in Ireland ? The states intelligence services empoweredd these lumpen scum in the first place , they created this monster to prop up partition .
It isnt a British way of life being upheld by the border , only the artificial division of this country . Getting rid of it is a step towards civilisation .

You make out that this bunch of thugs were paid by the state, well most of them were unemployed and drawing the dole - yes the British taxpayers were paying them.
Who armed them you ask, sticks and bottles can be obtained anywhere and spit is self produced.

as for turning a blind eye - it was seen by the media and everyone that saw it - and the thugs were seen for what they are.

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

They're thugs and you know it, don't matter what they claim to represent, they're still thugs only looking after their own self interest.

If someone told then they'd better dole & benefits from the republic, they'd soon change allegiance.

Don't confuse plain thuggery with nationalism!

government armed and supported thugs . Dont confuse thuggery with spontaneity , dont confuse cops with law and order .

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

government armed and supported thugs . Dont confuse thuggery with spontaneity , dont confuse cops with law and order .

I don't.

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

You make out that this bunch of thugs were paid by the state, well most of them were unemployed and drawing the dole - yes the British taxpayers were paying them.

youll find most of them belong to an organisation led by British agents , armed by British agents working under the direction of British special branch and the British military intelligence services . The UDA . Which was a perfectly legal terrorist organisation until 1990 and they made the mistake of posting up the intelligence dossiers the British army was giving them on the walls and calling the media round to take phogrpahs which let the cat out of the bag and forced the British to declare tham an illegal terrorist organisation as opposed to a legal one .
They were also permitted to amass huge drug and extortion empires by virtue of their leaders immunity from proescution .

Who armed them you ask, sticks and bottles can be obtained anywhere and spit is self produced.

their direct influence in their community came from being armed and organised by the state and the amassing of perosnal wealth and physical power thanks to the state . They did not achieve that with saliva and bottles .

as for turning a blind eye - it was seen by the media and everyone that saw it - and the thugs were seen for what they are.

but werent rounded up and sent to jail . It went on for months .

kreuzberger

here DB . You havent commented upon the poll in quite a while , yet you were getting excited about it last night

kreuzberger

gcgirl wrote: »

Cork is a seperate thing altogether as in the Peoples Republic Of Cork!!!

well then , if someone invades you your on your own . Dont be asking my help

Plus The whole Healthcare system up North is way better than down here CF sufferers up there have a far better chance of living than down here

Its steadily getting worse from what ive heard . And it should be a rather simple matter of taking back the billions Bertie Ahern gave away with our oil and gas to tony oreilly and others and paying for a decent health service . Not being pushed around in our own country . Whats ours we should lay claim to , whthether territory or resources and stop being such a bunch of whiny whinging scaredy wimps . Its no wonder the catholic church walked all over people . Half the people on this board sound terrified .

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Right now just over 50% want a united Ireland and 37% say no.

Not exactly a united response!

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like the yes vote is slipping a bit
yes 47% no 39%

kreuzberger wrote: »

here DB . You havent commented upon the poll in quite a while , yet you were getting excited about it last night

Right now just over 50% want a united Ireland and 38% say no.

Not much change there, but as you can see it's not an overwhelming yes vote.

kreuzberger

so its lower than most newspaper polls but still a substantial majority in favour

and what do you think of the no arguments so far ? Do you agree with other guy that its all uneducated immigrant bashers , cuclchies etc as opposed to educated people responsible for this awful backwardness ? Or would you agree with me its just very easy to scare Irish people in general ? That we're a bit wimpy ?

Its as indicitive as any other voluntary poll could ever be, as the apothetic votes are never counted!
Its now Yes 49% no 38% non-voters ??%

I'd like to see what resault a referendum would provide.

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

Its as indicitive as any other voluntary poll could ever be, as the apothetic votes are never counted!
Its now Yes 49% no 38% non-voters ??%

I'd like to see what resault a referendum would provide.

well no , most pollls have the ayes in and around the 75% mark . Most , in fact all political paties have a united Ireland in their manifestoes .

But do you agree its right not to allow an All Ireland referendum ? surely with the combined unionist and west brit vote thatd be it over and done with .

its gone back up to 50 % . Must be another culchhie slipped in .

kreuzberger

Im of the opinion the increase in pro British attitudes south of the border is in direct corellation with the increase in the use of mens moisturising products.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

But do you agree its right not to allow an All Ireland referendum ? surely with the combined unionist and west brit vote thatd be it over and done with .

Not really as you are implying that the votes of another jurisdiction will override the votes in your jurisdiction.

There would be two seperate referendums either side of the border (no referendum in mainland UK).

One asking "Do you want the north (them) to join the republic" (or words to that effect)
and "Do you want Northern Ireland (us) to join the republic. (or words to that effect)

It would need a yes vote from both side for it to happen, otherwise the fears of other posters here of a unionist backlash would be realised.

thelordofcheese

kreuzberger wrote: »

yes , a ceasefire , disussions = positive . The break down of such talks was after the 77 coalition sent the fecking special branch in specifically to break the talks up . With a goovernemnt south of the border actively wrecking such talks , arresting people at gunpoint for having them its no wonder a ceasefire only lasted 3 weeks . ITt clearly wasnt talks which were useless , it was the governemnt wrecking them which was . A governemnt stacked with west brits .

Ahh the fabled west brits that ruin everything. Ohh if it wasn't for them pesky west brits we'd we living in a united ireland and there'd be no problems at all.
It must be great to live in such a world where you have an amorphous entity to blame everything on.

kreuzberger wrote: »

An occasion cruise OBrien , Fitzgerald and others deliberately wrecked by sending in the branch to arrest the people talking , causing absolute mayhem . That was absolute madness . They wrecked other talks as well aimed at getting a joint IRA nd loyalist statement calling for a British withdrawal . Cruise OBrien got up in the dail and announced those talks were taking place , again wrecking them just as those lunatics wrecked feakle .

Arresting terrorists? what a terrible idea, shame on them, SHAME.

kreuzberger wrote: »

the people who caused disaster were the people who broke 2 sets of talks up very deliberately . The same people whose arguments you are parroting here . Discredited lunatics like Conor Cruise OBrien etc

Ahh yes, of course people who disagree with you must be lunatics. I mean nobody anywhere with an ounce of sense could possible object to the unification of ireland. And to think that such a union would be a financial burden to the republic or even prehaps restart the violence of 'the troubles'? Ohh that'd about as sane as running naked through dublin.

And the bulk of your post avoided the original point with all the grace a newborn giraffe on ice.
What makes you think that all the potential problems that uniting ireland could be solved with some simple "discussions" when both sides in the north have a long history of being adverse to discussing anything. When parade routes can't even be decided upon what in the world makes you think you could hammer out the concept of being part of a united ireland?

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

Im of the opinion the increase in pro British attitudes south of the border is in direct corellation with the increase in the use of mens moisturising products.

lol

....

I still don't get the logic that a no vote = pro-British

dlofnep

Lads - we're all above slagging each other. Opinions differ, no matter what your view is. I've already said my bit on why I personally support Irish Unity and hope down the line all of us on this Island can live under one Government, without borders or predjudice. I think everyone has said their part at this stage.

The poll has not changed since it's beginning. The majority of the people on here support Irish Unity, a large contingent in the minority do not support it and a smaller minority are unsure, due to various reasons such as economic feasability or perhaps backlash from militant loyalists. It's all understandable and it's been great to read all the arguments from both sides and guage an understanding of today's mindset in Ireland.

Let's not turn what has been otherwise a good debate into a slag-fest.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kreuzberger wrote: »

Im of the opinion the increase in pro British attitudes south of the border is in direct corellation with the increase in the use of mens moisturising products.

Who does a no vote AUTOMATICALLY lead to some pro-British poseur jibes?

I don't have any affection for a united Ireland and I've no affection for Britain either - it's even more conservative than it is here - and I never touch men's moisturising products.

Can I use my psorasis cream seeing as it's medical?

Can I be labeled a West European instead of a West Brit? If not, why not?

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Let's not turn what has been otherwise a good debate into a slag-fest.

I agree but sometimes some people just say the daftest things

dlofnep

Ah, people are just emotional about the topic Dolan. It's hard to express what you have to say when you're emotional or attached about a subject. Don't take it personally. I think you're a good guy and I've seen you active with the Irish language, something that I'm also very fond of, and which is being veto'd out in the North. Still, I've said my piece.

To my Republican comrades on here, I understand your emotions about the topic - but we are absolutely above slagging-matches about the topic. I appreciate you're confusion about some people's mentalities on here in regards to Irish Unity. Some is passive-attitudes, some is based on economic instability, or fear of loyalist attacks. Some just are not bothered. We have to understand and accept this, and move on. Support for Unity is in the majority on here and has been since the inception of the thread. Don't worry so much.

kreuzberger

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Ahh the fabled west brits that ruin everything. Ohh if it wasn't for them pesky west brits we'd we living in a united ireland and there'd be no problems at all.
It must be great to live in such a world where you have an amorphous entity to blame everything on.

this is plainly over exaggerated sarcasm avoiding the issue that peace talks were delibertely wrecked by sending machine gun toting cops in to break them up

Arresting terrorists? what a terrible idea, shame on them, SHAME.

actually they arrested protestant clergymen . But it seems to have been a terrible idea in the case of the Dublin Monaghan bombings , indeed great efforts were made not to arrest anyone .

Ahh yes, of course people who disagree with you must be lunatics

.

Conor CruiseOBrien, Eoghan Harris and others ive referred to clearly are lunatics though . And clealry did have unfettered access to the media along with the ability to censor opposing views in the most draconian and blanket fashion . For decades . Even though OBrien even later joined a northern unionist party and then got thrown out when he said protestants would be better off in a united Ireland .:) :D:):)

Thats is clearly not very rational behaviour . Lets not even dwell on Harris .

I mean nobody anywhere with an ounce of sense could possible object to the unification of ireland.

you clearly are not making any sense or any logical contribution to the debate

And to think that such a union would be a financial burden to the republic or even prehaps restart the violence of 'the troubles'? Ohh that'd about as sane as running naked through dublin.

this is the garret fitzgerald/OBrien doom mongering stuff as opposed to the logical analysis ive referred to as being necessary for proper and reasoned deabte. you havent demonstrated how this is actually the case . Ive pointed to clear examples of how it could very easily be funded from our own resources , extra employment created and with plenty left over .

And the bulk of your post avoided the original point with all the grace a newborn giraffe on ice.
What makes you think that all the potential problems that uniting ireland could be solved with some simple "discussions" when both sides in the north have a long history of being adverse to discussing anything. When parade routes can't even be decided upon what in the world makes you think you could hammer out the concept of being part of a united ireland?[

Because its in peoples self interest to . And both sides in the north have plainly not been adverse to discussions . Residents groups opposed to orange parades have always taken the position " no talk = no walk" , meaning they clealrly desired discussion and agreemnt . The orangemen declared they had a right to walk " the queens highway" and refused to talk , instead relying on the British to batter nationalists off the roads.

So , from the example you give one side are prepared to talk and always have been , and in a united Ireland it plainly would not be the queens highway any more . Thats quite obvious . Furthermore unionists would not be in a posiioton of bullying a powerless minority but an empowered majoriity which is a plainly different political equation . Then its very much in their interests to talk when in the previous equation it wasnt . It would not be the British tazxpayer picking up the bill for any rioting but instead the bill would be coming out of their own pockets for any damage they were responsible for . Its they whod suffer directly for any mayhem . . South of the border orangemen have no difficulty whatsoever talking to the local community and gaining their consent . Nobody stops their march in Rossnowlagh or mini marches in Monaghan and cavan ,or even thinks of doing it . They are there with consent , not because they can bully a minority . Thats how a united Ireland would work out .

Just to restate my answer to the original question (it's long lost in the fud)
heart says yes, but the head says no; not untill a lot of issues economic, cultural & political are sorted out!

dlofnep

I can appreciate that dolanbaker, that seems to be a common requirement for many of the no voters. And it's something I as a Republican and other Republicans have to conquer and devise a realistic strategy to tackle it.

kreuzberger

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

- and I never touch men's moisturising products.

obviously ,wiith a name like that

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

I can appreciate that dolanbaker, that seems to be a common requirement for many of the no voters. And it's something I as a Republican and other Republicans have to conquer and devise a realistic strategy to tackle it.

Go raibh maith agat

javaboy

Kold wrote: »

The happenings in the North are nothing like Tibet/Burma/Sudan.

You were making the case that just because someone does not have a connection to a place, that they shouldn't care. I have no relations living in Northern Ireland and I've only been there once. Is it ok if I still have an opinion on it?

kildare paddy

Deleted User wrote: »

I still don't get the logic that a no vote = pro-British

because your accepting british rule in Ireland

Slutmonkey57b

Dudess wrote: »

Because it's the island of Ireland and the six counties were taken by force. I don't care how long ago it happened. It was still unjust.

Then you'll have no problem with everyone who votes no on the basis that the Norn Irish are a bunch of murdering terrorist bastards....?

Pythia

Britain made us what we are today. We should be grateful.
Many celebrated Irishmen of the past were actually of British parentage or were Protestant, a fact many choose to ignore.

Rb

kreuzberger wrote: »

So , from the example you give one side are prepared to talk and always have been , and in a united Ireland it plainly would not be the queens highway any more . Thats quite obvious . Furthermore unionists would not be in a posiioton of bullying a powerless minority but an empowered majoriity which is a plainly different political equation . Then its very much in their interests to talk when in the previous equation it wasnt . It would not be the British tazxpayer picking up the bill for any rioting but instead the bill would be coming out of their own pockets for any damage they were responsible for . Its they whod suffer directly for any mayhem . . South of the border orangemen have no difficulty whatsoever talking to the local community and gaining their consent . Nobody stops their march in Rossnowlagh or mini marches in Monaghan and cavan ,or even thinks of doing it . They are there with consent , not because they can bully a minority . Thats how a united Ireland would work out .

Oh wow you're genuinely insane.

kildare paddy

kildare paddy wrote: »

because your accepting british rule in Ireland

:rolleyes: (I prefer the other one but this'll do)

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to restate my answer to the original question (it's long lost in the fud)
heart says yes, but the head says no; not untill a lot of issues economic, cultural & political are sorted out!

AlmightyCushion

rb_ie wrote: »

Oh wow you're genuinely insane.

Watch it rb.

kreuzberger

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Then you'll have no problem with everyone who votes no on the basis that the Norn Irish are a bunch of murdering terrorist bastards....?

thats not just illogical but considering the fact it was southerners who pretty much invented the IRA , IRB , Fenians, Invincibles , guerilla ambushes assassination and the like totally hypocritical . The people who started the provos and the INLA were all southerners .

dlofnep

Pythia wrote: »

Britain made us what we are today. We should be grateful.
Many celebrated Irishmen of the past were actually of British parentage or were Protestant, a fact many choose to ignore.

I'll be sure to thank Britain for turning their back on us during the famine, for implementing penal laws on us, for murdering innocent children in Derry, for dividing our country and causing a civil war, for general oppression for 100's of years.

Ireland became one of the greatest nations in the world through it's own Government, and own people. We owe nothing to Britain. But you are correct, they made us what we are today - a divided nation. Please don't insult our intelligence and try to imply that we owe britain anything.

kreuzberger

javaboy wrote: »

You were making the case that just because someone does not have a connection to a place, that they shouldn't care. I have no relations living in Northern Ireland and I've only been there once. Is it ok if I still have an opinion on it?

Its part of your own country ffs