The Quest for 2.59.59

Racing Flat

Mon 28th July - 10m, 76mins, 7.40pace, 146bpm

Tues 29th July - 10.4m with 8 x 800 ~2.45each

Wed 30th July - 7.2m, 58mins, 8.10pace, 138bpm

Thurs 31st July - 11.3m including 40mins tempo, 6.15pace @ 168bpm, 6.4m

Fri 1st Aug - Rest

Sat 2nd Aug - 22.2m, 2.54, 7.52pace, 141bpm

Sun 3rd Aug - 10m, 74mins, 7.27pace, 142bpm

Weekly Total = 71miles

Racing Flat

Mon 4th Aug - 10.2m, 77mins, 7.33pace, 144bpm

Tues 5th Aug - 10.3m incl. 4 x 1m ~5.42

Wed 6th Aug - Rest

Thurs 7th Aug - 11.8m incl. 45min tempo, 6.16pace, 173bpm

Fri 8th Aug - Rest

Sat 9th Aug - Rest

Sun 10th Aug - 21m, 2.36, 7.27pace, 155bpm

Weekly Total = 53 miles

Racing Flat

A bit disappointed with last week. Missed Wednesday run due to work committments, so decided to do this Friday. But felt a little run down Friday and Saturday so took the days off. Did the trick as I was ready for a long run then on Sunday. Disappointed because I was hoping for a 60-70mile week, but happy that I only missed 2 easy 8-10milers, got all the key sessions in for the week. And perhaps by taking those days off I missed only 2 days rather than a week with a cold...

Handy enough fortnight ahead now training wise as I have a 10k and a half marathon at the weekends, will hopefully then get 2-3 final heavy weeks in before the taper. Can't wait for the half marathon, should give an indiaction as to where I stand.

Abhainn

Racing Flat -"A bit disappointed with last week"

Me thinks still a good week with 50+ miles. Wise decision to take off a couple of rest days. Your well on target though. Have you target times for the two races ahead?

Busy week for me ahead but reducing the long run next weekend to 16 as per you advise. Longford week after so that week will be easy.
Also probably two hard weeks left after that before taper. Maybe a 10K race on the 14 Sept

Racing Flat

Abhainn,

Would like to break 36 for 10k, but it will be as part of a triathlon relay so not too sure what to expect. Also, using it as a hard tempo run in build up to longford half, so won't train down as much as normal, so not too concerned about time for this, just want a good effort. For Longford, I want to break 80. This would be a big PB, but based on a 59.59 from Ballycotton a few months back, I shouldn't be too far off, but all depends on course and weather etc I supose. I intend going off at 80min pace anyway and see how it goes.

I personally wouldn't be too keen on a 10k 2 weeks before the marathon. Although I know it suits others. You'd recover in time, but the physical and mental drain just 2 weeks before is too much for me. Plus for a few days after you will be heavy legged, when I like to feel good during taper. Did a 5mile cross country a few years ago about 2 weeks before Dublin, thinking it would be a great final blow-out, but it just didn't suit me. So 5 weeks before with the half will be my last race.

Racing Flat

Mon 11th Aug - 8.5m, 68mins, 8.04pace, 143bpm

Tues 12th Aug - 13.7m, 25 x 400 - first 15 at 10mile pace (90s), last 10 at 5mile pace (85s) with 200m jog (8min pace) recovery

Wed 13th Aug - Rest

Thurs 14th Aug - 8.4m, 69mins, 8.15pace, 145bpm

Fri 15th Aug - Rest

Sat 16th Aug - 9.5m, 10k time trial 37.09, 5.58pace, 178bpm

Sun 17th Aug - Rest

Weekly Total = 40 miles

Happy with 10k, good work out prior to half marathon next week. Terrible conditions, water up to knees in places, wind and rain. Easy taper week now, can't wait for half marathon. Hopefully weather improves.

blah

Racing Flat wrote: »

..., but based on a 59.59 from Ballycotton a few months back...

Quick question, when you say 59.59, what distance are you referring to? Thanks.

Edit: just googled it, found you original log. A 10 mile road race it is so. Well done on completing it in 59.59. Good luck with the marathon!

cfitz

Hey,

Was just having a look at your last few logs there. Have one or two questions:

How come there's so many rest days?

People have different hearts, but you seem to be doing your runs at a very low heart rate - is this because you've moved up to marathon training? I'd be tempted to push up towards 160bpm on some of them runs...

Seems like things are going fairly well for you, hope it continues.

Racing Flat

cfitz, on a 3 weeks hard, 1 week easy schedule. This week is supposed to be the easy week, leading up to half marathon on Sunday. Last week had a 10k on Sat and with travelling to and from missed the Friday and Sunday runs. Week before felt I was a bit run down so took 2 days off. Other than that, have generally done 6 days a week on hard weeks. So not too happy with prospect of 3 4 day weeks in a row, but not too concerned as I got all my key sessions in, only missed some of the easy run days.

I suppose I'll find out on Sunday. Following that I'll have 2 hard weeks, hopefully 60-70miles, with a 22mile run long run in each of those, then taper down with a 55(18mile long run), 45 (13mile long run), 25 (marathon week) or something like that.

Re heart rate, had a VO2max/lactate threshold test, and based on this my heat rates were worked out. My lactate threshold occurs at 178bpm, so I am supposed to do tempo runs bewteen 170-175bpm. Easy runs are supposed to be around 145bpm and speed sessions above 175bpm. My heart rate max was 189 on that test, although 193 the one before that. These zones seemed to work for me for a 10mile race I was going for, so went back for a repeat test, with slight readjustments made for the marathon. Have had a few PBs at 4k, 3 miles and 5 miles (missed out on 10k as you know, possibly due to poor tactics ie going out too fast, or else fatigue from travelling) while on this plan. So feeling quite good, last few weeks not perfect, but I think by taking a few rest days I might have staved off a cold. Will find out on Sunday anyway!


PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Abhainn

Racing Flat wrote: »

PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Every one is different and I am not an expert on lactate threshold or VO2 max.
But for long runs I aim to run under 149bpm (80% HRM) rather than keep at a set pace. Right now this equates to average 7:35 pace mile and I find this comfortable and works for me. As I said for others this may be different.
But any quicker than that and I find that you use up fuel more quickly.
I used to bring carb drink on my runs runs prior to this marathon schedule but I've stopped this and find no effect on the run itself. I just bring along water and some lemon cordial.

I would not do tempo runs or speed sessions as hard as you mainly because I have not great speed. Id say I'd struggle to get even under 5:40 for a mile now. I'd rather do a long MP run than a speed session any day.

cfitz

Racing Flat wrote: »

Re heart rate, had a VO2max/lactate threshold test, and based on this my heat rates were worked out. My lactate threshold occurs at 178bpm, so I am supposed to do tempo runs bewteen 170-175bpm. Easy runs are supposed to be around 145bpm and speed sessions above 175bpm. My heart rate max was 189 on that test, although 193 the one before that. These zones seemed to work for me for a 10mile race I was going for, so went back for a repeat test, with slight readjustments made for the marathon. Have had a few PBs at 4k, 3 miles and 5 miles (missed out on 10k as you know, possibly due to poor tactics ie going out too fast, or else fatigue from travelling) while on this plan. So feeling quite good, last few weeks not perfect, but I think by taking a few rest days I might have staved off a cold. Will find out on Sunday anyway!


PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Well you have the tests and the maths done so I won't argue with that - I was going from personal experience. I did a vo2 max test and a lactate threshold test in college (about 6 years ago I'd say) and my max heart rate for both tests was 218. I don't think this is very normal though. What does your heart rate be before you begin running? I'm not using a heart rate monitor at the moment but a few months ago it would have been about 57bpm before I started I think.

On my easy weeks I do the same amount of runs, just reduce the length of them.

Racing Flat

cfitz wrote: »

my max heart rate for both tests was 218. I don't think this is very normal though.

What does your heart rate be before you begin running?

On my easy weeks I do the same amount of runs, just reduce the length of them.

218 is probably higher than average, but normal for you. Using a generic formula, your training paces should be 70-80% (152-174) of this for easy runs, around 90% (196) for tempo runs and >95% (207) for speed sessions. Max heart rate can change though so might be no harm to go for another test seeing as it was 6 years ago.

My HR first thing in the morning is now around 40bpm.

The advice given to me on easy weeks was to reduce quantity and quality, so normally (might be a bit different for marathon as I'm doing more miles anyway) I'd go from 6 days (50miles) to 4 days (30miles) with just 2 easy 40min runs and 2 runs with 2 x 10mins tempo. This feels strange like I'm doing nothing but tend to feel great at the end of the week, so good time to have a race, or in any case I'm well ready for the next 3 hard weeks.

cfitz

Racing Flat wrote: »

The advice given to me on easy weeks was to reduce quantity and quality, so normally (might be a bit different for marathon as I'm doing more miles anyway) I'd go from 6 days (50miles) to 4 days (30miles) with just 2 easy 40min runs and 2 runs with 2 x 10mins tempo. This feels strange like I'm doing nothing but tend to feel great at the end of the week, so good time to have a race, or in any case I'm well ready for the next 3 hard weeks.

On my easy weeks I aim to maintain the same quality but reduce quantity. I do 75% of a normal week. So a 60 minute run becomes a 45 minute run (at a similar pace to what I normally do a 60 minute run in). And a 4 x 1600m session might become 3 x 1600m without increasing the pace.

For the runs I tend to be thinking it's an easy week so I stay relaxed and the pace is often slower than it's meant to be. But for the sessions sometimes I can't help pushing them on because I know I've only a few reps to do.

Woddle

Cheers racing flat and best of luck, look forward to seeing how quickly you go. I've been keeping a close eye on your training as its the level that I would like to achieve in the future. enjoy tomorrow.

SUNGOD

best of luck tommorrow

Odysseus

Good luck tomorrow mate, all you guys have me jealous that I'm not going.

Abhainn

RF 1:19:59.

Hope this gale blows itself out by 11am tomorrow

Racing Flat

Mon 18th Aug - 6.4m, 47mins, 7.24pace, 152bpm

Tues 19th Aug - 7.8m, 2 x 10mins tempo, 6.01pace @ 178bpm + 5.54pace @ 181bpm

Wed 20th Aug - 5.5m, 44mins, 8.07pace, 151bpm

Thurs 21st Aug - 6.2m, 50mins, 8.08pace, 145bpm

Fri 22nd Aug - Rest

Sat 23rd Aug - 3.2m, 26mins, with 3 x 40secs @ half mara race pace

Sun 24th Aug - 16m, half marathon 83mins

Weekly Total = 45 miles

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

RF 1:19:59.

Hope this gale blows itself out by 11am tomorrow

Nowhere near! 83mins. Happy enough, lungs were okay but legs found it tough. 80mins probably a bit ambitious, I'm not fit enough for that just yet. A 1 minute PB, so happy enough.

Odysseus

Congrats impressive time Racing Flat.

SUNGOD

great time racing flat congratulations

Abhainn

Well done anyway. A PB is never something to look down upon. I probably shook your hand at the finish, probably one of the dudes on the chairs as our chips were snipped off.

Woddle

Fair play to you racing flat, great stuff

ike

Nicely done RF 83min for the half is impressive - that pace puts you easily under 3 hours for the full

Racing Flat

ike wrote: »

Nicely done RF 83min for the half is impressive - that pace puts you easily under 3 hours for the full

Hopefully - I'd 84.30 last time and I ran 3.06, so was hoping to have more in reserve this time. But I'm finding the long runs easier, so fingers crossed. Thanks.

Abhainn

Hi Racing Flat

Just wondering what form of fuel belt are you intending to use in Berlin?

I normally use the Newline Fuelbelt (got it from Irish Fit) which I fill up with carb/ protein drink. It's fine but the thought of lugging it round with 800ml of a drink which I would only need untill second half of the race doesn't appeal to me again.
There are probably gels and stuff at the water stations but I don't want to risk using those.
I will probably use a gel or two on my last long runs to make sure I'm ok with them.
Advise appreciated

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

Hi Racing Flat

Just wondering what form of fuel belt are you intending to use in Berlin?

Won't use any. Used a powerbar one on training for first marathon, and just don't like the way sweat collects underneath it and it occasionally rubbed causing a bit of chafing. Plus I don't want any extra weight! So, what I did for the actual marathon was squeezed 2 gels into the tiny pocket of my shorts and had someone hand me a gel also (waiting at the Chapelizod gate of the park), so took that one first and took the other 2 later on. For Berlin, I'll carry 2 gels, to be on the safe side - do they give some out? If so I'll rely on that for a third (if needed), if not I might either try to squeeze 3 in, or else someone might be able to hand me one, but no idea whether this is feasible in Berlin. Some people who don't have pockets in their shorts pin them on to their shorts, so that's an option. For fluid I rely on the fluid stations, again I don't know what the set-up in Berlin is in relation to this - any ideas?

Woddle

Berlin water stations at 5k, 11.5K, 17.5 K, 22.5K, 27.5K, 32.5K, 37.5K, and then they have catering points at 9K, 15K, 20K, 25K, 30K, 35K, ok I guess it would have been easier to say every 5K bar the start.
I won't be wearing my belt either as I did it in Longford and it was just too much weight.

Abhainn

Thanks guys. My belt is very comfortable but like you I don't wish to carry the extra weight
RF that tiny pocket of yours must not be so tiny! Yes pining them may be an option but the they will just flap around?

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

Thanks guys. My belt is very comfortable but like you I don't wish to carry the extra weight
RF that tiny pocket of yours must not be so tiny! Yes pining them may be an option but the they will just flap around?

Never done it so I don't know - depends how you pin it I suppose!