Cowen to kick out any FF TD that votes No to Lisbon.

dlofnep

Brian Cowen steps onto the Taoiseach podium and says it loud and clear, he does not believe in free-thinking or in democracy. It's either lose your job and be afforded the right to decide for yourself if Lisbon is good or bad for Ireland, or be forced into a vote and keep your paycheck.

So, from being told how disastrous voting No to Lisbon is to Ireland and banning TD's for free-thinking, Cowen has continued the torch of "democracy" in Ireland.

By Fionnan Sheahan, Senan Molony and Michael Brennan


Tuesday May 13 2008

TAOISEACH Brian Cowen yesterday threatened to expel any Fianna Fail TD who breaks ranks over the Lisbon Treaty.

Mr Cowen warned that he will not tolerate any dissent from within his own ranks as he began his first real working day as Taoiseach.

He threatened to remove the party whip from any minister, TD or senator who voiced support for the No campaign as the Government officially confirmed the referendum will be held on June 12.

Mr Cowen said his party had no intention of standing back and letting No campaigners "distort the treaty or demonise a union which is so important to the success of modern Ireland".

He appealed to voters to think of where their interests lie and back the EU treaty as the referendum campaign got under way in earnest.

"We are absolutely committed to the ratification of this treaty. It is fundamental to how we think, what our philosophy is," the Taoiseach said.

"And if there were to be anyone -- and I don't know of anybody, but take it hypothetically -- who had a conscientious problem, they would have to consider that outside the context of my parliamentary party."

He admitted he had not read the treaty "cover to cover", but insisted it was "not impenetrable".

He also promised there will be more information available on this vote than on any previous referendum.

He said he expected all Fianna Fail officeholders to do everything in their power to ensure the treaty is ratified.

"Every member of Government is committed to full participation in the campaign. I and other members of the Government will undertake a national tour in the campaign bus.

"It is my intention that this will be the most extensive referendum campaign undertaken by Fianna Fail in a long number of years," Mr Cowen said.

The new Taoiseach's combative stance is in marked contrast to his predecessor Bertie Ahern.

Mr Ahern promoted Eamon O Cuiv to the Cabinet in 2002, despite the fact he admitted voting against the first Nice Treaty.

Loyalty and party discipline have been key themes of Mr Cowen's leadership since his appointment as Taoiseach last week.

The Taoiseach said voters were being asked to make the EU more effective and decision-making more efficient.

Kick-starting the Fianna Fail campaign, Mr Cowen said it was a good and balanced treaty that protects what works best in the EU.

As the war of words over the referendum heated up, Sinn Fein accused Fianna Fail of telling lies about Lisbon.

Sinn Fein Dublin MEP Mary Lou McDonald said the referendum debate must be based on transparency and truth as she claimed senior government ministers appeared to be unaware of key facts relating to the Lisbon Treaty

The referendum will take place on June 12 with polling between 7am and 10pm on that date, which is a Thursday.

Campaigning

Appealing to farmers to back the referendum, Mr Cowen said the country needs the goodwill of partners to ensure that our particular interests are acknowledged, are catered for and are accommodated in EU agricultural negotiations.

But Libertas chairman Declan Ganley urged farmers to resist "Yes men" pressure on Lisbon.

A Fine Gael politician campaigning for the treaty warned her own local research showed the public had yet to be convinced about the Lisbon Treaty.

Fine Gael Senator Fidelma Healy-Eames said a survey by her staff last weekend on the streets of Galway showed that around 35pc intend to vote No while 31pc plan to vote Yes, with another 34pc undecided.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-to-kick-out-ff-treaty-rebels-1373861.html

machiavellianme

Any FF TD voting no will hardly lose their job, they can only be ejected from the party. Cowen doesnt have to power to fire a democratically elected representative. Sounds like an idle threat, if several TDs vote no and he follows through, wont he will lose the Dail majority? Besides, its a referendum, arent voters entitled to anonimity?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

There's nothing democratic about politics - whatever made you think there was?

sink

Parliamentary democracy works by elected representatives with idiologically similar views banding together to form a party. If somebody does not follow the idiology of the party the leader of the party can ask them to leave. It makes sence that parties who stand for something do not allow people who don't stand for the same things in the party. They still are an elected representative and still carry the voice of the people who elected them but as either independents or they can join another party with whom they do agree.

lostexpectation

parliamentary documanetary doesn't demand a whip

dlofnep

sink wrote: »

Parliamentary democracy works by elected representatives with idiologically similar views banding together to form a party. If somebody does not follow the idiology of the party the leader of the party can ask them to leave. It makes sence that parties who stand for something do not allow people who don't stand for the same things in the party. They still are an elected representative and still carry the voice of the people who elected them but as either independents or they can join another party with whom they do agree.

So every TD who has given service to the party for X amount of time is given the boot for disagreeing with one policy? Absolutely terrible. I've seen alot more leeway with other parties during other circumstances. Cowen is forcing opinion.

guinnessdrinker

I get the feeling Cowen was trying to send the message that "I'm the leader now and therefore you will all do what you are told" to his party.

Just trying to show his party who's boss. I could never have imagined Bertie doing that though, he had a totally different leadership style. It will be interesting to see how FF adapt to Cowen's leadership style over the coming months.

oscarBravo

There's nothing unusual about this. If a FF TD voted against (say) the budget, do you think he'd still be a FF TD the next day?

It's the whip system. Like it or not, it's become an integral part of parliamentary democracy in this country (and the UK), and there's nothing peculiar to Lisbon about it.

dlofnep

I don't know, you tell me? Would they?

JohnMc1

Sounds like Cowen wants to set himself up as a dictator.

dlofnep

Let's say it's normal practice to boot out people out of the party that disagree with a single policy.. Is it standard practice to warn them via the MEDIA the consequences of voting no? Surely if it's such common practice, they would already be aware of the consequences and Cowen wouldn't have to "warn" anybody.

sink

dlofnep wrote: »

Let's say it's normal practice to boot out people out of the party that disagree with a single policy.. Is it standard practice to warn them via the MEDIA the consequences of voting no? Surely if it's such common practice, they would already be aware of the consequences and Cowen wouldn't have to "warn" anybody.

Politics is the art of conversation, more often than not mere words have more influence than actions. Cowen is simply strengthening his position and is using this threat to do so. I'm sure if he actually thought anyone in his party would vote against the treaty he wouldn't come across so harsh.

dlofnep

Why is he worried about what his own TD's will vote? Surely if this whole Lisbon Treaty (that he hasn't even read yet) is all that great, his TD's will vote yes anyways?

sink

He's not worried about how TD's will vote. The whole threat was for the benefit of the general public as a declaration of whose the boss. He is establishing how strong a leader he will be and how much he believes in a yes vote.

oscarBravo

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't know, you tell me? Would they?

Not being funny, but if you don't know, you really ought to find out before pursuing this thread much further.

LostinBlanch

What would he do if a dozen tds voted no publicly?

SFA I bet.

[All the above is extremely unlikely I know, but hypothetically speaking]

sink

LostinBlanch wrote: »

What would he do if a dozen tds voted no publicly?

SFA I bet.

[All the above is extremely unlikely I know, but hypothetically speaking]

Well he would be seriously screwed and his position as taoiseach would be in doubt.

KERPAL

Hes dead wrong, Im not so sure about this whole Europe idea, it just seems to be another step toward tax harmonisation, no?
Thats the last thing we need right now.
I think the TDs should have the right to vote No, Cowen cannot seriously do that can he?

sink

KERPAL wrote: »

Hes dead wrong, Im not so sure about this whole Europe idea, it just seems to be another step toward tax harmonisation, no?
Thats the last thing we need right now.
I think the TDs should have the right to vote No, Cowen cannot seriously do that can he?

The Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with tax harmonisation. It's just lieberats spreading bull****, unfortunately the yes side isn't doing such a good job of dispelling this myth. And it's just a power play, i'm sure he was 100% confident all FF members were voting yes before he said it.

dlofnep

Apparently he can. Oscar - example? I can't remember every occurance that's ever happened.

segadreamcast

It just happened with Ned O'Keeffe a few months ago when he voted against the Bertie motion of confidence.

dlofnep

Huge difference there NoelRock between removal of your party leader and voting against a policy.

oscarBravo

Not in practice.

dlofnep

Ah there.. There is now.