Most Disimproved Player?

mormank

i think paolo ferreira has to get a mention here.

also the like of robbie savage.

Jazzy

wat ever happend to poor andrei schevchenko ? and even tho i hate chelski i was really excited to see him play in the PL when he came

Xavi6

Gridlock wrote: »

McShane was dreadful!

Apart from his debut for Ireland has he ever been good? I wouldn't say he's disimproved, he's just continued to be shite.

mormank wrote: »

i think paolo ferreira has to get a mention here.

Again, was he ever good to begin with? Remember, this is the guy who was hauled off at half time for Portugal in their first game of the last European Championships and didn't play again until injuries let him into the final. IMO he's never been good.

mormank

Xavi6 wrote: »

Apart from his debut for Ireland has he ever been good? I wouldn't say he's disimproved, he's just continued to be shite.



Again, was he ever good to begin with? Remember, this is the guy who was hauled off at half time for Portugal in their first game of the last European Championships and didn't play again until injuries let him into the final. IMO he's never been good.

well he was good enough to be bought for c20 million but chelsea in the first place and, like boswinga, really excelled at porto

MrPillowTalk

chdpoker wrote: »

Claude Makelele

I thought he playedwell when I watched him.

Unearthly

Xavi6 wrote: »

.



Again, was he ever good to begin with? Remember, this is the guy who was hauled off at half time for Portugal in their first game of the last European Championships and didn't play again until injuries let him into the final. IMO he's never been good.

Bit harsh imo

Was part of Chelseas rock solid defence for 2 years when they won the premiership.

He went downhill in his 3rd season though

mormank

also kevin nolan would another contender imo

LuckyLloyd

I think Joey Barton is a good shout. McShane hasn't disimproved so much as the level he is pitted against week in and week out is a huge improvement over what he faced last season.

But Barton looked class when he was at City and has done little or nothing at Newcastle this year. Moving to Newcastle = death knell for careers imo.

mormank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think Joey Barton is a good shout. McShane hasn't disimproved so much as the level he is pitted against week in and week out is a huge improvement over what he faced last season.

But Barton looked class when he was at City and has done little or nothing at Newcastle this year. Moving to Newcastle = death knell for careers imo.

well do you think this is the big fish small pond scenarion. now im not sayin newcastle is a massive pond but it is perceived that way compared to what man city was when barton was there.

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

well do you think this is the big fish small pond scenarion. now im not sayin newcastle is a massive pond but it is perceived that way compared to what man city was when barton was there.

Ah now come on. There is no way Newcastle this year is a bigger club than City were last year. He made a sideways step, a step down even.

mormank

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah now come on. There is no way Newcastle this year is a bigger club than City were last year. He made a sideways step, a step down even.

i realise that but this concept of a big club. newcastle are a 'big' club. the same as tottenham. year in year out no matter how the perform or where they finish in the league they are favoured over perceived smaller teams.

a good example of this would be next season's odds for teams outside of this year's top 4 to break into the top 4. tottenham are favourites at 7/1. portsmouth are 20/1 with blackburn being 28/1.

this shows that how 'big' a club is perceived doesnt have much to do with one years performance. and with this in mind i think that newcastle are the biggest' club outside the top 4. man city are nowhere near that.

newcastle and tottenham are where the players who are not good enough to move to a top 4 side go. these teams are for the more ambitious poor players so to speak

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

i realise that but this concept of a big club. newcastle are a 'big' club. the same as tottenham. year in year out no matter how the perform or where they finish in the league they are favoured over perceived smaller teams.

I would class City as being just as big a club as both of those.

mormank wrote: »

a good example of this would be next season's odds for teams outside of this year's top 4 to break into the top 4. tottenham are favourites at 7/1. portsmouth are 20/1 with blackburn being 28/1.

this shows that how 'big' a club is perceived doesnt have much to do with one years performance. and with this in mind i think that newcastle are the biggest' club outside the top 4. man city are nowhere near that.

City were touted as one of the clubs to be able to break into the top 4 until all this recent crap about sacking Sven, unrest amongst players etc came out. Our odds have gone way out purely because of this. Whe it all setlles down I expect them to shorten again.

In terms of fan support I don't see how City would have any less than any of the afore mentioned clubs.

mormank wrote: »

newcastle and tottenham are where the players who are not good enough to move to a top 4 side go. these teams are for the more ambitious poor players so to speak

Or they are clubs who don't really think outside the box when it comes to buying players.

Newcastle signed Alan Smith, Spurs signed Darren Bent, we signed Elano. I know who I would consider the 'bigger' player.

IrishMike

Xavi6 wrote: »

Newcastle signed Alan Smith, Spurs signed Darren Bent, we signed Elano. I know who I would consider the 'bigger' player.

Darren bent?
Seriously i had never heard of Elano and Alan Smith is a donkey.
So for me at the time Darren Bent was by far the "bigger" player even though
he just warms the bench now
Elano had a good first half of the season but that fact alone does not really
make him a big signing to be fair.

Xavi6

IrishMike wrote: »

Darren bent?
Seriously i had never heard of Elano and Alan Smith is a donkey.
So for me at the time Darren Bent was by far the "bigger" player even though
he just warms the bench now
Elano had a good first half of the season but that fact alone does not really
make him a big signing to be fair.

You must not watch Brazil play so.

Darren Bent only went for the fee he did because he played in the Premiership. Do you think anyone outside the league would have spent that much money on him? Of course not because it would have been "Darren who?"

Elano on the other hand is an established member of the Brazilian national side who cost less than half what Bent did. It's just a typical case of English players costing a ridiculous amount. Doesn't make him a bigger player though.

mormank

ok but in the last ten years which of these 3 clubs spent time in the 3rd tier of football. one season does not make a big club.

bent, elano blah, ye also signed benjani, shockin panic buy in january imo

mormank

ok i think the champions league is the worst thing to hit english football since the european ban of the late 80's. it has created a situation where it is impossible for the teams outside the top 4 to prosper...i think the like of man city tottenham etc are kidding themselves. who cares about the uefa?? and outside that who cares if you finish 8th or 11th or whatever.

back to old days of one qualifier to champs league is impossible but would make things better for all these second tier premiership clubs

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

ok but in the last ten years which of these 3 clubs spent time in the 3rd tier of football. one season does not make a big club.

bent, elano blah, ye also signed benjani, shockin panic buy in january imo

Hmmm 4th top scorer in the Premiership this year with 15 goals. We needed a striker at the time with Bianchi going off to Italy, he was available and in form.

Scored the same amount as Robbie Keane who people have done nothing but praise this year. Also the same amount as Yakubu and Berbatov.

I'll admit he's not the greatest player ever but he's hardly a Premiership dud.

IrishMike

Xavi6 wrote: »

You must not watch Brazil play so.

Darren Bent only went for the fee he did because he played in the Premiership. Do you think anyone outside the league would have spent that much money on him? Of course not because it would have been "Darren who?"

Elano on the other hand is an established member of the Brazilian national side who cost less than half what Bent did. It's just a typical case of English players costing a ridiculous amount. Doesn't make him a bigger player though.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hmmm 4th top scorer in the Premiership this year with 15 goals. We needed a striker at the time with Bianchi going off to Italy, he was available and in form.

Scored the same amount as Robbie Keane who people have done nothing but praise this year. Also the same amount as Yakubu and Berbatov.

I'll admit he's not the greatest player ever but he's hardly a Premiership dud.

True i have not see Elano play for Brazil but he was hardly a superstar to be far.
As for Benjani cant see how he can be critisied.
15 goals always looked decent whenever i saw him.
Not world class by any means but a decent striker of which there are not too many in the premiership.

5ForKeeps

Bit harsh on Dirk Kuyt, he has got into double figures for the season after last year where he scored 13 goals. The fact he had too overcome the tragic death of his father last summer has to been taken into consideration in terms of his mental state over the course of the season. As Kuyt mention before, his father was a huge influence on his career and found it hard as he is not around anymore to guide and give advice etc...

The player i feel who has regressed this season is Andy Johnson of Everton. Last season he was on fire for Everton, albeit he got a few penalties to bump his goal tally, i feel the introduction of Yakubu stalled his progress which in turn effected his performances on the pitch...

IrishMike

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Bit harsh on Dirk Kuyt, he has got into double figures for the season after last year where he scored 13 goals. The fact he had too overcome the tragic death of his father last summer has to been taken into consideration in terms of his mental state over the course of the season. As Kuyt mention before, his father was a huge influence on his career and found it hard as he is not around anymore to guide and give advice etc...

The player i feel who has regressed this season is Andy Johnson of Everton. Last season he was on fire for Everton, albeit he got a few penalties to bump his goal tally, i feel the introduction of Yakubu stalled his progress which in turn effected his performances on the pitch...

After having a good think about it i have to say 3 spurs players for me
Darren Bent
Paul Robinson
Michael Dawson

mormank

ya well we will just wait and see how benjani does next year. you cannot rate a player on goals alone, what about marcus stewart and kevin phillips. two of the most prolific strikers the premiership has ever seen!! not for long tho. and far from world class players.

my brother is an arsenal fan ad he would have me believe it was gilberto who regressed most this year

mormank

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hmmm 4th top scorer in the Premiership this year with 15 goals. We needed a striker at the time with Bianchi going off to Italy, he was available and in form.

Scored the same amount as Robbie Keane who people have done nothing but praise this year. Also the same amount as Yakubu and Berbatov.

I'll admit he's not the greatest player ever but he's hardly a Premiership dud.

if he was that good hary would never have let him go. and while goals to games ratio is good. look at it more closely and the cracks will appear. he scored two hat tricks. the amount of games where he did nothing, contributed nothing far out way the goals he got.

defoe is far superior imo. so is keane, he is class. keane for the pool!!!

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

ya well we will just wait and see how benjani does next year. you cannot rate a player on goals alone, what about marcus stewart and kevin phillips. two of the most prolific strikers the premiership has ever seen!! not for long tho. and far from world class players.

Exactly. Which is why Benjani is a better player than he is given credit for. The amount of work that guy does up front on his own is unreal. In fact, if you analyse his all round game as well as taking into account his goals then he in fact becomes a better player.

mormank wrote: »

if he was that good hary would never have let him go. and while goals to games ratio is good. look at it more closely and the cracks will appear. he scored two hat tricks. the amount of games where he did nothing, contributed nothing far out way the goals he got.

Can I ask how many full City games you watched since Benjani signed?

mormank wrote: »

my brother is an arsenal fan ad he would have me believe it was gilberto who regressed most this year

I agree with you there.

Iago

ManU Van der Sar
Chelsea Lampard
Arsenal Eboue
Liverpool Riise
Everton Johnson
Villa Carson
Blackburn Pedersen
Portsmouth Mendes
Man Citeh Dunne
West Ham all of them
Spurs Robinson
Newcastle Barton
Middlesborough Rochemback (sp)
Wigan Siberski (although how good was he originally?)
Sunderland McShane
Bolton Nolan
Fulham Litmenan
Reading Lita
Birmingham Quedroe
Derby Carroll (although I'm not sure how good he was to start with!)

mormank

four. i have watched four.

ok you are the cuty an. if you can put your hand on your heart and tell me that you think benjani is not the sort of player that sven (or whoever) will try to replace at the first possible opportunity then ill submit....

but you have to be of the same opinion yourself..

personally i can name a handful of available strikers that i think both you and sven would far prefer to be leading the line atm

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

four. i have watched four.

I've seen every single one bar the game at the weekend as there was no stream available and Benjani is one of the few players to have given 100% all through the second half of the season.

mormank wrote: »

ok you are the cuty an. if you can put your hand on your heart and tell me that you think benjani is not the sort of player that sven (or whoever) will try to replace at the first possible opportunity then ill submit....

No he's not the player Sven will be looking to replace. Samaras, Mpenza and Bianchi will all be out the door before Benjani. Next year we will have four strikers I think - Benjani, Bojinov, Sturridge and A N Other.

mormank wrote: »

personally i can name a handful of available strikers that i think both you and sven would far prefer to be leading the line atm

That are actually available? I presume you mean the likes of Kevin Doyle?

We'll sign maybe one striker this summer so Benjani will still be a very active member of the squad.

IrishMike

Iago wrote: »

Man Citeh Dunne

Would agree with the rest but Dunne had a great season.
How on earth is he Man Citys most disimproved player?

mormank

gives 100%. so what. kuyt gives 100% but i would still sell gerrards left leg just to get rid of him forever. harsh but enough is enough.

doyle is one maybe. crouch is another. zigic. david villa. pazzini of fiorentina. saha even would be far better. anelka im hearin on sky as i write this may me gettable for ye.

the argument isnt whether or not ye have players worse than benji. its just whether or not he is really the striker ye aspire to have leading the lne. i think not.

rosboy

Mad_Max wrote: »

Forgive me if i've missed the jisst of this point but....

You say he's been injured but couldn't play and yet he's only missed 10 and only played 1 less than masch who seems to have played a lot of games.

Again i might have misread it, just seemed a contradiction of sorts.

Anyway for me the most disimproved would be Terry actually. Hasn't looked AS solid as before and the goals have dried up.

Maybe I got my point a little muddled when explaining it. On the first page of this thread , Killme00 says:

Killme00 wrote: »

Steve Finnan - gone from 1st choice to not even in the squad at Liverpool

The point I was trying to make in my reply is that he hasn't gone "to not even in the squad at Liverpool". He's played almost as many games as one of our best players, and therefore its inaccurate IMO to say that he's "not even in the squad"

5ForKeeps

Finn has a bad time with injuries this season not too mention he had a court case against his neighbour to go through as well...His mental state wasn't right on occasions which is why sometimes he wasn't even in the squad...

Killme00

rosboy wrote: »

Maybe I got my point a little muddled when explaining it. On the first page of this thread , Killme00 says:



The point I was trying to make in my reply is that he hasn't gone "to not even in the squad at Liverpool". He's played almost as many games as one of our best players, and therefore its inaccurate IMO to say that he's "not even in the squad"

So why are Liverpool getting rid of him?

Chong

Jugs82 wrote: »

Riise but he has been on the slide for a while

Van Persie has been terrible IMO

Good bloody reason for it, the lad has been injured most of the season.

Jugs82

Riise but he has been on the slide for a while
Van Persie has been terrible IMO

Good bloody reason for it, the lad has been injured most of the season.

Still at the beginning of the season and since he has been back in the fray - he has been terrible. Fair enough regarding the injuries but id reckon Arsenal fans are expecting a damn lot more from him next season

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Finn has a bad time with injuries this season not too mention he had a court case against his neighbour to go through as well...His mental state wasn't right on occasions which is why sometimes he wasn't even in the squad...

What court case with his neighbour? Never heard about that.

I second Darren Bent, forgot him.

5ForKeeps

Boggles wrote: »

What court case with his neighbour? Never heard about that.

He wanted to build in his neighbour's pensioner's garden. A legal battle he lost.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/27764/Finnan-misses-home-win/

BazBox

Boggles wrote: »

What court case with his neighbour? Never heard about that.

I second Darren Bent, forgot him.

kind easy to forget about Bent though:D

I didnt know Finnan had a court case either, I was just informed in work by a Liverpool fan it has been ongoing for most of the season!!

IrishMike

5ForKeeps wrote: »

He wanted to build in his neighbour's pensioner's garden. A legal battle he lost.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/27764/Finnan-misses-home-win/

Bit of an easy excuse in fairness.
He didnt get to build the house he wanted big deal.
Not a valid excuse in my book

5ForKeeps

BazBox wrote: »

I didnt know Finnan had a court case either, I was just informed in work by a Liverpool fan it has been ongoing for most of the season!!

Ye it was me Baz lol

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

He wanted to build in his neighbour's pensioner's garden. A legal battle he lost.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/27764/Finnan-misses-home-win/

Ahh for fúck sake, he was hardly facing jail time was he? I imagine it might have knocked a bit out of the pensioner.

If that affected his performances he should not be a PROFESSIONAL Footballer.

5ForKeeps

Boggles wrote: »

Ahh for fúck sake, he was hardly facing jail time was he? I imagine it might have knocked a bit out of the pensioner.

If that affected his performances he should not be a PROFESSIONAL Footballer.

Counter the fact it was his second court battle in less than 3 years, the other a serious offence where he caused a death to a pedestrian. This would also play upon his mind like any normal person he is a human being after all.

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Counter the fact it was his second court battle in less than 3 years, the other a serious offence where he caused a death to a pedestrian.

Yeah but 3 years ago he was playing well.

5ForKeeps

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah but 3 years ago he was playing well.

He was playing well yes, but the last 18 months he hasn't been when this court case started. Like any death in life it can take time for it to hit someone. That case only ended at end of 2006 and the beginning of 2007, then this one just started February of 2007. The strain on him surely has had an effect.

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

He was playing well yes, but the the 18 months he hasn't been. Like any death in life it can take time for it to hit someone.

Sorry I'm not having that mate, you acredited his dip to a court case involving a land dispute a few posts back. Now your saying it is post traumatic stress 3 and a half years on. So unless your a shrink and have reviewed his file I'm not buying it.

More plausable maybe?

Finnan picks up some form of injury every 3 months?

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/players/210/steve_finnan_injury.html

5ForKeeps

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry I'm not having that mate, you acredited his dip to a court case involving a land dispute a few posts back. Now your saying it is post traumatic stress 3 and a half years on. So unless your a shrink and have reviewed his file I'm not buying it.

More plausable maybe?

Finnan picks up some form of injury every 3 months?

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/players/210/steve_finnan_injury.html

I don't know the true cause of what has happened to his form, injuries apart, even Arsene Wenger has said the most important part of football is the mentality of the player, even Rafa Benitez and Fergie are akin to this. Did i mention post traumatic stress? All i wanted to do was come up with some reasons, it's a discussion forum. I don't have anything or put forward anything for you to buy Boggles but your reputation precedes you, i respect your comments and take them on board.....ah thank you!!!

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

All i wanted to do was come up with some reasons, it's a discussion forum.

I have discussed the point with you sensibly.

5ForKeeps wrote: »

I don't have anything or put forward anything for you to buy Boggles but your reputation precedes you,

What do you mean by that?

5ForKeeps

Boggles wrote: »

I have discussed the point with you sensibly.



What do you mean by that?

I've been reading all the topics over the last number of weeks and months and you seem to have rep for annoying some of your fellow Utd supporters and other clubs supporters thats all...nothing personal

Boggles

5ForKeeps wrote: »

I've been reading all the topics over the last number of weeks and months and you seem to have rep for annoying some of your fellow Utd supporters and other clubs supporters thats all...nothing personal

Haha, that is the nature of the football forum I am afraid, alot of people need thicker skins.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

Haha, that is the nature of the football forum I am afraid, alot of people need thicker skins.

Not really, its the fact that you are so adept at trolling and annoying people
Harsh statement but fair.

Nalz

if the past 6 weeks is anything to go by, Michael Carrick. who is now even more so a first team player for Man United. Had an awful April/May imo

evil_seed

Alan Smith