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after reading the God Delusion

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  • 14-05-2008 8:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭


    Did you become an atheist, or did it just reinforce your views on god and religion?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Don't think it did either to be honest... I was fairly secure in my sentiments regarding religion before reading it. And I took all that I read with a pinch of salt, because I didn't really expect it to be particularly balanced. In the end I don't think it made much a difference to me, but it provided some interesting enough statistics and the likes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭armour87


    Small steps up the mountain probable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭limerick_woody


    I must confess (can i say that here?), that it took about 2 chapters of of RD's book to confirm what i always suspected, but never gave any thought to. What the book really did is make me feel like a fool for not seeing what is so obvious much earlier. I havn't had a second of doubt since - there is no god, there never was and it's a shame more people can't think for themselves. I have read much more since, between Harris, Hitchens, Dennet and all there debates, and i havn't heard a single comment from a believer that makes me doubt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    I must confess (can i say that here?), that it took about 2 chapters of of RD's book to confirm what i always suspected, but never gave any thought to. What the book really did is make me feel like a fool for not seeing what is so obvious much earlier. I havn't had a second of doubt since - there is no god, there never was and it's a shame more people can't think for themselves. I have read much more since, between Harris, Hitchens, Dennet and all there debates, and i havn't heard a single comment from a believer that makes me doubt.

    I think that is what Dawkins was going for. Despite claims often made to the contrary, he wasn't writing the God Delusion to convert believers, but for people like yourself who were "closet atheists", as he calls it, who didn't believe but either hadn't though much thought to it or were unable to form proper idea to back up their beliefs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭limerick_woody


    I have since begun to wonder if it takes a certain type of mind in order for it to take the leap - clearly not everyone will. I certainly don't mean to infer by that only people of higher intelligence become atheists, bit i do think it takes an enquiring mind, not all minds are created equal. My wife is an urbane, intelligent practicing RC and is refusing to look at the evidence, i know ignorance is bliss but maybe some people just want to hold on to the safety net of religion? Just a thought.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    My wife is an urbane, intelligent practicing RC and is refusing to look at the evidence, i know ignorance is bliss but maybe some people just want to hold on to the safety net of religion? Just a thought.
    I know exactly what you mean.
    The alternative just doesn't have the perks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    I have since begun to wonder if it takes a certain type of mind in order for it to take the leap - clearly not everyone will. I certainly don't mean to infer by that only people of higher intelligence become atheists, bit i do think it takes an enquiring mind, not all minds are created equal. My wife is an urbane, intelligent practicing RC and is refusing to look at the evidence, i know ignorance is bliss but maybe some people just want to hold on to the safety net of religion? Just a thought.

    Agreed. That's pretty much the same conclusion I've come too. Some people just don't want to think about the alternative. Fair enough, I'm not going to force them to listen, but it speaks volumes about how solid their foundation really is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Wicknight wrote: »
    but for people like yourself who were "closet atheists", as he calls it, who didn't believe but either hadn't though much thought to it or were unable to form proper idea to back up their beliefs.
    That sums my experience of it up nicely.

    MrP


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 668 ✭✭✭karen3212


    As far as I can remember I only got half way through the book. I was an atheist before and it didn't change my thinking. I learned a good few facts about evolution from it though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    The thing I dont like about the book is that Richard Dawkins is so god damn
    smart and gives a pretty solid arguement, its very hard to disagree with the man.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭limerick_woody


    The thing I dont like about the book is that Richard Dawkins is so god damn
    smart and gives a pretty solid arguement, its very hard to disagree with the man.
    surely we have an atheist in waiting here...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Come with us, brother! We know the true way!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    hmm... praise the lord, I suppose?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 432 ✭✭RealEstateKing


    up non-religious, and sent to a non-religious school.

    The only time I ever set foot in a Church was at funerals and weddings. And even at 9 years old I couldnt beleive what I was hearing: Watching fully mature, college-educated adults go on for hours about their imaginary friends appalled me even then.

    I welcome the God Delusion, but it didnt really teach me anything I didnt already know.

    As Christopher Hitchens said in one of those youtube debates, when given his 5 minutes to make his point: "Well I hardly think I need 5 whole minutes to dispense with the existence of God!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    armour87 wrote: »
    Small steps up the mountain probable.

    Oooh, that was a good answer.
    I'll second that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    I read it and thought he was stating the obvious. Then I realised that just because I was an athiest I had sort of assumed anyone with an ounce of intelligence who had ever heard of evolution must think the same as me. Not so it turns out!! So it woke me up to the fact that loads of people out there reject science and embrace religion - whereas Id done the opposite since I could think for myself.
    He presents extremely well written arguments and some interesting ideas - anyone who enjoyed it should read The Portable Athiest - its a collection of various pieces over the years put to gether by Hitchens - excellent reading.


  • Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Bduffman


    I've read the god delusion & enjoyed it but am looking for other material. Which would you all recommend as the best author on this subject? Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, anyone else?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    Bduffman wrote: »
    I've read the god delusion & enjoyed it but am looking for other material. Which would you all recommend as the best author on this subject? Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, anyone else?

    They all have entirely different writing styles and talk about different stuff. Dawkins is obviously more science-prone, as is Harris. Hitchens has a hard-to-read writing style IMO, but if you are interested in history and/or politics he's good.

    Plenty of other good stuff out there. I just purchased "The Portable Atheist", introduced by Hitchens; its a collection of short atheistic pieces. Highly recommended as an introduction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    BUMP.

    Reading this book atm. Quite enjoyable. It also makes me a little angry when you think about it and how otherwise ordinary normal people buy into religion. I kinda want to go out on the street and start shaking people :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I kinda want to go out on the street and start shaking people :)

    Seriously, don't. Thats what separates us from the Scientologists.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    They were out on the street on the weekend with weird machines messuring stress or some such thing over here in Hammersmith, London.

    I was genuinely shocked again to see how many people were sitting down talking with them.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I was genuinely shocked again to see how many people were sitting down talking with them.
    You'd be surprised how many people just want to talk to someone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    I thought that's what chuggers were for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I was genuinely shocked again to see how many people were sitting down talking with them.
    A lot of people don't actually realize its a religious recruitment center.
    Others just find it downright funny.

    Typical Scientology reasoning take 1:
    "Are you afraid of the dark?"
    No.
    "You are clearly lacking in sense. There is much to be feared in the dark. Join us to find the light."

    Take 2:
    "Are you afraid of the dark?"
    Yes.
    "You have irrational fears. Join us to overcome them."


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    The book for me didnt so much convert or strengthen my beleifs, but instead articulated them better than I have been able to. It also gave me references to names and books that I otherwise wouldnt have read. Work your way through 10% of the books Dawkins references and you will be a better person for it in many ways.

    Also Dawkins was great at articulating responses to some of the theists points that up to a point we all know are rubbish, but have never been able to quite put into words why.
    I certainly don't mean to infer by that only people of higher intelligence become atheists

    Yes, alas the confounding this is that many very intelligent people, and very well read people are also very religious. It is true that the better a persons education the statistics show they are less likely to be religious. But still some of the greatest names in our history have been theists, and some of the greats (like Einstein for example) have been Deists. The reasons for religious beleif then are unlikely to be, or at least unlikely solely to be, due to intelligence.
    Some people just don't want to think about the alternative.

    This is a good point and one you should keep in mind when listening to theists debate. They are VERY good at making considering the alternative a very scarey thing. This is one of the reasons I think theism holds. They do totally dishonest things like point out some awful people who were atheists like Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc and suggest that by considering Atheism you will be going down a road these people travelled. The mere thought of that is scarey enough to anyone. Couple that with their lies that morality doesnt exist without god and the idea of having to reconsider ones morals, right down to the most basic levels, sends people running back to the pews.
    Which would you all recommend as the best author on this subject? Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, anyone else?

    Fully agree with the person who said their styles are very different. Hitchens outright attacks religions itself rather than faith. Daniel Dennett more looks at the reasons for religious beleif. Harris is the calmest writer and looks at the issue of faith more than religion. So they are all good and they dont overlap 100%. Read them all.

    If you want to start small Harris' book "Letter to a christian Nation" is readable in a couple of hours. So a good place to start. You will want to go right into his other book "End Of Faith" after it though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭markyedison


    Bduffman wrote: »
    I've read the god delusion & enjoyed it but am looking for other material. Which would you all recommend as the best author on this subject? Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, anyone else?

    Another mention for the Portable Atheist. A great one for the bedside table.:)

    Also, Julian Baggini. He's a pop philosopher (in a good way). His book is like the GD but less from an evololutionary science standpoint and more focused on clarifying what atheism is and how to defend it from nutjob theists who may view you as evil. check it out on amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheism-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0192804243/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211903341&sr=8-1

    Cheers,
    Marky


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    I'm working my way through the Selfish Gene now :D Only on page 20 or so :( I wish audiobooks were cheaper.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    They were out on the street on the weekend with weird machines messuring stress or some such thing over here in Hammersmith, London.

    I was genuinely shocked again to see how many people were sitting down talking with them.

    Most don't know its anything to do with scientology. Free stress test or personality test, and a book on dianetics is what their footsoldiers market. Only people interested in religion etc, will know exactly what it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭pclancy


    I found it not only nicely knocked home a lot of existing beliefs and opinions I had, (always good to read something by someone like him that you've shared for years) but answered a lot of factual questions related to the bible and christianity that i wasnt arsed searching around for myself because I find religion so ridiculous. His happieness in wanting to live as much as possible with the one life he does have really got across to me as well and confirmed again my own contentment with the fact that because i didnt exist for so many millions of years before i was born and concious, I have no fear for the endless billions of years that will pass after I die. Great book.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    I thought this book was rubbish. A 5 year old could have countered his juvenile arguments with ease. And no, I am not a Christian or anything of the sort.


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