New Corolla Luna or '07 Avensis

Spit62500

Hi,

What do you think would be the best choice between a new Corolla Luna or a '07 Avensis Strata with roughly 25k km with the Avensis costing 1,500 euro more than the Corolla?

They're both diesels.

I drive on mostly back roads so the ability of the Avensis to overtake at higher speeds isn't much of an advantage to me. There doesn't seem to be that huge a difference between them to drive (at lower speeds anyway). I cover 50k km a year.

The Avensis has the advantage of traction control and will have nearer the average mileage on it when I trade again in two years (as it'll be a three year old car with 130k km as opposed to a two year old Corolla with 100k km). It'll have the disadvantage of the higher road tax rates (and they can surely only go up)...

So...

What'll I lose the most money on over two years? (bear in mind that the Avensis price new will drop by a grand more than the Corolla's next July)

Is that year old Avensis worth 1500 euro more than a new Corolla luna diesel?

And - which'd you buy and why? (Keep it to Toyotas please)

Thanks.

colm_mcm

The chances of you actually being able to get a new Corolla diesel Luna are pretty slim.

I'd go with the Avensis personally. more comfortable, better to drive. on the other hand the Corolla is better equipped, newer and less common...

When are you buying? now or July?

Spit62500

colm_mcm wrote: »

The chances of you actually being able to get a new Corolla diesel Luna are pretty slim.

That might be a problem - must have air con...

I'm ordering now for July - not too fussy about colour.

The other problem I have with the Avensis is that the one due out at the end of the year looks dramatically different - its probably not going to help the resale value of a car in a sector with reasonably hefty depreciation.

Do you reckon that the Avensis is worth the extra?

colm_mcm

you have pretty much zero chance of getting one for July, and if you do you, it's likely you won't be getting a big discount.

E92

You could always get one of those petrol Corollas cause "you'll save around €755 over a 3 year period" or better still get a petrol Avensis and "save up to €1,600 over 3 years" thanks to the completely misleading and absolutely disgraceful behaviour by Toyota Ireland with their ultra economical version of the truth in their current ads about VRT in July. I didn't realise that there are no diesel Toyotas on sale here, either I've seen so many people having the absolute cheek to stick a D-4D badge on their Toyota and making their petrol Toyotas do a very good imitation of diesel clatter, or else my mind plays a lot of games on me and I am suffering a serious state of delusion:rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:. Other makes are guilty of this too, but Toyota are constantly banging on about it and worse they've it stuck up on their website too.

No doubt there will be fools that will fall for this deception, though they have been misleading the public for several weeks on the 1.6 Avensis, so perhaps they're not fooling as many people as I might have thought.

Spit62500

E92 wrote: »

You could always get one of those petrol Corollas cause "you'll save around €755 over a 3 year period" or better still get a petrol Avensis and "save up to €1,600 over 3 years" thanks to the completely misleading and absolutely disgraceful behaviour by Toyota Ireland with their ultra economical version of the truth in their current ads about VRT in July. I didn't realise that there are no diesel Toyotas on sale here, either I've seen so many people having the absolute cheek to stick a D-4D badge on their Toyota and making their petrol Toyotas do a very good imitation of diesel clatter, or else my mind plays a lot of games on me and I am suffering a serious state of delusion:rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:. Other makes are guilty of this too, but Toyota are constantly banging on about it and worse they've it stuck up on their website too.

No doubt there will be fools that will fall for this deception, though they have been misleading the public for several weeks on the 1.6 Avensis, so perhaps they're not fooling as many people as I might have thought.

Colm was referring to supply restrictions with the Corolla saloon - I've already been told by more than one dealer that there are no current supply problems with the Auris and Avensis diesels for sale now or post July. I assume that the same applies to the Yaris but I haven't asked about it.

ninty9er

Personally, I'd have the Corolla, but hold off and see if they offer it withh the 2.2 D4-D after July.

Alternatively the Auris 2.0 D4-D is currently 30% VRT dropping to 20% and available in Luna spec only. Tax coming down to €290. Cost now approx €30,500 on the road. With 20% VRT that *should* equate to about €26,750.

****Do not buy an Avensis Aura or Strata**** It'll be hell trying to shift the feckin thing in a few years. A Luna will move much faster in a second hand market and even now they're becoming a lot more popular. I've seen way more 08 Lunas than Stratas or Auras.


Toyota aren't really misleading people by saying the 1.4 Auris and 1.6 Avensis are cheaper now. It's the truth, it just doesn't apply across the range, but they don't say it does. Ford, Volvo and Nissan are all doing the same thing, and if it sells cars, bully for them.

colm_mcm

ninty9er wrote: »

****Do not buy an Avensis Aura or Strata**** It'll be hell trying to shift the feckin thing in a few years. A Luna will move much faster in a second hand market and even now they're becoming a lot more popular. I've seen way more 08 Lunas than Stratas or Auras.
.

I disagree, the Luna is unlikely to hold the €2,000 margin over an Aura second hand, also, Lunas aren't the best selling Avensis this year (or any year!). Strata is, by a huge margin.

bazz26

1.6 litre model was always going to win over the 1.8 litre in Ireland up to now despite the minimal differences in running costs. Come July that will most likely change and I'd doubt you'll see a 1.6 litre option on the next generation Avensis, not in current VVTi form anyway. Come to think of it the VVTi engines are getting on a bit now and well overdue an overall or replacement.

ninty9er

colm_mcm wrote: »

Lunas aren't the best selling Avensis this year (or any year!). Strata is, by a huge margin.

They won't hold the €2k, but Stratas are 10 a penny at this stage and whenh that happens a car it gets difficult to shift. Though the Avensis will to a certain extent be a sort of exception. You won't get the Premium on tha Strata back either, it jsut makes an easier sell come time to get rid.

colm_mcm

VVT-i was advanced when it became pretty much standard fit across all petrol models in 2000. I suppose dual VVT-i will become more common soon. Can't see them following VW's approach of turbocharging small petrol engines.


Re: Strata model. I find that alloys and front fogs will sell it for some people, others like them because they have kids in the back and need locking rear windows - which the base model doesn't have. Whatever way you look at it, 1k is alright value for these 3 items and in my experience you'll always get the extra back in the trade in. (also the case with Mondeo LX etc)

The Luna is a good package at 1000 more than the Strata, but I wouldn't go as far as to say Strata and Aura models are to be avoided, as nint9er just did!

knifey_spoonie

Firstly you wont get a d4d luna anytime soon or even around july, i would say the 2l d4d auris would be a nice car, haven driven the 1.4 D4d there will be plenty of power in the 2l, you will be getting the same mpg as the 1.4 D4d, because of the 6 speed, and you have aircon

There wont be a 2.2 D4d corolla, there was even talk of bringing in a petrol corolla in 1.3, to drop it a vrt + tax band

And i have it on good merit that the drops/ rise's in price will be passed on to the customer, there will be no price hike from toyota anyway

colm_mcm

@knife fighter

can't see how a 1.3 petrol Corolla would have better emissions than the current 1.4 - it's a pretty heavy car. A 1.6 VVT-i Corolla would be nice, presuming the next gen Avensis drops the 1.6 model. it'd still want to be cheaper than a diesel to tempt people though.

Also, re: driving the Auris 2.0 D-4D, it's remarkably similar to the Avensis 2.0 D-4D! (same engine and gearbox!)

knifey_spoonie

I thought the same, about the corolla considering the 1.6 and 1.8 avensis have only 1 g of co2 in the difference, and the fact the 1.8 if more ecnomical, but thats what we were told last time one of the wise men were down

All i know is its damm confusing pricing diesel trade-ins for post july

E92

VVT-i is not even remotely close to "advanced". I'm sure it was back in the 60s when FIAT invented what we now call variable valve timing. But that's 40+ years ago!

It wasn't advanced even when Toyota first showed a lengthy 9 years ago!

And now Toyota are only getting around to doing it on both the intake and exhaust valve, something BMW did 10 years ago with Double VANOS, however that pales compared to Honda, who did it way back in the 80s with DOHC VTEC(who also had variable lift thrown in for good measure).

Will Toyota now bring in a 2.0 D-4D Corolla, or are we going to continue to be stuck with just the brace of 1.4s?

Surely they're going to cancel the 1.4 Corolla petrol and the 1.6 Avensis?

Strata is fairly poor compared to a Zetec Mondeo(which is actually nearly as good as a Luna Avensis).

They are by far the most popular though, as noted by colm_mcm.

Why is the Luna Corolla/Auris so hard to get? Do Toyota not try and guess what people want or do they think that because they are the best seller here that they can sell what they want and not what the customer wants?

A 1.8 in an Avensis is adequate but I think it would seriously struggle with anything less powerful, especially as the 1.6 manages 0-100 in 12 seconds compared to the 1.8's 10.3 seconds.

Surely Toyota are going to introduce a diesel in between the 1.4 and 2.0, I mean that is really a huge gap or is it just me that thinks so?

The 2.0 D-4D in the Corolla misses out on 16% VRT by the narrowest of margins, with a CO2 of 141 g/km, a pity as that car could really do with an engine of that much power considering that it is a bigger car than the previous generation Avensis(the one derived from the Carina E).

Good to hear that it appears that Toyota will be passing on the VRT savings too. Toyota have reasonably efficient diesels, so they will be fine, and the petrol Yaris is very frugal anyway too. Lexus must be having a lot of sleepless nights these days though. They're in a lot of trouble from July, with no diesels(bar the IS220 which pollutes more than a 211 bhp petrol Audi A4 and is in a higher VRT band than the said A4) and the hybrid rebate being slashed dramatically fortunately. At this stage it would appear that most brands will be following BMW/MINIs lead in doing so, and everyone wins as a result!

Spit62500

The 2.0 D4D Corolla will be so close to the Avensis in price and performance that it probably won't be worth their while - buyers will probably always go for the higher sector.

I think that supply issues with the Corolla are because only one factory (in Turkey) currently produces it. I think that I read that another factory will start production of it soon, resulting in greater supply next year. I'm not sure about the Auris Luna - I didn't know about supply issues but I thought that the factory in the UK could supply anything quickly enough.

Unfortunately, Toyota don't always give people what they want - air con on an Aygo for instance (standard on one model in the UK so supply not an issue). I know that its a low margin car but there's room for profit on the options. Peugeot and Ford will add most options that people might ask for but Toyota don't seem to be that bothered. There are more options available on the Auris than the previous Corolla so maybe a change is afoot.

I agree that a bigger diesel is needed to fit in between the other two - a 1.6 110 bhp diesel would be a nice fit.

The 1.4 Auris still sells in the UK so I reckon we'll keep seeing it here. Reckon you're right - the 1.6 Avensis must be a gonner in the medium term.

E92

Spit62500 wrote: »

I think that supply issues with the Corolla are because only one factory (in Turkey) currently produces it. I think that I read that another factory will start production of it soon, resulting in greater supply next year. I'm not sure about the Auris Luna - I didn't know about supply issues but I thought that the factory in the UK could supply anything quickly enough.

Unfortunately, Toyota don't always give people what they want - air con on an Aygo for instance (standard on one model in the UK so supply not an issue). I know that its a low margin car but there's room for profit on the options. Peugeot and Ford will add most options that people might ask for but Toyota don't seem to be that bothered. There are more options available on the Auris than the previous Corolla so maybe a change is afoot.

I agree that a bigger diesel is needed to fit in between the other two - a 1.6 110 bhp diesel would be a nice fit.

The 1.4 Auris still sells in the UK so I reckon we'll keep seeing it here. Reckon you're right - the 1.6 Avensis must be a gonner in the medium term.

I'd say the 1.6 will quietly go with the introduction of the new Avensis, where the base engine probably will be a diesel(they mightn't even bother importing a petrol at all).

I can't imagine why there would be a problem with supply for the Luna Auris, after all compared to Toyotas in the rest of Europe it's only average for equipment, while the Terra and Strata are positively spartan.

Indeed Toyota don't supply what the customer wants - look at how basic their cars are compared to rivals - the upmarket Luna version is the only one with chilled air(I know the Sol has Climate Control but how many of them do they sell- probably 0?) - the Golf has had aircon for over a year on all models. Ford sell plenty of 1.6 Focuses, while Toyota only bothers offering a 1.6 on the most expensive Sol version - I suppose that's their "excuse" for not offering the 1.6 in more afforfdable trim levels because sure look at how few 1.6 Aurises are out there(is it any wonder when the only one available costs €28,490, I know there is a Luna version, but how many people want a semi Automatic gearbox in this category?)

The Yaris STILL doesn't have any model available with air conditioning, Opel were selling Corsas with it as standard a whole 7 years ago, while Ford gave you aircon back in 1999 with the Fiesta Ghia.

Re: 1.4 Auris, yes I expect that they'll still sell it - it's not an Irish special so to speak, unlike the 1.6 Avensis where we are the only RHD country in the world to be offered such an engine, and similarly with the 1.4 petrol Corolla.

Indeed something like a 1.6 diesel would be a good idea, there is simply a huge gap between something with 90 bhp and 126 bhp - actually 126 bhp from a 2.0 diesel is already a bit weedy these days; BMW can manage 177 bhp from a 2.0(and 204 from a twin turbo 2.0), VAG can manage 170 bhp from the same capacity, and Renault can get 180 bhp from a 2.0 diesel these days too.

I hope the next Avensis will have a 2.0 diesel of at least 150 bhp, and it would do them no harm to have a 1.6 of around 110-120 bhp either.

colm_mcm

E92 wrote: »

VVT-i is not even remotely close to "advanced". I'm sure it was back in the 60s when FIAT invented what we now call variable valve timing. But that's 40+ years ago!

It wasn't advanced even when Toyota first showed a lengthy 9 years ago!

In 00 it was advanced compared to what rivals were offering, fair enough BMW have some nice engines, but these aren't and weren't standard across the range. going on bhp figures (which admittedly doesn't give a complete picture) the engines were ahead of pretty much everything the competition was doing. these are a few examples:
Model bhp
00 Toyota Yaris 1.0 66
00 VW Polo 1.0 45
00 Fiat Punto 1.1 55
00 Fiat Seicento 0.9 39
00 Peugeot 106 1.1 60

00 Toyota Corolla 1.4 97
00 Rover 25 105
00 Volkswagen Golf 74
00 Ford Focus 74
00 Renault Megane 95
00 Opel Astra 82

Toyota Avensis 1.6 108
Ford Mondeo 1.6 90
BMW 316i 101
Audi A4 1.6 101
VW Passat 1.6 101

And now Toyota are only getting around to doing it on both the intake and exhaust valve, something BMW did 10 years ago with Double VANOS, however that pales compared to Honda, who did it way back in the 80s with DOHC VTEC(who also had variable lift thrown in for good measure).

VVTL-i was brought to the market for the Corolla and Celica T-Sport.

Surely Toyota are going to introduce a diesel in between the 1.4 and 2.0, I mean that is really a huge gap or is it just me that thinks so?

Isuzu and Toyota were to build a 1.8 D-4D to bridge that gap, I think it's still a long way off though. Wonder if they can resist fitting the 1.6 PSA unit that's so common these days, or will the reminders of the PSA 1.9 engine fitted to the old Corolla be enough to make them forget it?!



To those who say a 2.0 D-4D Corolla wouldn't be viable, I'd use the Passat and Jetta of an example where people who can't strech to a Passat will go for the smaller Jetta yet get the same 1.9 TDI engine. Toyota will probably be pushing the next model Avensis upmarket and beyond the reach of its traditional custimers - a Corolla 2.0 D-4D would fill the gap nicely.