Permanent ban. is it over the Top.??

ROCKMAN

PSI wrote: »

I appreciate the careful wording of your post not being a direct insult against T4TF.

However, had the balance of your post in the UNITED thread not been so heavily tipped towards commenting about TFTF and ignoring the actual topic of United, to quote Colin Farrell "like a big fat f*cking retarded f*cking black girl on a see-saw, opposite, say, a midget", I might have seen validity in your claims.

From the final whistle my post where all celebrating back slapping posts
I post twice to T4TF before the banned post (sorry have no way of posting them) if any one can post them cheers (in the interest of fairness )
The first was "I bite post" where i response to his question and I yes the ref had a shocker but say that post it over and over on the night we lift the title Is trolling , At this point I notice he is a mod and say that a mod trolling is disgraceful.
My other post was a joke about going for a pint and buying him one to get rid of that sour taste
He replied to this with a joke/comment about my red tint specs a referance to my ref shocker post ,well thats what I took it for.

So Heavly tipped I really don't think so.
__________________

KevIRL

PSI wrote: »

I assume you mean soccer mods in the soccer forum?

I don't see anything that T4TF has posted that is any worse than anything that other posters have posted in opposing team threads. The difference here is alot of users with an axe to grind.

He repeated his comment because he was arguing a point. I see no rule against that either.

In any case, I, ME, PSI, was the one who caused this thread. Not T4TF. And I have outlined my reasons above. I take no joy in banning people but I'll mod the forum strictly as you know.



With respect, how many users does your forum have? On top of that, cast an eye back in time to when we tried that approach.



Come on. If I were to ban you for everytime I saw a post on United threads by you that might upset someone, my ban button would be broken from over use.
I do seem to remember unbanning you and reversing an infraction against you for incidents very similar to this where my judgement at then end was "some people need to toughen the f*ck up". Don't tell me I got those decisions wrong too

I have zero axe to grind with TFTF, like I said I rarely post in the soccer forum.

I'm sorry that this thread has turned out to be about him as well as the banning, but thats the way these things go somehow. The fact remains his postings yesterday in the Utd thread were definitely looking to get a rrise out of Utd supporters on the day their team won the league.

From my observations, this sort of thing is not allowed on the soccer forum in general, and its very poor form of a mod of said forum to stoop to such a level.

I also replied to a reported post on this very matter last night at 21:13....check page 2 of the reported post forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055291850

So the issue was raised then.

It does strike me as unusual that TFTF is not subject to the same consequences that regular users of the forum would be. And from the soccer forum point of view this could set a dangerous precident.

homerjay2005

PSI wrote: »

With respect, get your own thread then.

to be honest, i dont want nor need one. this has gone on now for 13 pages and other people have said the same things that i have been feeling for months. it would be the same stuff over and over again and P*ss people off.

PSI wrote: »

Alls well that ends well folks.

is it really? the rockman issue maybe, but judging from reading some of the senior mods/admins, i got the impression they were going to look into some of the points raised by several of the lads on here. maybe im wrong though.

ROCKMAN

PSI wrote: »

I appreciate the careful wording of your post not being a direct insult against T4TF.

However, had the balance of your post in the UNITED thread not been so heavily tipped towards commenting about TFTF and ignoring the actual topic of United, to quote Colin Farrell "like a big fat f*cking retarded f*cking black girl on a see-saw, opposite, say, a midget", I might have seen validity in your claims.

PSI wrote: »

First I heard about this. Feedback is a right of reply as far as I'm concerned. Mind you, if you had abused the mod in question or been insulting and also turned out to be making a valid claim, I'd be on the fence to your fate.

Did you apologise to the mod after you found out you were wrong?

In any case, I'm not an admin, I can't do anything with feedback complaints except present my opinion and my reasoning. My point, which you replied to, was that there is a chain of escalation for complaints. None of them reside in forum threads.



With respect, get your own thread then. The Rockman issue is soley due to Rockman not having the common sense to make his complaint in a correct manner and further compounding that by tell us he didn't care that it wasn't the correct manner (or at least telling us he didn't care about the consequences).

Rockman btw, in light of your posts here and PMs to me, your ban is reduced to 2 weeks from today.Alls well that ends well folks.

Thank you. but as I spend 95% of my time here on the soccer forum , the Man UTD thread in particular, The fact I am going to miss the build up and all that to a massive game on the 21st , Is a kick in the teeth but I repect your decision

_blank_

PSI wrote: »

Now the other issue. You all have a problem with T4TF. Thats nothing to do with me or the other soccer mods. First off, I'd like to say, its a bit of a joke. Some of the posters here are very friendly with another Liverpool poster : "Mr Alan" who quite frankly, posts far moe inciteful things in the same thread. We get the same complaints about Mr Alan of course (as well he knows) but the difference here is, that Mr Alan isn't a mod so hasn't actioned things in the past that may have been unpopular. Nothing T4TF posted is any worse than things Mr Alan has posted or indeed other users who don't get the level of abuse in this thread. If anyone, anyone disagrees with that, they really need a reality check.

The actual problem here is that when a Mod starts stirring shíte with the users, he has crossed a line, imo.

PSI wrote: »

Last night, they went OTT. In a thread. I banned DesF for deliberately trolling the forum. I didn't want to. I like DesF, I think the forum is a million times better for him being there. He didn't give me any choice with his actions. The same with alot of other posters.

I never contested the ban, I accepted it, I'll be back (in a week? two?)

PSI wrote: »

And thats where it lies. You can all complain about a mod or user, but the minute you start breaking the rules, you lose all rights or stance to have a moral high ground on this. If you want to make a change in a forum, do it the right way or not at all.

There's nobody complaining about a user.

A lot of people seem to be complaining about the mod though, and with good reason.

He is goading a certain section of the Soccer Community into bans.

Why you can't see that, I do not know.

If Users go around trolling they get warnings, infractions and bans
(like Mr Alan has in the past). If the mod of the forum goes around trolling and goading and getting user's backs up, the users get warnings, infractions and bans.

That's hardly fair, is it?

PSI wrote: »

But take it from my point of view. I like alot of the soccer posters so when I see them go and act like children, it puts me in a terrible situation regarding moderation. You all know how to do things in an adult manner. Can't you just try it for once?

Isn't that what this thread is about?

Only, the Soccer Mods seem to have closed ranks. You have your opinion on T4TF's postings, and you don't seem to be for swaying. A lot of other people hold a fairly polar opposite view.

Can you not even acknowledge that they might have a point.

You talk about people's childishness, well your fellow moderator of soccer was just being a spiteful, vindictive so-and-so yesterday. That is clear. Why can't you see it?

homerjay2005

i propose that all banned united fans be put back in place for the CL final . i have a feeling that the next 2 weeks is only going to get worse and there will be a few more united fans being banned. how can this be prevented?

Mr.Nice Guy

Perhaps it would be best to ensure that the club threads, ie the Man United/Liverpool/Celtic threads, are kept solely for the fans of such clubs?

I think what bothered people most about T4TF's posts was that while we United fans were celebrating the win, he kept reiterating his belief that it was a disgrace for United to have won the match and thus the league. When this point was raised by others he kept on repeating his point. As such, the celebratory mood was dragged into an off-topic debate about the rights and wrongs of referees throughout the season.

I found myself in a similar situation to T4TF a few weeks back when Liverpool were knocked out of the Champions League by Chelsea. Someone raised a point in the Liverpool thread that Rafa Benitez was a better manager than SAF and I disagreed with this view. There was then a lot of abuse thrown my way, one guy also got banned, and some people accused me of being a troll. I wasn't being a troll, I was just taking up the point. But on reflection, perhaps these club threads aren't the best for dealing with serious points.

I'm not saying people like T4TF aren't entitled to their views (in fact I was happy to discuss his complaints and even raised a point with him about an incident earlier in the season involving Chelsea and Liverpool which he did not take up) but maybe it would be better if in future such views are kept to other threads such as the ones on the match itself?

That way people like T4TF and others who want to debate and analyse a match can do so, and at the same time people who simply wish to celebrate the result of a big game don't have to listen to heavy debates if they don't want to.

Just an idea.

kaimera

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i propose that all banned united fans be put back in place for the CL final . i have a feeling that the next 2 weeks is only going to get worse and there will be a few more united fans being banned. how can this be prevented?

By Utd fans growing a pair?

I recall a mod posting on the 'pool thread something about us being thicker skinned than we were making out to be. Why can't Utd fans do the same?

GuanYin

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is it really? the rockman issue maybe, but judging from reading some of the senior mods/admins, i got the impression they were going to look into some of the points raised by several of the lads on here. maybe im wrong though.

I don't see admins here. I see one senior mod (assuming you mean seamus).

Can I ask a question. At least two users here say they see me as impartial.

If this is the case, do you think that if I went through both the Liverpool and United threads I would find equally "baiting" (by the definition here, I don't think they were baiting) posts from United fans in the Liverpool thread and vice versa? I can think of a few posters offhand that have posted worse.

Frankly, I don't think there would have been quite the uproar had I posted that opinion (I agree for what its worth, as does United Legend Steve Bruce).

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

how can this be prevented?

Put T4TF on ignore is one way.

But then, you run the risk of not seeing warnings and other sundry troll-y posts from him, and if you don't heed the mod warnings, you get banned.

He has this sewn up now anyway.

Nothing will be done, and United fans will continue to bite at his bait.

He's good at it, I'll give him that.

One of the best I've seen.

Does he even know this thread exists?

I don't want to PM him, he might take it as an affront, the sensitive soul that he is.

Soccer forum seems over modded to be honest - I wouldn't have given a perm ban to the OP for that, especially given the circumstances of yesterday.

OP, drop a line in Helpdesk if you want some constructive criticism, I am not saying that your ban will be overturned but you won't get the noise and cats of a feedback thread.

_blank_

PSI wrote: »

I don't see admins here. I see one senior mod (assuming you mean seamus).

Can I ask a question. At least two users here say they see me as impartial.

You are on the side of your fellow Soccer Mod, afaics.

PSI wrote: »

If this is the case, do you think that if I went through both the Liverpool and United threads I would find equally "baiting" (by the definition here, I don't think they were baiting) posts from United fans in the Liverpool thread and vice versa?

You sure will.

But the fact remains, and it STILL hasn't been addressed, that when a moderator is acting like this, a line has been crossed.

PSI wrote: »

I can think of a few posters offhand that have posted worse.

Still doesn't make what he did any less disgraceful, imo.

PSI wrote: »

Frankly, I don't think there would have been quite the uproar had I posted that opinion (I agree for what its worth, as does United Legend Steve Bruce).

You are right.

Why?

You don't have a history of trolling United fans and then getting them banned off the forum.

He, frankly, does.

kaimera

Nothing will be done, and United fans will continue to bite at his bait.

If they bite, thats their own problem tbqh. Nobody is forcing them to reply.

Don't feed the trolls and all that?

_blank_

kaimera wrote: »

If they bite, thats their own problem tbqh. Nobody is forcing them to reply.

Don't feed the trolls and all that?

Indeed, but then the moderators usually kick the trolls out, warn, infract or ban them.

When it's a bloody moderator doing the trolling, there is something seriously amiss.

KevIRL

kaimera wrote: »

If they bite, thats their own problem tbqh. Nobody is forcing them to reply.

Don't feed the trolls and all that?

the issue is when the troll is a mod of the forum or more correctly tthe baiting posts come from a mod of the forum then that is a line crossed.

By TFTF posting in such a manner, and it being accepted, then surely the precedent is set for every poster on the forum to do likewise.

Thus sets up a forum where everyone can bait and goad other posters and as soon as someone 'bites' they get banned.


TBH Kaimera there's no way you would stand for that on the GAA board (where passions can also run high) and I dont see why it should be allowed on the Soccer forum either.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Soccer forum seems over modded to be honest

To be fair to PHB I think he does an excellent job in the United super thread, he lets things go and if it looks like they will boil over he calms things down by telling people to cop on, I post in that thread most often and for me it is ran very well.

As for the arguement in question, tis a load of nonsense from both sides and I'm sure if PHB was available and on the forum yesterday it would never have got to this point.

_blank_

Boggles wrote: »

I'm sure if PHB was available and on the forum yesterday it would never have got to this point.

That is not the point.

T4TF is supposedly a mod.

It's up to him to make sure it doesn't get to a point like this.

If he can't do that, then why is he a mod?

lordgoat

So the end result is Rockman gets a 2 week band and we can all troll as much as the mods?

GuanYin

DesF wrote: »

The actual problem here is that when a Mod starts stirring shíte with the users, he has crossed a line, imo.

Bullsh1t! You have "baited" as badly if not worse on the soccer forum.
As have many other users.

I never contested the ban, I accepted it, I'll be back (in a week? two?)

Wasn't it a month?

A week I believe.

Only, the Soccer Mods seem to have closed ranks. You have your opinion on T4TF's postings, and you don't seem to be for swaying. A lot of other people hold a fairly polar opposite view.

Where have we closed ranks? I'm here all alone defending myself for MY actions and giving MY opinion on what has happened.

Honestly I don't see "a lot of other people" I see people from a small pool of users who are known to have an axe to grind.

I haven't closed ranks at all. I've seen PHB post things just as irritating on the Liverpool thread.

This is how I see things:

T4TF is not universally adored by United fans. Most of this is down to the HJ2005 (who I should be catbanned right now but isn't) and a result of HJ2005 being too proud and not having enough common sense to know where and how to pick his battles.

T4TF posts in the United thread with a fair point.

United fans see their greatest enemy and immediately call him a troll.

T4TF responds by saying he's making a valid point.

United fans scream troll. (repeat this cycle several times).

United fans start making abusive posts and breaking rules. People get banned. Its all blamed on T4TF.

That is honestly what I've seen here.

Now if PHB were to ban Mr Alan, I can imagine liverpool fans going exactly the same way for him.

Likewise many people on this thread have posted in opposing team threads with equally inciteful comments.

So the way I see it is, if any action were to be taken against T4TF on this, I'd expect the same action to be taken against each and every soccer forum user that has done something similar and not been banned.

PSI, I think the point here is that TFTF was trolling his own forum.

Thats just not on.

Other mods are treated as other users, ban them if they get out of line but ffs, if a mod is trolling his own forum then its time for that mod to step down or seriously clean up his act.

Sully

Tbh, I think its time an admin/SMod looked this over.

KevIRL

Sully wrote: »

Tbh, I think its time an admin/SMod looked this over.

agreed totally (that will probably shock you Sully )

Sully

KevIRL wrote: »

agreed totally (that will probably shock you Sully )

:O (Damn, why the hell is an embarased smiley??! :O = SHOCK!)

GuanYin

So hold on are people making the point that T4TF is trolling but other people aren't.

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.

I fail to see the problem here. Users who troll get banned. Simple as.

Mods who troll their own fora are in a category worse than that as they are tasked to keep peace and stability in the forum.

kaimera

PSI wrote: »

So hold on are people making the point that T4TF is trolling but other people aren't.

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.

I think the point is that T4TF in their opinion was trolling and should have the same sanctions imposed on him as others who do it.

I'd like to add at this point I haven't read the soccer thread bar one or two posts from the OPs link.

{edit}

PHB is a good mod,

Like I said before, there have been posts/posters calling him a troll in the Liverpool thread for what amounts to the same as what T4TF has done.

It's no different imo. Just folks with an axe to grind.

lordgoat

PSI wrote: »

Bullsh1t! You have "baited" as badly if not worse on the soccer forum.
As have many other users.


Wasn't it a month?

A week I believe.



Where have we closed ranks? I'm here all alone defending myself for MY actions and giving MY opinion on what has happened.

Honestly I don't see "a lot of other people" I see people from a small pool of users who are known to have an axe to grind.

I haven't closed ranks at all. I've seen PHB post things just as irritating on the Liverpool thread.

This is how I see things:

T4TF is not universally adored by United fans. Most of this is down to the HJ2005 (who I should be catbanned right now but isn't) and a result of HJ2005 being too proud and not having enough common sense to know where and how to pick his battles.

T4TF posts in the United thread with a fair point.

United fans see their greatest enemy and immediately call him a troll.

T4TF responds by saying he's making a valid point.

United fans scream troll. (repeat this cycle several times).

United fans start making abusive posts and breaking rules. People get banned. Its all blamed on T4TF.

That is honestly what I've seen here.

Now if PHB were to ban Mr Alan, I can imagine liverpool fans going exactly the same way for him.

Likewise many people on this thread have posted in opposing team threads with equally inciteful comments.

So the way I see it is, if any action were to be taken against T4TF on this, I'd expect the same action to be taken against each and every soccer forum user that has done something similar and not been banned.

There is so much wrong with this.

This has nothing to do with Homerjay, how could it, he's been banned before the posts were made. If you're sayinh ManU fans are doing all this because of him and his ban, it's ludacris.

Fact is T4TF was way out of line on sunday and it's been ignored. Numerous people (many non-man u fans among them) have said this, it continues to be ignored.

PHB is a good mod, if he feels someone is out of line, it's a straight warning to the point there person knows exactly where they stand, if it continues - ban.

Everyone knows where they stand. Can this be said for T4TF. I rarely get on the wrong side of the mods, i like the banter in soccer, but what happened on sunday is plain and simply unfair treatment of regular posters.

Smod please.

leninbenjamin

PSI wrote: »

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

forgive me if i'm wrong, but haven't at least Des and Alan (among numerous others) been punished more than once for their trolling? can the same be said about T4TF (or indeed KdjaCl that night he ran amok)?

homerjay2005

PSI wrote: »

T4TF is not universally adored by United fans. Most of this is down to the HJ2005 (who I should be catbanned right now but isn't) and a result of HJ2005 being too proud and not having enough common sense to know where and how to pick his battles.

uncalled for to be honest. i dont slag you off in public, you should do the same. people make up their own mind, i have not influenced anybody. the term mountain and molehill comes to mind here.

people know what i got banned for, people know the facts and made up their own mind. now as i said, i dont want to discuss my ban on here, this is not my thread, its an open discussion where people are discussing their views in a rather tame manner it has to be said.

lordgoat

PSI wrote: »

So hold on are people making the point that T4TF is trolling but other people aren't.

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.

Well you've already said once in this thread tht you banned des for trolling...