Permanent ban. is it over the Top.??

_blank_

PSI wrote: »

Bullsh1t! You have "baited" as badly if not worse on the soccer forum.
As have many other users.

Again, of course I have, most everyone has at one stage.

But I've been warned for it.

It's relatively "ok" for me to bait people for a response, I'm not the mod of soccer. If it gets out of hand, I'd be banned.

T4TF, on the other hand, is baiting people, and when the bite, either he, or another mod is dishing out bans.

You are of the opinion that he was making a valid point. Others are of the opinion that he was trolling.

He was definitely trolling. In my opinion. Very sly way to do it too. Whatever respect I had left for him is gone now.

I'm sure he cares.

PSI wrote: »

Wasn't it a month?

A week I believe.

Woohoo, back in for the CL Final

Thanks.

PSI wrote: »

Where have we closed ranks? I'm here all alone defending myself for MY actions and giving MY opinion on what has happened.

Yep, fair enough.

Still, it'll be interesting to see if he himself posts in this thread.

PSI wrote: »

Honestly I don't see "a lot of other people" I see people from a small pool of users who are known to have an axe to grind.

He made the axe himself, imo. He's been purposely pissing off the United fans for a while now. It's no behaviour for a mod. Would you agree? (please, please answer this now).

PSI wrote: »

I haven't closed ranks at all. I've seen PHB post things just as irritating on the Liverpool thread.

The difference is that he doesn't go OTT, and he certainly doesn't go dishing out bans, or have the other mods do it for him.

PSI wrote: »

This is how I see things:

T4TF is not universally adored by United fans.

:eek: Whatever gave you that idea

PSI wrote: »

Most of this is down to the HJ2005 (who I should be catbanned right now but isn't) and a result of HJ2005 being too proud and not having enough common sense to know where and how to pick his battles.

PSI wrote: »

T4TF posts in the United thread with a fair point.

t4tf TROLLED in a thread with a TROLL-Y post. And kept at it. And kept at it.

PSI wrote: »

United fans see their greatest enemy and immediately call him a troll.

He was trolling.

PSI wrote: »

T4TF responds by saying he's making a valid point.

Again, and again, and again.

He should have given up, his actions were not very mod-like. He was stoking the fire, and he'll continue to stoke it until he burns the United thread and all of it's inhabitants.

If he wants a United free forum, why doesn't he ask for one?

But the way he's slowly getting rid of the United fans, by whatever means, is disgraceful.

How many of the recent bans that involve T4TF, either directly or indirectly, are to United fans?

PSI wrote: »

United fans start making abusive posts and breaking rules. People get banned.

So it worked out quite nicely for him.

His actions were not becoming of a mod.

PSI wrote: »

Its all blamed on T4TF.

Fair enough, he doesn't shoulder all of the blame, but he not not totally innocent here either.

He knew what he was doing, and it's worked out quite nicely for him.

Another United poster gone by the wayside.

As I said, I have a certain admiration for the way he's going about it.

He even has you fooled.

KevIRL

kaimera wrote: »

I think the point is that T4TF in their opinion was trolling and should have the same sanctions imposed on him as others who do it.

I'd like to add at this point I haven't read the soccer thread bar one or two posts from the OPs link.

{edit}


Like I said before, there have been posts/posters calling him a troll in the Liverpool thread for what amounts to the same as what T4TF has done.

It's no different imo. Just folks with an axe to grind.

If yout would like to have a look

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055095119&page=821

goes on for about 6-7 pages from here.

GuanYin

Deleted User wrote: »

I fail to see the problem here. Users who troll get banned. Simple as.

Mods who troll their own fora are in a category worse than that as they are tasked to keep peace and stability in the forum.

Actually no.

You see the definition of trolling being handed out to T4TF, is not a definition of trolling applied to other users.

In other words, other users post the same sort of things and don't get banned. I've named some here.

I just want to know, from the soccer forum users, do you want me to go back and look at these incidents in same light as you are casting on T4TF's posts? And if so, do you expect me to atke action?

As for an smod, I don't think frankly, that this is in their remit as I'm a soccer mod here and they'll have to override my judgement too (no offence smod people).

Admins on the other hand.......

GuanYin

leninbenjamin wrote: »

forgive me if i'm wrong, but haven't at least Des and Alan (among numerous others) been punished more than once for their trolling? can the same be said about T4TF (or indeed KdjaCl that night he ran amok)?

Trolling in the sense that DesF was banned for deliberately inciting trouble not for giving an unwelcome opinion about soccer and Mr Alan was banned for not listening to me repeated warnings on some matter.

The one time Mr Alan was punished for having an opinion in a United thread, I unbanned him, apologised and removed the infraction.

Noone has been banned for giving an opinion that is not breaking forum rules.

lordgoat

PSI wrote: »

You see the definition of trolling being handed out to T4TF, is not a definition of trolling applied to other users.

In other words, other users post the same sort of things and don't get banned. I've named some here.

But you banned one of them for trolling? Or have you forgotten?

The Muppet

It's sad to see the same old problem raise its heads time and time again on the soccer forum. It's time that someone took notice of whats happening there.

Is it not strange that its mostly Mancheter United Supporters who are having problems? The powers that be here should now be asking theselves why that is. Is it that we are a troublesome lot or is there something else at play. How come members that persistanly get banned on the soccer forum can contribute positively to other fora on the site without causing problems?

In the first four pages of this thread there are three or four United supporters who have bans from there, I have a perm ban myself . It would be very interesting to see how many bans are issued to United supporters v supporters of other clubs. Maybe I,m wrong but my felling is that If you argue in the same manner in support of United as others do against them the United supporter will be the one to get into trouble.

Whitewash man made some spot on posts about the soccer forum in the thread requesting a soccerdome forum a few months ago. I hope that the admins would have a look at his observations and act on them. Otherwise we are going to be back here time and time again with the same old argument the only difference being the username of the United user banned . A lot of time and effort has gone into sorting the problems but some of the real issues have never been addressed.

_blank_

PSI wrote: »

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.

I'm currently banned for trolling. Am I not?

Deleted User wrote: »

I fail to see the problem here. Users who troll get banned. Simple as.

like I am currently.

I have no problem with the ban. I WAS trolling.

At least i can admit it though.

Deleted User wrote: »

Mods who troll their own fora are in a category worse than that as they are tasked to keep peace and stability in the forum.

Yes, this is the actual problem.

But it's being ignored.

lordgoat

Reminds me of chief wiggum... Dig up!

GuanYin

Loardgoat, DesF - see post 215.

Muppet, seeing as we have a united fan, a liverpool fan and 2 non-EPL fans here, I don't quite see where you're going with this.

I don't think any Man United fans here would see me or kjadcl as biased against United.

leninbenjamin

PSI wrote: »

You see the definition of trolling being handed out to T4TF, is not a definition of trolling applied to other users.

the point is not the mere trolling. the point is T4TF postings alienated, and (subtly) created hostility between himself and subgroup of soccer users. as a result this obviously creates a huge dent in his credibility as a mod. the issue of whether the definition of trolling applied on T4TF is different to others is entirely irrelevant. his actions as a user undermine is ability to perform his moderating duties, which is what most people here find the unacceptable aspect.

lordgoat

PSI wrote: »

Loardgoat, DesF - see post 215.

That doesn't explain a thing

Eh i banned des for trolling but t4tf was merely giving his opinion over and over again in a condescending and patronising fashion.

I suggest going back and reading the thread again. I'm not being smart but i just re-read it and i don't understand how you can say he wasn't trolling.

Well i can, if you do say he was then he would have to face what happened des ...

I'm with leninben on this. His actions are unacceptable as a mod.

muffler

kaimera wrote: »

If they bite, thats their own problem tbqh. Nobody is forcing them to reply.

Christ I cant believe you posted that.

So you can troll all you want so long as you are a mod - thats what you are saying.

Bad form.

6th

PSI wrote: »

So hold on are people making the point that T4TF is trolling but other people aren't.

Or are they making the point that T4TF shouldn't be allowed troll, but its ok for Des, Mr Alan, Archimedes and anyone else from a long list to do it?

If T4TF is trolling, and I don't agree, then any sanction against him should be matched for all other users who I see having done the same.

I thinks its a case of T4TF should be able to troll and face the same action/inaction as every other user of the forum.

People seem to be asking that he either be a user and treated as one or be a mod and act like one. Personally I think mods should be free to be regular posters in the forums they moderate. T4TF has a good user/mod balance and thats easy to see in the fact it wasnt him who handed out the ban.

Part of the problem here is that the users wont report posts because he's a mod when that exactly what they should do. What they shouldnt do it question his action or modding in thread.

kaimera

muffler wrote: »

Christ I cant believe you posted that.

So you can troll all you want so long as you are a mod - thats what you are saying.

Bad form.

No.

The problem with trolls is people replying to them is what I was getting at.

6th

muffler wrote: »

Christ I cant believe you posted that.

So you can troll all you want so long as you are a mod - thats what you are saying.

Bad form.

No, if someone trolls then they should report the posts. The report post function is there for any posts that break the charter. I'd have no issue with my own posts being reported on the forum I mod.

Otacon

kaimera wrote: »

No.

The problem with trolls is people replying to them is what I was getting at.

Do you think T4TF was trolling?

kaimera

kaimera wrote: »

No.

The problem with trolls is people replying to them is what I was getting at.

When the troll is the forums mod is a different story.

muffler

PSI wrote: »

You see the definition of trolling being handed out to T4TF, is not a definition of trolling applied to other users.

In other words, other users post the same sort of things and don't get banned. I've named some here.

What do you mean by that? Im lost tbh

PSI wrote: »

I just want to know, from the soccer forum users, do you want me to go back and look at these incidents in same light as you are casting on T4TF's posts? And if so, do you expect me to atke action?

As you know you cant take any action (moderation) against a mod of the same forum. Or do you meant that you will take it up with one of the SMods or Admins?

PSI wrote: »

As for an smod, I don't think frankly, that this is in their remit as I'm a soccer mod here and they'll have to override my judgement too (no offence smod people).

Admins on the other hand.......

I thought that was one of the functions of an Smod.


Dont get me wrong here PSI Im not having a go. As I said earlier I have read this thread in its entirety and from what has been posted in this thread it appears that you are prepared to turn a blind eye on the postings of a fellow forum mod.

Calina

homerjay2005 wrote: »

.... i have a feeling that the next 2 weeks is only going to get worse and there will be a few more united fans being banned. how can this be prevented?

this tells me all I need to know about the soccer forum. The way that united fans can avoid being banned is if said united fans don't act like muppets. Is that so hard to understand?

kaizersoze1980

PSI, you made some valid points and fair play to you for writing such a long post.
However, there is a big problem with T4TF at the minute.
He has lost any respect and credibility that anyone had for his modding ability in the soccer forum.
He has in effect, lost the forum and I feel his position is untenable.
You come across as a decent fair minded mod, so why can't he act like this too?
Regarding your point about Mr Alan, he isnt malicious or devious in his postings, he doesnt post to deliberately create havoc and unrest.
T4TF is sly and manipulative

kaimera

Otacon wrote: »

Do you think T4TF was trolling?

Do you?

Like I said, I havent read the thread in question fully, tl;dr comes to mind [when i have more time] but from what I've gathered from here is the Utd fans+more feel he was trolling, mod feel he was just putting a point across.

My point about the troll was a general comment.

muffler

kaimera wrote: »

No.

The problem with trolls is people replying to them is what I was getting at.

Yeah thats fair enough and I fully agree with it.

But if a mod is trolling, especially in the forum he/she moderates, then quite simply the same rules should apply to him/her.

muffler

Sabotage wrote: »

No, if someone trolls then they should report the posts. The report post function is there for any posts that break the charter. I'd have no issue with my own posts being reported on the forum I mod.

I couldnt agree more.

KevIRL

Sabotage wrote: »

No, if someone trolls then they should report the posts. The report post function is there for any posts that break the charter. I'd have no issue with my own posts being reported on the forum I mod.

There was a post from TFTF reported. I even replied to to that post on the reported posts forum.

The Muppet

PSI wrote: »

Muppet, seeing as we have a united fan, a liverpool fan and 2 non-EPL fans here, I don't quite see where you're going with this.

We have the same problems on the soccer forum over and over. The issues need to be addressed properly and not just the usual scapegoats getting the raw end of the stick time and time again as it has been up until now.

Mr. Presentable

The Muppet wrote: »

We have the same problems on the soccer forum over and over. The issues need to be addressed properly and not just the usual scapegoats getting the raw end of the stick time and time again as it has been up until now.

There is a solution. Permaban all the known trouble makers now, be they mods or mere humans! Everyone knows who they are, a small group, several have been singing on this very thread. Band wagoners, I think they like to be called, who see a chance for self gratification and jump on it. The OP has had his case heard and clarified and resolved, so why are we still here.

PSI, I don't know why you would ever want that job.

kaizersoze1980

homerjay2005 wrote: »

uncalled for to be honest. i dont slag you off in public, you should do the same. people make up their own mind, i have not influenced anybody. the term mountain and molehill comes to mind here.

people know what i got banned for, people know the facts and made up their own mind. now as i said, i dont want to discuss my ban on here, this is not my thread, its an open discussion where people are discussing their views in a rather tame manner it has to be said.

None of my posts in this thread today were in support of, or because of what happened HJ2005

I witnessed T4TF trolling the united thread last night, and called him a farce of a mod. I got banned for this, by, you guessed it T4TF.

GuanYin

Sabotage wrote: »

I thinks its a case of T4TF should be able to troll and face the same action/inaction as every other user of the forum.

No, I don't believe I said that. What I said was, his posts weren't trolling by the definition used in soccer, any more than the posts that we didn't act on from other users are trolling posts by the definition used in soccer.

Look people, you can't have it both ways. You can't say "lets have a lenient forum where we can have banter, except from the mod, because, you know, we don't like him and he's a mod...booooooo!!!"

What I'm saying is, we let other people make comments that you are now, in this context calling trolly, and noone says a thing.

There is no "its ok for users but shameful for a mod" we ALL operate under thesame rules. That isn't up for negotiation.

So I'm just letting you all know, that if this turns out to be a case where T4TF's posts are deem unacceptable, then action will be taken on ALL similar posts by all users.

You can't give out about rules notbeing applied equally and then expect rules not to be applied equally.

SO take a good long hard look at your previous posts here.

GuanYin

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

I witnessed T4TF trolling the united thread last night, and called him a farce of a mod. I got banned for this, by, you guessed it T4TF.

If you'd called me a farce of a mod in a thread, you'd be perm banned.

You and you alone are responsible for your posts and your actions.

PSI

PSI wrote: »

Look people, you can't have it both ways. You can't say "lets have a lenient forum where we can have banter, except from the mod, because, you know, we don't like him and he's a mod...booooooo!!!"

First off, mods can't be treated as users, they are there to enforce the charter and hence it is not acceptable for them to break it.

So I'm just letting you all know, that if this turns out to be a case where T4TF's posts are deem unacceptable, then action will be taken on ALL similar posts by all users.

the fact that you have to actually say this implies that you know its not being enforced. You seem to be saying that other posters weren't banned but some were.. thats another failing of the mods who should have banned all posters who were trolling, but you can't excuse mods for trolling because users were.. its up to the mods to stop all trolling and breach of charters.