Permanent ban. is it over the Top.??

Xavi6

PSI wrote: »

I'm sorry, did you just use the term "moral obligation" with respect to feedback?

No, with respect to the users that post in their forum

PSI wrote: »

Do you read feedback? I only come here if someone directs me here (in this case a rather sheepish Rockman) or if I feel like unleashing my anger at someone.

So you admit that you abuse it as much as anyone else then? Nice.

PSI wrote: »

Feedback is a lame duck of a forum that is really just a place where users can abuse other users in front of an assembled crowd. Salem witch trials weren't as barbaric as some feedback threads. "Moral obligation", don't make me laugh.

This has nothing to do with the pros and cons of feedback. Fine, if you want I'll start a thread in the soccer forum about this particular issue. Will you take it more seriously then?

PSI wrote: »

Regarding the other issue. If you want something done, you go to helpdesk. If you want street theater you come here.

Ah yes helpdesk, a cheap way out so mods don't have to deal with the opinions of the average joe user.

PSI wrote: »

If I'm going to address an issue with a forum I mod, officially, I want to do it in a place where people post maturely, respectfully and where there are rules.

Like the soccer forum? Let's take it there so.

GuanYin

Hagar wrote: »

I know quite well what a mod's job is.

No, you think you know what other mods jobs are.

You might have noticed I'm a mod too. I also know to do it properly we must be prepared to engage with all users via the Feedback forum.

Show me where it says that in the mod forum or a PM directive from any admin.

If you think you don't have to then I don't believe you have a proper handle on your duties. I don't believe mods are above accountability to the posters in their forums. You seem to think you are if you say you have no obligation to respond to issues raised concerning your forum. I can't understand that attitude, at all.

I don't see how you link accountability to feedback. You've read feedback right? The place with the cat pictures and the abuse?

I have no obligation to post here. Noone has EVER said ANY mod has an obligation to post here. If the forum was run in any sort of efficient way or there was a signal to noise ratio anywhere near coherent, yeah, maybe I'd take your point but this is feedback.

Your paragraph that I have highlighted is laughable. And that is the kindest thing I can say about it. You admonishing me, telling me to remember my place and learn humility. I know my place, I serve the posters that come here and I enjoy it. Remind me of your position again?

Its laughable that you're directing other mods to follow an ethos that exists soley in your head. My position is to ensure the smooth running of the forums and catagory that I've been entrusted with and to answer to the admins of the site. I'm accountable for my actions, but I answer to the admins and noone else. They appointed me. Not the users. I can do all of the jobs I've been entrusted with, without ever looking at this forum.

This place is for earning kudos, becoming popular and making yourself look clever. I'm not interested in any of those things.

Hagar

PSI wrote: »

This place is for earning kudos, becoming popular and making yourself look clever. I'm not interested in any of those things.

Your cynicism serves you well. Good luck with it.

GuanYin

Xavi6 wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the pros and cons of feedback. Fine, if you want I'll start a thread in the soccer forum about this particular issue. Will you take it more seriously then?

If you want to be banned form soccer, go right ahead.

Ah yes helpdesk, a cheap way out so mods don't have to deal with the opinions of the average joe user.

Thats the admins doing. If I had my way (and I've voiced this many times) the helpdesk would allow communication between the mods involved in the forum of complaint, the admins, cmods and smods involved and the user with the complaint. And noone else.

That forumula, would have mods held accountable AND get results. As it stands, it is still a better option than here.

Like the soccer forum? Let's take it there so.

No. If you have a serious issue with a mod, the place for it is helpdesk or contacting the cmod in question or an admin.

If you want to start a witch hunt where all the people with axes can go and mount a campaign where there is no equal say and judgement is made before the person being questioned even arrives on the thread. Hurray for feedback.

Xavi6

PSI wrote: »

If you want to be banned form soccer, go right ahead.

Lol brilliant response. Dismissive til the end. For fuck sake.

PSI wrote: »

If you want to start a witch hunt where all the people with axes can go and mount a campaign where there is no equal say and judgement is made before the person being questioned even arrives on the thread. Hurray for feedback.

Stop trying to pass the blame to the regular users. If there wasn't an issue with the moderator then there'd be no thread.

GuanYin

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol brilliant response. Dismissive til the end. For fuck sake.

Look, just cos you guys all wanna have a gallows party, doesn't mean I stop doing my job moderating.

I'm happy for anyone to have a right of reply, so long as they do it in the right place.

But....

Stop trying to pass the blame to the regular
users. If there wasn't an issue with the moderator then there'd be no thread.

I think if I'm to take it seriously, I need to see something more than the likes of kaiser's posts in this thread. Do you think that sort of crap actually makes a case?

If you REALLY feel there is an issue, go to the correct channels, why make a fuss. I believe we've nothing to fear as soccer mods.

If you want street theater, stay here, enjoy the show.

The question I have about the motives of feedback is. If you have a strong case, why not quietly get a higher being to review the issue and pass judgement. Why go for the Britney effect with a feedback thread unless you really just want a public rant.

Xavi6

As much as I would love to respond to Beruthiel's request for links in the Help Desk thread (i.e. the proper channels you speak of) I am unable to.

GuanYin

PM her.

Xavi6

I had actually planned on doing that later on. I leave work in 20 minutes to go straight to football so don't have the time to go rooting but if no one gets there before me I may do later.

There is an issue here whether people will admit it or not.

Beruthiel

Xavi6 wrote: »

As much as I would love to respond to Beruthiel's request for links in the Help Desk thread (i.e. the proper channels you speak of) I am unable to.

Post them here.
Clear and concise.
I am in work and will not spend hours on this.

KevIRL

Beruthiel wrote: »

Post them here.
Clear and concise.
I am in work and will not spend hours on this.

Hi Ber

Necromonins post (273) on this thread pretty much summed it up.

Its on this page.....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055292030&page=19

I've copied it below, but it probably isnt too readable, so you may want to go to the link.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PSI View Post
So hold on are people making the point that T4TF is trolling but other people aren't.

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?
No and no. Nobody is saying that T4TF shouldn't be allowed to troll and regular folk shouldn't. DesF got banned for trolling, admitted as much, we move on.

Quote:
If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.
Well I guess that's the issue, that we're in disagreement. I honestly don't see how you can defend some of his posts yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSI View Post
Look people, you can't have it both ways. You can't say "lets have a lenient forum where we can have banter, except from the mod, because, you know, we don't like him and he's a mod...booooooo!!!"
Again, nobody is saying that.

When I saw his posts in the United thread yesterday I was annoyed. I ignored them, because I could see this happening and I didn't fancy a banning.

I have one question. Why choose the United thread? Surely he knew that he'd attract heat from United fans with those comments, why not at least use the match thread, or 'neutral ground' so to speak?

This was his first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
So how much do you think the ref will be involved in Unted winning the league then ?
Looks like my auld paranormal instincts were spot on for this one. Congrats Man U. and congrats to the ref who ensured that it was not interesting as he should have sent off Scholes and Wigan should have had a Pen.
Coming into the Man United thread a few minutes after United won the league to suggest that they had the referee to thank, how is that not baiting?

After a few posts back and forth from users who took exception to his post and T4TF defending himself, he posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish View Post
bordering on abuse there Denis. And as for bitter, I do not see how quoting myself saying that the ref would have a lot to do with them winning the league after the ref had a lot to do with them winning the league is bitter. I have already congratulated ye on winning the league again, and rather than debate the points made Manc fans rather go on the auld abuse route
Now surely if a United fan went into the Liverpool thread and posted such a generalisation it would be a cut and dry ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish View Post
are you serious Will, Man United have won the league and fair play but they did have a lot of help from the ref. And yet instead of reasoning it out, Manc fans seem to be blanking it and saying it is because I am not a Man U fan that I am reminding ye. shame really, well respected fans and all that
Wow, another sarcastic jibe at United fans, what a shock.

Then the user adox posted addressing his points and saying why he thought T4TF was trolling. This was the last sentence in his post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adox View Post
Again,mod or not, I cant help but feel you are deliberately trying to stir things up for the sake of it, and more the fool me in fact for bothering to reply.
To which T4TF replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adox
.......more the fool me .......
Agreed.
Wtf? Agree? With what? Is he agreeing with adox's point that he's trolling and adox shouldn't have bothered feeding him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesF
It's the nature in which he went about it, his intended outcome and the fallout he knew would happen.
This is the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSI View Post
Prove it.
We've all provided points, which even some impartial mods with no interest in soccer have said have some grounding.

GuanYin

I sent you the links in PM.

Incidently the actual issue of this thread was resolved about 100 posts ago, but most definitely with this post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55919043&postcount=352

Xavi6

Ok I'm doing this very quickly as I have RL stuff that needs doing as I said in my previous post -

So how much do you think the ref will be involved in Unted winning the league then ?

Trolling in the thread before the game even started. Why not post it in the general Premiership thread instead of the United thread where it was bound to get a reaction?

Followed that up by quoting it with the response -

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Looks like my auld paranormal instincts were spot on for this one. Congrats Man U. and congrats to the ref who ensured that it was not interesting as he should have sent off Scholes and Wigan should have had a Pen.

Couldn't just say 'well done' and leave it at that. Had to go that step further.

Still at it -

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Bitter, why would I be bitter lad ? I predicted that the ref would have a large part to play and I was right. Do you think that United would have been in a situation to get a second penalty had they have been ten v eleven on a team who for large parts of the game were better than them ?

Asked by a user to just let it go -

adox wrote: »

Can you not just leave it alone now the ****ing season is over?

Ignores it and keeps going on about the ref -

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

are you serious Will, Man United have won the league and fair play but they did have a lot of help from the ref. And yet instead of reasoning it out, Manc fans seem to be blanking it and saying it is because I am not a Man U fan that I am reminding ye. shame really, well respected fans and all that :rolleyes:

Personal abuse? -

Originally Posted by adox
.......more the fool me .......

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Agreed.

And it goes on. You get the jist.

I really gotta go. If you need more I'll be back on later.

RE*AC*TOR

Xavi6 wrote: »

Trolling in the thread before the game even started. Why not post it in the general Premiership thread instead of the United thread where it was bound to get a reaction?

You're a hypocrite of the highest order. You do the same in the Liverpool thread.

Stupid witchunt crap.

One of the mod's is a Liverpool supporter - Oh noes!

Get the fúck over it.

Sherifu

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

You're a hypocrite of the highest order. You do the same in the Liverpool thread.

I believe his argument was he makes valid points... :pac:

He could have posted in the game thread.

kaizersoze1980

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

You're a hypocrite of the highest order. You do the same in the Liverpool thread.

Stupid witchunt crap.

One of the mod's is a Liverpool supporter - Oh noes!

Get the fúck over it.

Im sorry but you dont have a clue what you're talking about.
xavi6is a city fan, and if anything i would expect him to post trolling comments in the united thread. But he doesn't.

There is an issue here whether the mods want to acknowledge it or not is another matter.
The mod in question has past form of trolling the united thread.
Trolling his OWN FORUM

After the Manu Liverpool game recently, he posted a commend along the lines

"old rednose dancing a jig like hes won it already"

With "old rednose" being a reference to sir alex ferguson, united manager.
If any other user posted that, theyd be warned for trolling.

RE*AC*TOR

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

Im sorry but you dont have a clue what you're talking about.
xavi6is a city fan, and if anything i would expect him to post trolling comments in the united thread. But he doesn't.

I don't give a tuppenyfúck who he supports. When it comes to trolling, all the troll is interested in is massaging his ego to prove how intelligent he is.

Go back and read through the Liverpool thread for the Liverpool Blackburn match on the 13th March. Then maybe you'll have a clue what you're talking about.

Gaping....

kaizersoze1980

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

I don't give a tuppenyfúck who he supports. When it comes to trolling, all the troll is interested in is massaging his ego to prove how intelligent he is.

Go back and read through the Liverpool thread for the Liverpool Blackburn match on the 13th March. Then maybe you'll have a clue what you're talking about.

Gaping....

And I don't give a tuppenyfúck if Xavi6 has trolled the Liverpool thread. You want to know why? Because he is NOT the moderator of the soccer forum.
T4TF IS . Which is what makes it so unforgivable.

If Xavi6 trolled, he gets banned or should get banned. Same goes for me.
Same goes for T4TF

tbh

probably a stupid question, but you couldn't all just ignore the taunts, no?

RE*AC*TOR

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

And I don't give a tuppenyfúck if Xavi6 has trolled the Liverpool thread. You want to know why? Because he is NOT the moderator of the soccer forum.
T4TF IS . Which is what makes it so unforgivable.

If Xavi6 trolled, he gets banned or should get banned. Same goes for me.
Same goes for T4TF

T4TF, god bless him, is a user as well as a moderator. Xavi6 did not get banned for that, nor should T4TF or PHB (he's more subtle) or any of the rest. Why? Because at the moment we have a common-sense moderation policy on the forum, as opposed to a year ago where we had a zero tolerance, black and white policy.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

probably a stupid question, but you couldn't all just ignore the taunts, no?

What?

Why can't every user just ignore every troll.

Why are trolls even banned in the first place?

That's a silly attitude, imo.

Users on Soccer are banned for trolling.

Sherifu

tbh wrote: »

probably a stupid question, but you couldn't all just ignore the taunts, no?

Self control would be nice alright.

Soccer, serious business.

Report posts instead of getting banned.

kaizersoze1980

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

T4TF, god bless him, is a user as well as a moderator. Xavi6 did not get banned for that, nor should T4TF or PHB (he's more subtle) or any of the rest. Why? Because at the moment we have a common-sense moderation policy on the forum, as opposed to a year ago where we had a zero tolerance, black and white policy.

T4TF , if found to be trolling, should not be banned?

Is that what you are saying?

Because if it is, then you are setting a precedent that every moderator is allowed to troll his own forum because we have a "common-sense policy" .

kaimera

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

T4TF , if found to be trolling, should not be banned?

Is that what you are saying?

Because if it is, then you are setting a precedent that every moderator is allowed to troll his own forum because we have a "common-sense policy" .

Jaysus, you really missed what he said didn't you?

GuanYin

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

T4TF, god bless him, is a user as well as a moderator. Xavi6 did not get banned for that, nor should T4TF or PHB (he's more subtle) or any of the rest. Why? Because at the moment we have a common-sense moderation policy on the forum, as opposed to a year ago where we had a zero tolerance, black and white policy.

I've been reminded, REACTOR, that when this debate arose a year ago, there was a post, attributed to me that basically said.

We make the forum lenient, people complain that there is trolling.

We then make the forum stricter, people complain it too strict.

We make the forum lenient again, people complain of trolling.

We go strict again.... repeat forever.

I don't wanna say everyone was told so, but....

_blank_

Nothing to do with strict/lenient.

The issue here is the percieved trolling by a forum mod, of his own forum.

6th

Its really nice outside, I was just there.

Calina

DesF wrote: »

Nothing to do with strict/lenient.

The issue here is the percieved trolling by a forum mod, of his own forum.

The word perceived is key in that sentence.

_blank_

Calina wrote: »

The word perceived is key in that sentence.

Which is why I used it.

Beruthiel

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Woke up this morning to a permanent ban from the soccer Forum, Which in my opinion is way over the top , For my offence yes I may deserve a ban .

The perm ban has now been reduced to a couple of weeks.
Therefore this thread issue has been sorted.

As for the rest of this thread, all I'm seeing here is a childish, petty witchhunt.
Soccer would appear to bring out the 12 year old in most people.
You all need to get over your petty rivalry.

As for T4TF, he didn't do anything that any other poster in the forum does freely.
If anyone thought he was trolling then report the post instead of rising to the 'bait'. After reading the offending part of the thread, all I can say is, good grief, it's football, not life or death....