Scotland's Shame

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

They're

Neil, don't do that. Its patronising and rude as ****. Throwing a wink in after it doesn't make it any less so.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Superb work from Uefa. Sounds like it'll all be a right great party!

Where next Uefa?

Baghdad? Tibet? Northern Thailand? Palestine?

****ing clowns

In fairness they were asking for it by giving the Final to moscow in the first place. If the final were on in Paris, Athens, Amsterdam, Rome etc Id be going.



This policy of giving it to Eastern Europe (Istanbul, Athens, Moscow) has to stop. Thankfully the next two are in Rome (:rolleyes::o:eek) and Madrid. And rumour has it 2011 is likely to be in Wembley. Thank god for that eh.

5ForKeeps

Tauren wrote: »

again.

Neither club have sold out their allocations - so there won't be a surplus of fans hanging around moscow.

You won't get to Russia without a Visa (time consuming) or a match ticket (reduced numbers)

Straight from the airport to segregated, police guarded 'fan zones' where no alcohol will be sold.

Escorted from 'fan zones' to the stadium by police.

Where do you see all this violent alcohol fueled fan interaction occurring?

How to do you know the allocation has been not taken up. It's like when Liverpool went to Istanbul and Athens, there will be a surplus of fans. They will get there by hook or by crook. The segregation thing with the fanzones will be difficult considering the only fanzone is at the Kremlin in Red Square. Alcohol - Heineken will be surely be able for purchase considering the sponsorship of the competition. Alcohol will be got at some stage which means anything can happen. The airport, as far as i know the flights for Manchester and London are coming into the only airport. Then you will have lads getting flights to Riga and then a train to Moscow. Then we come to the stadium itself, England fans had a hard time over there for the Russia match last October, considering this is two of the big 4 teams in England something is bound to happen. Black Market tickets etc....could cause problems both inside and outside the stadium.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Neil, don't do that. Its patronising and rude as ****. Throwing a wink in after it doesn't make it any less so.

Meh, I normally dont but given the content of his post (basically - "we're better fans than you") I make no apologies.

5ForKeeps

5ForKeeps wrote: »

How to do you know the allocation has been not taken up. It's like when Liverpool went to Istanbul and Athens, there will be a surplus of fans. They will get there by hook or by crook. The segregation thing with the fanzones will be difficult considering the only fanzone is at the Kremlin in Red Square. Alcohol - Heineken will be surely be able for purchase considering the sponsorship of the competition. Alcohol will be got at some stage which means anything can happen. The airport, as far as i know the flights for Manchester and London are coming into the only airport. Then you will have lads getting flights to Riga and then a train to Moscow. Then we come to the stadium itself, England fans had a hard time over there for the Russia match last October, considering this is two of the big 4 teams in England something is bound to happen. Black Market tickets etc....could cause problems both inside and outside the stadium.

Now thats a bit more like it. Good post.


I agree, and time will tell, my uncle was at the Ireland - Russia match a few years back and said that the locals were out in force trying to cause trouble and said he expects that to happen again seeing as they had no interest in the football.



If u go on any United fan site u will know that whilst the allocations have been selling their mere price is pricing people out of the market. So they havent sold it out yet. Chelsea have sold even less AFIK.


I got offered one, would have cost me over 2 grand and thats not including the spending money i would have needed. No thanks.

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

This policy of giving it to Eastern Europe (Istanbul, Athens, Moscow) has to stop. Thankfully the next two are in Rome (:rolleyes::o:eek) and Madrid. And rumour has it 2011 is likely to be in Wembley. Thank god for that eh.

Sure wouldnt worry, you's are due to be in it again until 2017 :)

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh, I normally dont but given the content of his post (basically - "we're better fans than you") I make no apologies.

that was not the context of his post at all.

he is saying he thinks Utd fans and Chelsea fans will travel by the thousands and that you are underestimating how many will go.

jesus neil don't be so paranoid.

PRman

Can anyone explain why is there such a difference in the behaviour of Celtic in Seville and Rangers fans in manchester? A screen breaking down is no excuse for punching a cop in the head so hard that his earpiece has to be surgically removed. Rangers FC's statement appears to blame the violence on the screen breaking down but the truth is they aren't doing enough to stamp out this sort of behaviour...

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sure wouldnt worry, you's are due to be in it again until 2017

Around the same season Liverpool mount a title challenge! :D:D Dont forget we won the European Cup in 68 at Wembley, history repeat itself?! Lets hope so!

Mr Alan wrote:

that was not the context of his post at all.

he is saying he thinks Utd fans and Chelsea fans will travel by the thousands and that you are underestimating how many will go.

jesus neil don't be so paranoid.

Well there was that one line highlighted.

As for the rest, I agree if large numbers of fans get there then there could be problems as one would expect from same country matches in a neutral venue but from what i have seen it is very very difficult and expensive just to get into Russia for next week, so thus far, the current evidence (which is obviously subject to change) suggests that it is set to go down with a lot less trouble than is being implied unless a horde of fans book last minute trips and find a quick and cheap way around the visa issue (border hopping might be an option!!!)

5ForKeeps

Mr. Alan gets my point, all English clubs fans and as we seen last night with Rangers and Celtic before travel with big crowds no matter how much the cost. The clubs are the only ones who truly know the allocation been taken up and no one has even released anything as far as i can see or hear in regards to numbers.

Neil, as for my post at the start it was to reflect my views on the crowds that follow English clubs and considering it is the biggest game for both clubs in there history, discounting Utd's two previous win's. The first all English final is massive that NO-ONE will want to miss. You ended up agreeing with me in the end so happy days!!!

Iago

5ForKeeps wrote: »

How to do you know the allocation has been not taken up.

The fact that both clubs are advertising that tickets are available on their websites even at this late stage.

5ForKeeps wrote: »

The segregation thing with the fanzones will be difficult considering the only fanzone is at the Kremlin in Red Square.

Anybody going to the match will be a team designated fanzone outside the stadium, there's one for each team as well as a central fanzone close to red square

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Alcohol - Heineken will be surely be able for purchase considering the sponsorship of the competition. Alcohol will be got at some stage which means anything can happen.

Alcohol will not be available in either of the designated zones for supporters, and once you enter that zone you can't leave it.

5ForKeeps wrote: »

The airport, as far as i know the flights for Manchester and London are coming into the only airport.

Which will have a huge police presence as a result of this, fans will be directed to seperate exits depending on whether the flight lands from London or Manchester. Then they'll be put on segregated buses to the interior fanzone.

5ForKeeps wrote: »

England fans had a hard time over there for the Russia match last October, considering this is two of the big 4 teams in England something is bound to happen. Black Market tickets etc....could cause problems both inside and outside the stadium.

There will be a very small number of people who got a visa and don't have a ticket. There won't be anyone there without a visa so the problems are greatly reduced.

As for the comments about celtic fans being better than Rangers fans, I've been to two Celtic v United games in manchester, and on both occasions there were big issues with so called celtic fans causing trouble.

5ForKeeps

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Mr. Alan gets my point, all English clubs fans and as we seen last night with Rangers and Celtic before travel with big crowds no matter how much the cost. The clubs are the only ones who truly know the allocation been taken up and no one has even released anything as far as i can see or hear in regards to numbers.

Neil, as for my post at the start it was to reflect my views on the crowds that follow English clubs and considering it is the biggest game for both clubs in there history, discounting Utd's two previous win's. The first all English final is massive that NO-ONE will want to miss. You ended up agreeing with me in the end so happy days!!!

I agree with most of what u were sayin dude, just disagreed with how u were presenting it!

This is a bigger game for Chelsea than it is United. its their first CL Final, whilst its our 3rd and the 1999 game was bigger for me cos not only were we going for the Treble, so were Bayern. However this is close being that its all English.

Its still a HUGE game for United, dont get me wrong.


Anyway back to the topic at hand, we know the allocation hasnt been sold out cos u can still buy tickets! If they said, no sorry, sold out then the allocation is sold.


the point is that there is POTENTIAL for trouble but IMO the restrictions on getting there will mean that its gonna be mostly trouble free....I hope so anyway.

Eirebear

PRman wrote: »

Can anyone explain why is there such a difference in the behaviour of Celtic in Seville and Rangers fans in manchester? A screen breaking down is no excuse for punching a cop in the head so hard that his earpiece has to be surgically removed. Rangers FC's statement appears to blame the violence on the screen breaking down but the truth is they aren't doing enough to stamp out this sort of behaviour...

What exactly could Rangers as a club do?
Going by reports there was somewhere between 150-200,000 people there.
If believed then that is lmost twice as much as Celtic fans had in Seville.

If you read the statement again
http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,5~1313024,00.html

You will see that they are not blaming a big screen for the idiots causing trouble, but stating that the police have noted it as a key event in the evening.

Mr Alan

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Mr. Alan gets my point

I do my friend, i do....

...lets hug this **** out! :pac:

Evil_Clown

Agreed about the broken giant tv not being the sole cause of this trouble
A fan was stabbed and trouble had started before
Rangers have redeemed themselves a little in my eyes by cancelling an open top bus ride due to the death of Tommy Burns
I still think they should ahve to play some of their next european games behind closed doors
As a sidenote please don't turn this thread into another Man U vs Liverpool thread with the possibility of trouble in Moscow storyline. This happens too much already in here imo

Mr. Presentable

I'm just surprised no one has blamed the police and/or stadium management for the trouble. After all, every time in the last couple of years a British side has had crowd trouble it has been the fault of "Johnny Foreigner" for not knowing what to expect and/or how to deal with it.

aidan24326

Eirebear wrote: »

Paul stop being so frickin defensive mate. You travel to Glasgow on a fairly regular basis...if you cant see the problems it has all over then your more blinkered than i first though.

You're quite right. I've heard Glasgow actually has the highest rate of crime in Western Europe, and I'm sure it isn't just Rangers fans either.

5ForKeeps

Just like to point out as Bazbox(Man U fan) would back me up here, i don't bash Man U for the fun of it if i wanted to do it i would create my own thread and name Bashing of The Manc's or something. On this thread, i wasn't making this into Man vs. Liverpool thread. I am just thinking of the consequences that can occur next week due many factors i feel that could contribute too it happening i hope it doesn't for the sake of English football as at the end of the day all of English football could be the losers here if violence did occur. Espeically with what happened with Rangers last night and the backlash that could be more serious if UEFA have anything to do about it...

BazBox

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Just like to point out as Bazbox(Man U fan) would back me up here, i don't bash Man U for the fun of it if i wanted to do it i would create my own thread and name Bashing of The Manc's or something. On this thread, i wasn't making this into Man vs. Liverpool thread. I am just thinking of the consequences that can occur next week due many factors i feel that could contribute too it happening i hope it doesn't for the sake of English football as at the end of the day all of English football could be the losers here if violence did occur. Espeically with what happened with Rangers last night...

Sorry, who are you???:D

5ForKeeps

BazBox wrote: »

Sorry, who are you???:D

lol Your only 2 or 3 feet away from me :pac:

See this link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/7402858.stm

OhNoYouDidn't

nipplenuts wrote: »

I'm just surprised no one has blamed the police and/or stadium management for the trouble. After all, every time in the last couple of years a British side has had crowd trouble it has been the fault of "Johnny Foreigner" for not knowing what to expect and/or how to deal with it.

Rangers trust are already giving out about the police being, and I kid you not, heavy handed.

Except for the 25 injured including one who had his earpiece surgically removed. Obviously.

dc69

I think if we were talking about any other club,people involved in this forum wouldnt turn out in their droves to slate the fans like they are.

The fact that the rangers fans who are sectarian sing songs directed at us Irish,make it alot harder for fans like Eirebear to defend the club,as it is taken more personally,than say if it were utd or Liverpool involved in this behavior.

TwistsAndTurns

This is Graham Spiers of the Times take on it and he has defended Ranger in the past!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article3939176.ece

At least this will be the final nail in the coffin for the move to the EPL.

justfortherecor

aidan24326 wrote: »

You're quite right. I've heard Glasgow actually has the highest rate of crime in Western Europe, and I'm sure it isn't just Rangers fans either.

I think a bit of light-hearted humour wouldnt go amiss given the current state of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-DtAXBUpI

Garth Marenghi on his trip to Glasgow...

Eirebear

eirebhoys wrote: »

This is Graham Spiers of the Times take on it and he has defended Ranger in the past!

He has?!

TwistsAndTurns

Interesting answer to the article.:D Hey, no point hammering at you all day at least you try and defend the minority of bears who want nowt to do with them who bring shame on your club. But if Murray and co and the media wont address the problems ye have no hope. R/Radio's Spewin Cameron will surely pull a different spin on it all tonight, or god help us the death of Tam Burns will deflect away from the issue.

jimmyboy

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=F965rbxetrw&eurl=http
Small minority????

Credit to Rangers though for cancelling their tour today in respect to the death of Tommy Burns.

chopperbyrne

Not even local celebrities escaped unharmed.


"Ashleeeeeeeeyyyyy, I've got blood pouring down me face, I say I've got blood pouring down me face"

Tusky

jimmyboy wrote: »

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=F965rbxetrw&eurl=http
Small minority????

Credit to Rangers though for cancelling their tour today in respect to the death of Tommy Burns.

Absolute scumbags. See the way they all starting kicking the policeman on the ground ? Makes my blood boil.

x in the city

Rangers supporters are just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

and nothing you or I can do anything about that.

on another note, im delighted zenith won, they were by far the superior team and Rangers pushed well above their weight in getting to the final, 5 goals all they got..:eek:

Everton got 23 or something and Rangers had 3 more games, just to sum it up.

anyways... moving on

MrPillowTalk

Was going to head to Manchester for the CL final, guess thats a write off now. Dont know why they wont have the fanzones for the CL its not like the Utd fans are going to start breaking up the place.

Absolutely indefencable behaviour banned for a couple of seasons hopefully.

OPENROAD

dc69 wrote: »

The English anthem,the singing of praise about a monarchy that has been responsible for invasion of lands and the butchering of millions of people from different countries all over the world is about as bad as anything currently being sung tbh.

Why are you attacking the English? Rangers are a Scotish club.

GuanYin

If you guys can't keep your focus of sectarianism and on football, I won't miss you from the forum at all.

By the way, Pride Fighter banned for abuse.

Overheal

whats really upsetting about the whole thing is they were gonna put up outdoor screens up in Manchester for the finals but now they've put a hold on that because of the riot.

I'd be upset if I lived in Manchester for sure.

GuanYin

Don't thank me right now Overheal. As I stated in my PM, I'm watching your posting like a hawk.

IF you continue to drag politics into this forum, Admins and Smods will be called in because the last thing I need right now are people trying to stir things up here.

OPENROAD

Overheal wrote: »

whats really upsetting about the whole thing is they were gonna put up outdoor screens up in Manchester for the finals but now they've put a hold on that because of the riot.

I'd be upset if I lived in Manchester for sure.

That is a real shame especially when you consider it was not the English who were involved in the riots.

Eirebear

x in the city wrote: »

Rangers supporters are just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

and nothing you or I can do anything about that.

on another note, im delighted zenith won, they were by far the superior team and Rangers pushed well above their weight in getting to the final, 5 goals all they got..:eek:

Everton got 23 or something and Rangers had 3 more games, just to sum it up.

anyways... moving on

Dear X In the City

To be fair, an 8-1 aggregate victory over Brann may have helped that.
To be fair again, we knocked out the team who knocked Everton out.

We got there on merit, and deserved to be there.

Yours.
Mr Evil Rangers Fan

eoin2nc

Why is Celtic brought into this. Celtic fans won the UEFA Fair Play award in 2003, when they lost in a UEFA Cup fianl.Will all the Celtic haters here stop talking this nonsense. This thread is about the actions of a small group of Rnagers fans, but all of a sudden people start their usual Celtic bashing

Mad_Max

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Not even local celebrities escaped unharmed.


"Ashleeeeeeeeyyyyy, I've got blood pouring down me face, I say I've got blood pouring down me face"

Is that graeme dott the snooker player in that pic?? probably not but I know he's a big Rangers fan and it looks like him.

chopperbyrne

Mad_Max wrote: »

Is that graeme dott the snooker player in that pic?? probably not but I know he's a big Rangers fan and it looks like him.

I knew he looked familiar!

Probably is him!

Dub13

I think it is dott.

Eirebear

eoin2nc wrote: »

Why is Celtic brought into this. Celtic fans won the UEFA Fair Play award in 2003, when they lost in a UEFA Cup fianl.Will all the Celtic haters here stop talking this nonsense. This thread is about the actions of a small group of Rnagers fans, but all of a sudden people start their usual Celtic bashing

Would that be the same celtic fans that left me with a slight concussion, spat on my wife and my friend with a broken pelvis last night?

There is no excusing the Rangers fans actions last night, i am embarrased by their actions today.

All people have done in this thread is point out that this is a major issue in Glaswegian society, this term "celtic bashing" is far too easily thrown about at the moment on here.

Come to think of it, even the paramedic that came to my house this morning for my mate started giving him hassle for being a Rangers fan, "your not gonna stand up and get violent on me being a rangers fan are you?!" is that acceptable from a Celtic fan towards someone who is in obvious pain?

kerash

The blame lies soley with the so called 'fans' but to say Scotland's Shame? Rangers shame maybe, but this happens in England and many other countries. Of course there are particular clubs that have reputations for violence among fans and this is unacceptable, but anyone who singles out particular clubs being worse is missing the point, violence on any scale cannot be tolerated. Clubs should be doing more imo to cut this out. Its awful went a game of soccer gets undermined by this sh*t time and time again...

Pal

eoin2nc wrote: »

This thread is about the actions of a small group of Rnagers fans

The internet videos show vast numbers of Rangers 'fans' rioting and most clearly not a small group.

Overheal

Teh News wrote:

One senior officer was hit so hard that his electronic earpiece was left embedded in his head and had to be removed by doctors.

The vast majority behaved well, he said, but added: "A small number of Rangers fans have let themselves down and they’ve let their city down.

More News wrote:

Violence flared before kick-off after a giant television screen broke down in the city centre, where thousands were partying.

Fifteen police officers were injured and 42 arrests were made as hundreds of riot police and supporters fought running battles.

Police said that those who were not charged were either bailed, cautioned or released without charge.

A Russian fan was stabbed outside the stadium but his injuries were not life-threatening.


Security camera footage showed officers coming under a hail of missiles including cans, bottles and rubbish, while one policeman was set upon by a 20-strong gang kicking and stamping.

"I saw officers chased down a street by a baying mob of around 200 people. We had to do something."

Council workers were busy Thursday cleaning up more than 100 tonnes of rubbish -- mainly empty alcohol containers -- left in the city centre.

the lunatics have taken over the asylum? (well a minority of them). And by the sounds of the Russian fan it might have been quite close to the point of lethal violence breaking out.

Rangers fans will be a while living this one down methinks.

(it might be considered a small group vs. the hundred thousand other fans in the city at the time)

eoin2nc

Pal wrote: »

The internet videos show vast numbers of Rangers 'fans' rioting and most clearly not a small group.

I agree, I was just trying to seem balanced

Dub13

On a side note,I was out at Dublin Airport this morrning about 10am and I seen a group of 10/20 rangers fans coming back from the game.I think its a good thing that they feel safe walking around in there colours as this would not have happened a few years ago.

Sizzler

"Rangers believe the trouble in Manchester city centre which marred the UEFA Cup final involved many people with no known history of following the club."

Rangers security chief Kenny Scott insisted the club would "take the appropriate action" against trouble-causers.

"The club will take the appropriate action. The difficulty is of course that many of these people will have no association with Rangers Football Club and that exacerbates our difficulties in dealing appropriately with the situation which occurred in Manchester last night."

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/05/15/SOCCER_Rangers_Trouble_Nightl.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Erin Go Brath

Eirebear wrote: »

Considering there was over 100,000 people there....yes it is a minority.




Nope, it was GMC who organised it.


I would like to personally apologise to the people of Manchester on behalf of the tens of thousands of Bears who went down there and behaved themselves.
The scum element in our support has been a bit of a topic for many of us during this campaign, as many people are fed up going to a home european game and being seated beside some sort of degenerate.
Rangers FC must do something about this.

Fair play to you Eirebear, well said. You're one of the genuine fans who wouldn't have any truck with the degenerates that ran riot in Manchester, and good to see you condemn them. Its a sad day for football when off the field incidents are centre of discussion, instead of the game itself.

Eirebear

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Fair play to you Eirebear, well said. You're one of the genuine fans who wouldn't have any truck with the degenerates that ran riot in Manchester, and good to see you condemn them. Its a sad day for football when off the field incidents are centre of discussion, instead of the game itself.

Cheers EGB.
The longer the day goes on the more sickened i am by these animals, there is no excuse for them.

Every bear i have spoken today has felt the same way, there is a real sense of disbelief about it.

I know people who watched the game in pubs, a couple of hundred yards away from the scene, in the other fanzone at Albert square and in the Velodrome where they moved fans after the TV broke down. They are all coming back with stories about what a great time they had.
Many of them didnt actually realise what happened untill this morning when they seen news bulletins. bought papers etc.

Yesterday will only be remembered for the trouble, and unfortunately for the bears who actually had a good time, it has been tainted and spoiled.

I feel sick.:(

jimmyboy

Eirebear wrote: »

Would that be the same celtic fans that left me with a slight concussion, spat on my wife and my friend with a broken pelvis last night?

Will you cop on now. There is a slight difference with 1 or 2 Celtic fans spitting on you wife and supposedly giving you a concussion(not calling u a liar) than thousands of Rangers fans kicking the bo*****s out of the Police and stabbing a Zenit supporter.