Permanent ban. is it over the Top.??

Iago

stevenmu wrote: »

Tbh, this thread just seems like a bunch of banned users jumping on the bandwagon to have a moan.

I'm not a banned user, and I've never had an infraction on any of the fora I post on.

I've often thought that T4TF (aside from having a great username) was baiting/trolling and generally looking to get united fans riled up. He's very smart though, at no point does he ever personally abuse anyone, he just riles them up enough to get them to condemn themselves.

Now why anyone bothers with arguing with keyboard warriors on any forum is beyond me, but regardless it's not just banned users jumping on a bandwagon.

Sully

stevenmu wrote: »

A ban is certainly fair, multiple warnings had been given on thread by another moderator (PSI). I don't know the specifics of it, if it is permanent or not, and what the reasoning behind that may be. There's a 3 strikes rule, so it might be that. Or there may or may not be extra factors.

Thats not really answering my question. Do you think in this case a permanent ban is fair? Take into consideration previous offenses and this case in question.

Xavi6

stevenmu wrote: »

A ban is certainly fair, multiple warnings had been given on thread by another moderator (PSI). I don't know the specifics of it, if it is permanent or not, and what the reasoning behind that may be. There's a 3 strikes rule, so it might be that. Or there may or may not be extra factors.

Well maybe you should go back and read this thread because it has been said on more than one occassion that the OP has no previous strikes. It has also been confirmed that the ban is permanent so yes you do have the facts at hand.

You haven't answered the question either on whether a permanent ban is warranted.

kaizersoze1980

Iago wrote: »

I'm not a banned user, and I've never had an infraction on any of the fora I post on.

I've often thought that T4TF (aside from having a great username) was baiting/trolling and generally looking to get united fans riled up. He's very smart though, at no point does he ever personally abuse anyone, he just riles them up enough to get them to condemn themselves.

Now why anyone bothers with arguing with keyboard warriors on any forum is beyond me, but regardless it's not just banned users jumping on a bandwagon.

Great points Iago, and I totally agree.
He does it in a very clever and sneaky way so as to just toe the line but not make it too obvious. I'm glad more and more impartial people are coming here to lend weight to this discussion.
It's not on, and no-one wants to see the forum shut down like what happened before. Its blatant what he is doing, and the fact none of the soccer mods are coming on here to discuss it is worrying.

_blank_

PHB is doing exams/studying.

PSI is on at weird hours.

T4TF does whtever the hell he wants as far as I can see.

Kdjac doesn't seem to have been around today either

Euggiebear is the CMod, maybe he should take a look?

leninbenjamin

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

He is rotten to the core

will you tone down you're language at least? that kind of statement is just ridiculous. all it serves is to make it look like your permanent ban is probably deserved.

Sherifu

leninbenjamin wrote: »

will you tone down you're language at least? that kind of statement is just ridiculous. all it serves is to make it look like your permanent ban is probably deserved.

kaizersoze1980 only got a 2 week ban I think. ROCKMAN got permed. Though he does seem more upset.

ROCKMAN

stevenmu wrote: »

It looks to me like he tried to make a point, got personally jumped upon, and then tried to bring discussion back to the point he was trying to make. If people can't handle a point being made, which is a valid point within the rules of the forum, and react by breaking the rules of the forum, that's their own fault, not that of the mod.



A ban is certainly fair, multiple warnings had been given on thread by another moderator (PSI). I don't know the specifics of it, if it is permanent or not, and what the reasoning behind that may be. There's a 3 strikes rule, so it might be that. Or there may or may not be extra factors.

Just log out and re read the thread ,
PSI wrote a post with grow up in it but I did not see it has a warning (offically) at the time taught it was just a other poster backing up t4tf which is ok,
I posted one post after the banning post if that makes sense and this is the only one post deleted which I have posted in this thread.(must have been banned later. The post were I say bed is calling Champions ,Champions etc etc etc, and retired for the night.)
This post( my last ) and the banning post were made nearly an hour before , PSI posted a thread warning, So I never seen it could use it as officially warning and re thought anything i may have posted fast a sleep at the time this warning was appearing .
As for the 3 strike I have already stated on this thread , I have never been ban from any forum and I have throughtout time on boards just recieved just one WARNING (about a month back for posting a joke, LIVERPOOL joke in the UTD forum)

Mr Alan

Ban seems extremely harsh tbh.

Also, people using me as an example?

I have been banned for less than wat T4TF did.

I believe it was refered to it as, "derailing" the thread. probably fair enough on reflection.

If opposition fans are posting in the superthreads, they should show an element of respect to where they are imo, ie. not repeating the points over and over and over when the points are clearly pissing people off in the thread. He is more than right to air his point in the thread, but imo once it became apparent that it was developing into an argument T4TF should have started a "Steve Bennett/United" thread. Therefore people could avoid the topic if they wanted,and partake in the discussion if they so wished. but could have no complaints of baiting/trolling etc as the thread topic says exactly wat the thread is going to entail.

One thing i'll say, while i agree that T4TFs modding is quite poor at times, i am NOT into the view that PHB is infallible, i feel he too definately baits people in the liverpool thread, although in a more subtle way.

PSI is an excellent mod in the soccer forum, despite me and her sometimes not seeing eye to eye, but at least she is open to discussions of the rules and application of them when the need arises.

tbh, i think the only solution to a lot of the problems is both Liverpool and Utd fans not being allowed to mod the soccer forum.

(this is not a dig at PHB, who i like as a poster despite some of our differences. its just a statement at how i feel the modding of the forum could be improved)

Hobart

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ban seems extremely harsh tbh.

Also, people using me as an example?

I have been banned for less than wat T4TF did.

I believe it was refered to it as, "derailing" the thread. probably fair enough on reflection.

If opposition fans are posting in the superthreads, they should show an element of respect to where they are imo, ie. not repeating the points over and over and over when the points are clearly pissing people off in the thread. He is more than right to air his point in the thread, but imo once it became apparent that it was developing into an argument T4TF should have started a "Steve Bennett/United" thread. Therefore people could avoid the topic if they wanted,and partake in the discussion if they so wished. but could have no complaints of baiting/trolling etc as the thread topic says exactly wat the thread is going to entail.

One thing i'll say, while i agree that T4TF is a poor mod, i am not into the view that PHB is infallible, i feel he too definately baits people in the liverpool thread, although in a more subtle way.

PSI is an excellent mod in the soccer forum, despite me and her sometimes not seeing eye to eye, but at least she is open to discussions of the rules and application of them when the need arises.

tbh, i think the only solution to a lot of the problems is both Liverpool and Utd fans not being allowed to mod the soccer forum.

On far more important matters...PSI is a SHE?

passive

Well... let's all calm down 'til we hear from the mods. Perhaps the permanent bit was a mistake/misclick, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the whole situation? That's happened before... I'm kinda with TBH's opinion above, but from within the mentality of trying to care, I can see the point Rockman is making and the modding does need to be looked at.

kaimera

Hobart wrote: »

On far more important matters...PSI is a SHE?

PSI & Tar are similar as regards misdirection about gender

Hobart

kaimera wrote: »

PSI & Tar are similar as regards misdirection about gender

Tar is defo a burd, we've kissed. Same with PSI, although she could have done me the courtesy of shaving before she hoovered the gob off me.

kaizersoze1980

Let's keep this on topic please.

There are questions that need answering, and serious issues that need looking at.

lordgoat

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ban seems extremely harsh tbh.

Also, people using me as an example?

I have been banned for less than wat T4TF did.

I believe it was refered to it as, "derailing" the thread. probably fair enough on reflection.

If opposition fans are posting in the superthreads, they should show an element of respect to where they are imo, ie. not repeating the points over and over and over when the points are clearly pissing people off in the thread. He is more than right to air his point in the thread, but imo once it became apparent that it was developing into an argument T4TF should have started a "Steve Bennett/United" thread. Therefore people could avoid the topic if they wanted,and partake in the discussion if they so wished. but could have no complaints of baiting/trolling etc as the thread topic says exactly wat the thread is going to entail.

One thing i'll say, while i agree that T4TFs modding is quite poor at times, i am NOT into the view that PHB is infallible, i feel he too definately baits people in the liverpool thread, although in a more subtle way.

PSI is an excellent mod in the soccer forum, despite me and her sometimes not seeing eye to eye, but at least she is open to discussions of the rules and application of them when the need arises.

tbh, i think the only solution to a lot of the problems is both Liverpool and Utd fans not being allowed to mod the soccer forum.

(this is not a dig at PHB, who i like as a poster despite some of our differences. its just a statement at how i feel the modding of the forum could be improved)

Not often that we agree (apart from Ryan A) great post.

The banning is a disgrace and should be over turned. Def not a perm ban.

GuanYin

Right. Apologies for the delay. I'm 7 hours of a timezone out so I tend to take an evening shift.

Lets deal with the actual ban issue first.

Rockman, I posted on the thread way before you arrived telling the posters to "grow up" and that there is nothing wrong with making the point T4TF was making. It was a mild warning, ambiguous at best, but I think most posters would have gotten my intention from it.

Whatever about that, your post was 1) clearly against the rules - you posted specifically with the singular intention of insult another member of the forum (mod or not). 2) clearly in contempt of the rules. - if you hadn't said, I don't care if I'm banned, I'd probably have given yo a week ban and left it at that. Instead, you said a big F-U to the rules. Thats a complete nono from where I'm sitting.

When you joined soccer, you agreed to abide by the rules. Not only here, did you not abide by the rules, you implied you were purposefully and willfully defying them. I don't want to moderate someone who doesn't care about the rules or the time I have put in to access requests and the rest (not to mention the abuse I take) ensuring the forum is somewhere not like football365.

Having said that, I believe my exact message to you was, until I see that you have some sort of respect for the forum and its rules, the ban is permanent. What I meant by that, is that I'm not putting a time on your ban. I'll review it when I think that you won't reoffend. Poor wording on my part.


Now the other issue. You all have a problem with T4TF. Thats nothing to do with me or the other soccer mods. First off, I'd like to say, its a bit of a joke. Some of the posters here are very friendly with another Liverpool poster : "Mr Alan" who quite frankly, posts far moe inciteful things in the same thread. We get the same complaints about Mr Alan of course (as well he knows) but the difference here is, that Mr Alan isn't a mod so hasn't actioned things in the past that may have been unpopular. Nothing T4TF posted is any worse than things Mr Alan has posted or indeed other users who don't get the level of abuse in this thread. If anyone, anyone disagrees with that, they really need a reality check.

Regardless, if you have a problem with me or any other mod, causing trouble in a thread is not the way to go about it. We have a thread for it, we have helpdesk, we have feedback, we have a cmod, we have smods and we have admins. We have those things do users don't go mad in a forum thread and cause a load of crap.

There are a core group of users in soccer, who are quite close. Its a good thing, makes the forum a community and puts it above most other soccer communities. They sometimes lose sight of the fact that they still need to follow the rules. When one of their number does something wrong, they get mad, which is understandable. But they can't or shouldn't get special treatment, nor should we.

Last night, they went OTT. In a thread. I banned DesF for deliberately trolling the forum. I didn't want to. I like DesF, I think the forum is a million times better for him being there. He didn't give me any choice with his actions. The same with alot of other posters.

And thats where it lies. You can all complain about a mod or user, but the minute you start breaking the rules, you lose all rights or stance to have a moral high ground on this. If you want to make a change in a forum, do it the right way or not at all.

Rockman, I presume you are familiar with the rules. When you break them, I need to act with an appropriate measure. My ban was appropriate to your actions imho. That is not to say I'm not willing to discuss it. But when you sign off an action with "I don't care if I'm banned" well then I don't care if you are banned either. Still, kudos to how you dealt with this. It works well in your favor


But take it from my point of view. I like alot of the soccer posters so when I see them go and act like children, it puts me in a terrible situation regarding moderation. You all know how to do things in an adult manner. Can't you just try it for once?

Xavi6

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

Let's keep this on topic please.

There are questions that need answering, and serious issues that need looking at.

I'm sorry. I tried to resist but just couldn't -





Do carry on.......

tbh

PSI wrote: »

But take it from my point of view. I like alot of the soccer posters so when I see them go and act like children, it puts me in a terrible situation regarding moderation. You all know how to do things in an adult manner. Can't you just try it for once?

deffo a woman.

lordgoat

Thanks for clearing up the Rockman decision, i can see your reasoning and accept it.

However.

OK Des F got banned for deliberately trolling. Fair enough, but half of T4TF's posts that day were guilty of that. Well that's my opinion from reading them a day later, if i was online and read them at the time i prob would have commented to the same. The fact the soccer forum has lost a lot of decent people for however long and others that have done pretty much the same thing are still there smacks of double standards, regardless of being mod or not.

kaizersoze1980

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm sorry. I tried to resist but just couldn't -





Do carry on.......

I actually lol'd

cúnt

lordgoat

I laughed my ass off at that pic, it's a cracker.

homerjay2005

PSI wrote: »

But take it from my point of view. I like alot of the soccer posters so when I see them go and act like children, it puts me in a terrible situation regarding moderation. You all know how to do things in an adult manner. Can't you just try it for once?

so how do you feel when you see mods acting like children? im not discussing my ban on here, because it will go nowhere, but this thread could be started by many people and all go the same route. theres a trend developed here and it routes from the same base.

theres far to many easy bannings on here, i moderate a club forum and some of the stuff on it borders on the club being sued, but I just delete it and move on, bannings are not worth the hassle that comes with it. and the forum works well cos i apply common sense and i generally love doing the modding. no dont get me wrong, if bad language and racism for example amongest others are being used, then that person should be site banned immediately. however,most of the bannings on soccer are pathetic and just lack common sense. this is an internet forum lads, now a school playground. soccer is a very touchy subject and the rules, well,dunno if rules is the correct word, maybe something along the line of a code of conduct would be better, are too much based on personal opinion. trolling is a matter of personal opinion really.

GuanYin

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so how do you feel when you see mods acting like children? im not discussing my ban on here, because it will go nowhere, but this thread could be started by many people and all go the same route. theres a trend developed here and it routes from the same base.

I assume you mean soccer mods in the soccer forum?

I don't see anything that T4TF has posted that is any worse than anything that other posters have posted in opposing team threads. The difference here is alot of users with an axe to grind.

He repeated his comment because he was arguing a point. I see no rule against that either.

In any case, I, ME, PSI, was the one who caused this thread. Not T4TF. And I have outlined my reasons above. I take no joy in banning people but I'll mod the forum strictly as you know.

theres far to many easy bannings on here, i moderate a club forum and some of the stuff on it borders on the club being sued, but I just delete it and move on, bannings are not worth the hassle that comes with it. and the forum works well cos i apply common sense and i generally love doing the modding.

With respect, how many users does your forum have? On top of that, cast an eye back in time to when we tried that approach.

Mr Alan wrote:

Ban seems extremely harsh tbh.

Also, people using me as an example?

I have been banned for less than wat T4TF did.

I believe it was refered to it as, "derailing" the thread. probably fair enough on reflection.

If opposition fans are posting in the superthreads, they should show an element of respect to where they are imo, ie. not repeating the points over and over and over when the points are clearly pissing people off in the thread. He is more than right to air his point in the thread, but imo once it became apparent that it was developing into an argument T4TF should have started a "Steve Bennett/United" thread. Therefore people could avoid the topic if they wanted,and partake in the discussion if they so wished. but could have no complaints of baiting/trolling etc as the thread topic says exactly wat the thread is going to entail.

Come on. If I were to ban you for everytime I saw a post on United threads by you that might upset someone, my ban button would be broken from over use.
I do seem to remember unbanning you and reversing an infraction against you for incidents very similar to this where my judgement at then end was "some people need to toughen the f*ck up". Don't tell me I got those decisions wrong too

ROCKMAN

PSI wrote: »

Right. Apologies for the delay. I'm 7 hours of a timezone out so I tend to take an evening shift.

Lets deal with the actual ban issue first.

Rockman, I posted on the thread way before you arrived telling the posters to "grow up" and that there is nothing wrong with making the point T4TF was making. It was a mild warning, ambiguous at best, but I think most posters would have gotten my intention from it.

Whatever about that, your post was 1) clearly against the rules - you posted specifically with the singular intention of insult another member of the forum (mod or not). 2) clearly in contempt of the rules. - if you hadn't said, I don't care if I'm banned, I'd probably have given yo a week ban and left it at that. Instead, you said a big F-U to the rules. Thats a complete nono from where I'm sitting.

When you joined soccer, you agreed to abide by the rules. Not only here, did you not abide by the rules, you implied you were purposefully and willfully defying them. I don't want to moderate someone who doesn't care about the rules or the time I have put in to access requests and the rest (not to mention the abuse I take) ensuring the forum is somewhere not like football365.

Having said that, I believe my exact message to you was, until I see that you have some sort of respect for the forum and its rules, the ban is permanent. What I meant by that, is that I'm not putting a time on your ban. I'll review it when I think that you won't reoffend. Poor wording on my part.




Rockman, I presume you are familiar with the rules. When you break them, I need to act with an appropriate measure. My ban was appropriate to your actions imho. That is not to say I'm not willing to discuss it. But when you sign off an action with "I don't care if I'm banned" well then I don't care if you are banned either. Still, kudos to how you dealt with this. It works well in your favor


But take it from my point of view. I like alot of the soccer posters so when I see them go and act like children, it puts me in a terrible situation regarding moderation. You all know how to do things in an adult manner. Can't you just try it for once?

As for your first warning I have already stated as below did not see it as a mod warning .
As for the second and more stronger worded warning I address that too.

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Just log out and re read the thread ,
PSI wrote a post with grow up in it but I did not see it has a warning (offically) at the time taught it was just a other poster backing up t4tf which is ok, I posted one post after the banning post if that makes sense and this is the only one post deleted which I have posted in this thread.(must have been banned later. The post were I say bed is calling Champions ,Champions etc etc etc, and retired for the night.)
[B]This post( my last ) and the banning post were made nearly an hour before , PSI posted a thread warning, So I never seen it could use it as officially warning and re thought anything i may have posted fast a sleep at the time this warning was appearing .[/B]As for the 3 strike I have already stated on this thread , I have never been ban from any forum and I have throughtout time on boards just recieved just one WARNING (about a month back for posting a joke, LIVERPOOL joke in the UTD forum)

As for the ban post ,I posted it here so everone could see it

ROCKMAN wrote: »

These posts where earlier in the night I return to the forum about 4 or 5 hours later to catch up with thread seen that T4TF continued hence the " all night " comment so I posted this and it is this that got be banned

Quote:
" Originally Posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
all night

just back from the pub , had a few drinks with a few very disappionted Chelsea fans , but even drunk they showed more class than you will in a million years
I REALLY HOPE WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THIS THREAD YOU WILL BE A SHAMED.

you sir acted like a brat tonight.

if this gets me a ban so be it. "


think this ban bit was a mistake and I think PSI had a problem with it too , But I will wait and see any responses from PSI to see if this is the case

Yes I did break it down to try explain myself

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Do you think there is a difference in "You sir acted like a brat tonight " and " you sir are a brat ,or as you "chose to act the muppet"
Because I do.
i was attacking his behaviour not the person.

" I hope when you look back at this thread you are ashamed "
again not personnal but questioning his actions.

Dragging of topic Yes maybe but no difference in what he was doing all night.

QUESTIONING HIS CLASS . YES PERSONNAL .AND NOW WHEN I READ IT BACK and I DO DESERVE A BAN FOR THIS but in my defence when I was typing it I was trying to say the difference that was been showed by other fans and trying to state that maybe he could learn from their behavior a point I fail to express , I worded it so wrong , Hands up

Also I have not question the Ban , just the harshness and have asked is there anywhere I can appeal the permanent part.

as for saying F/U TO THE RULES by saying if I get banned so be it , I was refering to getting ban for question a mod's Behaviour and did not mean F**K the rules and if it comes across like that I am sorry.

GuanYin

ROCKMAN wrote: »

as for saying F/U TO THE RULES by saying if I get banned so be it , I was refering to getting ban for question a mod's Behaviour and did not mean F**K the rules and if it comes across like that I am sorry.

I appreciate the careful wording of your post not being a direct insult against T4TF.

However, had the balance of your post in the UNITED thread not been so heavily tipped towards commenting about TFTF and ignoring the actual topic of United, to quote Colin Farrell "like a big fat f*cking retarded f*cking black girl on a see-saw, opposite, say, a midget", I might have seen validity in your claims.

d22ontour

PSI wrote: »

Regardless, if you have a problem with me or any other mod, causing trouble in a thread is not the way to go about it. We have a thread for it, we have helpdesk, we have feedback, we have a cmod, we have smods and we have admins.

You seem to be implying that all of the above are ways of sorting problems but i can't agree with the feedback part in my case.

I was banned for the 2nd time from Soccer for one week which was justly deserved in hindsight. Alas my mistake was making a feedback thread at the time as i ' wrongly' thought/accused the mod in question of editing and deleting my posts when infact all he did was delete them.That feedback thread turned my 1 week ban into a permanent ban so making a feedback thread only made my situation worse.

I made the feedback thread thinking i was right when infact i was wrong and because of my actions only got my ban permanent.One would think feedback would have no bearing on bans but alas ....

homerjay2005

PSI wrote: »

In any case, I, ME, PSI, was the one who caused this thread. Not T4TF. And I have outlined my reasons above. I take no joy in banning people but I'll mod the forum strictly as you know.

well yes and no. while you caused this by banning him, this is about more than just one incident. you think that this would be 10 pages if it was just about you and this banning? no way, this has been brewing for a while and there has been a general discontent with this other mod for quite some time. this thread while centered around the rockman issue, is actually a wider issue that has touched a nerve. we all cant be wrong.

Modding is not an easy job and without you all, this place would not be the success that it is. speaking for myself, all i want is a place to post about the team I support and not to have to worry bout hurting somebodys feelings and being banned for it. these bans are silly and IMO, an abuse of power.

Sherifu

d22ontour wrote: »

I made the feedback thread thinking i was right when infact i was wrong and because of my actions only got my ban permanent.One would think feedback would have no bearing on bans but alas ....

You never told us if you were drunk that night.

*curious*

You made some serious accusations. I find it hard to feel sorry for you.

GuanYin

d22ontour wrote: »

I made the feedback thread thinking i was right when infact i was wrong and because of my actions only got my ban permanent.One would think feedback would have no bearing on bans but alas ....

First I heard about this. Feedback is a right of reply as far as I'm concerned. Mind you, if you had abused the mod in question or been insulting and also turned out to be making a valid claim, I'd be on the fence to your fate.

Did you apologise to the mod after you found out you were wrong?

In any case, I'm not an admin, I can't do anything with feedback complaints except present my opinion and my reasoning. My point, which you replied to, was that there is a chain of escalation for complaints. None of them reside in forum threads.

homerjay2005 wrote:

well yes and no. while you caused this by banning him, this is about more than just one incident. you think that this would be 10 pages if it was just about you and this banning? no way, this has been brewing for a while and there has been a general discontent with this other mod for quite some time. this thread while centered around the rockman issue, is actually a wider issue that has touched a nerve. we all cant be wrong.

With respect, get your own thread then. The Rockman issue is soley due to Rockman not having the common sense to make his complaint in a correct manner and further compounding that by tell us he didn't care that it wasn't the correct manner (or at least telling us he didn't care about the consequences).

Rockman btw, in light of your posts here and PMs to me, your ban is reduced to 2 weeks from today.

Alls well that ends well folks.

GuanYin

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

He is creating havoc and serious unrest in a forum that he moderates.

Actually no. Some users (who should really know better) are creating havoc and serious unrest in the forum.

As I said, I've no problem with complaints about me, the forum or the rules or any aspect thereof, just complain maturely in the correct way.